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West Coast Train Trip 2008 After Action Report
Augustus
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Registered User regular
THIS THREAD IS NO LONGER ABOUT PICTURES. It's about child-like adults who didn't like playing nice with others. Enjoy the trainwreck!
I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat. - Will Rogers
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We also had some chicks come down and play Rock Band in a hot, sweaty room full of guys.
Some of the reasons I didn't have a good time are my own fault. I was traveling alone, for one thing-- for an event like this, always bring a friend so that you will have someone to play games with in case you can't get in on the rest of the activities. Also, I got on in Los Angeles, and the novelty of being on a train wore off after about five hours. If I had gotten on in Portland, this wouldn't have been a problem.
My main problem with PAXtrain itself was that everything was concentrated into the observation car. I would expect certain activities to be concentrated into a single car-- Rock Band, for example, isn't something you can just set up everywhere. But like the rest of the train, space in the observation car is really limited, and we have to share it with everyone on the train, whether or not they are interested in PAX. Spreading the PAX goodness throughout the train would be a big improvement, but with such little space available, it's a challenge. I have a few ideas on ways to make PAXtrain better for future years and I'd like to run them by you guys, get your feedback-- please let me know if these ideas have any merit.
Here's one: When I bought my ticket, I also reserved a roomette, and the confirmation email told me what room number I had and what car that was in. Next time, what we could do is to get everyone's car and room number in the PAXtrain thread. That, together with a map of the Coast Starlight train, would give us an idea of what rooms we have available for PAXtrain use. Once we have some space to work with, we can designate some cars for certain events.
For example, let's say that we know there will be two PAXtrain attendees, each with roomettes, in car 13, with two more attendees with roomettes in car 14. So we designate car 13 for tabletop games. We get with the guys in car 13 and arrange with them to bring card tables and a few games like Catan, D&D, etc. You can also check out tabletop game sets from this car, if anyone has donated any games for this purpose.
Then we designate car 14 to be a handheld gaming distribution station. Any PSP games or movies, any DS games, all go to car 14. Over there, they have a signup sheet where you can check out any of these games or movies for your own use. This signup sheet is dual-purpose: In addition to letting the organizers know who has what game, attendees who brought their own copy of Mario Kart DS, for example, can check the sheet to find out where on the train they can find other attendees that are also playing Mario Kart DS.
Another suggestion would be that most of the interested participants get on the Seattle -> Los Angeles route, rather than the other way around. There was a lot of interesting stuff going on around PAX during the days leading up to the event, like the pre-PAX dinner, the Magical Mystery Tour, etc.; and the only way to see it all is to get on the PAXtrain after PAX, rather than before. But that's less of an issue for the PAXtrain organizers.
I traveled by myself as well, but had a blast getting to know people, even if I won't make life long friends with them. (Mostly my fault, I'm not an on the forums kind of guy)
However, I got to meet new people who had a shared experience, and that makes bonding with them, even if it's only for the train, very easy. It also tends to make it fun, because we all get to geek out about how cool the expo was.
Though I was a little sad that I didn't get to play in the D&D game, there was lots of other stuff on the train that I enjoyed, particularly the Dr. Horrible Sing-Along...though I was doing most of the singing, so I'm biased.
I had lunch with three folks who just invited a random person, and because I accepted, I got to have a cool little conversation and a horribly over priced meal. I even got invited off the train by force!
I would definitely do the WCTT again, if only to save some money, and relive the adventure, though I may not be back next year, as I'm applying for JET.
There were happenings in other cars - both of the arcades were taken over. As to your primary suggestion: I was under the impression you can only get to the roomette areas if you are staying in a roomette.
As to your complaints, I know how you feel. When we got on in San Jose, we felt excluded and I (briefly) regretted taking the train. But we grabbed seats further down the Obs car, got some DS games going, and by the next day we were having a blast.
Plus you'd get noise complaints. For anything group-related we're pretty much restricted to the Parlour Car which only sleepers can get into, and the Obs deck above and below. It really isn't practical in any way for a bunch of people to do a bunch of stuff, but maybe if people brought foldy tables to set up in the arcade car for more tabletop stuff, or if they let us use the dining car's extra tables.
I personally never really found it hard to find a seat, or a place to play. What we need to do is make sure people don't take over the tables for too long, so maybe we could do a table reservation system or something where people sign up for tables for a while. It'd be difficult if someone non-paxtrain took a table, but we can work around that. I agree though, most of the time the obs deck was overly crowded, and if we're going to run D&D games in the future they should be in a place where we're not restricted by table space, like the arcade car.
