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[WAR] Healer Archetypes: You are a hat.

2456724

Posts

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2008
    I didn't realize Yer Not So Bad worked off WAAAGH!

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • zenpotatozenpotato Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Hey guys, I wrote the below "guide" for my guildies who just couldn't figure out how to heal as a zealot at all. I found everything here to be valid from level 8 to 20, with a stat focus entirely on willpower (I was up to 400 willpower by 20.)

    Spoiler'd for Hueg:
    snip'd advice

    Most of that seems good from a theoretical standpoint, but I'd provide this as a counter-argument for pragmatism. The goal isn't to be #1 so much as it is to be still alive at the end of a fight. With that in mind, here's how I prioritize my heals.

    Cordial--Easily #1. I try to keep this up on almost everyone who is taking damage.

    Veil--This is usually cast on myself or the tank I'm healing. Both of us are almost always taking damage.

    Flash of Chaos--It doesn't heal like mad, but it's instant. I can run around like crazy, not stand still and get DPS'd when casting. This is a mainstay for me. I can stay alive a long time just by putting up Cordial, Veil, and then spamming Flash. So can other people.

    Dark Medicine--The AP cost on this is outrageous. I generally only use it if I have a target that is taking tons of damage and I want to get two HoTs rolling at the same time. I haven't done the math on it, but I'd be surprised if it was much better than FoC given the high AP cost.

    Elixir--This is our best heal, but I rarely ever have time to use it. If, for some weird reason I'm not being crushed by DPS in RVR, I might through out a big one once in awhile. It's nicer for PVE. In RVR I find that I'm usually more effective tossing up a DoT, nuke, or Harbinger (for Sorc synergy) for spreading the Cordial love around than sitting still for 3 seconds to cast this. If there is anyone within 15 feet of me, I don't bother because I'm going to get interrupted.


    I guess I tend to prize mobility and flexibility over getting the big heal numbers. I'd rather stay mobile and cast more Cordial's and FoC's on more people than focus on keeping up just one person. I notice that I'm usually #2 or #3 on the healing meters after a scenario, but I think I'm still a top contributor where it really counts--victories.

    zenpotato on
  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    zenpotato wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    A guide
    Some good stuff about said guide.

    I agree with pretty much everything Zenpotato said. I very much dislike Dark Medicine (or rather, I dislike the Shaman equivalent -- I haven't played Zealot, though I plan to). I found myself using Dark Medicine quite often, but in a horribly inefficient role: I would use it as a quick heal that I could get off while I was being pounded and as such, I would spam it. It became my Flash of Chaos, basically, since Shaman have no equivalent.

    It will probably stay in my rotation as a decent HoT once I get to high ranks on my Zealot, however, if only because Willpower applies to it twice. As I've said perhaps too often in this thread, HoTs are going to be out-scaled. AoE heals and direct heals will be much more effective as healers get more and more Willpower. Thus, while the Zealot can maintain his mobility due to Flash of Chaos, for the Shaman to remain similarly mobile, he will have to rely on HoTs. As Zenpotato pointed out, mobility is key and the Zealot is certainly the winner in that regard.

    Vi Monks on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    zenpotato wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Hey guys, I wrote the below "guide" for my guildies who just couldn't figure out how to heal as a zealot at all. I found everything here to be valid from level 8 to 20, with a stat focus entirely on willpower (I was up to 400 willpower by 20.)

    Spoiler'd for Hueg:
    snip'd advice
    I guess I tend to prize mobility and flexibility over getting the big heal numbers. I'd rather stay mobile and cast more Cordial's and FoC's on more people than focus on keeping up just one person. I notice that I'm usually #2 or #3 on the healing meters after a scenario, but I think I'm still a top contributor where it really counts--victories.

    This is where having a priority system comes in. Elixir is simply better per time and per AP than almost any other heal you have, so if at all possible, you want to put yourself in a position to make good use out of it. Simply staying 150 yards away from the action is an excellent start to keeping out of the line of fire. Finding a bush or a rock to heal from is another great way to keep from getting noticed.

    The point being that yes, if you're running your ass away from a witch hunter, a bright wizard, and a drunken dwarf, you will most certainly not be able to get full elixir casts off, and will have to rely on flash. But you should, at all costs, be putting yourself into situations where you can spam elixirs whenever possible.

    Also, the reason I have dark medicine ever-so-slightly above flash in my list is because of the delivered HP per GCD that it provides, which is more than double flash's, even though it only has a slightly better HP/AP ratio.

    EDIT: Also, one of the primary purposes of that guide was to get people interested in hitting something other than flash. I was trying to get heals going on some of the PQ's with Lord bosses at the end, and the heals just weren't happening, come to find out our zealots were all dumping all their AP on flash of chaos and dark medicine, and wondering why it wasn't keeping up.

