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Rare had Avatars before Miis.

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    NevaNeva Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    When ever I tried to come up with a reply to this thread, I keep on thinking about the City of Heroes or Second Life character creators and it makes me wonder why anyone would care if Nintendo copied Rare, or if Microsoft copied Nintendo. Maybe all these console innovations seem less innovative and impressive because I've been playing PC games for so long.

    Neva on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Second Life and COH character creators are unsuitable and unfeasible for a console market and an unfair comparison.

    The_Scarab on
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    NevaNeva Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    The Second Life and COH character creators are unsuitable and unfeasible for a console market and an unfair comparison.

    I know that. In 10 years consoles will have avatar systems like PC games of today, and our children will take on arms in the name of their console and fight for who's system came first and which was more innovative.

    Neva on
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    devolvedevolve Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aoi wrote: »
    Good lord man, could you read any more into what they're saying? How often does anyone give credit in this business? They didn't shit on Nintendo, they just stated that they had been working on the idea for a while too, and that they may have even been working on them prior to the unveiling of Nintendo. Again, Nintendo weren't the first company ever to do something like this either, but you don't see them giving credit to the PC industry, or other console manufacturers for it (or rumble, or analog, etc). Yeesh. Ideas overlap. They always have.


    Thank you for being the voice of reason.

    devolve on
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    artooartoo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    agoaj wrote: »
    Wow, those 64DDers are better than Miis.

    I agree, I really want to buy a 64DD.... If only I had 500 dollars to blow.

    artoo on
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    DigDug2000DigDug2000 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aoi wrote: »
    Good lord man, could you read any more into what they're saying? How often does anyone give credit in this business? They didn't shit on Nintendo, they just stated that they had been working on the idea for a while too, and that they may have even been working on them prior to the unveiling of Nintendo. Again, Nintendo weren't the first company ever to do something like this either, but you don't see them giving credit to the PC industry, or other console manufacturers for it (or rumble, or analog, etc). Yeesh. Ideas overlap. They always have.
    Isn't that what I said? No one ever gives any credit in this industry. I don't give a shit who had the idea first. The only reasons I can think not to give some sorta acknowledgment is if you want to snub someone else, or if you've got some sort of superiority complex.

    Sorry if I made it seem like Rare were the only people in the world with the problem, because it DOES show up everywhere. No one gives credit. I work in science, and ideas overlap there too. And when you realize that someone's just published something that overlaps with what you were working on, you cite it and use it to strengthen your publication. You don't say, "We were working on this before the publication came out, so we're not copying."

    DigDug2000 on
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    GyralGyral Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sorry, but these companies don't "give credit" because they live in a world where ideas are valued for their profit margins and for the fact that borrowing new tech ideas leads to potential lawsuits. I mean, how many lawsuit have we seen over the past ten years over things like rumble technology. These are companies who don't want credit - they want money.

    Gyral on
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    OmeksOmeks Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    agoaj wrote: »
    Wow, those 64DDers are better than Miis.

    Except when putting real-life faces on them.

    That 64DooD who had the kid's face wrapped around its head looked horrifying.

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    RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Nice of Rare to inform us of this.

    Rohan on
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    NevaNeva Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Rohan wrote: »
    Nice of Rare to inform us of this.

    To be fair, it was in response to all the weenies claiming Avatars are a rip off of Nintendo's Miis.

    Neva on
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    RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Neva wrote: »
    Rohan wrote: »
    Nice of Rare to inform us of this.

    To be fair, it was in response to all the weenies claiming Avatars are a rip off of Nintendo's Miis.

    That is pretty fair, but I note how in these situations, the timing of the conception of the idea is always... vague. In this case, Rare says they thought of it before the Wii launched. How far back in time are we talking here? That's as general a period as things get!

    Nobody cares, of course, but it's something I always tend to notice.

    Rohan on
    ...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.

    Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I totally thought of the idea of a multilingual, open content encyclopedia project years before Wikipedia appeared.

    I'm not really going to sue them for stealing my idea or anything. I just thought everybody should know that I thought of it first.

    The Wolfman on
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    DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I totally thought of the idea of a multilingual, open content encyclopedia project years before Wikipedia appeared.

    I'm not really going to sue them for stealing my idea or anything. I just thought everybody should know that I thought of it first.

    That's my idea you stole there, champ.

    Djiem on
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    randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Rohan wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    Rohan wrote: »
    Nice of Rare to inform us of this.

    To be fair, it was in response to all the weenies claiming Avatars are a rip off of Nintendo's Miis.

    That is pretty fair, but I note how in these situations, the timing of the conception of the idea is always... vague. In this case, Rare says they thought of it before the Wii launched. How far back in time are we talking here? That's as general a period as things get!

    Nobody cares, of course, but it's something I always tend to notice.
    I don't think it matters if they thought of it before or not. The fact is they are doing something that was proven successful that someone else did. Doesn't matter who came up with it. Not like Nintendo is saying they invented avatars either.

    randombattle on
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    Duchess ProzacDuchess Prozac Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hey, I had the idea of a 3d fighter that looked like an anime several years before the term cell shading was coined.

    I also had the idea back in '96 of an open city populated with zombies that a non soldier had to survive in for several days before rescue which gave him chance to get to the root of the infestation.

    Both of these ideas of have been bought into being in some form or another yet I you don't hear me proclaiming to have invented them. For one I can't proof this and as I'm not a well known developer with an excellent track record, there is no point in telling people.

