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[WAR] Healer Archetypes: You are a hat.
Sterica
YesRegistered User, Moderator mod
YesRegistered User, Moderator mod
Making a thread for 20 classes would probably not go over well with the mods, so let's see if four threads for each Archetype work.
The Three Types of Hats
While the game has six healing classes, there are three main mechanics that drive these classes. Basically, three types of hats for each side. They are not, however, simple mirrors. While a Zealot and Runepriest may share mechanic and many spells, there many small differences that add up to make them fairly distinct from each other.
Yin and Yang
The Archmage (Order) and Shaman (Destruction) share a back-and-forth mechanic that empowers one aspect of their spellbook by repeatedly using a different aspect. Each time you cast heal, you build a point towards damage spells. You can cast a slightly more powerful damage spell right then (which resets your points) or keep cast healing spells to build a max of five points. Each point reduces the cast time of the affected spell by 20% (so yes, five points means an instant cast) or it'll increases the potency of an instant cast spell by 5% per point.
These classes are good if you like damage and healing, but don't want to be forced into either. You aren't severely penalized if you just heal or just hurt people, you simply miss out on the bonus points. A damage dealer can toss out nukes and drop a fat heal when needed, or a healer can focus on keeping allies alive while peppering the field with potent DoTs. The classes are flexible and have become fairly popular because of it.
Marking
Zealots and Runepriests can "mark" allies, which not only provide an hour-long buff, but unlock unique spells the marked player can use.
I have no played either class extensively, but most people say that they are more like traditional healers. Whereas the other healers have masteries divided into healing, damage and (de)buffing, these two focus on AoE, Direct and (de)buffng. I've heard dps is lower, but I've also heard that it's potent when supplemented with their various buffs and debuffs.
Melee
For the Warrior Priest and Disciple of Khaine, healing requires a second resource: Righteous Fury or Soul Essence depending on class. While this resource regens out of combat, in combat you will either have to use your special melee moves (or a weak ranged move) to regen. The only other way is to convert your Action Points into the resource. Both classes have standard heals and in particular have excellent group healing as they get into later levels. However, they several of their heals involve stealing life from enemies, which sets up a variety of options. You an focus on your more group-oriented healing, or have the option of healing while dishing out damage at the same time. And of course both classes have potent damage capabilities along with several auras they can activate to buff their group.
This is a good option for people who want an excuse to hurt people. In most cases, you can't get away with just healing and HAVE to damage people. You even have the option to keep on damaging while you heal. But, the class has several requirements for healing (can't melee an enemy? No healing!), so if you ALWAYS want to be able to someone out of deep shit, this isn't the class for you. Many times will you sit on the sidelines, unable to heal a guy because going in to melee would be suicide.
Stats for Hats
Willpower: A very important stat. This increases our raw healing. Make sure to get plenty. One caveat, and it's big: WILLPOWER DOES NOT WORK ON LIFE-STEALING EFFECTS. THE ONLY REAL WAY TO IMPROVE LIFESTEALING IS TO INCREASE YOUR DAMAGE. IF YOU PLAN ON HEALING A LOT VIA LIFESTEAL, AVOID WILLPOWER.
Toughness: As a healer, you will be targeted. Toughness reduces damage taken. Pretty self-explanatory.
Armor: Less important for the ranged guys, but Disciples and Warriors will need to keep this in the back of their heads, as they will be easier for enemy melee to reach.
Strength: Useless for all except Warriors and Disciples. Increases damage AND, as I said before, increases the healing your life-stealing skills will do.
Intelligence: Damage boosting for Zealots, Shaman, Runepriests and Archmagi. You may or may not want this depending on your playstyle/build.
Intiative: Burst damage can end you quickly. While toughness is good for reducing damage, Intiative reduces the chance you'll be crit. Keeps your incoming damage more stable and predictable, which is good.
Weapon Skill: For Warriors and Disciples. Armor pen will allow you to take down tanks more easily. Armor also will reduce your life-steals, so this is another way to bolster such healing.
Resistances: Bright Wizards deal elemental damage.
