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A twinkless mmorpg server... (for improved balance and economy)

2456

Posts

  • eobeteobet Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Scroffus wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Scroffus wrote: »
    The thing about inflation is that even though everything costs more to buy on the AH, you can also sell stuff for more on the AH. This means that ingame gold sinks (eg repairs, mounts) become easier to obtain.

    Unless you just bought the game and are playing for the first time.

    I wonder, does this sound about right:

    Killing a monster at level 6 and level 60 takes about the same time. You just use cooler gear, cooler skills and fight cooler monsters at level 60. Could it then be that they calculate that about say 33% of your gold rewards will go to repairs and maintenance to be able to continue killing, 33% for making your character learn more stuff and 33% for equipping your character. That would make gold in vs. gold out pretty even. However, when you reach the end game, you don't have to learn anything new or get new equipment, so suddenly, there's 66% more gold to spend and that's where twinks are born and the economic system fails?

    Actually its even better for people who are just starting. The mass amount of twinking means you can sell low level stuff for high amounts. Imagine your Nubby McNubnub the level 40 rogue. You need a mount (lets assume this is before the mount change thing) so you need to make 100g for a mount. If this was a couple years ago you would have to sell more because stuff sold for less. Wool Cloth (which usually sells for a high price) used to sell for 20s-1g max but now it sells for 5-6g a stack. Its the same for all low level tradeskill items and if you are lucky enough to find a BoE blue/epic then you're in the money (I recently found some cruddy level 40ish mail with a bunch of spi and str and it sold for 100g). The money you have to pay the game stays the same however the money you can earn from other people has increased.

    No, no no. That is breaking the game, since the NPC vendors do not adjust their price according to the inflation.

    In fact, Blizzard did the other way around it seems. I just bought a mount for less than 10 gold now, and I remember it costing around 100 gold back when the game was released? I find this very odd, because as you say, getting a 100 gold is easier today than it ever was...

    eobet on
    Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
  • acronomiconacronomicon Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    @Salt: it has nothing to do with the people that don't twink and me wanting to humiliate them. I twink my characters because I want to be as badass as possible, (like everyone else playing this game). My main is a mage that I started on a PVP server and I twinked him through every bracket except 50-59, on my own, no guild, no other high lvl character.

    By definition, if you did the work on that toon you didn't twink him. Or at least that's my definition.

    Twinking is not about min/maxing your character. People do it, and have since MMORPGs began. Twinking is about doing the work on your higher level toon, or getting your guild to outfit you in the biggest, baddest stuff around. People have also done that since MMORPGs began.

    In a straight PvE game, it really doesn't matter. Someone will be flashier than you, but unless they're running roughshod through your camp, they're not really impacting your play. In PvP, though, twinking the hell out of your lowbie so you can run roughshod over other people in your BG makes it about as challenging as ganking lowbies on your level 70...only there's an illusion of equality if you care enough to look for it.

    acronomicon on
    32340.jpg
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    My main is a mage that I started on a PVP server and I twinked him through every bracket except 50-59, on my own, no guild, no other high lvl character.
    That's not really twinking.
    Ok what is it then?
    Gearing yourself.

    Did you buy your own lvl 19 blue and put at lvl 60 enchant on it at 19?

    Yes, I obviously couldn't do the librams, but I could afford the lvl 60 enchants at 19. Mining + Deviate Fish + having a brain to be able to manipulate the AH = tons of gold.

    Let me reverse this question a bit then. Do you think people at any level should have to set some kind of "limit" on how good their gear is just because other people don't have the time+gold+willpower to gear their character fully? How ridiculous does that sound?

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Twink doesn't require getting an item donated/passed down, it simply means having the best possible equipment/abilities given your current level, having your strengths maximized and weaknesses minimized.

    A twink is someone who gets good shit passed onto them from a higher level/richer character, not someone who knows how to play his fucking class.

    In all my experience with RPGs, twinking always just involved getting/having the best stuff. You can twink your guys in FFX by min/maxing the entire sphere grid. You can twink in DnD by taking extra care to design your character around stats and abilities rather than looking at it from a roleplaying perspective. Getting stuff from somebody else could potentially help you twink, but that's not what twinking is itself.

    Getting stuff by yourself, making your character as powerful as possible, is not twinking. It's just playing the game and gearing up.

    A key element of twinking, why it's called twinking and not just gearing up, is the fact that a higher level character provides a lower level character with money and good gear.

