I think some way to accomodate diabled paxers would be great. maybe after they prereg a system where they contact PRD to let her know about their mobility issues and get a specail pass. I spend some time with a wonderful british lady (she's on the forums but i can't remember her name!! ) but she had issues with her feet and i felt so bad when she was standing in line in so much pain.
LewiePsMummy is British, so it's quite possible you are responding to her
How about creating a real family friendly environment instead of just creating a sort of, "Yeah, if you have to bring the munchkins along... whatever..." tone?
I'm not sure who told you that PAX is a family event, but, whoever it was lied.
- There is NO place for girls running around in boy shorts and string bikini tops at a TRULY family friendly event. It's not bright and warm out. You're not at the beach. Grow up. Is it so hard to be decent when you're surrounded by a large, diverse group?
I'm not sure if this is directed at the rest of us, or at the PAX staff. Either way, if you don't like how other people dress maybe you shouldn't look at them.
- Long lines for everything? Forget it. Lame. We've been trying to get a DnD game going at home and thought the DnD talks would be awesome. But when people are lining up for something an hour and half before it starts and that line is wrapping around the hall? Forget it. And lines for freeplay? Double lame.
I pay more for airfare than I do for PAX and the lines there are just as long. PAX is a good deal, less expensive and the lines aren't any longer.
- Where are the events and tournaments and talks for kids? I saw plenty of time and energy and SPACE devoted to twenty-something hardcore gamers with no lives but nothing for the little ones and not much for their parents, honestly. My kid got into an impromptu Mario Kart tournament but, seriously? An eight-year-old vs. grown ups? Please.
I'm not sure who told you that PAX is a family event, but, whoever it was lied.
That's your choice, and, I think it's probably the right one. It doens't sound like PAX is really for you, if you can't take the croud and the lines. I didn't even think they were that bad this year, maybe it's just me.
Here's just a sampling of our family's complaints with this year's PAX:
- From the time we got our missing pass at will call Thursday night, it started. We couldn't even give our eight-year-old his "goody bag" because of all of the blatantly sexual ads in the all the little fliers and even the program! Not cool. And this oversexed atmosphere is WHY it's difficult to get more girls, especially GROWN UP girls who understand what's really happening here, into gaming. The delusional representation of women in games is really getting old. I can't imagine ANYONE with a BRAIN who actually cares about their daughter's self-image bringing a little girl to this event. And it's not healthy for young guys either - it sets them up for disappointment and discontent and creates a rift between the sexes. I've seen it a million times. How about being more sensitive to that instead of just giving us females lip service? How about creating a real family friendly environment instead of just creating a sort of, "Yeah, if you have to bring the munchkins along... whatever..." tone?
- There is NO place for girls running around in boy shorts and string bikini tops at a TRULY family friendly event. It's not bright and warm out. You're not at the beach. Grow up. Is it so hard to be decent when you're surrounded by a large, diverse group?
- Long lines for everything? Forget it. Lame. We've been trying to get a DnD game going at home and thought the DnD talks would be awesome. But when people are lining up for something an hour and half before it starts and that line is wrapping around the hall? Forget it. And lines for freeplay? Double lame.
- Where are the events and tournaments and talks for kids? I saw plenty of time and energy and SPACE devoted to twenty-something hardcore gamers with no lives but nothing for the little ones and not much for their parents, honestly. My kid got into an impromptu Mario Kart tournament but, seriously? An eight-year-old vs. grown ups? Please.
There were other problems too - serious overcrowding, crap sound, the expo hall was DEAFENING, too many industry people (I felt violated around every corner - marketing is CREEPY), and frankly the atmosphere was pretty lousy.
This was my first year at PAX. My husband has been the past three years and took our son last year. But even he now agrees that the whole thing is LAME and definitely NOT family and female friendly. I sort of get the feeling that he feels like he put his reputation with me on the line when he tried to convince me that it would be fine after going through our welcome bags Thursday night and the whole thing still ended up being crap. Even he seemed bored despite the fact we were able to split up because lines for everything is just obnoxious.
I went to PAX with an open mind. I play a few games regularly (though as a chick who doesn't feel the need to toss her IQ out the window to justify playing a bunch of sexist crap, I have a hard time identifying as a "gamer.") and have heard how much fun PAX is. I've enjoyed the comics. (As a side note, we even included Child's Play in a short list of charities for our families to donate to instead of buying us presents when we got married.) We live in the area so getting there is easy. So we bought three day passes for the three of us and even flew my cousin up from FL and bought him a pass. I got all dolled up and even put on my ponyfalls in expectation of a good time. But ultimately, lame. We had MORE fun gaming on our DS's together when we got home. Maybe it's just because this year was so much bigger but we didn't have a good time. Our family will not be back next year. As a 25-year-old mom with more experience and wisdom than is probably healthy for my age and as someone who did not get her values from the back of an energy drink can, I give this year's PAX a D.
I'd like to see things improve. I think this event has a lot of potential to be more inclusive. I hear you guys have kids and really want to include more people in this community. I hope that's the case. Clean up your act and maybe we'll be back one of these days.
How many other families did you see there? What made you think PAX was a family event? I'm young (therefore stupid), unmarried, and I don't have kids, but even I know enough not to take kids to PAX. If you want a family event, go to the Puyallup Fair or Sakura Con. Don't go to PAX. PAX is for gamers, by gamers, and it's going to cater to gamers. "Twenty-something hardcore gamers with no lives"? Excuse me? Last time I checked I have a life. It's called a job, and since when do gamers not have a life? Is not having a hobby experiencing life? I think you, in fact, need to grow up and realize that there are many ways to experience life. Games are just one method. One last question: is it lonely up there on your high horse?
How about creating a real family friendly environment instead of just creating a sort of, "Yeah, if you have to bring the munchkins along... whatever..." tone?
I'm not sure who told you that PAX is a family event, but, whoever it was lied.
I didn't even think they were that bad this year, maybe it's just me.
I agree. Nothing about Penny Arcade says "Family Friendly". Just look at the comics. I also didn't think it was that crowded compared to the last year in Bellview.
Are there age restrictions to PAX?
Nope. But if you're under 13, please make sure your parents know where you are.
is included in the PAX FAQ, there's an obligation to make this family friendly. Period. And there were TONS of kids and families there. Parents ARE gamers too.
Are there age restrictions to PAX?
Nope. But if you're under 13, please make sure your parents know where you are.
is included in the PAX FAQ, there's an obligation to make this family friendly. Period. And there were TONS of kids and families there. Parents ARE gamers too.
Your hostility is unwarranted.
Actually, you made the first hostile comment claiming that we twenty-something hardcore gamers have no life. I am personally offended at such a comment and appalled that you would consider posting such libel. I ask again: is it lonely up there on your high horse?
Are there age restrictions to PAX?
Nope. But if you're under 13, please make sure your parents know where you are.
is included in the PAX FAQ, there's an obligation to make this family friendly. Period. And there were TONS of kids and families there. Parents ARE gamers too.
Your hostility is unwarranted.
Gabe and Tycho are of the opinion that parents should be involved enough in their children's lives to know about the events they want to go to.