General Tips
A hotkey to target yourself is quite useful. Something that is annoying, however, is that Middle-Mouse buttons do not seem to respond if you are holding down your Right Mouse button. I wanted that as my self-target key, but alas, it's not very viable in many cases. Another good one is to make sure your previous Friendly target key is accessible. When you finish healing yourself, you may want to get your focus back on a tank or other guy taking heat.
Potions that restore Action Points are useful. Pretty common, lower cooldown and allow you to still guzzle health pots. Don't ignore them!
Every healer has a detaunt that will reduce the damage they take from a single target by half so long as they don't further attack that target. These are incredibly useful and work in RvR! DoTs will not break the effect...at least if you casted the DoT before the detaunt. If someone is on you, a smart thing to do is to detaunt before you heal. And make sure the person you are detaunting isn't the focus of the attack unless things are dire for you. You want to help take down that guy, so detaunt someone else if it looks like he'll go down quickly.
Every class gets a debuff removal spell. Don't forget it. Also: it seems that root effects have a 1.5 second minimum duration. You will not be able to remove it until 1.5 seconds have passed. So, if you fail to remove that root...try again.
Watch your six: you cannot walk through any player, so enemies can trap you if they sneak in from behind.
More to come...maybe.
The Three Types of Hats
While the game has six healing classes, there are three main mechanics that drive these classes. Basically, three types of hats for each side. They are not, however, simple mirrors. While a Zealot and Runepriest may share mechanic and many spells, there many small differences that add up to make them fairly distinct from each other.
Yin and Yang
The Archmage (Order) and Shaman (Destruction) share a back-and-forth mechanic that empowers one aspect of their spellbook by repeatedly using a different aspect. Each time you cast heal, you build a point towards damage spells. You can cast a slightly more powerful damage spell right then (which resets your points) or keep cast healing spells to build a max of five points. Each point reduces the cast time of the affected spell by 20% (so yes, five points means an instant cast) or it'll increases the potency of an instant cast spell by 5% per point.
These classes are good if you like damage and healing, but don't want to be forced into either. You aren't severely penalized if you just heal or just hurt people, you simply miss out on the bonus points. A damage dealer can toss out nukes and drop a fat heal when needed, or a healer can focus on keeping allies alive while peppering the field with potent DoTs. The classes are flexible and have become fairly popular because of it.
Marking
Zealots and Runepriests can "mark" allies, which not only provide an hour-long buff, but unlock unique spells the marked player can use.
I have no played either class extensively, but most people say that they are more like traditional healers. Whereas the other healers have masteries divided into healing, damage and (de)buffing, these two focus on AoE, Direct and (de)buffng. I've heard dps is lower, but I've also heard that it's potent when supplemented with their various buffs and debuffs.
Melee
For the Warrior Priest and Disciple of Khaine, healing requires a second resource: Righteous Fury or Soul Essence depending on class. While this resource regens out of combat, in combat you will either have to use your special melee moves (or a weak ranged move) to regen. The only other way is to convert your Action Points into the resource. Both classes have standard heals and in particular have excellent group healing as they get into later levels. However, they several of their heals involve stealing life from enemies, which sets up a variety of options. You an focus on your more group-oriented healing, or have the option of healing while dishing out damage at the same time. And of course both classes have potent damage capabilities along with several auras they can activate to buff their group.
This is a good option for people who want an excuse to hurt people. In most cases, you can't get away with just healing and HAVE to damage people. You even have the option to keep on damaging while you heal. But, the class has several requirements for healing (can't melee an enemy? No healing!), so if you ALWAYS want to be able to someone out of deep shit, this isn't the class for you. Many times will you sit on the sidelines, unable to heal a guy because going in to melee would be suicide.
Stats for Hats
Willpower: A very important stat. This increases our raw healing. Make sure to get plenty. One caveat, and it's big: WILLPOWER DOES NOT WORK ON LIFE-STEALING EFFECTS. THE ONLY REAL WAY TO IMPROVE LIFESTEALING IS TO INCREASE YOUR DAMAGE. IF YOU PLAN ON HEALING A LOT VIA LIFESTEAL, AVOID WILLPOWER.
Toughness: As a healer, you will be targeted. Toughness reduces damage taken. Pretty self-explanatory.
