Some of the actual Convention Center people were dicks. I wore a cute lolita outfit on Friday, and a non-Japanese school girl type outfit on Saturday, neither of which were -that- scandalous and one of them, every time I walked by said "Slut". So, I didn't say anything Friday, because I was not 100% sure that he was saying that, but on Saturday I was sure. I went and actually talked to him, but he denied it (of course), insisting that he was merely directing people where they needed to go, and that he was saying "Straight ahead and to the right". I talked to some of the other convention people, but he was still there the rest of that day, and all of the next, and if looks could kill, I would've dropped dead on sight.
For having so many amazing conventions/expos there, the people suck. Also, obviously it was really crowded, but I am not sure of any other locations to recomment.
Geek Movies playing in line-up rooms before the show really gets underway, external monitors so those who can't get in can at least watch, bigger panel rooms, crane game for swag with proceeds to Child's Play... are all good ideas and I second/third/whatever them.
1) More freeplay stages, separated by genre: For one, the lineup at the freeplay stage was pretty long at times and having more stages would be good to keep wait times shorter. Further, having them split by genre (say, a classic rock stage, a metal stage, and a general stage) would let people gather based on their individual tastes, so people who want to listen to music they like don't have to wait through 3 renditions of Coheed and Cambria while they wait to play something that isn't awful. Also, talk to Harmonix about getting the freeplay machines set up with DLC... the great selection of DLC is what separates Rock Band from GH and they should be showing that off like they did at their main booth.
2) Introduce guidelines/requirements for player throughput at the exhibit hall booths. If a booth is limiting people to 5 minutes each and has 5 demo units, that's a throughput of 60 gamers/hour. Finding some kind of incentive or guideline to encourage the exhibitors to let as many gamers as possible try their games would hopefully reduce the massive waits for some titles.
3) A bigger PC Freeplay area would be nice, and finding a way to make Console freeplay signouts a little more straightforward would be good. I only freeplayed on the consoles once all weekend, right at the start of sunday, because any other time I wanted to I was told it would be a 45 minute wait to sign something out. Meanwhile, plenty of consoles around the freeplay rooms were unoccupied.
4) Some kind of LFG system that automatically groups people by the games they want to play. No idea how it would be done, but if possible... awesome.
5) If you're going to say it's open until 3am... have it stay open until 3am. Both Friday and Saturday night I was told they were closing up around 2-2:15am. It's not the end of the world, but it's not cool either.
I really enjoyed the show, but there were moments I was less than thrilled with. Hopefully things shape up next year!
Guys, I know aponivanya, and she's really not as hostile as she's coming off here. Since I know a lot of you, and I do know her, I'm going to ask that everyone back it up a notch, because I KNOW that things have gotten escalated largely by the failure of text to communicate tone.
She's really pretty cool, honestly.
That said, I do believe there is a lesson to take away from all of this:
The PAX site needs to clearly communicate that it is NOT a "family-friendly" event, especially now that attendance is growing to the point that people are going to start coming because they saw it was this awesome con for video games, rather than just being a community for a webcomic getting together and partying. I did see a small number of children about, often with confused and disapproving grandparents tagging along behind them, obviously unaware as to what kind of event they'd agreed to bring them to.
wtf...you should've reported him to someone. That's completely ridiculous.
Eh, what can you do. I was to busy running around, collecting buttons, meeting people, and playing games. It did make my experience a tad more sour, however. You would think they'd be more tolerant, considering they have, oh, I don't know.. comicon and sakura con there too, in addition to PAX.
That said, I do believe there is a lesson to take away from all of this:
The PAX site needs to clearly communicate that it is NOT a "family-friendly" event, especially now that attendance is growing to the point that people are going to start coming because they saw it was this awesome con for video games, rather than just being a community for a webcomic getting together and partying. I did see a small number of children about, often with confused and disapproving grandparents tagging along behind them, obviously unaware as to what kind of event they'd agreed to bring them to.
Khoo, you should look into that. ;-)
Maybe so, but even just checking the site (which once had the tag line "the most f'ing awesome gaming convention ever" I saw this as the first question in the FAQ:
What is PAX?
PAX is a three-day game festival for tabletop, videogame, and PC gamers. We call it a festival because in addition to dedicated tournaments and freeplay areas we've got nerdcore concerts, panel discussions, the weekend-long Omegathon event, and an exhibitor hall filled with booths displaying the latest from top game publishers and developers. Even with all this amazing content the best part of PAX is hanging out with other people who know their shit when it comes to games.
