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SE++ Game On Threads

ShimShamShimSham Registered User regular
Okay, I'll start off by saying I was gone all weekend and missed all the debate threads about the GnT reform. So I just don't know if this was brought up.

However from what I can gather, the reason for doing away with the Chat Thread was to make GnT about GnT and Whippy noted that the Chat Thread was just SE++ Lite in GnT.

That's all well and fine, keep GnT about Games and Technology and let chat take place in the Chat Forum known as SE++ in an attempt to unify the whole forum and let subforums be defined by thread topic rather than community.

Well what I see wrong with this is that you took the proper steps at GnT for that goal, but when you still have "Game On" threads like the 360 Game On threads at SE++, it's terribly counter-productive.

_____________________________________________________________

The reason they give for having Game On topics is because SE++ers want to play 360 games with other SE++ers, rather than having to deal with GnT people.

The reason there was a GnT Chat thread was for GnTers to talk to other GnTers about offtopic things without dealing with SE++ people.

What's the difference here? I'm dying for someone to explain that.

_____________________________________________________________

That on top of the other, less-popular, subforums still having chat threads despite us having a chat forum.

I'm fine with off-topic posting at SE, and I'm fine with no chat thread at GnT.

But when a double standard is held that does bother me as well as numerous others.

Tl;dr - If you're going to work on reform, you can't just concentrate on one area and call it quits.

ShimSham on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited September 2006
    I have a strange feeling this will probably be locked... but even so, I have to agree with you. Were this reform taken all the way, with all off-topic banter moved to SE++, and all videogame and techie stuff moved to G&T, it would have been much better.

    syndalis on
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    ShimShamShimSham Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    syndalis wrote:
    I have a strange feeling this will probably be locked... but even so, I have to agree with you. Were this reform taken all the way, with all off-topic banter moved to SE++, and all videogame and techie stuff moved to G&T, it would have been much better.
    Yeah I have a feeling it might be locked and ignored too but I at least wanted to speak up. I care about this forum enough to where I wouldn't feel right if I didn't speak up.

    Whippy said he wanted a forum the higherups could be proud of, not a GnT they could be proud of.

    ShimSham on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited September 2006
    It's generally been seen that anything (including games) can be talked about in SE, but that posters should recognise that these posts don't have the rules keeping them on topic that they would have in the on topic forums.

    Tube on
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    ShimShamShimSham Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    It's generally been seen that anything (including games) can be talked about in SE, but that posters should recognise that these posts don't have the rules keeping them on topic that they would have in the on topic forums.
    Then why are gaming topics made at SE generally locked and redirected to GnT, but the ones like the Game On threads that are all about community are allowed to stay at SE?

    Those threads promote the same kind of cliques the GnT Chat Thread did.


    Like this
    http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1073833828

    It's a gaming topic and you locked it and said take it to GnT. Why do the Game On threads get exception?

    If what you said were actually practiced then you could have let the thread go and just let it go off-topic if people wanted it to.

    ShimSham on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    It's generally been seen that anything (including games) can be talked about in SE, but that posters should recognise that these posts don't have the rules keeping them on topic that they would have in the on topic forums.
    Then why are gaming topics made at SE generally locked and redirected to GnT, but the ones like the Game On threads that are all about community are allowed to stay at SE?

    Those threads promote the same kind of cliques the GnT Chat Thread did.


    Like this
    http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1073833828

    It's a gaming topic and you locked it and said take it to GnT. Why do the Game On threads get exception?
    Oh lord, not that topic again. It was locked because:

    a.) It was a shitty topic that doesn't really have much of a place on the forums at all, and
    b.) See a.

    I wouldn't really care one way or the other if the SE++ Game Ons got moved/merged with G&T's. You'd just end up with a few pissed SE'ers.

    korodullin on
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    ShimShamShimSham Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    korodullin wrote:
    Oh lord, not that topic again. It was locked because:

    a.) It was a shitty topic that doesn't really have much of a place on the forums at all, and
    b.) See a.

    No it was locked because
    Try it in G&T instead.

    and that's just one example.