Armor: Less important for the ranged guys, but Disciples and Warriors will need to keep this in the back of their heads, as they will be easier for enemy melee to reach.
Strength: Useless for all except Warriors and Disciples. Increases damage AND, as I said before, increases the healing your life-stealing skills will do.
Intelligence: Damage boosting for Zealots, Shaman, Runepriests and Archmagi. You may or may not want this depending on your playstyle/build.
Intiative: Burst damage can end you quickly. While toughness is good for reducing damage, Intiative reduces the chance you'll be crit. Keeps your incoming damage more stable and predictable, which is good.
Weapon Skill: For Warriors and Disciples. Armor pen will allow you to take down tanks more easily. Armor also will reduce your life-steals, so this is another way to bolster such healing.
Resistances: Bright Wizards deal elemental damage.
General Tips
A hotkey to target yourself is quite useful. Something that is annoying, however, is that Middle-Mouse buttons do not seem to respond if you are holding down your Right Mouse button. I wanted that as my self-target key, but alas, it's not very viable in many cases. Another good one is to make sure your previous Friendly target key is accessible. When you finish healing yourself, you may want to get your focus back on a tank or other guy taking heat.
Potions that restore Action Points are useful. Pretty common, lower cooldown and allow you to still guzzle health pots. Don't ignore them!
Every healer has a detaunt that will reduce the damage they take from a single target by half so long as they don't further attack that target. These are incredibly useful and work in RvR! DoTs will not break the effect...at least if you casted the DoT before the detaunt. If someone is on you, a smart thing to do is to detaunt before you heal. And make sure the person you are detaunting isn't the focus of the attack unless things are dire for you. You want to help take down that guy, so detaunt someone else if it looks like he'll go down quickly.
Every class gets a debuff removal spell. Don't forget it. Also: it seems that root effects have a 1.5 second minimum duration. You will not be able to remove it until 1.5 seconds have passed. So, if you fail to remove that root...try again.
Watch your six: you cannot walk through any player, so enemies can trap you if they sneak in from behind.
More to come...maybe.
Sterica on
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Posts
Ah I see you said that in your thing. I just missed it.
I already got feedback from a couple people, but can anyone else comment about zealot vs. shammy squishiness and RVR healing effectiveness at higher levels?
I like the look and feel of the shammy and they are about 10x more fun in PVE.
At this point, though, I've played more zealot, and they seem a little bit more durable and flexible in their healing output in RVR. And for some reason they seem to be ignored a lot more often. But they are insanely slow and boring in solo PVE.
If they share mechanics with archmages, they own RVR.
I have been playing with the Rune Priest in the OB but I like the idea of Archmage a lot more. But High Elves are hideous, so I'm torn. The Rune Priest is fun though, if a bit boring which scares me a bit (though only level 5), and some of his later abilities sound interested, I just am not sure if I can actually play such a traditional roll of a healer and just stand in he back OCDing on health bars and nothing else. The Archmage seems give me more of a fun dance between damage and Healing to fully optimize both of them.
RvR is a pretty big priority so RvR healing is a big bonus. I did a few scenarios with the Rune Priest and managed fairly well despite it being a pretty steam rolling attempt.
Anyone willing to do a break down of the Archmage and Rune Priest or I guess even Zealot and Shaman would give me an idea as well. I can't seem to decide for sure outside of High Elves being ugly prissy fuckers.
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The thing is that we may not be Main healers but we can take a lot of pressure off of the main healers with our group heals and hots a bit later on in the game. Sure we can't out heal a focus fire, but we can keep the group up so a focus fire has far less chances of bringing the whole group down because the main healers are over taxed.
Rend Soul dosen't hurt either.
Only advice I have so far is this: Don't pick up a chalice as an off hand. We seem to do much better with two swords, at least in the first/second Teir.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I am having targeting issues though, and I haven't learned to use the detaunt yet. Some excellent tips in the OP, I will get a "target self" button bound the next time I play.
11 points in Isha, taking Funnel Essence (channeled heal, but it heals immediately, no cast time) and Bolstering Boon (tactic that grants +250 morale on the target of the AM big heal).