Profanity in the FAQ...seriously, you have to have tunnel vision not to notice the hints. Kids and families are not mentioned anywhere, and anyone who knows about the con should at least know about Penny Arcade.
I just give her a refund and ask her politely not to bring her kids their again if they can't handle a T for Teens setting with M rated games.
Given the size we've grown to, terrix? Expect to see more upset parents in the future. PAX has grown beyond Penny Arcade. Also, you can't give "hints", you need to have things laid out in black and white. Khoo, being the suave businessman he is, knows this already. It's likely this specific question just hasn't come up yet.
Maybe it needs to shrink then. I see these upset parents as the same people complaining about the content in GTA when its a game called Grand Theft Auto and is M-rated. They don't need to be telling us how to run a con for older gamers. They can go somewhere else or just not bring the kids as several sensible adults with children have pointed out. Clueless parents aren't the only people I saw in PAX, I saw plenty of frat boy gamers just there for Bungie to hang out in the same Halo 3 area for hours and who were shoving their way through people. It needs to be clear its not for kids and its not like E3 and and you are there to play games, not score free swag.
Seriously, just do your homework, stop acting like your uninformed decisions is everyone else's fault and making up stuff like "family friendly" was once on the site. Good parents do research on the environments they are going to expose their kids too, it would take five minutes reading the comic, the forums, and looking at pictures to figure out what kind of things you'd find at PAX. Do you see kids in the pictures or them mentioned? No, take a hint. Lots of cussing. Yes, take a hint. Do most gaming conventions and conventions in general feature people dressing up as their favorite characters who are sometimes showing skin. Yes, take a hint. PAX has not changed this year, her husband misrepresented the con to her if he's acting like booth babes, ads and game posters with scantily clad women are something new to game cons and PAX. I remember the first Guild Wars being at 04 and having all those things.
I also like how the Gamer Dad panel and female gamer panels were totally overlooked.
terrix on
0
redhaloAlso a Professional AlcoholicRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
aponivanya: While I won't call anyone a bad parent for taking their kids to PAX, as people raise their children differently and many are successful, I will say that you are a bad parent for passing blame and teaching your children to be prejudice by indoctrinating in them that all gamers have no lives. If you think you are so righteous in your place despite describing yourself in the same terms as us then you should know better than to pigeon-hole gamers like that.
fake edit: I'm being asked not to post this under the understanding that you just aren't communicating you feelings appropriately. Whereas you have a right to complain when you feel offended, then I do as well.
I played in a pair of tournaments, and I'm kind of curious how they were set up - there was pre-registration available for the Soul Calibur 4, Guitar Hero 3 and Halo 3 tournaments, but the SC4 and Halo 3 ones wound up taking a while before the games actually started.
Was the pre-registration lists used in advance to prepare a rough draft set of tournament brackets?
Would it be possible to do a "Report and Check In By X Time" addition to the rules to prevent having to do any "last call for..." calls?
The tournaments ran smoothly and quickly when they got started, which is pretty amazing considering the sizes of the tournaments this year - and they were fun!
Maybe it needs to shrink then. I see these upset parents as the same people complaining about the content in GTA when its a game called Grand Theft Auto and is M-rated. They don't need to be telling us how to run a con for older gamers. They can go somewhere else or just not bring the kids as several sensible adults with children have pointed out. Clueless parents aren't the only people I saw in PAX, I saw plenty of frat boy gamers just there for Bungie to hang out in the same Halo 3 area for hours and who were shoving their way through people. It needs to be clear its not for kids and its not like E3 and and you are there to play games, not score free swag.
Seriously, just do your homework, stop acting like your uninformed decisions is everyone else's fault and making up stuff like "family friendly" was once on the site.
True, and I agree with you, but isn't it easier to clearly define the event up-front, rather than leave it up to research? I'm a parent, too, and I'll go out of my way to be sure I'm informed on the things my children do, but at the same time, I personally appreciate it if things are clearly laid out and save me the time. ;-)
I don't think the core request is an unreasonable one.
The core request was to change PAX to make it 'family friendly' and acting like its us brainless gamers and Gabe and Tycho's fault that it wasn't family friendly when it was never intended to be. Parents that blame others for exposing their kids to bad things when its them just slacking or having unrealistic expectations irks me.
If it was actually to make it more explicit that its not a place for kids, that is somewhat reasonable. Afterall, they have warnings on their books that they aren't comics for kids. They changed the tag line a few months ago, but 3 months ago it was explicit in the wording.