PAX is not a family event. If your husband was at the last one, he should've known, but at least collectively you both know now and will choose not to come back next year (or at least not with your kids).
I have been to every PAX. I have 10 and 11 year old boys. I am offering them the choice to come to PAX 2009 when they are 11 and 12, but would not have offered that any earlier. That's my call as a parent. I want PAX to stay the same and will bring my kids when I feel they're ready. That decision point is different for every family.
Are there age restrictions to PAX?
Nope. But if you're under 13, please make sure your parents know where you are.
is included in the PAX FAQ, there's an obligation to make this family friendly. Period. And there were TONS of kids and families there. Parents ARE gamers too.
Your hostility is unwarranted.
I disagree with you there. Penny Arcade doesn't restrict by age, but they made no claims of age appropriateness. Since you're familiar with the comic, you probably should've made an educated guess. You could also have looked at prior PAX's photos on flickr if you had certain expectations that you'd feel upset about not being met.
Can we please raise all the stages a few feet? and put stages in the rooms that did not have them?
In most rooms it is very hard to see the presenters due to all the heads in the way and on the main stage with everyone standing there were many times the only way to see anything was from the camera...
(I only complain because I am 6'6" and had trouble seeing... and I do feel sorry for the people stuck behind me!)
Just to reiterate a few suggestions, 1)line management 2) better lfg options, and 3) small-sized shirts (and maybe even in colors other than black, gasp!) but also:
4) PAX-themed Reusable Water/Beverage Bottles - either for sale or as swag. It would be a nice way to reduce drink garbage and help the PAX-goers stay hydrated.
Otherwise, it was another great year at PAX! Kudos to all of the people who did a ton of work to pull this together. It's amazing how well this convention has been kept pure to the intent.
Are there age restrictions to PAX?
Nope. But if you're under 13, please make sure your parents know where you are.
is included in the PAX FAQ, there's an obligation to make this family friendly. Period. And there were TONS of kids and families there. Parents ARE gamers too.
Your hostility is unwarranted.
Actually, you made the first hostile comment claiming that we twenty-something hardcore gamers have no life. I am personally offended at such a comment and appalled that you would consider posting such libel. I ask again: is it lonely up there on your high horse?
No, it's not lonely. I'm in really good company with a LOT of other goth and punk gamers who, like my husband and myself, have grown up. Many of them ARE hardcore gamers WITHOUT kids who will be the first to admit they have no lives. But they also care enough about the sense of community to be able to look at the problems with the industry and even with events like PAX with maturity. I'm terribly sorry if I thought highly enough of folks here to think they might want to know how to improve relations within the community and include more people. I'm sorry if I thought that there were some people here - maybe all the parents I saw at PAX - who want to be involved instead of shoved out by people who have NO concept whatsoever of what the word "responsibility" really means. I'm sorry if I'd developed enough respect for Mike and Jerry to think that they might want to hear from an under-represented part of the community.
And for the record, anyone who mistakes the combination of a job and a gaming addiction for a life is in for a rude awakening. That's not hostile. That's a fact. Having a critical view of my first experience at PAX isn't hostile either.
So, have fun trying to alienate an entire faction of the gaming community. Statistically speaking, you will one day be a gamer with kids and then maybe you'll know how it feels.
Are there age restrictions to PAX?
Nope. But if you're under 13, please make sure your parents know where you are.
is included in the PAX FAQ, there's an obligation to make this family friendly. Period. And there were TONS of kids and families there. Parents ARE gamers too.
Your hostility is unwarranted.
Actually, you made the first hostile comment claiming that we twenty-something hardcore gamers have no life. I am personally offended at such a comment and appalled that you would consider posting such libel. I ask again: is it lonely up there on your high horse?
No, it's not lonely. I'm in really good company with a LOT of other goth and punk gamers who, like my husband and myself, have grown up. Many of them ARE hardcore gamers WITHOUT kids who will be the first to admit they have no lives. But they also care enough about the sense of community to be able to look at the problems with the industry and even with events like PAX with maturity. I'm terribly sorry if I thought highly enough of folks here to think they might want to know how to improve relations within the community and include more people. I'm sorry if I thought that there were some people here - maybe all the parents I saw at PAX - who want to be involved instead of shoved out by people who have NO concept whatsoever of what the word "responsibility" really means. I'm sorry if I'd developed enough respect for Mike and Jerry to think that they might want to hear from an under-represented part of the community.
And for the record, anyone who mistakes the combination of a job and a gaming addiction for a life is in for a rude awakening. That's not hostile. That's a fact. Having a critical view of my first experience at PAX isn't hostile either.
So, have fun trying to alienate an entire faction of the gaming community. Statistically speaking, you will one day be a gamer with kids and then maybe you'll know how it feels.
Why does everything need to be for kids? Can't adults have, I don't know, something? Or do we have to outlaw steak because a baby can't chew it? I mean, there are lots of gaming conventions out there; many of them are kid-friendly. PAX happens to be one that is geared more towards the teen/adult market. I don't really see anything wrong with that.
I thought I made it quite clear that if I had kids I wouldn't bring them to PAX. I know enough about the comic and the video game industry in general to know it's not a kid friendly environment. I'd continue arguing with you, but it's clear that there is no point. You have your opinion, and I respect that. It's wrong, but I respect your right to your opinion. That's what my ethics professor taught me back in college.
It still must be pretty lonely up there. Mostly because all of the gamer parents that I know are very well aware of what kind of content is present at PAX. Clearly you haven't done your research, which is a skill you'd have picked up in college.
Pre-reg PAX tees!
Also, I know exhibitors have time, space and financial limits, but I'd like to see more systems/screens at booths if for no other reason than to move lines that much faster! I almost completely avoided all the console playable games that I was so looking forward to just because I'd waste 1/4 of my day in line for 15 minutes (who knows, maybe it's worth it) of play time.
This is my main suggestion as well, 4-6 stations for SC2 or Spore at a public event is well...barely excusable. That, and I missed Wil Wheaton because he was in a small theater. He's going to draw at least 3/4 the crowd JoCo or Gabe and Tycho would draw, especially after last year's keynote.
@aponivanya
Penny Arcade is a convention hosted around a comic that is for an adult gamer audience, its vulgar and the convention is not intended for kids. If you read the comic or read the website, you would know this. Even 2004 the first PAX was not a "family friendly" event. Its not a chucky cheese. This is pretty well known. That said the content there is nothing worse then what you find at your public high school/locker room. You sound like those parents who complain because they bought their kid an M-rated game that it isn't family friendly. PAX is not intended for children. Bring your kids at your own risk. Its definitely female friendly, they had panels for female gamers and my fiance had a blast. There was a surprising number of females there this year. That said, I'd never think to bring my kids to PAX, no more then I'd bring my kids to a rock concert at a bar, its not for them, never was and probably never will be.
I am a hardcore gamer, who is engaged, finishing college, and holds a job. I have a life. Just because I don't watch TV or choose to video game over other hobbies like golf or watching football/nascar does not mean I haven't a life. Grow up out of your old notions that video games are for kids. The kids grew up and still play games. The game industry makes more money then the movie industry, that money does not come from parents buying games for their kids.