14 points in Vaul, taking Scatter the Winds (nine second -50% heal debuff plus a DoT), Law of Age (AoE toughness debuff), and Golden Aura (makes Radiant Gaze an AoE spell, which means AoE DoT plus a -%5 chance to hit and a -5% change to crit).
I'm assuming that kiting will be the favored tactic for the archmage - dump some dots to build up the Force/Tranq mechanic (which will allow for faster casting times or more damage, but ideally, would be used to make my giant heal an instant - which would also grant +250 morale), and toss debuffs around willy-nilly (I'm guessing that the -50% healing debuff will be a big deal).
That's not to say the class sucks - it's really a great old-school healer with a group.
healing with it is fun, and you can ressurect so many of your teammates in such a short time that you'll feel like a god damn necromancer
I don't care about damage. My alt will be a marauder so I'll be getting damage from him. I expect to do nothing but heal and ress and shield and buff as my zealot, because apparently I am very good at it
God, I love being an in-combat healer. So much fun.
I enjoyed as an archmage being at the outer limit for healing range while a group of destro tried to take down a tank I had friendly targetted.
Within 20 seconds of the fight starting, the destro are all DOTted, the tank is at full, and I'm giggling like a schoolgirl as I imagine their consternation.
So I'd like to discuss something other than server choices and Obama if anyone is interested. I want to talk about heal scaling. I was wondering today how willpower affected HoTs so I got to testing. What I found was that all heals gain health equal to (Willpower/5)*cast time or HPS*cast time. This includes instant casts and, oddly enough, HoTs. What this means is that HoTs will scale very poorly with Willpower, whereas heals with a cast time and instant heals will scale very well.
Also worth noting is that cast time is always >= 1.4 (the global cooldown). The healing spell with a 1s cast time that is a direct heal and a HoT (Gork'll Fix It, Dark Medicine, etc.) gains HPS*1.5 added onto both the direct heal and the HoT, making it slightly better than the 15 second HoT. The group heal gains HPS*3 per member so really it's 18*HPS, making it scale quite well.
Now here's where I could use some more insight. I haven't played before Open Beta so I have no idea what the end-game looks like. Can anyone give me some rough estimates for how much Willpower a high-end healer would have? I played Shaman all beta (I was Mint in TSM, hai guys) and loved it but this recent realization has made me reconsider. Looking over Zealot talents, I am sorely tempted to make the switch. I am concerned, however, with the lack of focus (or rather, the alternate focus) present in the Zealot's talent trees. For those that aren't aware, the Shaman has basically a healing tree, a damage tree, and a utility/debuff tree. The Zealot, on the other hand, has more of a direct effect tree, a HoT/DoT tree, and an AoE tree. How much weight does this spread of healing effects across the trees carry in later levels? Does the Shaman end up being the superior healer overall? These are the things I need to know.
On another note, Zealots have some awesome tricks up their sleeves (on paper, at least). Winds of Insanity and Mirror of Madness both look amazing. And the tactic that gives 15% increased critical chance for Flash of Chaos combined with the two tactics that make your target receive 25% more healing when you crit heal them and the one that makes you gain 160 AP over three seconds when you crit heal... the synergy makes me giddy. Regarding the 25% increased healing tactic -- I think I read somewhere that percentage bonuses normally are additive in WAR, which would suggest that this talent would help negate -healing% debuffs quite well. Can anyone comment on that? And one last question: what determines your chance to crit with heals?
Sorry for the novel. Help me choose a main!
I am not a hat!
That's some damn nice work.
The only thing I've been able to find with regards to crit chances is that Initiative decreases your chance to eat a hostile crit. The base crit rate seems to be decently high, but it is likely different for every class (my Witch Elf seems to crit more than my Blork for instance). I don't think there is any stat one could stack to have a huge crit chance, however.
If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
In a raw healing race, Witchcraft will likely be out performed. However, in WAR something will very rarely ever be a straight healing race. The advantages of being able to heal while running for instance is often worth the slightly less potent heal. Plus in the time one giant heal hit one tank for a huge amount, you could have two HoTs on two tanks stabilizing them.
It, like every other archetype, all comes down to what your best playstyle is.
good to know.