The core request was to change PAX to make it 'family friendly' and acting like its us brainless gamers and Gabe and Tycho's fault that it wasn't family friendly when it was never intended to be.
If it was actually to make it more explicit that its not a place for kids, that is somewhat reasonable. Afterall, they have warnings on their books that they aren't comics for kids.
Point Conceded. The core request came from an ambiguous statement on the PAX site, though, so the suggestion to have it clarified still stands. ;-)
Oh hey! Speaking of suggestions, there's one thing that really pissed me off about PAX this year. Next time, when we have a huge 256 player tournament for a massively popular game like Brawl, can we please not schedule it over an entire day of panels and concerts? Much less the first day?
Seriously. I know Enforcers are there to have fun too, but that was the single most important non-concert event I was looking forward to and I simply couldn't do it because I'd miss too many smaller things. Would have been great if it could be split into 3 smaller tournaments, for example.
And then the TF2 tourney ran over the concerts...but that's a separate issue. Can't schedule everything perfectly.
That and personally, lots of annoying kids running around and acting like they do on X-box Live would just get on my nerves. One such kid tried to get me to hook him up with a free water while I was chilling in the ECA lounge in one of the most obnoxious ways possible. Wanted to smack him upside the head.
Making PAX family friendly, by the standard American defintion, would ruin it, and -end- it.
A very large portion of companies would be banned from the event, along with most Penny Arcade strips, Cosplaying, and anyone who didn't dress like a Mormon. The Keynote and anything with "Gabe" and "Tycho" could not happen, because the keynote speakers always cuss at least a little and Gabe and Tycho are the writers of Penny Arcade, The House that Wangs Built.
The reason that children aren't banned outright is because many families believe their children will not be harmed by words or seeing cleavage or animated violence, so they let the parents make the call, because they assume that parents know how to raise their children and don't need two dudes they don't know making their decisions for them.
Here's just a sampling of our family's complaints with this year's PAX
This is not, nor has it ever been advertised as, a family event. Have you ever even read Penny Arcade?? If you're not comfortable with foul language and the occasional scantily-clad attendee or booth babe, then don't come. I can't believe anyone would come to PAX and not know what to expect.
capnjack on
Q: "You are in the garden. You see a rose bush. You have a fishing rod. Exits are North, South and IN."
A: "What do you want from me?!?!?"
That and personally, lots of annoying kids running around and acting like they do on X-box Live would just get on my nerves. One such kid tried to get me to hook him up with a free water while I was chilling in the ECA lounge in one of the most obnoxious ways possible. Wanted to smack him upside the head.
If anything I'm all for a 15 and up age limit.
I met this really cool 10-year-old in the Rock Band 2 line. He says he can sing Bon Jovi and Red Hot Chili Peppers really well. We had a good conversation. But then I found out he was an unaccompanied minor.
What is up with that? Not sure how this can be controlled but something should be put in place before something bad happens to some kid(s) showing up to PAX without adult supervision.
capnjack on
Q: "You are in the garden. You see a rose bush. You have a fishing rod. Exits are North, South and IN."
A: "What do you want from me?!?!?"
Please allow spectators for tournaments, at least the semis and finals.
I'm going to third this and add on something else regarding tournaments...
What happened to the pictures/videos that the hired cameraman took after the tournament? My team placed 2nd in the TF2 tourny, yet I have nothing to show for it except a Darth Tater potato head doll. And don't get me wrong, I love my Darth Tater, but the prize booth was epic fail. Oh, I also got a pair of socks.
PAX claimed to be "for the gamers," yet there was nothing congratulating the winners of tournaments or decent prizes.
Also, MOAR SUMOS! There was nowhere to sit, and you can only stand in those massively long lines without getting tired for so long.
If anyone is reading this that can find those TF2 Tournament pictures... PLEASE send them to me!!!
Please allow spectators for tournaments, at least the semis and finals.
I'm going to third this and add on something else regarding tournaments...
What happened to the pictures/videos that the hired cameraman took after the tournament? My team placed 2nd in the TF2 tourny, yet I have nothing to show for it except a Darth Tater potato head doll. And don't get me wrong, I love my Darth Tater, but the prize booth was epic fail. Oh, I also got a pair of socks.
PAX claimed to be "for the gamers," yet there was nothing congratulating the winners of tournaments or decent prizes.
They didn't announce the winners and hand out prize tickets at the tournaments? That sucks.
capnjack on
Q: "You are in the garden. You see a rose bush. You have a fishing rod. Exits are North, South and IN."
A: "What do you want from me?!?!?"