Simple matter is you made a bad choice/decision in taking your kids and not knowing the environment first. Not PAX's fault. PAX hasn't changed since your husband went, he's likely just nodding his head just to agree with you.
Why does everything need to be for kids? Can't adults have, I don't know, something? Or do we have to outlaw steak because a baby can't chew it? I mean, there are lots of gaming conventions out there; many of them are kid-friendly. PAX happens to be one that is geared more towards the teen/adult market. I don't really see anything wrong with that.
I don't think I'm the only one who didn't get that memo. I haven't found anything on the PAX informational site saying it's geared toward teens and adults. And I swear in years past when I've looked into PAX the site made mention of them wanting families to come. I don't understand why it can't be for geared for more people is all. There are plenty of female gamers who feel alienated by some of these things, too. It's fine and dandy to have a panel on how to get your girlfriend into gaming but if you try to take her to PAX and the first thing she sees is a welcome bag full of sexist adds, that's not going to go over too terribly well with a lot of girls. Chicks who game have been complaining about this forever. I mean, do you know how hard it is to find gear for my WoW hunter that isn't skimpy? That makes her look like she's ready for battle? All I'm saying is that the community is made up of more than just young guys with no families who don't care whether or not chicks get into gaming. Family friendly doesn't include *JUST* kids, either. I know a lot of dads who game who are constantly trying to do a balancing act between playing the kind of games they enjoy and finding things they can play with their wife and kids. I've sampled hundreds of games over the years and the fact is that there's a huge demographic that's being ignored. It's part of the reason that the Wii flew off the shelf like hotcakes - it was something that EVERYONE felt comfortable playing and could have a good time with.
Consistent access for disabled peeps - I had to argue hard with the WSTCC people to not have to walk all along the queue for the Q and A stuff - I couldn't have done it, and they wouldn't budge - even though LewieP was in the queue for us both on Friday, and I wasn't trying to get in ahead of where he was in the queue. Saturday, Mentock, VT and a few others (thank you!!!) kept me a place in the queue, and Lewie talked to an Enforcer, who straight away let me in. I saw quite a few people with mobility impairments at PAX, its hard in crowds when you can't walk easily or far, so maybe in future, the WSTCC people need to show some common sense, or else be told what to do. Enforcers rock!
I think some way to accomodate diabled paxers would be great. maybe after they prereg a system where they contact PRD to let her know about their mobility issues and get a specail pass. I spend some time with a wonderful british lady (she's on the forums but i can't remember her name!! ) but she had issues with her feet and i felt so bad when she was standing in line in so much pain.
If she was wearing a tiara, then, yes, that was me! I have CFS, and it affects my walking ability first, then i just get so tired I can't do anything. But, I had a brilliant time!
LewieP's Mummy on
For all the top UK Gaming Bargains, check out SavyGamer
-Finals in public: I think this should be done for every tournament. Have the semi-finals/finals on a big screen in a public place. Let people in and let them watch. This is what PAX is all about. I think this needs to be taken a step further; all finals should be done in the main theater on Sunday, all day long in series (no two at once), ending in the omegathon finals. They should be scheduled in advance, and all tournaments (including PC) should be given a slot.
The content of this convention is for adults. Like it or not, the gaming industry is a sexually charged industry and a violent industry. That's just the way it is, and the convention is a celebration of the industry. I think there should be a lot more effort and energy directed toward changing that, and to be fair, PAX did offer a "Sex and Videogames: A Comparative Study" panel, a "Sex, Violence, and Videogames: Where's it all Going?" panel, and a "Girls and Games: The Growing Role of Women in the Game Industry." Out of all the content of all the conventions I've seen, PAX offers the most progressive, forward thinking, proactive content out there.
However, and I'll reiterate my main point, the content of this convention is for adults. Criticizing a gaming convention for being too focused on sex and violence is like criticizing an ice cream convention for promoting bad dental hygiene. If you're there, you should be okay with what's going on. Furthermore, the entire idea of a convention is for adults. There are theaters to be quiet in, long ass lines to stand in, game demos to play, bad food to eat, very little sleep to be had, etc. This isn't a place for kids.
THAT BEING SAID, I do think that PAX could make it easier for parents to enjoy their con. I don't think that means changing the content, or removing any of the sex and/or violence. I think that means better accommodations, so that the parents going to the expo can enjoy it more and go more often. Someone in this thread mentioned offering daycare, and I think that's a fabulous idea. That person also mentioned IKEA, and their daycare is phenomenal. Every store has daycare, staffed by professionals, with appropriate facilities. You sign up for a time slot, leave your kids, and go shop. You enjoy the store, the kids enjoy the daycare, and at the end of the day you go home together. That's what PAX needs. If they threw in a few kiddy game displays on the expo floor or something, I wouldn't mind that either. Just make it easier for parents to enjoy the expo, because the expo is for the parents and not for the kids.
Arco on
Like this, not like the gas station.
Organizer of the Post-PAX Party. You should come!
Satellite Theater for life!
@aponivanya
Penny Arcade is a convention hosted around a comic that is for an adult gamer audience, its vulgar and the convention is not intended for kids. If you read the comic or read the website, you would know this. Even 2004 the first PAX was not a "family friendly" event. Its not a chucky cheese. This is pretty well known. That said the content there is nothing worse then what you find at your public high school/locker room. You sound like those parents who complain because they bought their kid an M-rated game that it isn't family friendly. PAX is not intended for children. Bring your kids at your own risk. Its definitely female friendly, they had panels for female gamers and my fiance had a blast. There was a surprising number of females there this year. That said, I'd never think to bring my kids to PAX, no more then I'd bring my kids to a rock concert at a bar, its not for them, never was and probably never will be.
I am a hardcore gamer, who is engaged, finishing college, and holds a job. I have a life. Just because I don't watch TV or choose to video game over other hobbies like golf or watching football/nascar does not mean I haven't a life. Grow up out of your old notions that video games are for kids. The kids grew up and still play games. The game industry makes more money then the movie industry, that money does not come from parents buying games for their kids.
Simple matter is you made a bad choice/decision in taking your kids and not knowing the environment first. Not PAX's fault. PAX hasn't changed since your husband went, he's likely just nodding his head just to agree with you.
Actually, he's working on a rather long email for Mike and Jerry regarding his concerns with PAX.
Additionally, I'd say that there's is apparently a varied opinion about what constitutes a hardcore gamer and that's not my fault.
Yes, the kids grew up and still play games. And now they have kids. That doesn't make them any less a gamer than you and it most certainly does not mean that they spend less money on games than you. Alienating them is not the solution.
I wasn't the first parent who posted here about the issues with kids at PAX and I won't be the last, I'm sure.
Yes, the kids grew up and still play games. And now they have kids. That doesn't make them any less a gamer than you and it most certainly does not mean that they spend less money on games than you. Alienating them is not the solution.
You are also not the "spokesperson" for gamer parents everywhere. There are also a lot of parents disagreeing with your views here. Please don't try to speak for everyone.