If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
HoTs are certainly still useful for topping off players and dealing with sustained damage (the AoE HoT, for instance, will be great for healing up minor AoE nukes and DoTs) but it means that, as players' damage ramps up and healers gain more willpower, HoTs will lose potency compared to direct heals.
Look at it this way. Take the 1500 health HoT compared to Flash of Chaos, which hits for around 200 at 40, if I'm not mistaken. The HoT ticks for 300 every three seconds so Flash spam grants 400 every three seconds -- only 33% more than a HoT tick for a ridiculously larger amount of AP. But let's add 1000 willpower. The HoT heals for 1800 total or 360 per tick, whereas Flash of Chaos now hits for 500. Flash spam now grants 1000 health every three seconds -- almost 300% as much as a HoT tick. In less than four casts (six seconds), you've healed more in total than the 15 second HoT.
What Oats said about being mobile is still, of course, relevant in this discussion. As he points out, HoTs won't lose their usefulness but I feel like they will take on more of a supplemental role rather than a main healing role.
What this really boils down to is my opinion that the Zealot will pull away from the Shaman in terms of healing potential because of Flash of Chaos (combined with the tactics I mentioned previously -- most Shaman tactics don't have a huge potential to increase healing, in my opinion). Sure, for sustained healing, a Shaman can compete with the 3s heal -- and even in the case of a Zealot, for sustained, raid-like tank healing, the bigger heal might be more appropriate. But in any burst situation Flash is almost certainly superior due to the fact that, on the short-term, you can get three flashes for one big heal because Flash is instant cast. Say someone gets hit for half their health. Healer A starts spamming Flash and healer B winds up the big heal. At zero seconds, healer A will have landed one Flash. At 1.5, two Flashes. At 3 seconds, healer A will have landed three Flashes and healer B will have finally gotten off the big heal. Now of course the longer this situation persists, the more the two methods even out. But given Flash's ability to respond better to burst damage, its ability to be cast on the move, and (in my opinion) the Zealot's superior healing tactics, I feel like the Zealot will pull away from the Shaman in terms of healing potential the higher Willpower gets.
Now one mechanic I haven't taken into consideration is Waagh. An instant cast big heal is obviously invaluable and is much stronger than Flash spam. I am interested, however, (if it wasn't already apparent) in more or less healbotting, which leaves getting the instant cast heal rather unlikely. The utility of instant cast offensive spells is worth debating, surely, but it is outside the scope of what I'm discussing here.
And Oats, thanks for your insight on the heal crit situation. If I had to estimate my Shaman's base crit chance, I would say 10%, but this is just based on what I remember over the beta so it has virtually no evidence behind it. Needless to say, even with just a 5% base chance, 15% chance from talents, and 12% chance from renown points (at RR80, but still), the crit chance is more than adequate to keep AP flowing in and the 25% increased healing buff on the target at all times.
One question I'd like to raise (or raise again -- I can't remember if it was in my original post) is if the 25% increased healing buff will stack additively or multiplicatively with -healing% debuffs. If the former, it could be huge in battling said debuffs.
from: Sorceress (and Bright Wizards)
heal us, and we will make things die for you
From: Healers
To: Sorceresses and Bright Wizards
Subj: Healing
There's only so much we can do when you insist on running into the middle of the zerg.
---
Actually, that's something I noticed about bright wizards. I guess a lot of their pimp juice must be wrapped up in PBAOE, because a lot of them happily rush into a group of 6-8 enemies while solo.
++ That's some seriously important info to know if you get jumped by a Witch Elf packing Kiss of Death and have to heal yourself.
Vi Monks, thanks for inspiring good discussion and awesome insight into the healing mechanics etc.
Re: stats/initiative 'n' whatnot, linky to the War wiki
Glad you found it useful. Hopefully as people get into higher-end content, we'll be able to see more clearly how this all plays out in-game.
Another concern I'd like to bring up is how mastery level is calculated into overall effectiveness. I've read that a maxed mastery increases the effectiveness of the associated spells by 33%, so I'll use this number -- the actual number is irrelevant for my question.