    It's not just "playing the game." I'll keep going with the FFX analogy: "playing the game" is getting to the end and simply beating it, maybe doing a couple extra fights, and shelving it. Twinking is when you spend the hundred hours required to redesign the sphere grid to totally max everything out.

    By your definition, it's impossible to twink in a single player game? I can accept a definition like that if we're saying it just for this thread's sake, but the word is used for single player games all the time. Twinking, min/maxing, munchkin, same difference.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • Wombat02Wombat02 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    I have no hate for twinks. If that's the part of this game they find to be the most fun, good for them. Plus isn't it the best when you actually DO get to kill the level 19 twink rogue in WSG.

    Wombat02 on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    eobet wrote: »
    Scroffus wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Scroffus wrote: »
    The thing about inflation is that even though everything costs more to buy on the AH, you can also sell stuff for more on the AH. This means that ingame gold sinks (eg repairs, mounts) become easier to obtain.

    Unless you just bought the game and are playing for the first time.

    I wonder, does this sound about right:

    Killing a monster at level 6 and level 60 takes about the same time. You just use cooler gear, cooler skills and fight cooler monsters at level 60. Could it then be that they calculate that about say 33% of your gold rewards will go to repairs and maintenance to be able to continue killing, 33% for making your character learn more stuff and 33% for equipping your character. That would make gold in vs. gold out pretty even. However, when you reach the end game, you don't have to learn anything new or get new equipment, so suddenly, there's 66% more gold to spend and that's where twinks are born and the economic system fails?

    Actually its even better for people who are just starting. The mass amount of twinking means you can sell low level stuff for high amounts. Imagine your Nubby McNubnub the level 40 rogue. You need a mount (lets assume this is before the mount change thing) so you need to make 100g for a mount. If this was a couple years ago you would have to sell more because stuff sold for less. Wool Cloth (which usually sells for a high price) used to sell for 20s-1g max but now it sells for 5-6g a stack. Its the same for all low level tradeskill items and if you are lucky enough to find a BoE blue/epic then you're in the money (I recently found some cruddy level 40ish mail with a bunch of spi and str and it sold for 100g). The money you have to pay the game stays the same however the money you can earn from other people has increased.

    No, no no. That is breaking the game, since the NPC vendors do not adjust their price according to the inflation.

    In fact, Blizzard did the other way around it seems. I just bought a mount for less than 10 gold now, and I remember it costing around 100 gold back when the game was released? I find this very odd, because as you say, getting a 100 gold is easier today than it ever was...

    The economy in an MMO isn't about the NPC's. It's about what players charge other players.

    And about the mount thing; pay more attention. They swapped the prices so instead of 10g riding 90g mount, it's 90g riding 10g mount.

    I think you knew this but it didn't support your flimsy argument so you ignored it.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • reVersereVerse Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Twink doesn't require getting an item donated/passed down, it simply means having the best possible equipment/abilities given your current level, having your strengths maximized and weaknesses minimized.

    A twink is someone who gets good shit passed onto them from a higher level/richer character, not someone who knows how to play his fucking class.

    In all my experience with RPGs, twinking always just involved getting/having the best stuff. You can twink your guys in FFX by min/maxing the entire sphere grid. You can twink in DnD by taking extra care to design your character around stats and abilities rather than looking at it from a roleplaying perspective. Getting stuff from somebody else could potentially help you twink, but that's not what twinking is itself.

    Getting stuff by yourself, making your character as powerful as possible, is not twinking. It's just playing the game and gearing up.

    A key element of twinking, why it's called twinking and not just gearing up, is the fact that a higher level character provides a lower level character with money and good gear.

    It's not just "playing the game." I'll keep going with the FFX analogy: "playing the game" is getting to the end and simply beating it, maybe doing a couple extra fights, and shelving it. Twinking is when you spend the hundred hours required to redesign the sphere grid to totally max everything out.

    By your definition, it's impossible to twink in a single player game? I can accept a definition like that if we're saying it just for this thread's sake, but the word is used for single player games all the time. Twinking, min/maxing, munchkin, same difference.

    Twinking and minmaxing aren't the same thing. People who would tell you otherwise are incorrect.

    reVerse on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    My main is a mage that I started on a PVP server and I twinked him through every bracket except 50-59, on my own, no guild, no other high lvl character.
    That's not really twinking.
    Ok what is it then?
    Gearing yourself.