On the way up we had 2 arcade cars on the train one had Rock Band set up and the other had a 360/Wii/SNES/N64 in it.
Roomettes are private cars so regular coach passengers can't to be allowed in so we can't just turn them into a designated gaming area not to mention we would have to shut it down the second it got dark cause we would end up keeping up other people with the noise. Plus the standard roomettes can't really hold more then 2 people and the deluxe aren't that much bigger but you need $$$ to get them. Maybe if Amtrak follows up with putting all the PAX goers in their own car like they were supposed to...
I ran a list of who was bringing what to give us an idea of what we would have. People being flaky and saying they will bring something and then not inform me of updates made it somewhat inaccurate. I do like the idea of having people sign a list on the train of what they have though. As for letting people drop off their stuff and have people check it out that has to be the worst idea for the train trip so far the number of lost and missing items would be a nightmare to handle and in the best case I would have people's contact info and just have to spend money out of my own pocket to mail it to them.
Another suggestion would be that most of the interested participants get on the Seattle -> Los Angeles route, rather than the other way around. There was a lot of interesting stuff going on around PAX during the days leading up to the event, like the pre-PAX dinner, the Magical Mystery Tour, etc.; and the only way to see it all is to get on the PAXtrain after PAX, rather than before. But that's less of an issue for the PAXtrain organizers.[/QUOTE]
We can't exactly help it when a train get's delayed by like 4 hours. Maybe the people organizing other pre-PAX events would like to help WCTT goers join in the fun but it is hard when we can't give them an exact arrival time till we are almost in Seattle. Not to mention we are arriving Thursday night when a lot of the stuff is already over or in progress.
Edit: As for traveling solo it is not exactly hard to find some people to play with when you got like 50+ nerds and geeks playing tons of games and would gladly let someone else join in.
Secondly, we don't own the train. They throw us where they want us and the only places where they can't complain of noise are in the kiddie cars - sorry, now the arcade cars - and the observation deck. Any of the coach cars will become A Problem (note the caps) if we make noise. I even heard of a few places where people bitched because of our choice of language.
Still though, some of those ideas are going to be implemented this next year, as such: We're planning on having at least one coach car as a designated PAX coach car, ideally one with the arcade car, set to the back of the train (car 14 - always the last car in a Starlight run), so nobody would wander in there. The ride down had a guy who was a CSR for Amtrak who I took aside and talked to for a bit. We're hoping to work things out soon.
However, the use of the obs deck is something we'll just have to deal with.
Slick, you're right on the money - the unwashed masses are not allowed in the roomettes.
ALSO: Thank you all for being good sports about this. It bugged the shit out of me, and next year we plan on just handing everyone a little bag with a copy of the waiver in it along with some stuff (a pamphlet showing where we're setting up X, Y, and Z, what time we're doing A, B and C, and possibly a button and a name tag). The waiver was passed to me by Porkfry and was so that the PAX08 DVD team could use the footage on the DVD - but I couldn't get it photocopied in time so we made that ghetto-fabulous waiver by copying down the text on a notebook and using paper. I KNOW IT WAS GHETTO AND I KNOW I WAS BUGGING THE EVER LOVING FUCK OUT OF EVERYONE. But it had to be done. I don't give a shit about it's legal weight or anything - I even had to deal with some fucking armchair lawyers grill me on it - the only thing I cared about concerning that waiver was that it was signed so the footage was acceptable. A similar waiver was already part of the terms and conditions of attending PAX in the first place, but I was asked to get a second waiver signed anyways. And quite frankly I hated scrambling around asking EVERYONE DIDJA SIGN THIS PIECE'A PAPER RIGHT HERE DIDJA HUH HUH, but wouldn't you know it, every time I did I would invariably find SOMEONE who didn't sign it and had been on for 10 hours, having missed the last 9 times I bitched about the waiver.
Practically everyone was a good sport about it, though. Thanks. If you weren't, well, too bad, because the waiver will be back next year.
Let's see some pictures. Maybe even one of those motion pictures, ideally a talkie.
Who do I have to give permission to to use my likeness?
The waiver was for the ride up only.
Nijhazer: Most of us were riding coach on this trip, and if you have a coach seat you aren't allowed access to the sleeper cars. The Amtrak staff on the way up was a little confrontational. We were afraid to set up in the arcade cars at first. If you had ventured out the second day you would have found Rock Band set up in one arcade car, and a chill console / movie thing going on in the second arcade car.
I wish you had come out to mingle with us after we got things figured out (our original plan was thwarted). Things improved once we decided to take over the arcade cars.