When it comes right down to it, it is a crowd of THOUSANDS of people. Beach or not, rain or shine, your bound to run into someone who has a different idea of what is appropriate than you. And there was nothing there that isn't on the cover of games, in the same stores you go to buy games for your kids.
And guys, lets not bash these girls for wearing what they did! come on! You want to talk about immature- if your not mature enough to handle a little mid drift and thigh go back to second grade. Those girls were brave and looked fantastic!
Speaking of second graders, I'm also a parent. And 'family friendly' or not, you have to be prepared for what you might run into in a crowd that size, period. PAX isn't d*sneyland. If you would like to bring your kids, (and I fully plan on doing just that eventually!) don't get mad at the convention or at the attire of other PAX goers. If PAX were to set up regulations on what women could or could not wear, I would be seriously offended.
You have your own ideas of what is appropriate to expose your kids to. Thats great!
But its not their fault. They didn't do anything wrong. Now you know, and you can use this experience to make decisions on whether or not to take your kids to PAX next year.
I took my kid (7) with me and she loved it. She's been wearing her little black swag glove every day (it was all I could do to peel it off her at bathtime - UGH!). Yesterday she had her pink godzilla plushie destroying her dollhouse while she shot at it with her Champions ping pong gun. She's still talking about how much fun she thought the Naruto game was. And she wanted me to take pictures of her with all the boothbabes - like they were Mickey Mouse. To her they were either proud, beautiful butt kicking women or tropical princesses. Her self image wasn't damaged - she was empowered by the large number of women gamers there.
My suggestions:
-It's not a convention that is intended to cater to children, and the front page isn't clear on that. The games are mainly mature, the audience can be a bit rough around the edges, and I can see how some parents might be unprepared for it.
-Also pictures of previous expos on the main page (I had to go to flickr to find any)
I took my kid (7) with me and she loved it. She's been wearing her little black swag glove every day (it was all I could do to peel it off her at bathtime - UGH!). Yesterday she had her pink godzilla plushie destroying her dollhouse while she shot at it with her Champions ping pong gun. She's still talking about how much fun she thought the Naruto game was. And she wanted me to take pictures of her with all the boothbabes - like they were Mickey Mouse. To her they were either proud, beautiful butt kicking women or tropical princesses. Her self image wasn't damaged - she was empowered by the large number of women gamers there.
My suggestions:
-It's not a convention that is intended to cater to children, and the front page isn't clear on that. The games are mainly mature, the audience can be a bit rough around the edges, and I can see how some parents might be unprepared for it.
-Also pictures of previous expos on the main page (I had to go to flickr to find any)
Thats so great! I totally agree about the self image thing. I do definitely agree that it needs to be more clear, because, clearly, some people were confused about it.
I really think it would be cool to hold an auction on the last day for Child's Play in which you sell a bunch of the signage and other items from the event. I would have loved to be able to take home one of those World Map signs. This would, without a doubt, generate thousands of dollars for Child's Play. Please consider it!
I definitely have to agree with more chars for concerts and the omegathon final round.
Seriously, if they can set up so many hordes of chairs for other large panels, why not have them available for those events?
They had the entire hall jam packed with chairs when I went to the Spore demo for example, so it's not like there isn't enough seats for everyone.
If some people want standing room then why not just go half and half?
At least it would be better than the few rows shoved all the way in the back that we got.
Especially for the concerts, which run a lot longer.
Plenty of people like to stay and enjoy the music without bouncing around.
The only reason I really complain is because I happened to be suffering from severe "pregnant lady backache disorder" this year
Seriously..... I was there for the entire concert friday night, and by the time Jonathan Coulton even got on stage I was about ready to keel over - when you're big and round and full of baby, even sitting on the rock hard floor doesn't help, it just makes your legs numb :P
I will happily volunteer to help pile chairs back up afterward, as (hopefully) plenty others would be, if we were given the option to sit on them in the first place that is...
Heck, just announce that everyone needs to start piling them up, and then don't open the main doors for a few minutes afterward.
I bet you'd get a surprising number of people to comply.
I didn't even bother with saturday's concert because I knew how unpleasant it would be (also, I wasn't interested in most of the bands that night - that helped)
I could walk through the exhibit hall all day provided I could take a break now and then, but for the concerts, it's not like I could just come back later and watch JoCo perform
Some people have a legitimate excuse to need to sit, and honestly, some people are just plain tired after all the days excitement.
Presuming we could get a decent sized group to clear the chairs after the shows, where's the harm in not making people have to stand even more?