Why does everything need to be for kids? Can't adults have, I don't know, something? Or do we have to outlaw steak because a baby can't chew it? I mean, there are lots of gaming conventions out there; many of them are kid-friendly. PAX happens to be one that is geared more towards the teen/adult market. I don't really see anything wrong with that.
Agreed, even though I'm still in high school (yes, I know...) you should be able to tell that the target audience for PAX isn't really kids. It just isn't, and instead of complaining about it, you should probably find another convention to go to. Not everything needs to be for kids.
To the person that started this, I'm sure you're probably just trying to get that out there since gamers ARE moving on with life (and yes, we have lives), this stuff should be considered, but the way you said it probably just wasn't the right way.
Like some other people have said, you should have been aware of this stuff before bringing the kids, and decided from there if you still wanted to make that decision. Your husband's been there, he should have known, right? Nowhere does it say that PAX was meant to be family friendly, and the fact that there is no age limit doesn't automatically mean that it's geared towards the whole family.
I consider myself a gamer, and I'm a female high school student. I enjoyed PAX, and I had a great time. Actually look at it, and it does seem like they're trying to include other things for different audiences. Slowly, but it's getting there. And if you don't want to take my post seriously just because I'm one of THEM, or I'm still in high school, or whatever the reason, go ahead. That's your decision. It's also your decision to not return next year, and I respect that.
One final note... you mentioned that family friendly type stuff is a demographic that's being ignored, and then said it's why the Wii is so successful. I think you kinda contradicted yourself there.
Yes, the kids grew up and still play games. And now they have kids. That doesn't make them any less a gamer than you and it most certainly does not mean that they spend less money on games than you. Alienating them is not the solution.
You are also not the "spokesperson" for gamer parents everywhere. There are also a lot of parents disagreeing with your views here. Please don't try to speak for everyone.
I haven't tried to speak for everyone. If anything it seems the other way around. I've gotten a ton of hostile reaction from people here as if they speak for all gamers and all PAX attenders and somehow my pass wasn't just as valid and my opinions just as valid just because I have kids.
@aponivanya
Penny Arcade is a convention hosted around a comic that is for an adult gamer audience, its vulgar and the convention is not intended for kids. If you read the comic or read the website, you would know this. Even 2004 the first PAX was not a "family friendly" event. Its not a chucky cheese. This is pretty well known. That said the content there is nothing worse then what you find at your public high school/locker room. You sound like those parents who complain because they bought their kid an M-rated game that it isn't family friendly. PAX is not intended for children. Bring your kids at your own risk. Its definitely female friendly, they had panels for female gamers and my fiance had a blast. There was a surprising number of females there this year. That said, I'd never think to bring my kids to PAX, no more then I'd bring my kids to a rock concert at a bar, its not for them, never was and probably never will be.
I am a hardcore gamer, who is engaged, finishing college, and holds a job. I have a life. Just because I don't watch TV or choose to video game over other hobbies like golf or watching football/nascar does not mean I haven't a life. Grow up out of your old notions that video games are for kids. The kids grew up and still play games. The game industry makes more money then the movie industry, that money does not come from parents buying games for their kids.
Simple matter is you made a bad choice/decision in taking your kids and not knowing the environment first. Not PAX's fault. PAX hasn't changed since your husband went, he's likely just nodding his head just to agree with you.
Actually, he's working on a rather long email for Mike and Jerry regarding his concerns with PAX.
Additionally, I'd say that there's is apparently a varied opinion about what constitutes a hardcore gamer and that's not my fault.
Yes, the kids grew up and still play games. And now they have kids. That doesn't make them any less a gamer than you and it most certainly does not mean that they spend less money on games than you. Alienating them is not the solution.
I wasn't the first parent who posted here about the issues with kids at PAX and I won't be the last, I'm sure.
Let's put it this way. Do you think live musical performers should be forced to censor their lyrics in case there are kids who like that band?
"Yes, the kids grew up and still play games. And now they have kids. That doesn't make them any less a gamer than you and it most certainly does not mean that they spend less money on games than you. Alienating them is not the solution."
The use of a plural in this statement is you talking for all gamer parents. You may not mean it that way, but that's how it reads.
edit: regardless, I think the "Family Friendly PAX" discussion should be moved to another thread or something...suggestions have been made and now we're just having an argument which isn't really gonna do anything for Khoo.
Consistent access for disabled peeps - I had to argue hard with the WSTCC people to not have to walk all along the queue for the Q and A stuff - I couldn't have done it, and they wouldn't budge - even though LewieP was in the queue for us both on Friday, and I wasn't trying to get in ahead of where he was in the queue. Saturday, Mentock, VT and a few others (thank you!!!) kept me a place in the queue, and Lewie talked to an Enforcer, who straight away let me in. I saw quite a few people with mobility impairments at PAX, its hard in crowds when you can't walk easily or far, so maybe in future, the WSTCC people need to show some common sense, or else be told what to do. Enforcers rock!
I think some way to accomodate diabled paxers would be great. maybe after they prereg a system where they contact PRD to let her know about their mobility issues and get a specail pass. I spend some time with a wonderful british lady (she's on the forums but i can't remember her name!! ) but she had issues with her feet and i felt so bad when she was standing in line in so much pain.
If she was wearing a tiara, then, yes, that was me! I have CFS, and it affects my walking ability first, then i just get so tired I can't do anything. But, I had a brilliant time!
YES!! that was you I was the Canadian girl with Blond/pink hair
I'd love to see something planed out for people who need accommodation due to a disability.
SmallLady on
"we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
You say that the 20 something hardcore gamers have no life, simply because we are older and happen to be attending PAX.
Why, then, do you fall into a seperate category? From what I've read, you still play games, and you attended PAX of your own free will.
I hate to call you out, seeing as I'm not married nor do I have kids, but do believe I have some sense of responsibility when it comes to younger children, but I strongly believe that bringing your kids to a convention openly labeled BY THE HOSTS as "the most fucking awesome event ever" thinking it a family friendly event is downright irresponsible and idiotic.
I do not see why you are making a fuss over something such as this. You made a mistake in bringing your kids, and on top of that you did not enjoy the con. Why sit here and insult the rest of the attendees of the event who happened to enjoy themselves and the hobby they enjoy? To me, that seems almost...childish.
Please, dispell the dilusion you have that we as gamers who happen to be above the age of 13 are childish people who have nothing better to do than waste our lives away playing Halo, farming gold on an MMO, etc etc (although, yes there are people like that, but I like to believe it's not the majority).
Sincerely,
a 21 year old guy who has a job, is going to school, is in a serious relationship, spends time with his family and friends, likes to snowboard, read, write/play music, and all around enjoys a wonderful life, yet somehow playes video games.
I haven't found anything on the PAX informational site saying it's geared toward teens and adults.
That's because its assumed that you know about PAX through PENNY ARCADE, and if you know anything about Penny Arcade its that its not for kids.
And I swear in years past when I've looked into PAX the site made mention of them wanting families to come.
No, it said it is the most f'ing awesome gaming convention ever. It NEVER said family friendly.
I know a lot of dads who game who are constantly trying to do a balancing act between playing the kind of games they enjoy and finding things they can play with their wife and kids.