    Ryokaze on
  • zenpotatozenpotato Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Yeah, Flash is a purely RVR or solo spell. It doesn't factor in during PVE.

    There are times when I'm able to comfortably stay 150 yards away... but they seem to be few and far between.

    zenpotato on
  • Fig-DFig-D Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    STAND COWARD!

    I'm playing DoK when my friend(s) aren't on. Getting used to melee healing takes some time. I have areally hard time switching around my targets to get heals to the right people while attacking what everyone else is in order to help bring it down. I'll get used to it eventually, and I'm having a lot of fun, I just don't have the healing down all that well yet.

    Fig-D on
    SteamID - Fig-D :: PSN - Fig-D
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hm, I'm torn between Shammy and Deciple of Khaine.

    KiTA on
    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So I'm seriously considering rolling a lolDPS Shaman. The debuffs they can get are totally absurd. A simple Life Leaka + Brain Bursta with tactics = -200 Int, -200 Will, -240 Toughness, -150 Morale? Yes, please. 'Ey, Quit Bleedin is a Core ability(every healer has the equivalent actually), along with rezzing and debuff removal, so I could still handle basic team upkeep as well. I think there's definitely a place for DPS specced healers in this game - fucking DoKs have a tactic that completely disables all healing on a target for 5 seconds every time they get a crit.

    Zek on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2008
    KiTA wrote: »
    Hm, I'm torn between Shammy and Deciple of Khaine.
    It's so very hard. Once I geared my DoK properly, I was quite the asskicker. A Squid Herder I just ran into helped me take down 3-4 Order at fucking ONCE. Finally two IBs and a WP came in and killed us after farming Order for nearly an hour. You HAVE to attack a DoK or they'll full-heal most people in seconds.

    On the other hand, Shaman just have a greater appeal. I like the look of their gear more, and it is rather not to be untethered to melee in order to heal. But, I fear I might be stuck healing all the damn time.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Zek wrote: »
    So I'm seriously considering rolling a lolDPS Shaman. The debuffs they can get are totally absurd. A simple Life Leaka + Brain Bursta with tactics = -200 Int, -200 Will, -240 Toughness, -150 Morale? Yes, please. 'Ey, Quit Bleedin is a Core ability(every healer has the equivalent actually), along with rezzing and debuff removal, so I could still handle basic team upkeep as well. I think there's definitely a place for DPS specced healers in this game - fucking DoKs have a tactic that completely disables all healing on a target for 5 seconds every time they get a crit.

    I don't know if they fixed but I will note that the Brain Bursta tactic that gives it a toughness debuff? Multiple casts from the same shaman stack on the target. Yes, one shaman can reduce a person's toughness to 0 if he keeps spamming the spell.

    Plus, like, Gork Sez Stop calls you. It wants you. It needs you.

    Edit: Even this forum agrees with me. TOTP endorses Gork Sez Stop.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2008
    At RR80, you can actually get a good lifesteal build with a DoK that keeps the 100% heal debuff and snag two tactics that buff your crit by 15%.

    So good.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    And I never tried out the Shaman's Da Green path, but the last ability they get, the 60% AoE snare looks amazing.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • tehkensaitehkensai Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    KiTA wrote: »
    Hm, I'm torn between Shammy and Deciple of Khaine.
    It's so very hard. Once I geared my DoK properly, I was quite the asskicker. A Squid Herder I just ran into helped me take down 3-4 Order at fucking ONCE. Finally two IBs and a WP came in and killed us after farming Order for nearly an hour. You HAVE to attack a DoK or they'll full-heal most people in seconds.

    On the other hand, Shaman just have a greater appeal. I like the look of their gear more, and it is rather not to be untethered to melee in order to heal. But, I fear I might be stuck healing all the damn time.

    I dont know, Im a big fan of the "in the shit" healers because I feel so goddamn useful-and I can be right there with my ironbreaker buddy, beating on stuff. In my eyes its a HUGE step forward for MMO's as normally healers in DAOC or WoW were just...boring. All you did was heal and buff, and while you needed that, a lot of people tended to ignore the class because it was very, very very tedious.

    tehkensai on
    jAhPU.jpg
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2008
    Wow. You do an incredible debuff build with shaman. You can heavy in Gork for a lot of debuffs, but I prefer You'se Squishy over the Hurts, Don't It? tactic. It's AoE, debuffs more...really nice to fuck over the melee. Also frees up a tactic.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    zenpotato wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Hey guys, I wrote the below "guide" for my guildies who just couldn't figure out how to heal as a zealot at all. I found everything here to be valid from level 8 to 20, with a stat focus entirely on willpower (I was up to 400 willpower by 20.)

    Spoiler'd for Hueg:
    snip'd advice
    I guess I tend to prize mobility and flexibility over getting the big heal numbers. I'd rather stay mobile and cast more Cordial's and FoC's on more people than focus on keeping up just one person. I notice that I'm usually #2 or #3 on the healing meters after a scenario, but I think I'm still a top contributor where it really counts--victories.