    Did you buy your own lvl 19 blue and put at lvl 60 enchant on it at 19?

    Yes, I obviously couldn't do the librams, but I could afford the lvl 60 enchants at 19. Mining + Deviate Fish + having a brain to be able to manipulate the AH = tons of gold.

    Let me reverse this question a bit then. Do you think people at any level should have to set some kind of "limit" on how good their gear is just because other people don't have the time+gold+willpower to gear their character fully? How ridiculous does that sound?

    It really doesn't sound ridiculous to suggest that Blizzard should put limits in place that make it possible to compete in the 10-19 or 20-29 brackets as a character who is eventually going to reach the cap (as opposed to a character who is never going to leave a bracket.)

    INeedNoSalt on
    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Well you can't really draw lines like that, that's what I'm saying. That definition basically says anyone with good gear in lower brackets doesn't know how to play their class. That's retarded.

    No, actually the assumption is that any asshole with a lvl 70 who has nothing better to do than to gear up a lvl 29 character to the extreme, sucks at the game and cannot actually play the game at 70, so they have to torture any lowbies that might happen to wander into a 29 BG to feel better about themselves.

    Yes only assholes twink, I can't imagine anyone wanting to pvp in a certain bracket for fun, that's ridiculous, everyone should only level straight to 70, never pvp, never gear up or anything until they are 70 so that then their opinion will really, really, matter. Pillar humping is so much fun and balanced.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Well you can't really draw lines like that, that's what I'm saying. That definition basically says anyone with good gear in lower brackets doesn't know how to play their class. That's retarded.

    No, actually the assumption is that any asshole with a lvl 70 who has nothing better to do than to gear up a lvl 29 character to the extreme, sucks at the game and cannot actually play the game at 70, so they have to torture any lowbies that might happen to wander into a 29 BG to feel better about themselves.

    Yes only assholes twink, I can't imagine anyone wanting to pvp in a certain bracket for fun, that's ridiculous, everyone should only level straight to 70, never pvp, never gear up or anything until they are 70 so that then their opinion will really, really, matter. Pillar humping is so much fun and balanced.

    Yes, twinking encourages EXACTLY THAT. People who twink fucking pollute, corrupt and RUIN the sub 60 brackets. You can't PvP while leveling up anymore if you don't have a group of friends to overcome the retarded no-talent twinks. If everything was fucking fair and people PvPd with gear they acquired on that character everything would be fine.

    edit: And it has nothing to do with being 70 so your opinion will matter, I said most twinks, and you cannot say this is not true, are some fucking douchebag who has a 70 and can't actually play the real fucking game, so they have to spend all their acquired gold on a 29 to beat the shit out of innocent people who happen to wander into the sub 60 brackets.

    Mgcw on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    My main is a mage that I started on a PVP server and I twinked him through every bracket except 50-59, on my own, no guild, no other high lvl character.
    That's not really twinking.
    Ok what is it then?
    Gearing yourself.

    Did you buy your own lvl 19 blue and put at lvl 60 enchant on it at 19?

    Yes, I obviously couldn't do the librams, but I could afford the lvl 60 enchants at 19. Mining + Deviate Fish + having a brain to be able to manipulate the AH = tons of gold.

    Let me reverse this question a bit then. Do you think people at any level should have to set some kind of "limit" on how good their gear is just because other people don't have the time+gold+willpower to gear their character fully? How ridiculous does that sound?

    It really doesn't sound ridiculous to suggest that Blizzard should put limits in place that make it possible to compete in the 10-19 or 20-29 brackets as a character who is eventually going to reach the cap (as opposed to a character who is never going to leave a bracket.)

    Their are certain limits though, you can only but TBC enchants on very, very few 29 bracket items. there are level requirements on almost every piece of gear for a reason. They've already done this limiting you speak of.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • Wombat02Wombat02 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Well you can't really draw lines like that, that's what I'm saying. That definition basically says anyone with good gear in lower brackets doesn't know how to play their class. That's retarded.

    No, actually the assumption is that any asshole with a lvl 70 who has nothing better to do than to gear up a lvl 29 character to the extreme, sucks at the game and cannot actually play the game at 70, so they have to torture any lowbies that might happen to wander into a 29 BG to feel better about themselves.

    Yes only assholes twink, I can't imagine anyone wanting to pvp in a certain bracket for fun, that's ridiculous, everyone should only level straight to 70, never pvp, never gear up or anything until they are 70 so that then their opinion will really, really, matter. Pillar humping is so much fun and balanced.