I'm curious if the mastery modifier applies before willpower [thus you would get (base healing*mastery modifier)+willpower modifier] or after it [making the equation (base healing+willpower modifier)*mastery modifier]. I'm assuming it's the former case, but if it is the latter then a much stronger case could be made for the Shaman being the superior healer due to having all his healing spells in one spec. So much to test in the high ranks.
Food for thought.
This is true, and something that I forgot to mention. Though from my experiences, I found an instant cast Yer Not So Bad (180 AP stolen over 9 seconds) invaluable for powering my own heals and disabling other people, healers in particular. Throwing that on a Runepriest a few seconds before your MDPS start hammering him greatly increases the chance of a kill. Also Bleed Fer Me gains nothing from Willpower (though it does gain from intelligence) so its numbers might end up being less than impressive, even with Gork Waaagh.
On the other hand, it does have other advantages. It has a 24 second duration and only a 10 second recharge so it can be stacked, making it more potent. It also has no range restriction whatsoever that I've been able to find so you can throw some light healing to someone across the map if necessary. Might not be terribly useful, but it's worth keeping in mind. All in all, you're right. It's another tool the Shaman has up his sleeve.
If it's like the archmage version (and I see no reason for it not to be) it doesn't stack, but it does refresh the timer. However, you can DoT up a bunch of people with Bleed Fer Me and each will heal who ever your defensive target was when you cast it.
I would rather have the shaman version.
Drain Magic - DD that hits for approx 5% of someone's life.
I like to play it safe as a squishie; staying in the back and have a decently high amount of Dark Magic (or Combustion), enjoying my big crits and not asking for a tank or melée to destroy me. Maybe some sorcs like basically being a living bomb.. I prefer trying to prolong my glass cannon-age. Hugs.
Spoiler'd for Hueg:
Here's a quick list of the order of spells you should be casting for the best effect:
1: Tzeentch's cordial -- This spell has an absolutely massive amount of HP delivered per action point, it should be the first thing you put up, and should be kept up at all times.
2: Elixir of Dark Blessings -- A long ways behind Tzeentch's cordial in AP->HP efficiency, it's nonetheless the best HP throughput heal available, if someone is taking moderate to heavy damage, this is the spell you should start casting right away.
3: Leaping alteration -- This one is situational in the extreme, it's only effective if you hit 5 or 6 targets all within 30 feet of eachother that need the hp, but as long as you hit that many people with it, it becomes more effective than elixir of dark blessings. Forgetting about this one isn't a big deal, tzeentch's cordial is more likely to be effective anyway.
4: Veil of Chaos -- this is the best instant direct "heal" you have available, but it's still miles behind elixir in terms of hp delivered. This should be your go-to button when someone takes a massive spike, followed immediately by an elixir of dark blessings.
5: Dark medicine -- a terrible heal in general, but slightly less terrible than flash of chaos, this is your "oh shit I'm getting hit so I can't cast a real heal" button. Try to avoid it unless it's an emergency, the small amount of hp it delivers up front is unlikely to save someone from a big spike, and the short hot that follows doesn't deliver the staying power you'd expect from 55 action points.
6: Flash of Chaos -- somehow even worse than dark medicine, only use this if everybody already has tzeentch's cordial up and you absolutely need some HP without stopping to cast.
When applying heals with the above priorities in mind, you should be thinking about what you can be casting to be most effective. The first question is something like this: Does everybody have tzeentch's cordial up? If not, start spamming elixir. If I stop to cast another Tzeentch's cordial, will my tank die? If yes, elixir anyway, even if other people could use the HoT.
The other important question would be: Am I getting hit? If the answer is yes, you basically have to skip elixir entirely, and will have to start using worse heals. You always want to start by having cordial up on everyone who's taken damage. After that is when you start putting up leaping alteration, and dark medicine. Only when tanking enough mobs that you can't even think of casting a 1s spell should you consider resorting to flash of chaos.
Sticking to just Cordial and Elixir are the best ways to deliver a ton of healing throughput, so find ways to get those two spells as often as possible, and you'll put out a ton of healing and steal first place in all those scenario's and PQ's.
Um, wait, that's a Shaman?
Yeah, that's what I meant by stacking. You can DoT multiple people so that the HoT portion stacks.