    ShimSham on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    Then why are gaming topics made at SE generally locked and redirected to GnT,

    They generally aren't. That one was locked because it was a shitty thread, and I'm about eighty percent sure that Bamelin was seeing how bad of a thread he could make.

    Tube on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    korodullin wrote:
    Oh lord, not that topic again. It was locked because:

    a.) It was a shitty topic that doesn't really have much of a place on the forums at all, and
    b.) See a.

    No it was locked because
    Try it in G&T instead.

    and that's just one example.
    It was further explained later on that the topic was locked not just because it didn't really belong in SE, it was another shitty topic in a series of shitty topics Bamelin made in a misguided effort to "acclimate" himself to SE. It of course doesn't help that the topic wouldn't really have flown in G&T either.

    korodullin on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2006
    I think it was just a snide comment.

    How can anything be off topic in an off topic chat forum?

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    ShimShamShimSham Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    Then why are gaming topics made at SE generally locked and redirected to GnT,

    They generally aren't. That one was locked because it was a shitty thread, and I'm about eighty percent sure that Bamelin was seeing how bad of a thread he could make.
    Then why didn't you say in your lock post that it was a shitty thread, rather than "take it to GnT?"

    I don't want to focus so much on that one particular topic as it seems to not be the best example but it was the most recent example and kept me from searching back to who knows where in topic pages.

    ShimSham on
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    xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Nothing really to add here, other than, I agree with ShimSham.

    xWonderboyx on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Guys, shitty threads are not allowed in SE++.

    Shitty gaming threads may or may not be allowed in G&T. I don't know. Tube doesn't know. Neither of us are G&T mods.

    And yes, Bamelin was just trying to be as obnoxious as possible.

    Thanatos on
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    ShimShamShimSham Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I think it was just a snide comment.

    How can anything be off topic in an off topic chat forum?
    The off-topic forums are made to discuss things that we don't already have forums for.

    ShimSham on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited September 2006
    And one last thing before I stop posting in this thread:

    Debate and Discourse kept their chat thread. Is that because Debate and Discourse is a more tolerated group of people, or because an off topic discussion thread is crucial to their community?

    And if it was the PEOPLE that caused the chat thread to have to go away, and not the existance of the chat thread... why not make with the jailings / bannings of those who were hurting G&T?

    syndalis on
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    ShimShamShimSham Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Thanatos wrote:
    Guys, shitty threads are not allowed in SE++.

    Shitty gaming threads may or may not be allowed in G&T. I don't know. Tube doesn't know. Neither of us are G&T mods.

    And yes, Bamelin was just trying to be as obnoxious as possible.
    Okay, Bamelin was being obnoxious, bad example.

    I'd rather focus more on what I stated in the OP rather than that one incident that I cited when CT locked a thread for reasons other than the ones he stated in the lock post.

    ShimSham on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    Then why didn't you say in your lock post that it was a shitty thread, rather than "take it to GnT?"

    Because it might be considered a less shitty thread in G&T? As a flip remark? Sarcasm? All of these things are possibilities.

    Tube on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    The off-topic forums are made to discuss things that we don't already have forums for.

    No, they're made to discuss anything, without being bound to a topic (within reason).

    Tube on
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    LightReaperLightReaper Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    syndalis wrote:
    And one last thing before I stop posting in this thread:

    Debate and Discourse kept their chat thread. Is that because Debate and Discourse is a more tolerated group of people, or because an off topic discussion thread is crucial to their community?

    IIRC, someone mentioned how D&D's chat thread was about general discussion and debating; though i've not seen much evidence of that.

    LightReaper on
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    xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    syndalis wrote:
    And one last thing before I stop posting in this thread:

    Debate and Discourse kept their chat thread. Is that because Debate and Discourse is a more tolerated group of people, or because an off topic discussion thread is crucial to their community?