    I was about to disagree, then I ran across a dictionary open on the 'sarcasm' page.

    Wombat02 on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Well you can't really draw lines like that, that's what I'm saying. That definition basically says anyone with good gear in lower brackets doesn't know how to play their class. That's retarded.

    No, actually the assumption is that any asshole with a lvl 70 who has nothing better to do than to gear up a lvl 29 character to the extreme, sucks at the game and cannot actually play the game at 70, so they have to torture any lowbies that might happen to wander into a 29 BG to feel better about themselves.

    Yes only assholes twink, I can't imagine anyone wanting to pvp in a certain bracket for fun, that's ridiculous, everyone should only level straight to 70, never pvp, never gear up or anything until they are 70 so that then their opinion will really, really, matter. Pillar humping is so much fun and balanced.

    Yes, twinking encourages EXACTLY THAT. People who twink fucking pollute, corrupt and RUIN the sub 60 brackets. You can't PvP while leveling up anymore if you don't have a group of friends to overcome the retarded no-talent twinks. If everything was fucking fair and people PvPd with gear they acquired on that character everything would be fine.

    Wow you are delirious. Must be easy just to generalize every single person who's ever decked a character out. Why do people like you pretend twinks are only on the opposing faction?? I'm sure their have been twinks on your side as well.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Twinking is good in PvE. It allows people who have done it all before to accelerate the process in the future. But it ruins low level PvP. I don't think there should be any incredible gear available to people at low levels, or at least it all should be BoP. For example, I hope in WAR the most you can do is twink money and use it to buy supplies and your RR gear at the same level everybody else can.

    Zek on
  • Wombat02Wombat02 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    play the real fucking game, so they have to spend all their acquired gold on a 29 to beat the shit out of innocent people who happen to wander into the sub 60 brackets.

    I propose to you that it is possible that they are the ones playing the "real fucking game" and that you yourself are indeed "some fucking douchebag".


    PARADOX!

    Wombat02 on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    the thing is: there's twinking on both sides, so basicallly a BG can still be fair

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Twinks never really bothered me. I usually level too fast to be bothered with stopping in a bracket for very long.

    PierceNeck on
    steam_sig.png
    Origin: PierceNeck
    SC2/Diablo - pierceneck#1369
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    eobet wrote: »
    Scroffus wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Scroffus wrote: »
    The thing about inflation is that even though everything costs more to buy on the AH, you can also sell stuff for more on the AH. This means that ingame gold sinks (eg repairs, mounts) become easier to obtain.

    Unless you just bought the game and are playing for the first time.

    I wonder, does this sound about right:

    Killing a monster at level 6 and level 60 takes about the same time. You just use cooler gear, cooler skills and fight cooler monsters at level 60. Could it then be that they calculate that about say 33% of your gold rewards will go to repairs and maintenance to be able to continue killing, 33% for making your character learn more stuff and 33% for equipping your character. That would make gold in vs. gold out pretty even. However, when you reach the end game, you don't have to learn anything new or get new equipment, so suddenly, there's 66% more gold to spend and that's where twinks are born and the economic system fails?

    Actually its even better for people who are just starting. The mass amount of twinking means you can sell low level stuff for high amounts. Imagine your Nubby McNubnub the level 40 rogue. You need a mount (lets assume this is before the mount change thing) so you need to make 100g for a mount. If this was a couple years ago you would have to sell more because stuff sold for less. Wool Cloth (which usually sells for a high price) used to sell for 20s-1g max but now it sells for 5-6g a stack. Its the same for all low level tradeskill items and if you are lucky enough to find a BoE blue/epic then you're in the money (I recently found some cruddy level 40ish mail with a bunch of spi and str and it sold for 100g). The money you have to pay the game stays the same however the money you can earn from other people has increased.

    No, no no. That is breaking the game, since the NPC vendors do not adjust their price according to the inflation.

    In fact, Blizzard did the other way around it seems. I just bought a mount for less than 10 gold now, and I remember it costing around 100 gold back when the game was released? I find this very odd, because as you say, getting a 100 gold is easier today than it ever was...

    Its not really breaking the game, its just something which happens. In any game where you have more gold coming in (from vendoring/quests/gold drops etc) than going out (repairs/mounts/AH fees) you are going to have inflation. It wasn't too bad in Vanilla WoW since you never got gold from quests at 60 and there were no dailys so the only way money was coming in was from gold drops from mobs and vendoring items. There was still a little inflation but nothing as bad as today.