We've learned from this year, and will attempt to have a superior setup next year.
Wait. We're off the party.
...
fuck!
The ride down was filled with AMTRAK guys who had seen us last year and were pretty much willing to let us do whatever.
I've already said my piece and won't clutter up this thread any further. But please try not to discourage people who didn't have a good time from posting their feedback. If the rules about roomettes are that strict, then I can't imagine I'm the only one who had a negative experience.
I think I know which guy you are, Nijhazer, and I gotta say, heed the words of Jim Morrison: Break on through to the other side.
I stuck around the Obs car the first night, usually conversing with some of the people who sat near us in Coach. Eventually, I found people starting a Mario Kart DS game and it ballooned into a 6-man MK DS on the race to 100 points. After that, I already forgot his name, brought in Apples-to-Apples and we were constantly cycling through people as the night went on. Even random people who we only assumed were going to PAX would be watching us and we would ask them to jump on in.
The DnD thing was pre-planned, for the most part, and had filled up during the time I was contemplating whether to participate or not. The DS gaming sessions were random and usually a quick, audible claim of "does anyone else want to play ____?" The Rock Band thing downstairs had no real line. You just kindly say "mind if I go next?" and you'd most likely get in on it.
A lot of the fun stuff I missed out/participated in was not planned and just occurred randomly. For the most part, people tried to be inclusive in terms of participation or at least the people I saw did. The cramped spaces and lack of mobility did hinder it but you work with what you get.
Maybe we could have like...a train intranet with an updates page and a dynamic map and shit. I'm sure amongst the web developers on the train we could make something pretty useful.
Couldn't we set up like...a Twitter thing or something that sends out text message updates to everyone's phones?
It's also worth noting that if someone else wants to help with the DMing, that's cool too. RPGA events allow as many DMs to run tables as are needed.
the only thing I was hoping for in that contact list was that it could be seperated by who got on/off where. Just so that guys like me who want to hunt down the others for gaming purposes can. 'Stalk' if you will... *Arrested* READ ME MY RIGHTS PIG!
In your case one of the cooler people I met this PAX was from Portland. Stalk away, there were a bunch of people on the train I'd want to be friends with if I lived near them.
Augustus, I agree with what you said. At the same time, it's not our place to minimize Nijhaze's feelings. He had a certain experience. While it may not have reflected the feelings of most of the rest of the participants, I'm sure it was very real to him. You speak about not judging or being judged, let's refrain from judging Nijhaze and calling his concerns "worthless."
The fact is, for whatever reason, Nijhaze didn't have a great time. I can understand and appreciate that. It's not my place to give him advice and tell him what he should have done differently. I will say that I had an excellent time, and a large part of it was due to my outgoing-ness.
When i first read Nijhaze's post (the first night of the train up), I felt a little sad and I wanted to seek him out and make sure he was being included. I used to be that shy, quiet nerd. I'm sure a lot of us have at some point.
Nijhaze I'm sorry you had a bad time. There were so many awesome people on this trip and it's a shame you didn't get to know them.
My bad on not getting the key out sooner. I will do that a little better next go round.
As for an intranet site, i think i can whip something up to host it. For the site design....well i can make something functional but it wont be pretty so if any volunteers are out there that can make something a bit nicer i will be more than happy to pass the torch on that.
EDIT: This is a long post. Adding spoilers where necessary. Click spoiler under the suggestion to read the bulk of the text.
1) Register as a group with AMTRAK.
I asked them for more specifics: would the staff know about us before hand, how much would the discount be, how many people do we need for exclusive occupancy of a car, how much access would we have to the observation deck and arcade rooms, would we be given any preferred treatment for dining cars, etc. I just want us to know as much as we can, as far in advance as we can, so that we can take the steps necessary to improve our experience. I also think that if we start asking and arranging for stuff well in advance, we're more likely to get it.
I'm more than happy to work with AMTRAK on behalf of the group, but I certainly don't think I'm entitled or should be working with anyone on behalf of the group. I just sent off the initial e-mail because I was curious.
2) Have a clearer schedule of events.
I think it would be very helpful if we had a schedule created ahead of time once all these details are finalized, like in the few weeks prior to PAX, and then gave this schedule out to all the members of the trip before we all left. We could also post this schedule on the train, maybe in banner form in the observation deck (or wherever), or give out printed copies to people as they arrive on the train. Finally, we could host the schedule on the Internet or perhaps on an Intranet (someone mentioned this possibility) for people to access electronically. The electronic version would be especially useful if we wanted to revise the schedule or make additions on the train, which we'll almost certainly want to do. People don't bring stuff, people don't show up, people want to do stuff once they get on the train, etc. and having a schedule will make all of that a lot easier for everyone.