I don't want this thread hijacked. It's supposed to be a civil discussion of things we can do next year to make PAX better, not a diatribe about the evils of gaming. Make a PAX is evil thread for that.
I'm going to field the easy one out of all this, because it's 3am, thinking hard sucks, and I didn't see it addressed otherwise.
Regarding the lack of use of the sixth floor, Gender Odyssey had reserved the sixth floor before us. Just because we're the larger of the two gatherings, unfortunately, doesn't mean we get it by default.
HOWEVER, with that in mind, I do believe that we are planning to get the sixth floor next year. Please, don't quote me on that, seeing as how I'm not PA staff and have nothing to do with the actual planning or reservation process, but I do believe that we're really, really hoping to have it available to us for next year.
Jaiden on
[15:51] <+Snickers> Dur, I R CUM
[10:24] * @BigRed-Worky cums the water
[12:32] <+prox> lawl you kickbanned me so hard my client crashed
0
LegacyStuck Somewhere In CyberspaceThe Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2008
They take most of the chairs out of the concert hall/omegathon final round because they want to be able to get as many people in there. There have usually been bigger spaces for people to sit, though. This year, the main theater seemed to be a bit smaller than the last years, which made it harder for people to get into things and made seating areas limited. I'm sure there will be a bit bigger of a main theater for next year...I hope...
Legacy on
Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
1 - We weren't ignorant about PAX. Obviously no one READ my original post. My husband is a PAX regular and he took our kid last year. Profanity is NOT an issue with us. But there were more problems than just profanity. I've heard over and over and over from dozens of people about how this year was different and the tone was different and the sort of people there was different. It's part of getting big, I'm sure. But it's something that needs to be acknowledged.
2 - To say that one should know the tone of an event centered around video games based on the tone of a comic drawn by the people who run it is just... well... stupid. Yeah, it started because of PA, but seriously? It's not a comic con. It's a game con. And last I checked games were for everyone and there were plenty of games there that were perfectly fine for our eight-year-old who isn't strictly limited to E games (because his parents actually play and know what's in individual games). But what's the damn point if you can't get in to play them?
3 - There's still a major issue with sexism in gaming and I think that the guys who run this are fully aware of that. But it's frankly not enough to just have a couple panels about it and expect that that's going to smooth everything over.
4 - I NEVER said ALL gamers have no lives. WE don't teach our kid that. We teach BALANCE. We teach social and cultural equality between the sexes as a crucial goal for civilized people. Any psychologist on the face of the earth can explain the importance of both of those.
5 - I've already conceded that it's perfectly fine by me if they decide they DON'T want tons of money from parents and families. Fine. But it needs to be CLEAR and it isn't as it stands now. But frankly if that IS how they feel about it, I don't feel bad not supporting Child's Play because there's an obvious contradiction there.
That all said, I'm done with the forums. I'm not going to try to unravel the circular, nonexistent, ephemeral, or pixie logic that is being thrown around here anymore. I came here because I wanted to post suggestions. It's up to Khoo and Mike and Jerry to take them or leave them. And after the barrage of negativity from a lot of folks here, I don't really care what the rest of you think. The fact remains that these are ACTUAL issues with PAX that do ACTUALLY need to be addressed. Nothing any of you have said has changed that.
So, argument over. I know return you to your regularly scheduled thread. [bows out]
That all said, I'm done with the forums. I'm not going to try to unravel the circular, nonexistent, ephemeral, or pixie logic that is being thrown around here anymore. I came here because I wanted to post suggestions. It's up to Khoo and Mike and Jerry to take them or leave them. And after the barrage of negativity from a lot of folks here, I don't really care what the rest of you think. The fact remains that these are ACTUAL issues with PAX that do ACTUALLY need to be addressed. Nothing any of you have said has changed that.
You say that you don't care what we have to say because of how negative we are, and yet all of your posts have an overtly hostile tone. Double standard much? Not that it matters, since you're not coming back to read this.
5 - I've already conceded that it's perfectly fine by me if they decide they DON'T want tons of money from parents and families. Fine. But it needs to be CLEAR and it isn't as it stands now. But frankly if that IS how they feel about it, I don't feel bad not supporting Child's Play because there's an obvious contradiction there.
I think this is what bothers me the most about you. I am a parent, and I have a family, and we give tons of money to PAX. Stop speaking for me, thanks. You're wrong.
The fact remains that these are ACTUAL issues with PAX that do ACTUALLY need to be addressed. Nothing any of you have said has changed that.