    Also on the topic of twinking: If someone wants to do it, let them. I know some people who twinked because its easier than grinding for a month in a BG to get some pvp items to be competative at 70. There are the people who just want to "pwnz0rz teh nubz" by overgearing, but there are also people who just want to play some pvp where they actually stand a chance of winning.

    Scroffus on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I don't get the twinking to fight other twinks argument, you could save loads of time by not twinking and fight the other non twinks for the same results.

    815165 on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    but it's fun, because class balance is different.

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    I don't get the twinking to fight other twinks argument, you could save loads of time by not twinking and fight the other non twinks for the same results.

    Look if you know you want to stay in a bracket, many people do, certain brackets are hella fun for certain classes. Why would you not want to have the best possible equipment the game will allow you to have? Isn't that what happens at 70??

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Well you can't really draw lines like that, that's what I'm saying. That definition basically says anyone with good gear in lower brackets doesn't know how to play their class. That's retarded.

    No, actually the assumption is that any asshole with a lvl 70 who has nothing better to do than to gear up a lvl 29 character to the extreme, sucks at the game and cannot actually play the game at 70, so they have to torture any lowbies that might happen to wander into a 29 BG to feel better about themselves.

    Yes only assholes twink, I can't imagine anyone wanting to pvp in a certain bracket for fun, that's ridiculous, everyone should only level straight to 70, never pvp, never gear up or anything until they are 70 so that then their opinion will really, really, matter. Pillar humping is so much fun and balanced.

    Yes, twinking encourages EXACTLY THAT. People who twink fucking pollute, corrupt and RUIN the sub 60 brackets. You can't PvP while leveling up anymore if you don't have a group of friends to overcome the retarded no-talent twinks. If everything was fucking fair and people PvPd with gear they acquired on that character everything would be fine.

    Wow you are delirious. Must be easy just to generalize every single person who's ever decked a character out. Why do people like you pretend twinks are only on the opposing faction?? I'm sure their have been twinks on your side as well.

    You are assuming for some really baseless reason that people who don't like twinks only dislike enemy twinks.

    But since nobody has said anything like that ...

    INeedNoSalt on
    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    I think every sensible definition I ever heard holds that having ridiculously awesome gear on the same character that originaly got that gear is not twinking. This is true even if you bought the gear from the Auction house, as long as no other character passed you the money for it.

    Twinking is obtaining items on one character for use on a lower level character, who could/did not go through the effort of obtaining those items. If you struggled to get the gold and bought the items then you are not a twink; merely dedicated.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    the thing is: there's twinking on both sides, so basicallly a BG can still be fair

    In terms of the outcome, maybe. But it's not fun for the people playing a normal character when they have zero chance to win a fair fight against most of the opposing team.

    Zek on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    And about the mount thing; pay more attention. They swapped the prices so instead of 10g riding 90g mount, it's 90g riding 10g mount.

    I think you knew this but it didn't support your flimsy argument so you ignored it.

    Doesn't much matter, he was being flippant. It used to cost 100 gold total to ride a mount, and now it costs 45 gold total. That's his point.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    I think every sensible definition I ever heard holds that having ridiculously awesome gear on the same character that originaly got that gear is not twinking. This is true even if you bought the gear from the Auction house, as long as no other character passed you the money for it.

    Twinking is obtaining items on one character for use on a lower level character, who could/did not go through the effort of obtaining those items. If you struggled to get the gold and bought the items then you are not a twink; merely dedicated.
    Could it not be argued that said person went through the effort of leveling 70 and should be able to use that character/gold however they damn well please as long as they aren't breaking some ToS rule??

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Location: ByakkoyaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    If you encounter a twink, how can you tell if he's actually a twink rather than an alt?

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think every sensible definition I ever heard holds that having ridiculously awesome gear on the same character that original got that gear is not twinking. This is true even if you bought the gear from the Auction house, as long as no other character passed you the money for it.

    Twinking is obtaining items on one character for use on a lower level character, who could/did not go through the effort of obtaining those items. If you struggled to get the gold and bought the items then you are not a twink; merely dedicated.

    Yes, this, exactly.
    Day wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Yes, twinking encourages EXACTLY THAT. People who twink fucking pollute, corrupt and RUIN the sub 60 brackets. You can't PvP while leveling up anymore if you don't have a group of friends to overcome the retarded no-talent twinks. If everything was fucking fair and people PvPd with gear they acquired on that character everything would be fine.