You have kids, you own up to the fact that you as a parent have to sacrifice things for the good of your family. Thats why I go to PAX now and not when I'm married with kids, or I leave the kids with the grandparents for a weekend.
hat makes her look like she's ready for battle? All I'm saying is that the community is made up of more than just young guys with no families who don't care whether or not chicks get into gaming.
Need I remind you that those costumes were mostly worn by chicks, who were not hired who worn them of their own free will because they admired the character it portrayed or though it was cute. You think those 'chicks' are brainless? I would assume they wear those costumes because they themselves are into gaming.
It's fine and dandy to have a panel on how to get your girlfriend into gaming but if you try to take her to PAX and the first thing she sees is a welcome bag full of sexist adds
Ever walk into a video game store? Ever looked at the box covers? Its annoying I know, but it sells, and well whats in the exhibition hall and freebies is what the video game industry cooks up, the rest of the con was free of that.
I've sampled hundreds of games over the years and the fact is that there's a huge demographic that's being ignored.
No it is not, as Tycho would say, there is another venue for that. There are other events aimed directly at children. What interests children does not interest adults. Maybe as their kids grow up they may throw a separate con for the tikes. I was a kid too, I would take my kids to other fun places.
If anything that demographic is what got all the attention up until recently. Its the adult gamer market that got ignored, the industry and media took forever and still does like yourself to accept that kids playing Nintendo grew up and still play games, lots of them. You have your events, your Wii games, your pokemon games etc. Adults never had an event until PAX because it took adults in gaming to start throwing their own LAN parties, conventions, etc geared towards what they liked to do. That's what PAX is. Go to another video game event if you want kid friendly. Kids don't need 3 day conventions, kids just need a pizza party and an arcade. I know, that is what I did when I was a kid. That's what made me the video game nut I am today.
The demographic for PAX is adults mostly and older teens. Thats who made it, thats the target audience, adults. Yes many of us are becoming parents, but we play different games around our kids then we do when they are not around. Just as we watch Band of Brothers away from the kids and watch Disney movies in their presense. Making it kid friendly means killing all that makes PAX appealing to its core audience of adult gamers. The same deal as with GameWorks across the street, its a bar and arcade. PAX is similar to that.
I consider myself a gamer, and I'm a female high school student. I enjoyed PAX, and I had a great time. Actually look at it, and it does seem like they're trying to include other things for different audiences. Slowly, but it's getting there. And if you don't want to take my post seriously just because I'm one of THEM, or I'm still in high school, or whatever the reason, go ahead. That's your decision. It's also your decision to not return next year, and I respect that.
One final note... you mentioned that family friendly type stuff is a demographic that's being ignored, and then said it's why the Wii is so successful. I think you kinda contradicted yourself there.
Also, sorry if I was late. I probably was.
I'd never write you off just because you're in high school. I was in high school once, too. But to answer your last point, I don't think it's fair to draw the line at a console - and a fabulous concept long overdue - and say that that demographic is now getting the attention it needs and deserves. The Wii is great. Sure. And the controls are super easy which is great for a lot of folks. But as much as I like it, it isn't and shouldn't be the end all and be all of more inclusive gaming.
To everyone else, if PAX is truly supposed to be an exclusive club, that's fine. But I don't think the folks I've heard from here so far are the ones that get to make that decision. And there's an obligation then to include that information in the FAQ and the informational site in general. The way it stands right now, it does not send out that "don't bring your kids here" vibe. But frankly, I don't see going that route working out long term. The community is aging and growing. I'm just lamenting the fact that I was totally thrilled about going to PAX and as it turns out it is not the place for even a Goth/Punk/gaming/heathen family and that was not at all what we were lead to believe by the PAX site, previous experience at PAX, and the opinions of others who attend PAX.
But I don't think the folks I've heard from here so far are the ones that get to make that decision.
Gabe and Tycho made that decision when they formed it. Heck, they've openly said they aren't even sure if they want their kids to know about Penny Arcade. The community is aging and growing, thats why PAX exists, but I'm not going to say PAX should change for parents, parents don't have time for conventions, they aren't the ones flying 3000 miles in droves to spend 3 days at one. Parents have commitments, kids starting school, hundreds of dollars in expenses to support a small human being. Parents will have other things, they will have the plethora of E for Everyone games and the Wii is only popular because it targets non-gamers and is adult-friendly, kids have no problems playing with a controller on Playstation.
Gabe and Tycho might do another event for kids, especially with their kids getting older, but I don't think PAX will ever change, not so long as its associated directly with Penny Arcade, a vulgar comic for adults. Maybe something separate associated with Child's Play. But PAX is for Penny-Arcade fans which are older enthusiast gamers/geeks.
I think you are just misguided, people who attended past PAX's would know, perhaps they just aren't as uptight and worried about kids.
Why do you keep bringing up this whole "goth/punk/gaming/heathen family" business? Are you now generalizing that all who believe themselves to fall into that category should feel alienated by PAX?
Also, PAX is probably as exclusive a "club" as going to an R-rated movie. I don't know if you ever read any articles about the movie "Hannibal" when it came out, but I found one where a mother was trying to sue the film company for not properly labeling the movie not for kids when she took her kids to see the movie and they witnessed a scene involving eating brains.
Gabe: My parents are coming over tonight. I don't want you to say Labia.
Tycho: I wasn't gonna... What are you talking about? I wasn't going to say... labia. Tycho brushes himself off Gabe steps off-frame
Tycho: Okay, I was going to say labia at dinner. You know, "Pass the labia," or something like that. But that's it. That's all. Okay fine, I won't. Fine. How about Hymen? Is Hymen good?
Not to belittle anyone, that's not my style, I just don't see how anyone who actually reads Penny Arcade could get the idea that PAX was meant to be a family-friendly event.
I just realized there is a video gaming convention held year round for families in most metropolitan areas. It's called "Chuck E. Cheese" and there are many similar ones as well. I used to go to them all the time when I was a kid and loved it. I suggest trying one of those venues.
Why do you keep bringing up this whole "goth/punk/gaming/heathen family" business? Are you now generalizing that all who believe themselves to fall into that category should feel alienated by PAX?
No, I was simply including it because by our very definition there are obviously families who are less open-minded than we are, especially with what they let their kids see, play, and experience. And I don't think it's fair to say I keep bring up those specific terms. :P
Ok everyone, let's take our time when we start throwing around post quotes, as I am now quoted as saying something that terrix said. wtfkthx
Besides what I said before, this was my first PAX but I was apparently lucky enough to hit all the main theatre events I wanted to (w00t). I was in line and up front for PAX Family Feud, and it was somewhat of a letdown. I thought Gabe and Tycho were going to be heading the teams (which also may have drawn more people) and pretty much the entire crowd knew proper Feud and was shouting at the host when things were done incorrectly (which was fun in its own right, but took away some of the magic of the show). The hosting was decent (though what everyone else said was true), but a lot more preparation needed to go into it from teams to questions and setup. All that to say...
I did stand/sit in the FF line for about an hour and I very much would've been glad to see screens or anything for those of us without portables (shock of shocks!), also if there could be a little more communication with the lines/crowds when things don't go as planned. We got ushered into the theatre about 15 minutes after the designated start time and just a simple "working out some sound/whatever" announcement so we know why we were still waiting would be nice.