3) Nametags.
4) Have a list of people prepared ahead of time, along with where they're boarding, for the trip up and the trip back.
5) Have actual, official PAXtrain organizers, clearly labeled like enforcers.
6) PAXtrain events at PAX.
That's all I have for now. I'll edit as I see fit. Everything I said in this thread, I'm more than willing to volunteer to do/help do, but again, I don't think I'm entitled to do it or obligated to do it just because I suggested it.
Organizer of the Post-PAX Party. You should come!
Satellite Theater for life!
I must say, on the way to PAX, I was a little intimidated when it came to joining in on the OBS car fun because every table was totally full and tons of games were already running. I brought my card games to the OBS car on two separate occasions and asked loudly a couple of times if anyone was down for any, with zero response.
On the way back, we had started card games in the station before boarding, and I think it was Tim (but maybe not...memory fuzzy) who came and found me in my seat to ask me if I wanted to join in the card games, and we played them for like 14 hours solid.
I'm not sure why there was such a huge difference in attitude on the way up and the way back, but I felt Nij's pain for half of the trip.
I totally second the nametag suggestion; I'm awful with names, and it's much easier to communicate with people when you aren't reduced to saying "hey, um, you! no, not you, him!"
Most of this sounds pretty reasonable and I think falls under the umbrella of "needz moar organization." I loved the crazy, spontaneity of this year's PAXtrain, but I agree that we could probably benefit from a little more organization. I also understand that it's impossible to plan for every possible contingency.
I personally love making organizational lists, forms, and spreadsheets, so I can volunteer myself for some of these tasks =D.
deodorant.
FUCKING DEODORANT PLEASE.
some of you fine fellows smelled to the high hells, so next year if you go, assume it was you and be embarrassed, and put on deodorant twice a day each day on the train, and when you wake up go to the bathroom and wash your pits and crotch please.
also change your clothes for that second day, it was almost unbearable in some areas
Yeah... I'm torn between sympathizing with people like you and Nijhazer's feelings, and between... not. The thing is, it's a party. If you tend to be introverted, shy, anti-social, whatever, parties can suck for you. I was that way all throughout my adolescence, so I can definitely understand. But the only way to fix that problem really is to just get over it. That sounds cold and harsh, but I've thought about it quite a bit and there really isn't a nicer way to say it that would get the point across. You really do have to sort of throw yourself into the fun if you want to be a part of the fun - the chances of someone seeing you all bored and lonely and inviting you into the group aren't very good, even though the train is full of good people who would certainly do that if they knew you were so bored. It's just a busy, loud atmosphere. I came out of my shell pretty rapidly once I moved out of my parents' house, got my own place, started college, got a girlfriend, etc. Now I feel like I'm very confident among strangers, and on the train I really did just plop myself into empty seats and start talking to people. I had a very good time, but I can very easily see how if I wasn't so confident and imposing (heh), I would have been kind of dejected.
On the other hand, I do feel like steps could be taken to make this part of the party easier on people. Nametags, a schedule, having cars to ourselves, etc. will all help make people feel more welcome and a part of the group, and this can go a long way toward getting someone over that initial hurdle of opening up to people. And once you've opened up and inserted yourself once, it's pretty easy to do it again. So while I don't think anyone can "fix" this problem for the people who have it, I do think there are steps that can be taken to minimize the problem even though it can't be completely erased.
EDIT: People who do have a hard time inserting themselves into the fun should know that the chances of someone rejecting you, being a dick, refusing to let you play, etc. are VERY, VERY SLIM with this group of people. As long as you aren't creepy, a jerk, smelly, or rude, you'll be fine. This is a very low risk atmosphere. You aren't asking to play M:tG with the football team at a high school kegger here. You're one of us and we're with you. Remember that.
Organizer of the Post-PAX Party. You should come!
Satellite Theater for life!
/agreed
I wanted to play more Rock Band, but entering that car was like entering an armpit. One guy next to me picked up a guitar and I reeled.
My plan for next time (and what I did on the way back) is to bring a shirt on the train and change into it halfway through the trip. This is, of course, in addition to re-applying deodorant.
do not try to boss me around, it will not go well.
I'm actually not a very shy person; I just am not sure how to get a game started when holding a fat stack of them and asking loudly if anyone wants to join me doesn't work.
I'm fine with more organization but I sort of enjoyed the spontaneous and random antics I experienced.