    Wow you are delirious. Must be easy just to generalize every single person who's ever decked a character out. Why do people like you pretend twinks are only on the opposing faction?? I'm sure their have been twinks on your side as well.

    You are assuming for some really baseless reason that people who don't like twinks only dislike enemy twinks.

    But since nobody has said anything like that ...

    Yes, in fact, when I said overcoming the retarded twinks I was talking about people of my own faction.
    Day wrote: »
    Could it not be argued that said person went through the effort of leveling 70 and should be able to use that character/gold however they damn well please as long as they aren't breaking some ToS rule??

    You can use it whatever way you please, but that doesn't mean you're not an asshole for using it to twink.
    Feral wrote: »
    If you encounter a twink, how can you tell if he's actually a twink rather than an alt?

    One thousand more HP than you at lvl 29 where that is the entirety of your HP.

    Mgcw on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008

    You are assuming for some really baseless reason that people who don't like twinks only dislike enemy twinks.

    But since nobody has said anything like that ...

    Well then whats the problem? All your twinks in your battle group suck, there is twinks on both sides, there ARE level requirements on gear limiting what you can equip in a certain bracket, what's the issue you have again??

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    I don't get the twinking to fight other twinks argument, you could save loads of time by not twinking and fight the other non twinks for the same results.

    Look if you know you want to stay in a bracket, many people do, certain brackets are hella fun for certain classes. Why would you not want to have the best possible equipment the game will allow you to have? Isn't that what happens at 70??
    At 70 everyone has the same oppertunities to gain the best gear. I've kept characters in brackets for months without having to twink them, it's called wanting competative PVP instead of just rolling some people who don't stand a chance against you. If you're crappy at PVP that's cool but it's pretty silly to rely on a crutch just to beat people still learning how to play.

    815165 on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »

    You can use it whatever way you please, but that doesn't mean you're not an asshole for using it to twink.

    So I'm an asshole for playing the game the way blizzard designed it. Are you guys reading what you are typing or does it go straight from brain to "submit reply"?

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    I don't get the twinking to fight other twinks argument, you could save loads of time by not twinking and fight the other non twinks for the same results.

    Look if you know you want to stay in a bracket, many people do, certain brackets are hella fun for certain classes. Why would you not want to have the best possible equipment the game will allow you to have? Isn't that what happens at 70??
    At 70 everyone has the same oppertunities to gain the best gear. I've kept characters in brackets for months without having to twink them, it's called wanting competative PVP instead of just rolling some people who don't stand a chance against you. If you're crappy at PVP that's cool but it's pretty silly to rely on a crutch just to beat people still learning how to play.

    Why do you not have the same opportunities to gear at lower levels that I did? We play the same game iirc.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »

    You can use it whatever way you please, but that doesn't mean you're not an asshole for using it to twink.

    So I'm an asshole for playing the game the way blizzard designed it. Are you guys reading what you are typing or does it go straight from brain to "submit reply"?

    It is possibly to be an asshole within the rules of the game, just like it is possible to be a troll within the rules of the forum.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    I don't get the twinking to fight other twinks argument, you could save loads of time by not twinking and fight the other non twinks for the same results.

    Look if you know you want to stay in a bracket, many people do, certain brackets are hella fun for certain classes. Why would you not want to have the best possible equipment the game will allow you to have? Isn't that what happens at 70??
    At 70 everyone has the same oppertunities to gain the best gear. I've kept characters in brackets for months without having to twink them, it's called wanting competative PVP instead of just rolling some people who don't stand a chance against you. If you're crappy at PVP that's cool but it's pretty silly to rely on a crutch just to beat people still learning how to play.

    Why do you not have the same opportunities to gear at lower levels that I did? We play the same game iirc.

    Someone just starting the game with one character does not have the same opportunities as someone with a lvl 70 on the server to funnel them gear and money. This isn't hard to understand.

    Mgcw on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »

    You can use it whatever way you please, but that doesn't mean you're not an asshole for using it to twink.

    So I'm an asshole for playing the game the way blizzard designed it. Are you guys reading what you are typing or does it go straight from brain to "submit reply"?

    It is possibly to be an asshole within the rules of the game, just like it is possible to be a troll within the rules of the forum.

    Yes Mgcw has made that very clear.