    I'm sure if I went around telling people I invented cell shading people would have trouble believing me. So I just keep it to myself. I see no point in Rare ever mentioning this as they are not exactly known for their insight since MS bought them and this makes their claims as credible as my own.

    Duchess Prozac on
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    scootchscootch Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    who care who came up with it first, they both suck.
    Avartars is going to be just as lame as the Miis with the same usage restrictions for 3rd parties.

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    LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hey, I had the idea of a 3d fighter that looked like an anime several years before the term cell shading was coined.

    I also had the idea back in '96 of an open city populated with zombies that a non soldier had to survive in for several days before rescue which gave him chance to get to the root of the infestation.

    Both of these ideas of have been bought into being in some form or another yet I you don't hear me proclaiming to have invented them. For one I can't proof this and as I'm not a well known developer with an excellent track record, there is no point in telling people.

    I'm sure if I went around telling people I invented cell shading people would have trouble believing me. So I just keep it to myself. I see no point in Rare ever mentioning this as they are not exactly known for their insight since MS bought them and this makes their claims as credible as my own.

    Uh, the point is pretty clear and pointed out slightly above your point. It's a response to "Avatars, more like stealing Nintendos brand new idea". Now whether this is something worth trying to disprove is the real question. I mean it's pretty self evident to pretty much anyone with any sense that the concept of avatars is pretty damn old and well trod ground.

    Leitner on
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    RocketlexRocketlex Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think "coming up with the idea" and "trying to cash in on the popularity of the idea" are two seperate concepts. They may not have taken the idea from Nintendo, but I find it hard to believe that their choice to implement it wasn't based at least in part on how successful Nintendo's been with a similar concept.

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    RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I don't think it matters if they thought of it before or not. The fact is they are doing something that was proven successful that someone else did. Doesn't matter who came up with it. Not like Nintendo is saying they invented avatars either.
    Nobody cares, of course

    Rohan on
    ...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.

    Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
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    RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Buffy: And I don't care.
    Giles: Then why are you here?
    Buffy: To tell you that... I don't care, which... I don't, and... have now told you, so... bye.

    RainbowDespair on
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    FreddyDFreddyD Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Custom characters have been around forever. What makes Miis interesting is how they are attached to a console instead of a game. They also fit the image associated with the Wii. Given what I've seen so far I'm not sure I can say that about Avatars yet. The XBox caters heavily to the 13-25 male demographic, which favors more flashy, stylized designs, weapons, muscles, boobs... It's easy to imagine a game starring Miis selling a million on the Wii, but could you honestly imagine a game starring Avatars selling as many copies as Gears of War on the XBox 360?

    FreddyD on
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    LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    FreddyD wrote: »
    Custom characters have been around forever. What makes Miis interesting is how they are attached to a console instead of a game. They also fit the image associated with the Wii. Given what I've seen so far I'm not sure I can say that about Avatars yet. The XBox caters heavily to the 13-25 male demographic, which favors more flashy, stylized designs, weapons, muscles, boobs... It's easy to imagine a game starring Miis selling a million on the Wii, but could you honestly imagine a game starring Avatars selling as many copies as Gears of War on the XBox 360?

    I don't think that's the real point of the avatars, rather they are an extension of the user identity of each person on live. A further level of customisation and obvious visual indicator of the player. Think of them like well 3D avatars (as in the images next to each poster). Something which is surprisingly popular, I mean look at how integral it's become to the online experience for your average user. Especially so if they add the MMORPG esque better equipment drive aspect by connecting achievements to new pieces or medals you can stick on your guy.

    In short if anything it’s likely going to be very different to the Miis, in that whilst they are used for a few select games as characters, avatars are going to be a key method of representing yourself to everyone else on live.

    Leitner on
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    AlienCowThatMoosAlienCowThatMoos Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    artoo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Ideas are worthless. Execution is everything.

    Nintendo executed on their plans first. Therefore they had Miis before Rare.


    Having a concept, or a plan or an idea is nothing until it is implemented.

    I agree, I think them saying "But we had it first!" is kinda childish.

    I hate those ads I see on late night tv for patent kits. "I thought of the clapper first. I should be a millionaire!"

    Fuck you average citizen. You think that you can just have an idea, do nothing with it and demand a cut of the profits when someone else actually puts in some effort on the same thing? If life worked like that then our species won't advance any further than we already have; There's no incentive to innovate if all the benefit goes to some douche-bag who called firsties years ago.

    You do nothing, you get nothing.

    AlienCowThatMoos on
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    FoodFood Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I came up with pretending to have come up with something years ago like five years ago! Where's my cut of this thread?

    Food on
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    NevaNeva Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I don't think a lot of you understand what this is about.

    Neva on
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    BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So hey when do I get these avatars on my 360? Is it still "fall" or what?

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    greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I had the idea of Multigame avatars before the wii too. But I then decided it was a bad idea because some games have more resources available to the main protagonist than others and the art wouldn't always matched. Heh I never thought that Nintendo would "solve" that problem by making hideous avatars that lack even the the most basic details. (Like hands and feet)

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    RocketlexRocketlex Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    greeble wrote: »
    I had the idea of Multigame avatars before the wii too. But I then decided it was a bad idea because some games have more resources available to the main protagonist than others and the art wouldn't always matched. Heh I never thought that Nintendo would "solve" that problem by making hideous avatars that lack even the the most basic details. (Like hands and feet)

    To be fair, I think the idea is that the individual games can fill these blanks in as they see fit. It's just that not many do.

    Rocketlex on
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