No, the fact is that YOU take issue with them. They are not, objectively, issues with PAX. Being the kind of person who sees everything subjectively, you probably won't ever understand the distinction.
Posts
The BYOConsole room was the best.
For having so many amazing conventions/expos there, the people suck. Also, obviously it was really crowded, but I am not sure of any other locations to recomment.
Geek Movies playing in line-up rooms before the show really gets underway, external monitors so those who can't get in can at least watch, bigger panel rooms, crane game for swag with proceeds to Child's Play... are all good ideas and I second/third/whatever them.
1) More freeplay stages, separated by genre: For one, the lineup at the freeplay stage was pretty long at times and having more stages would be good to keep wait times shorter. Further, having them split by genre (say, a classic rock stage, a metal stage, and a general stage) would let people gather based on their individual tastes, so people who want to listen to music they like don't have to wait through 3 renditions of Coheed and Cambria while they wait to play something that isn't awful. Also, talk to Harmonix about getting the freeplay machines set up with DLC... the great selection of DLC is what separates Rock Band from GH and they should be showing that off like they did at their main booth.
2) Introduce guidelines/requirements for player throughput at the exhibit hall booths. If a booth is limiting people to 5 minutes each and has 5 demo units, that's a throughput of 60 gamers/hour. Finding some kind of incentive or guideline to encourage the exhibitors to let as many gamers as possible try their games would hopefully reduce the massive waits for some titles.
3) A bigger PC Freeplay area would be nice, and finding a way to make Console freeplay signouts a little more straightforward would be good. I only freeplayed on the consoles once all weekend, right at the start of sunday, because any other time I wanted to I was told it would be a 45 minute wait to sign something out. Meanwhile, plenty of consoles around the freeplay rooms were unoccupied.
4) Some kind of LFG system that automatically groups people by the games they want to play. No idea how it would be done, but if possible... awesome.
5) If you're going to say it's open until 3am... have it stay open until 3am. Both Friday and Saturday night I was told they were closing up around 2-2:15am. It's not the end of the world, but it's not cool either.
I really enjoyed the show, but there were moments I was less than thrilled with. Hopefully things shape up next year!
She's really pretty cool, honestly.
That said, I do believe there is a lesson to take away from all of this:
The PAX site needs to clearly communicate that it is NOT a "family-friendly" event, especially now that attendance is growing to the point that people are going to start coming because they saw it was this awesome con for video games, rather than just being a community for a webcomic getting together and partying. I did see a small number of children about, often with confused and disapproving grandparents tagging along behind them, obviously unaware as to what kind of event they'd agreed to bring them to.
Khoo, you should look into that. ;-)
Eh, what can you do. I was to busy running around, collecting buttons, meeting people, and playing games. It did make my experience a tad more sour, however. You would think they'd be more tolerant, considering they have, oh, I don't know.. comicon and sakura con there too, in addition to PAX.
Maybe so, but even just checking the site (which once had the tag line "the most f'ing awesome gaming convention ever" I saw this as the first question in the FAQ:
Profanity in the FAQ...seriously, you have to have tunnel vision not to notice the hints. Kids and families are not mentioned anywhere, and anyone who knows about the con should at least know about Penny Arcade.
I just give her a refund and ask her politely not to bring her kids their again if they can't handle a T for Teens setting with M rated games.
Seriously, just do your homework, stop acting like your uninformed decisions is everyone else's fault and making up stuff like "family friendly" was once on the site. Good parents do research on the environments they are going to expose their kids too, it would take five minutes reading the comic, the forums, and looking at pictures to figure out what kind of things you'd find at PAX. Do you see kids in the pictures or them mentioned? No, take a hint. Lots of cussing. Yes, take a hint. Do most gaming conventions and conventions in general feature people dressing up as their favorite characters who are sometimes showing skin. Yes, take a hint. PAX has not changed this year, her husband misrepresented the con to her if he's acting like booth babes, ads and game posters with scantily clad women are something new to game cons and PAX. I remember the first Guild Wars being at 04 and having all those things.
I also like how the Gamer Dad panel and female gamer panels were totally overlooked.
fake edit: I'm being asked not to post this under the understanding that you just aren't communicating you feelings appropriately. Whereas you have a right to complain when you feel offended, then I do as well.
Was the pre-registration lists used in advance to prepare a rough draft set of tournament brackets?
Would it be possible to do a "Report and Check In By X Time" addition to the rules to prevent having to do any "last call for..." calls?
The tournaments ran smoothly and quickly when they got started, which is pretty amazing considering the sizes of the tournaments this year - and they were fun!