This was my first PAX and first expo. I will agree in the slight swag disappointment. Obviously, I had nothing to go on, but I was at least expecting more tees, pens, buttons, anything BESIDES more stickers and posters (not all newly-wed gamers have a dedicated game/entertainment room that posters can riddle the wall of). I am at least grateful for my vaultboy puppet and vault dweller survival manual (the best swag I could find). I did seem to miss all the big handouts/raffles/etc by the bigger booths, perhaps I was just not in the expo hall at the right time or didn't ask around about such things enough.
More PA merch would be good (I know they had all their regular stuff, but really only the yearly PAX shirt was event specific), PAX nalgenes, backpack/slingbags, patches, hats, just more variety. It is nice to get usual PA merch at regular price sans shipping, but things you have to go to PAX to get would be nice.
I was in line and up front for PAX Family Feud, and it was somewhat of a letdown. I thought Gabe and Tycho were going to be heading the teams (which also may have drawn more people) and pretty much the entire crowd knew proper Feud and was shouting at the host when things were done incorrectly (which was fun in its own right, but took away some of the magic of the show). The hosting was decent (though what everyone else said was true), but a lot more preparation needed to go into it from teams to questions and setup.
Same here. Last year's family feud was great so I was really looking forward to this year's. I was super disappointed when it turned out to be a bunch of people I'd never heard of. I missed the Wil Wheaton panel for nothing.
Next year please mention who the players will be in the program?
So, have fun trying to alienate an entire faction of the gaming community. Statistically speaking, you will one day be a gamer with kids and then maybe you'll know how it feels.
I am a gamer with kids. Do I bring them to PAX? No. Do I feel alienated? No.
Alright guys, I think this whole thing should be taken to another thread now. You're all making good points, but I don't think it's really on the topic of this thread anymore...
I can't imagine ANYONE with a BRAIN who actually cares about their daughter's self-image bringing a little girl to this event.
- There is NO place for girls running around in boy shorts and string bikini tops at a TRULY family friendly event. It's not bright and warm out. You're not at the beach. Grow up. Is it so hard to be decent when you're surrounded by a large, diverse group?
You outright imply that some of us have no brains, and that some of us need to "grow up" as you put it, and then you claim that my hostility is unwarrented? I didn't call you any names or tell you that you were immature.
Please allow spectators for tournaments, at least the semis and finals. Eight friends come to PAX; Six friends play in the TF2 tournament; Two friends wait for text message updates and can't watch their teammates play or take pictures/video. Even if there are rules for spectators: stay quiet (aka don't cheat); teams identify their groupies and fanboys; have to watch on separate screens or from an observer view; anything would be an upgrade.
I happened in on the final rounds of the Rock Band tournament on Sunday and I thoroughly enjoyed the performance (then again, I had never seen a song Gold Star'd before either). I also got to see the end of the SSMM tourney last year and was in awe of the winner and his lightning fast Fox skillz. Not every tourney has an ending like the Omegathon, but the finalists shouldn't have to finish to the sound of their own cheering. Let spectators give them some props.
Posts
LewiePsMummy is British, so it's quite possible you are responding to her
I'm not sure who told you that PAX is a family event, but, whoever it was lied.
I'm not sure if this is directed at the rest of us, or at the PAX staff. Either way, if you don't like how other people dress maybe you shouldn't look at them.
I pay more for airfare than I do for PAX and the lines there are just as long. PAX is a good deal, less expensive and the lines aren't any longer.
I'm not sure who told you that PAX is a family event, but, whoever it was lied.
That's your choice, and, I think it's probably the right one. It doens't sound like PAX is really for you, if you can't take the croud and the lines. I didn't even think they were that bad this year, maybe it's just me.
How many other families did you see there? What made you think PAX was a family event? I'm young (therefore stupid), unmarried, and I don't have kids, but even I know enough not to take kids to PAX. If you want a family event, go to the Puyallup Fair or Sakura Con. Don't go to PAX. PAX is for gamers, by gamers, and it's going to cater to gamers. "Twenty-something hardcore gamers with no lives"? Excuse me? Last time I checked I have a life. It's called a job, and since when do gamers not have a life? Is not having a hobby experiencing life? I think you, in fact, need to grow up and realize that there are many ways to experience life. Games are just one method. One last question: is it lonely up there on your high horse?
I agree. Nothing about Penny Arcade says "Family Friendly". Just look at the comics. I also didn't think it was that crowded compared to the last year in Bellview.
Are there age restrictions to PAX?
Nope. But if you're under 13, please make sure your parents know where you are.
is included in the PAX FAQ, there's an obligation to make this family friendly. Period. And there were TONS of kids and families there. Parents ARE gamers too.
Your hostility is unwarranted.
Actually, you made the first hostile comment claiming that we twenty-something hardcore gamers have no life. I am personally offended at such a comment and appalled that you would consider posting such libel. I ask again: is it lonely up there on your high horse?
Gabe and Tycho are of the opinion that parents should be involved enough in their children's lives to know about the events they want to go to.
I have been to every PAX. I have 10 and 11 year old boys. I am offering them the choice to come to PAX 2009 when they are 11 and 12, but would not have offered that any earlier. That's my call as a parent. I want PAX to stay the same and will bring my kids when I feel they're ready. That decision point is different for every family.
I disagree with you there. Penny Arcade doesn't restrict by age, but they made no claims of age appropriateness. Since you're familiar with the comic, you probably should've made an educated guess. You could also have looked at prior PAX's photos on flickr if you had certain expectations that you'd feel upset about not being met.
In most rooms it is very hard to see the presenters due to all the heads in the way and on the main stage with everyone standing there were many times the only way to see anything was from the camera...
(I only complain because I am 6'6" and had trouble seeing... and I do feel sorry for the people stuck behind me!)
4) PAX-themed Reusable Water/Beverage Bottles - either for sale or as swag. It would be a nice way to reduce drink garbage and help the PAX-goers stay hydrated.
Otherwise, it was another great year at PAX! Kudos to all of the people who did a ton of work to pull this together. It's amazing how well this convention has been kept pure to the intent.
No, it's not lonely. I'm in really good company with a LOT of other goth and punk gamers who, like my husband and myself, have grown up. Many of them ARE hardcore gamers WITHOUT kids who will be the first to admit they have no lives. But they also care enough about the sense of community to be able to look at the problems with the industry and even with events like PAX with maturity. I'm terribly sorry if I thought highly enough of folks here to think they might want to know how to improve relations within the community and include more people. I'm sorry if I thought that there were some people here - maybe all the parents I saw at PAX - who want to be involved instead of shoved out by people who have NO concept whatsoever of what the word "responsibility" really means. I'm sorry if I'd developed enough respect for Mike and Jerry to think that they might want to hear from an under-represented part of the community.
And for the record, anyone who mistakes the combination of a job and a gaming addiction for a life is in for a rude awakening. That's not hostile. That's a fact. Having a critical view of my first experience at PAX isn't hostile either.
So, have fun trying to alienate an entire faction of the gaming community. Statistically speaking, you will one day be a gamer with kids and then maybe you'll know how it feels.