    And if it was the PEOPLE that caused the chat thread to have to go away, and not the existance of the chat thread... why not make with the jailings / bannings of those who were hurting G&T?
    Yeah, I was pretty active in the chat thread, and I never once felt like new people were being left out. I was once a newbie to the chat thread, but no one made fun of me or anything for jumping in and posting. I never saw that happening either, so I never knew what the problem was.

    xWonderboyx on
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    ShimShamShimSham Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    syndalis wrote:
    And one last thing before I stop posting in this thread:

    Debate and Discourse kept their chat thread. Is that because Debate and Discourse is a more tolerated group of people, or because an off topic discussion thread is crucial to their community?

    IIRC, someone mentioned how D&D's chat thread was about general discussion and debating; though i've not seen much evidence of that.
    That's because there is no evidence of that.

    I'm going to see Jackass now.

    ShimSham on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited September 2006
    syndalis wrote:
    And one last thing before I stop posting in this thread:

    Debate and Discourse kept their chat thread. Is that because Debate and Discourse is a more tolerated group of people, or because an off topic discussion thread is crucial to their community?

    And if it was the PEOPLE that caused the chat thread to have to go away, and not the existance of the chat thread... why not make with the jailings / bannings of those who were hurting G&T?

    I can't answer this, but I'm sure a D&D mod will be around soon.

    Tube on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    That's because there is no evidence of that.

    ...and actually, I think I'm going to lock this thread, because it's clear to me that it didn't really have a purpose, and you were just trying to stir up trouble. As evidenced by the fact that you keep changing your mind as to what the problem is. I'm sorry that you missed the change, but Jesus Christ I am so sick of discussing it that you can't imagine, and I'm afraid you'll have to live with that.

    My PM inbox is always open.

    Tube on
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    NartwakNartwak Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    What a surprise.

    Nartwak on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited September 2006
    Nartwak wrote:
    What a surprise.

    That yet another redundant thread on this topic is being locked? Indeed.

    Tube on
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    The CelestialThe Celestial Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    It's like a pack of wolves just waiting for one of their number to make the first fruitless leap at the enemy so they can follow as he's slaughtered.

    The Celestial on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    I think it was just a snide comment.

    How can anything be off topic in an off topic chat forum?
    The off-topic forums are made to discuss things that we don't already have forums for.

    That's wrong.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    I think it was just a snide comment.

    How can anything be off topic in an off topic chat forum?
    The off-topic forums are made to discuss things that we don't already have forums for.

    That's wrong.

    it's hard to argue that PA's definition of an "Off topic" forum is held as the standard for 90% of internet communities.


    usually, when people see "off topic" they regard it as "general discussion."

    perhaps this helps to explain why many feel SE++ is a failure, as it does not confine to the norms of what many expect it to be.


    interstingly enough, I've noticed throughout the discussions in the past week that PA essentially combines what many forums have as a "General" subforum and a "Serious discussion and Debate" subforum into our D&D

    Lanz on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited September 2006
    I don't think that not comforming to norms constitutes a failure.

    Tube on
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I don't think that not comforming to norms constitutes a failure.

    I was merely explaining one position is all.

    Lanz on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I am actually in favor of SE++ Game On's being redirected to G&T. Who gives a shit about quality of the thread - someone will remake it in G&T.

    Henroid on
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    BranduilBranduil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Tl;dr - If you're going to work on reform, you can't just concentrate on one area and call it quits.

    Sure they can. After all, this isn't a democracy, the only thing that matters is what they say matters.

    Branduil on
    mcc for admin

    I blame Whippy
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited September 2006
    ShimSham wrote:
    I think it was just a snide comment.

    How can anything be off topic in an off topic chat forum?
    The off-topic forums are made to discuss things that we don't already have forums for.

    That's wrong.

    By this logic, however, there is no reason for on-topic forums, as they can be discussed freely and to completeness in SE++.


    PAforums.jpg

    This is where I have issues. The SE++ forum, in being all encompassing, is granted the ability to have discussion unbidden by any rules or other forums. It creates the mentality that the PA forums are the SE++ community, instead of any other mentality.

    The forum, ideally, should be set up like this:

    PAforums2.jpg

    There are some areas of overlap, but SE++ doesn't take precedence as the end-all, be-all forum. It still acts as the social heart of the forum, where everyone can mingle.. But people are still directed to the on-topic sub-forums when it just makes sense.