True, and I agree with you, but isn't it easier to clearly define the event up-front, rather than leave it up to research? I'm a parent, too, and I'll go out of my way to be sure I'm informed on the things my children do, but at the same time, I personally appreciate it if things are clearly laid out and save me the time. ;-)
I don't think the core request is an unreasonable one.
If it was actually to make it more explicit that its not a place for kids, that is somewhat reasonable. Afterall, they have warnings on their books that they aren't comics for kids. They changed the tag line a few months ago, but 3 months ago it was explicit in the wording.
Here are some of my PAX 2004 pics to show that the 'scantily clad women' has always been at PAX.
http://picasaweb.google.com/yomommasteve/PAX2004#5241450528557351746
http://picasaweb.google.com/yomommasteve/PAX2004#5241450792251414114
Point Conceded. The core request came from an ambiguous statement on the PAX site, though, so the suggestion to have it clarified still stands. ;-)
Seriously. I know Enforcers are there to have fun too, but that was the single most important non-concert event I was looking forward to and I simply couldn't do it because I'd miss too many smaller things. Would have been great if it could be split into 3 smaller tournaments, for example.
And then the TF2 tourney ran over the concerts...but that's a separate issue. Can't schedule everything perfectly.
If anything I'm all for a 15 and up age limit.
Of course not, it's a dating service.:P
A very large portion of companies would be banned from the event, along with most Penny Arcade strips, Cosplaying, and anyone who didn't dress like a Mormon. The Keynote and anything with "Gabe" and "Tycho" could not happen, because the keynote speakers always cuss at least a little and Gabe and Tycho are the writers of Penny Arcade, The House that Wangs Built.
The reason that children aren't banned outright is because many families believe their children will not be harmed by words or seeing cleavage or animated violence, so they let the parents make the call, because they assume that parents know how to raise their children and don't need two dudes they don't know making their decisions for them.
This is not, nor has it ever been advertised as, a family event. Have you ever even read Penny Arcade?? If you're not comfortable with foul language and the occasional scantily-clad attendee or booth babe, then don't come. I can't believe anyone would come to PAX and not know what to expect.
A: "What do you want from me?!?!?"
I too really missed the huge comic strips on the walls.
I met this really cool 10-year-old in the Rock Band 2 line. He says he can sing Bon Jovi and Red Hot Chili Peppers really well. We had a good conversation. But then I found out he was an unaccompanied minor.
What is up with that? Not sure how this can be controlled but something should be put in place before something bad happens to some kid(s) showing up to PAX without adult supervision.
A: "What do you want from me?!?!?"
I'm going to third this and add on something else regarding tournaments...
What happened to the pictures/videos that the hired cameraman took after the tournament? My team placed 2nd in the TF2 tourny, yet I have nothing to show for it except a Darth Tater potato head doll. And don't get me wrong, I love my Darth Tater, but the prize booth was epic fail. Oh, I also got a pair of socks.
PAX claimed to be "for the gamers," yet there was nothing congratulating the winners of tournaments or decent prizes.
Also, MOAR SUMOS! There was nowhere to sit, and you can only stand in those massively long lines without getting tired for so long.
If anyone is reading this that can find those TF2 Tournament pictures... PLEASE send them to me!!!
They didn't announce the winners and hand out prize tickets at the tournaments? That sucks.
A: "What do you want from me?!?!?"
And guys, lets not bash these girls for wearing what they did! come on! You want to talk about immature- if your not mature enough to handle a little mid drift and thigh go back to second grade. Those girls were brave and looked fantastic!
Speaking of second graders, I'm also a parent. And 'family friendly' or not, you have to be prepared for what you might run into in a crowd that size, period. PAX isn't d*sneyland. If you would like to bring your kids, (and I fully plan on doing just that eventually!) don't get mad at the convention or at the attire of other PAX goers. If PAX were to set up regulations on what women could or could not wear, I would be seriously offended.
You have your own ideas of what is appropriate to expose your kids to. Thats great!
But its not their fault. They didn't do anything wrong. Now you know, and you can use this experience to make decisions on whether or not to take your kids to PAX next year.
My suggestions:
-It's not a convention that is intended to cater to children, and the front page isn't clear on that. The games are mainly mature, the audience can be a bit rough around the edges, and I can see how some parents might be unprepared for it.
-Also pictures of previous expos on the main page (I had to go to flickr to find any)
Thats so great! I totally agree about the self image thing. I do definitely agree that it needs to be more clear, because, clearly, some people were confused about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7DqrRyY-2M
...buuuuuut, it was worth every second to get in the hall
Seriously, if they can set up so many hordes of chairs for other large panels, why not have them available for those events?