    So what makes me an "asshole" then? Because I thought it would be fun to be the best geared I could be regardless of level? Sure are a whole lot of assholes playing the game then.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Why do you not have the same opportunities to gear at lower levels that I did? We play the same game iirc.
    Someone with a level 70 character and a level 29 alt isn't playing the same game as someone levelling their first character.
    They don't have a high level character to obtain the gold and gear for them, they're levelling up. At 70 there is nothing off limits to people unless they don't have the skill to obtain it (PVP weapons, for example). You shouldn't have to have a level 70 character to play level 20 PVP just because some people are insecure.

    815165 on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Regarding "twinking"; there are many twinks without skill who compensate by having a gear advantage. There are some players who can overcome that gear advantage with skill.

    However, especially at the lower brackets, there is very little your average level 19 can do against someone that has 2-3x the HP they should have (or more), avoids or mitigates damage by an order of magnitude better than your average character, and hits like a fucking mac truck.

    That's not another player pvp'ing for the love of the sport. They are a damned Raid Boss at that point, as in some of them actually need 6+ people to kill them. Get two or more such geared characters on a WSG team and your crew doesn't have equal or superior twinked firepower, and you're pretty much fucked.

    Honestly, I don't pvp in the lower brackets, but I'm not blind to the effects such things can have on game balance. I sincerely wish that enchants like Mongoose, leg armour patches and other such gear had a MUCH higher character level / gear level restriction on them. A person who is paying more than what an EPIC MOUNT (ground) costs for a single enchant, or who buys rares, epics, enchants and other bonuses that could probably fund a Flying Epic Mount are clearly doing it because they want to have every advantage as they can. They may suck, they may not, but obviously it's just another method of taking every possible advantage and putting it to use.

    It's poor sportsmanship in my opinion, but it also doesn't affect me, so while I disapprove, I don't feel righteous fury over the matter either.

    If doing that makes people happy, then they're welcome to it, but people here saying that twinking hasn't affected the market are insane. Twinking (and shooting the cost up of 'twink gear', ie; rares that apply to level _9's) has been going on even long before gold flowed like water as it does now, and it'll be going on long past the point that we're getting 50 gold per daily (or whatever absurd numbers we'll see in WLK).

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    I don't get the twinking to fight other twinks argument, you could save loads of time by not twinking and fight the other non twinks for the same results.

    Look if you know you want to stay in a bracket, many people do, certain brackets are hella fun for certain classes. Why would you not want to have the best possible equipment the game will allow you to have? Isn't that what happens at 70??
    At 70 everyone has the same oppertunities to gain the best gear. I've kept characters in brackets for months without having to twink them, it's called wanting competative PVP instead of just rolling some people who don't stand a chance against you. If you're crappy at PVP that's cool but it's pretty silly to rely on a crutch just to beat people still learning how to play.

    Why do you not have the same opportunities to gear at lower levels that I did? We play the same game iirc.

    Someone just starting the game with one character does not have the same opportunities as someone with a lvl 70 on the server to funnel them gear and money. This isn't hard to understand.

    He has the same opportunity as you to level a character to 70, then create another to twink. A new player should be aiming for 70 anyway, I find it hard to imagine someone joining just to PvP at 29.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Yes Mgcw has made that very clear.

    I think we can do without the name calling.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    I don't get the twinking to fight other twinks argument, you could save loads of time by not twinking and fight the other non twinks for the same results.

    Look if you know you want to stay in a bracket, many people do, certain brackets are hella fun for certain classes. Why would you not want to have the best possible equipment the game will allow you to have? Isn't that what happens at 70??
    At 70 everyone has the same oppertunities to gain the best gear. I've kept characters in brackets for months without having to twink them, it's called wanting competative PVP instead of just rolling some people who don't stand a chance against you. If you're crappy at PVP that's cool but it's pretty silly to rely on a crutch just to beat people still learning how to play.

    Why do you not have the same opportunities to gear at lower levels that I did? We play the same game iirc.

    Someone just starting the game with one character does not have the same opportunities as someone with a lvl 70 on the server to funnel them gear and money. This isn't hard to understand.

    Sure they do, it's called making friends and/or researching how to make gold at that level. It may take a little more time but it also took "person A" a little more time to level their first character to 70.

    Where do you draw the line? You never send your alts bags, gold, or gear? I find that hard to believe. The only difference is that a twinks endgame is at a different level than yours. Everyone has the ability to do the same things in this game.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
This discussion has been closed.