It still must be pretty lonely up there. Mostly because all of the gamer parents that I know are very well aware of what kind of content is present at PAX. Clearly you haven't done your research, which is a skill you'd have picked up in college.
This is my main suggestion as well, 4-6 stations for SC2 or Spore at a public event is well...barely excusable. That, and I missed Wil Wheaton because he was in a small theater. He's going to draw at least 3/4 the crowd JoCo or Gabe and Tycho would draw, especially after last year's keynote.
@aponivanya
Penny Arcade is a convention hosted around a comic that is for an adult gamer audience, its vulgar and the convention is not intended for kids. If you read the comic or read the website, you would know this. Even 2004 the first PAX was not a "family friendly" event. Its not a chucky cheese. This is pretty well known. That said the content there is nothing worse then what you find at your public high school/locker room. You sound like those parents who complain because they bought their kid an M-rated game that it isn't family friendly. PAX is not intended for children. Bring your kids at your own risk. Its definitely female friendly, they had panels for female gamers and my fiance had a blast. There was a surprising number of females there this year. That said, I'd never think to bring my kids to PAX, no more then I'd bring my kids to a rock concert at a bar, its not for them, never was and probably never will be.
I am a hardcore gamer, who is engaged, finishing college, and holds a job. I have a life. Just because I don't watch TV or choose to video game over other hobbies like golf or watching football/nascar does not mean I haven't a life. Grow up out of your old notions that video games are for kids. The kids grew up and still play games. The game industry makes more money then the movie industry, that money does not come from parents buying games for their kids.
Simple matter is you made a bad choice/decision in taking your kids and not knowing the environment first. Not PAX's fault. PAX hasn't changed since your husband went, he's likely just nodding his head just to agree with you.
I don't think I'm the only one who didn't get that memo. I haven't found anything on the PAX informational site saying it's geared toward teens and adults. And I swear in years past when I've looked into PAX the site made mention of them wanting families to come. I don't understand why it can't be for geared for more people is all. There are plenty of female gamers who feel alienated by some of these things, too. It's fine and dandy to have a panel on how to get your girlfriend into gaming but if you try to take her to PAX and the first thing she sees is a welcome bag full of sexist adds, that's not going to go over too terribly well with a lot of girls. Chicks who game have been complaining about this forever. I mean, do you know how hard it is to find gear for my WoW hunter that isn't skimpy? That makes her look like she's ready for battle? All I'm saying is that the community is made up of more than just young guys with no families who don't care whether or not chicks get into gaming. Family friendly doesn't include *JUST* kids, either. I know a lot of dads who game who are constantly trying to do a balancing act between playing the kind of games they enjoy and finding things they can play with their wife and kids. I've sampled hundreds of games over the years and the fact is that there's a huge demographic that's being ignored. It's part of the reason that the Wii flew off the shelf like hotcakes - it was something that EVERYONE felt comfortable playing and could have a good time with.
If she was wearing a tiara, then, yes, that was me! I have CFS, and it affects my walking ability first, then i just get so tired I can't do anything. But, I had a brilliant time!
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=6915072#post6915072
I'm particularly fond of the last idea:
-Finals in public: I think this should be done for every tournament. Have the semi-finals/finals on a big screen in a public place. Let people in and let them watch. This is what PAX is all about. I think this needs to be taken a step further; all finals should be done in the main theater on Sunday, all day long in series (no two at once), ending in the omegathon finals. They should be scheduled in advance, and all tournaments (including PC) should be given a slot.
However, and I'll reiterate my main point, the content of this convention is for adults. Criticizing a gaming convention for being too focused on sex and violence is like criticizing an ice cream convention for promoting bad dental hygiene. If you're there, you should be okay with what's going on. Furthermore, the entire idea of a convention is for adults. There are theaters to be quiet in, long ass lines to stand in, game demos to play, bad food to eat, very little sleep to be had, etc. This isn't a place for kids.
THAT BEING SAID, I do think that PAX could make it easier for parents to enjoy their con. I don't think that means changing the content, or removing any of the sex and/or violence. I think that means better accommodations, so that the parents going to the expo can enjoy it more and go more often. Someone in this thread mentioned offering daycare, and I think that's a fabulous idea. That person also mentioned IKEA, and their daycare is phenomenal. Every store has daycare, staffed by professionals, with appropriate facilities. You sign up for a time slot, leave your kids, and go shop. You enjoy the store, the kids enjoy the daycare, and at the end of the day you go home together. That's what PAX needs. If they threw in a few kiddy game displays on the expo floor or something, I wouldn't mind that either. Just make it easier for parents to enjoy the expo, because the expo is for the parents and not for the kids.
Organizer of the Post-PAX Party. You should come!
Satellite Theater for life!
You are also not the "spokesperson" for gamer parents everywhere. There are also a lot of parents disagreeing with your views here. Please don't try to speak for everyone.
Agreed, even though I'm still in high school (yes, I know...) you should be able to tell that the target audience for PAX isn't really kids. It just isn't, and instead of complaining about it, you should probably find another convention to go to. Not everything needs to be for kids.
To the person that started this, I'm sure you're probably just trying to get that out there since gamers ARE moving on with life (and yes, we have lives), this stuff should be considered, but the way you said it probably just wasn't the right way.
Like some other people have said, you should have been aware of this stuff before bringing the kids, and decided from there if you still wanted to make that decision. Your husband's been there, he should have known, right? Nowhere does it say that PAX was meant to be family friendly, and the fact that there is no age limit doesn't automatically mean that it's geared towards the whole family.
I consider myself a gamer, and I'm a female high school student. I enjoyed PAX, and I had a great time. Actually look at it, and it does seem like they're trying to include other things for different audiences. Slowly, but it's getting there. And if you don't want to take my post seriously just because I'm one of THEM, or I'm still in high school, or whatever the reason, go ahead. That's your decision. It's also your decision to not return next year, and I respect that.
One final note... you mentioned that family friendly type stuff is a demographic that's being ignored, and then said it's why the Wii is so successful. I think you kinda contradicted yourself there.
Also, sorry if I was late. I probably was.
I haven't tried to speak for everyone. If anything it seems the other way around. I've gotten a ton of hostile reaction from people here as if they speak for all gamers and all PAX attenders and somehow my pass wasn't just as valid and my opinions just as valid just because I have kids.
The use of a plural in this statement is you talking for all gamer parents. You may not mean it that way, but that's how it reads.
edit: regardless, I think the "Family Friendly PAX" discussion should be moved to another thread or something...suggestions have been made and now we're just having an argument which isn't really gonna do anything for Khoo.
YES!! that was you
I'd love to see something planed out for people who need accommodation due to a disability.
You say that the 20 something hardcore gamers have no life, simply because we are older and happen to be attending PAX.
Why, then, do you fall into a seperate category? From what I've read, you still play games, and you attended PAX of your own free will.
I hate to call you out, seeing as I'm not married nor do I have kids, but do believe I have some sense of responsibility when it comes to younger children, but I strongly believe that bringing your kids to a convention openly labeled BY THE HOSTS as "the most fucking awesome event ever" thinking it a family friendly event is downright irresponsible and idiotic.