They had the entire hall jam packed with chairs when I went to the Spore demo for example, so it's not like there isn't enough seats for everyone.
If some people want standing room then why not just go half and half?
At least it would be better than the few rows shoved all the way in the back that we got.
Especially for the concerts, which run a lot longer.
Plenty of people like to stay and enjoy the music without bouncing around.
The only reason I really complain is because I happened to be suffering from severe "pregnant lady backache disorder" this year
Seriously..... I was there for the entire concert friday night, and by the time Jonathan Coulton even got on stage I was about ready to keel over - when you're big and round and full of baby, even sitting on the rock hard floor doesn't help, it just makes your legs numb :P
I will happily volunteer to help pile chairs back up afterward, as (hopefully) plenty others would be, if we were given the option to sit on them in the first place that is...
Heck, just announce that everyone needs to start piling them up, and then don't open the main doors for a few minutes afterward.
I bet you'd get a surprising number of people to comply.
I didn't even bother with saturday's concert because I knew how unpleasant it would be (also, I wasn't interested in most of the bands that night - that helped)
I could walk through the exhibit hall all day provided I could take a break now and then, but for the concerts, it's not like I could just come back later and watch JoCo perform
Some people have a legitimate excuse to need to sit, and honestly, some people are just plain tired after all the days excitement.
Presuming we could get a decent sized group to clear the chairs after the shows, where's the harm in not making people have to stand even more?
Earley
Regarding the lack of use of the sixth floor, Gender Odyssey had reserved the sixth floor before us. Just because we're the larger of the two gatherings, unfortunately, doesn't mean we get it by default.
HOWEVER, with that in mind, I do believe that we are planning to get the sixth floor next year. Please, don't quote me on that, seeing as how I'm not PA staff and have nothing to do with the actual planning or reservation process, but I do believe that we're really, really hoping to have it available to us for next year.
[10:24] * @BigRed-Worky cums the water
[12:32] <+prox> lawl you kickbanned me so hard my client crashed
Five minutes after I made my post about there being a chance of us getting the sixth floor next year, yes. Reading is hard.
[10:24] * @BigRed-Worky cums the water
[12:32] <+prox> lawl you kickbanned me so hard my client crashed
2 - To say that one should know the tone of an event centered around video games based on the tone of a comic drawn by the people who run it is just... well... stupid. Yeah, it started because of PA, but seriously? It's not a comic con. It's a game con. And last I checked games were for everyone and there were plenty of games there that were perfectly fine for our eight-year-old who isn't strictly limited to E games (because his parents actually play and know what's in individual games). But what's the damn point if you can't get in to play them?
3 - There's still a major issue with sexism in gaming and I think that the guys who run this are fully aware of that. But it's frankly not enough to just have a couple panels about it and expect that that's going to smooth everything over.
4 - I NEVER said ALL gamers have no lives. WE don't teach our kid that. We teach BALANCE. We teach social and cultural equality between the sexes as a crucial goal for civilized people. Any psychologist on the face of the earth can explain the importance of both of those.
5 - I've already conceded that it's perfectly fine by me if they decide they DON'T want tons of money from parents and families. Fine. But it needs to be CLEAR and it isn't as it stands now. But frankly if that IS how they feel about it, I don't feel bad not supporting Child's Play because there's an obvious contradiction there.
That all said, I'm done with the forums. I'm not going to try to unravel the circular, nonexistent, ephemeral, or pixie logic that is being thrown around here anymore. I came here because I wanted to post suggestions. It's up to Khoo and Mike and Jerry to take them or leave them. And after the barrage of negativity from a lot of folks here, I don't really care what the rest of you think. The fact remains that these are ACTUAL issues with PAX that do ACTUALLY need to be addressed. Nothing any of you have said has changed that.
So, argument over. I know return you to your regularly scheduled thread. [bows out]
You say that you don't care what we have to say because of how negative we are, and yet all of your posts have an overtly hostile tone. Double standard much? Not that it matters, since you're not coming back to read this.
I think this is what bothers me the most about you. I am a parent, and I have a family, and we give tons of money to PAX. Stop speaking for me, thanks. You're wrong.
Thank goodness.
No, the fact is that YOU take issue with them. They are not, objectively, issues with PAX. Being the kind of person who sees everything subjectively, you probably won't ever understand the distinction.
There was never an argument, only some clueless cultural gestapo ranting about her perspective on PAX. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.