    At this point, we have a chat forum, inside which are game-on topics. IMHO, I wonder if "Game on" should be its own forum, where all the PA forumers can go to intermingle and get their game on with other PA forumers, in a neutral environment with no stigmas of "Oh, he's a G&Ter" or "He's from D&D" or any of that tripe.

    Athenor on
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    BranduilBranduil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    This is where I have issues. The SE++ forum, in being all encompassing, is granted the ability to have discussion unbidden by any rules or other forums. It creates the mentality that the PA forums are the SE++ community, instead of any other mentality.

    That's what the powers that be want, though.

    Branduil on
    mcc for admin

    I blame Whippy
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Athenor wrote:
    IMHO, I wonder if "Game on" should be its own forum, where all the PA forumers can go to intermingle and get their game on with other PA forumers, in a neutral environment with no stigmas of "Oh, he's a G&Ter" or "He's from D&D" or any of that tripe.
    I don't think we need a "Game On" subforum. G&T handles it just fine, and I'm trying to track the pesky threads in that sticky.

    Henroid on
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    AroducAroduc regular
    edited September 2006
    What if instead of Venn diagrams, they were Peirce diagrams and included the probability statements of any given subject appearing in any given place?

    Or even worse, Karnaugh maps, and the entire forum was just a boolean construct? What then?

    Aroduc on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2006
    Athenor wrote:
    ShimSham wrote:
    I think it was just a snide comment.

    How can anything be off topic in an off topic chat forum?
    The off-topic forums are made to discuss things that we don't already have forums for.

    That's wrong.

    By this logic, however, there is no reason for on-topic forums, as they can be discussed freely and to completeness in SE++.


    PAforums.jpg

    This is where I have issues. The SE++ forum, in being all encompassing, is granted the ability to have discussion unbidden by any rules or other forums. It creates the mentality that the PA forums are the SE++ community, instead of any other mentality.

    The forum, ideally, should be set up like this:

    PAforums2.jpg

    There are some areas of overlap, but SE++ doesn't take precedence as the end-all, be-all forum. It still acts as the social heart of the forum, where everyone can mingle.. But people are still directed to the on-topic sub-forums when it just makes sense.

    At this point, we have a chat forum, inside which are game-on topics. IMHO, I wonder if "Game on" should be its own forum, where all the PA forumers can go to intermingle and get their game on with other PA forumers, in a neutral environment with no stigmas of "Oh, he's a G&Ter" or "He's from D&D" or any of that tripe.

    SE you have no assurance that your thread on Megaman will not turn into a 30 page arguement between guys about leeching. In G&T, you have that assurance.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    NeuralFizzNeuralFizz Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I must add something here:

    Don't think that Shimsham is trying to stir up trouble. I, of course, am not in the man's brain, but as powerllama so gracefully put it, "It's Shimsham. Fucking shimsham."

    I think he's actually trying to have an intelligent discussion here.

    NeuralFizz on
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Aroduc wrote:
    What if instead of Venn diagrams, they were Peirce diagrams and included the probability statements of any given subject appearing in any given place?

    Or even worse, Karnaugh maps, and the entire forum was just a boolean construct? What then?

    I don't think I can do those in Paint in less than 5 minutes.

    You'll notice the second graph isn't labeed because.. well. Paint sucks at doing text, apparently.

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited September 2006
    SE you have no assurance that your thread on Megaman will not turn into a 30 page arguement between guys about leeching. In G&T, you have that assurance.

    So what you are saying is that it is up to the general populace, not the mods, to dictate where they want the discussion to go? With no guidelines whatsoever (if they post it in SE, I mean)?

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    BranduilBranduil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Aroduc wrote:
    What if instead of Venn diagrams, they were Peirce diagrams and included the probability statements of any given subject appearing in any given place?

    Or even worse, Karnaugh maps, and the entire forum was just a boolean construct? What then?

    Just sprinkle on some sprite girls and everything would be fine.

    Branduil on
    mcc for admin

    I blame Whippy
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