    This is where having a priority system comes in. Elixir is simply better per time and per AP than almost any other heal you have, so if at all possible, you want to put yourself in a position to make good use out of it. Simply staying 150 yards away from the action is an excellent start to keeping out of the line of fire. Finding a bush or a rock to heal from is another great way to keep from getting noticed.

    The point being that yes, if you're running your ass away from a witch hunter, a bright wizard, and a drunken dwarf, you will most certainly not be able to get full elixir casts off, and will have to rely on flash. But you should, at all costs, be putting yourself into situations where you can spam elixirs whenever possible.

    Also, the reason I have dark medicine ever-so-slightly above flash in my list is because of the delivered HP per GCD that it provides, which is more than double flash's, even though it only has a slightly better HP/AP ratio.

    EDIT: Also, one of the primary purposes of that guide was to get people interested in hitting something other than flash. I was trying to get heals going on some of the PQ's with Lord bosses at the end, and the heals just weren't happening, come to find out our zealots were all dumping all their AP on flash of chaos and dark medicine, and wondering why it wasn't keeping up.

    While all this is true when you consider the spells by themselves, when you factor in tactics, the situation changes dramatically. Three tactics specifically allow Flash to become so much more than it is on its own.

    Chaotic Force: +15% crit on Flash of Chaos
    Restorative Burst: Any time one of your direct healing effects critically heals an ally, you will regain 160 AP over 3 seconds.
    Blessing of Chaos: Critical heals will Bless your target for 10 seconds, increasing the power of any heals used on them by 25%.

    These tactics change the situation dramatically. Most obviously, Flash will have a 15% higher chance to crit than Elixir. It will also be cast much more often. I prefer to think in short-term situations. Endless spamming of Elixir is (at least so far in my experience) a rare occurrence. I usually find myself casting Elixir once or twice, which generally stabilizes the situation. Therefore I usually think about Flash compared to Elixir in terms of three Flashes for one Elixir or five Flashes for two Elixirs. If they are endlessly spammed, obviously, I would think in terms of two Flashes for one Elixir (and even in that case, Flash holds out relatively well).

    But in terms of specifics, let's consider someone casting two Elixirs end to end or five Flashes. I'm not sure what the base crit rate for heals is but I'm going to assume around a 15% chance to crit, including the base rate, renown, and gear. If you cast two Elixirs, there is approximately a 28% chance that at least one of them will crit -- preferably the first as to get the 25% bonus as early as possible. Even if it is the first, it still happens three seconds in (which can be relevant, considering any HoTs on the target and other healers healing him). At rank 40, Elixir heals for 1125. Assuming the Zealot in question has approximately 700 willpower, each Elixir will gain 420 healing on top of that, making each Elixir heal for 1545. If we average in the crit rate (ignoring the 25% healing blessing because it's too annoying to calculate), each Elixir will heal for 1660 (1545+(1545 * .5 * .15)) -- this is assuming a crit heals for 150% the base value, which I believe is accurate.

    Now consider Flash spam. In the span of two Elixir casts, you could cast five Flashes. Since Flash has a 30% chance to crit (compared to 15% with Elixir), there is approximately an 83% chance that at least one will crit (compared to only 28% for Elixir). And more likely than not, this will happen early in the chain. Considering how powerful the 25% healing received buff is, this is big news. At rank 40, Flash of Chaos heals for 202. Assuming the same Willpower, each Flash will gain 210 healing on top of that, making each Flash heal for 412. Averaging the crit rate as we did for Elixir, each Flash should heal, on average, for 473.

    Using the two above examples, over the course of one Elixir, Flash spam would heal for 1419 -- only 241 below Elixir. Over the course of two Elixirs, Flash spam begins to lose ground: Flash spam grants 2365 health compared to Elixir's 3320 -- 955 less. But there is more to consider than just the numbers. Elixir spamming is about as likely as not to keep the 25% healing received buff going, whereas Flash spam is almost guaranteed to keep it up at all times. If you add 25% onto Flash's numbers, things begin to even out (granted, giving Flash a constant 25% while not giving it to Elixir at all isn't really fair but it highlights the dynamic and I don't feel like calculating the chances of Elixir maintaining the Blessing and how it would affect overall healing).

    My only point in all this is that Flash spam can be greatly improved by talents that are more powerful the more often you cast and that it is a comparable method of healing to Elixir spam. If you're not being pressured and are free to cast as you like, then Elixir is almost always the better choice, especially with multiple healers, making keeping the 25% healing received Blessing applied much more likely. Though even when you're not under pressure, Flash spam can sometimes be preferable. Say, for instance, when someone has been spiked and their health has dropped dangerously low; in this case, they need healing right that second. Someone needs to be spamming Flash to try to save the target while other healers (Shaman, perhaps?) are winding up the big heal. So in terms of HPS, Elixir wins, hands down. But Flash isn't a throwaway spell either.