I do not see why you are making a fuss over something such as this. You made a mistake in bringing your kids, and on top of that you did not enjoy the con. Why sit here and insult the rest of the attendees of the event who happened to enjoy themselves and the hobby they enjoy? To me, that seems almost...childish.
Please, dispell the dilusion you have that we as gamers who happen to be above the age of 13 are childish people who have nothing better to do than waste our lives away playing Halo, farming gold on an MMO, etc etc (although, yes there are people like that, but I like to believe it's not the majority).
Sincerely,
a 21 year old guy who has a job, is going to school, is in a serious relationship, spends time with his family and friends, likes to snowboard, read, write/play music, and all around enjoys a wonderful life, yet somehow playes video games.
That's because its assumed that you know about PAX through PENNY ARCADE, and if you know anything about Penny Arcade its that its not for kids.
No, it said it is the most f'ing awesome gaming convention ever. It NEVER said family friendly.
You have kids, you own up to the fact that you as a parent have to sacrifice things for the good of your family. Thats why I go to PAX now and not when I'm married with kids, or I leave the kids with the grandparents for a weekend.
Need I remind you that those costumes were mostly worn by chicks, who were not hired who worn them of their own free will because they admired the character it portrayed or though it was cute. You think those 'chicks' are brainless? I would assume they wear those costumes because they themselves are into gaming.
Ever walk into a video game store? Ever looked at the box covers? Its annoying I know, but it sells, and well whats in the exhibition hall and freebies is what the video game industry cooks up, the rest of the con was free of that.
No it is not, as Tycho would say, there is another venue for that. There are other events aimed directly at children. What interests children does not interest adults. Maybe as their kids grow up they may throw a separate con for the tikes. I was a kid too, I would take my kids to other fun places.
If anything that demographic is what got all the attention up until recently. Its the adult gamer market that got ignored, the industry and media took forever and still does like yourself to accept that kids playing Nintendo grew up and still play games, lots of them. You have your events, your Wii games, your pokemon games etc. Adults never had an event until PAX because it took adults in gaming to start throwing their own LAN parties, conventions, etc geared towards what they liked to do. That's what PAX is. Go to another video game event if you want kid friendly. Kids don't need 3 day conventions, kids just need a pizza party and an arcade. I know, that is what I did when I was a kid. That's what made me the video game nut I am today.
The demographic for PAX is adults mostly and older teens. Thats who made it, thats the target audience, adults. Yes many of us are becoming parents, but we play different games around our kids then we do when they are not around. Just as we watch Band of Brothers away from the kids and watch Disney movies in their presense. Making it kid friendly means killing all that makes PAX appealing to its core audience of adult gamers. The same deal as with GameWorks across the street, its a bar and arcade. PAX is similar to that.
I'd never write you off just because you're in high school. I was in high school once, too.
To everyone else, if PAX is truly supposed to be an exclusive club, that's fine. But I don't think the folks I've heard from here so far are the ones that get to make that decision.
Gabe and Tycho made that decision when they formed it. Heck, they've openly said they aren't even sure if they want their kids to know about Penny Arcade. The community is aging and growing, thats why PAX exists, but I'm not going to say PAX should change for parents, parents don't have time for conventions, they aren't the ones flying 3000 miles in droves to spend 3 days at one. Parents have commitments, kids starting school, hundreds of dollars in expenses to support a small human being. Parents will have other things, they will have the plethora of E for Everyone games and the Wii is only popular because it targets non-gamers and is adult-friendly, kids have no problems playing with a controller on Playstation.
Gabe and Tycho might do another event for kids, especially with their kids getting older, but I don't think PAX will ever change, not so long as its associated directly with Penny Arcade, a vulgar comic for adults. Maybe something separate associated with Child's Play. But PAX is for Penny-Arcade fans which are older enthusiast gamers/geeks.
I think you are just misguided, people who attended past PAX's would know, perhaps they just aren't as uptight and worried about kids.
Also, PAX is probably as exclusive a "club" as going to an R-rated movie. I don't know if you ever read any articles about the movie "Hannibal" when it came out, but I found one where a mother was trying to sue the film company for not properly labeling the movie not for kids when she took her kids to see the movie and they witnessed a scene involving eating brains.
Seems to ring a bell in this thread.
Not to belittle anyone, that's not my style, I just don't see how anyone who actually reads Penny Arcade could get the idea that PAX was meant to be a family-friendly event.
No, I was simply including it because by our very definition there are obviously families who are less open-minded than we are, especially with what they let their kids see, play, and experience. And I don't think it's fair to say I keep bring up those specific terms. :P
Besides what I said before, this was my first PAX but I was apparently lucky enough to hit all the main theatre events I wanted to (w00t). I was in line and up front for PAX Family Feud, and it was somewhat of a letdown. I thought Gabe and Tycho were going to be heading the teams (which also may have drawn more people) and pretty much the entire crowd knew proper Feud and was shouting at the host when things were done incorrectly (which was fun in its own right, but took away some of the magic of the show). The hosting was decent (though what everyone else said was true), but a lot more preparation needed to go into it from teams to questions and setup. All that to say...
I did stand/sit in the FF line for about an hour and I very much would've been glad to see screens or anything for those of us without portables (shock of shocks!), also if there could be a little more communication with the lines/crowds when things don't go as planned. We got ushered into the theatre about 15 minutes after the designated start time and just a simple "working out some sound/whatever" announcement so we know why we were still waiting would be nice.
This was my first PAX and first expo. I will agree in the slight swag disappointment. Obviously, I had nothing to go on, but I was at least expecting more tees, pens, buttons, anything BESIDES more stickers and posters (not all newly-wed gamers have a dedicated game/entertainment room that posters can riddle the wall of). I am at least grateful for my vaultboy puppet and vault dweller survival manual (the best swag I could find). I did seem to miss all the big handouts/raffles/etc by the bigger booths, perhaps I was just not in the expo hall at the right time or didn't ask around about such things enough.
More PA merch would be good (I know they had all their regular stuff, but really only the yearly PAX shirt was event specific), PAX nalgenes, backpack/slingbags, patches, hats, just more variety. It is nice to get usual PA merch at regular price sans shipping, but things you have to go to PAX to get would be nice.
Same here. Last year's family feud was great so I was really looking forward to this year's. I was super disappointed when it turned out to be a bunch of people I'd never heard of. I missed the Wil Wheaton panel for nothing.
Next year please mention who the players will be in the program?
I am a gamer with kids. Do I bring them to PAX? No. Do I feel alienated? No.
You outright imply that some of us have no brains, and that some of us need to "grow up" as you put it, and then you claim that my hostility is unwarrented? I didn't call you any names or tell you that you were immature.
I happened in on the final rounds of the Rock Band tournament on Sunday and I thoroughly enjoyed the performance (then again, I had never seen a song Gold Star'd before either). I also got to see the end of the SSMM tourney last year and was in awe of the winner and his lightning fast Fox skillz. Not every tourney has an ending like the Omegathon, but the finalists shouldn't have to finish to the sound of their own cheering. Let spectators give them some props.