    And last but not least, the AP issue. Flash costs 30 AP or 20 AP/sec if you spam it. Luckily, Restorative Burst takes care of that. In order to generate 20 AP/sec, Restorative Burst must proc once every eight seconds. In eight seconds, you can cast Flash five times (six if you include the cast at second zero). The chance of at least one Flash critting out of eight is over 94%. Resorative Burst should quite easily take care of AP issues while spamming Flash of Chaos for any extended period of time.

    On one final note, I realize this is a whole bunch of theorycrafting and things could change dramatically in actual practice in the end-game. I'm open to that. But since I don't have access to the end-game right now, all I can do is play with the numbers. And for what it's worth, I find that actual gameplay situations tend to favor the flexible, mobile methods rather than the one that generates the biggest numbers. But as always take this all with a grain of salt. And feel free to disagree with theorycrafting of your own. Because I love a good theorycrafting debate. :lol:

    Vi Monks on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Wow. You do an incredible debuff build with shaman. You can heavy in Gork for a lot of debuffs, but I prefer You'se Squishy over the Hurts, Don't It? tactic. It's AoE, debuffs more...really nice to fuck over the melee. Also frees up a tactic.

    It doesn't debuff more, WarDB doesn't have all the ranks for Hurts. It scales up to -240, and also drains Morale. But yeah, Squishy is good too.

    Zek on
  • simsim Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Ugh...I had switched my ideal main to shaman from zealot. Now that I've checked out the zealot career builder with a bit more class knowledge - their tactics and trained skills look awesome.

    How does survivability, debufing, and ability to deal some damage when needed play out in late game between them? Zealot feels torturously slow doing anything but team healing up to 10...if this changes later I'd switch back to zealot.

    :|

    sim on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Flash may end up being almost comparable to Elixir after factoring in 30 mastery points and several tactics favoring flash over elixir, but until then, elixir remains far and away the more powerful heal in every regard except the "getting trained by three witch hunters" regard.

    Ryokaze on
  • grimlock9909grimlock9909 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    so what is the best crafting combo for an archmage healer? I was thinking apothicary/cultivating.

    grimlock9909 on
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I plan on going magical salvaging / talisman making on my archmage - since she'll be my main, she'll have the most loot turnover. Using rested xp, I plan on leveling an ironbreaker (cultivating/apothocary) and other alts (each with different scavenging). I don't believe there are any BoP potions, but I could be wrong.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Flash may end up being almost comparable to Elixir after factoring in 30 mastery points and several tactics favoring flash over elixir, but until then, elixir remains far and away the more powerful heal in every regard except the "getting trained by three witch hunters" regard.

    The thing is every tactic that improves Elixir in any way whatsoever improves Flash more, relatively speaking. If you go look at the Zealot tactics, you see that almost all of them (if they have to do with healing at all) are tactics that have a chance to proc on each cast, in which case Flash benefits from them the most. The other tactics that affect healing either do nothing to Flash or Elixir (such as giving Cordial a heal when it expires) or affect them both equally, such as the 160 willpower talent, though it could be argued that, in a burst situation, this talent affects Flash more as well.

    Now I'm not disagreeing with you at all when you say that Elixir is the most "powerful" heal in terms of the raw amount of health it can restore. I just want to point out that Flash is much more powerful than it first appears (when I first saw it, I dismissed it as "a HoT tick for 30 AP"). It gives the Zealot much more flexibility in his options and when you consider tactics, that benefit only becomes more apparent.

    Vi Monks on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Now I'm not disagreeing with you at all when you say that Elixir is the most "powerful" heal in terms of the raw amount of health it can restore. I just want to point out that Flash is much more powerful than it first appears (when I first saw it, I dismissed it as "a HoT tick for 30 AP"). It gives the Zealot much more flexibility in his options and when you consider tactics, that benefit only becomes more apparent.

    You do realize that your posts are going to be used for evil now, right?

    Ryokaze on
  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Now I'm not disagreeing with you at all when you say that Elixir is the most "powerful" heal in terms of the raw amount of health it can restore. I just want to point out that Flash is much more powerful than it first appears (when I first saw it, I dismissed it as "a HoT tick for 30 AP"). It gives the Zealot much more flexibility in his options and when you consider tactics, that benefit only becomes more apparent.

    You do realize that your posts are going to be used for evil now, right?

    For evil? I must say, I'm intrigued -- how is that?

    Vi Monks on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Now I'm not disagreeing with you at all when you say that Elixir is the most "powerful" heal in terms of the raw amount of health it can restore. I just want to point out that Flash is much more powerful than it first appears (when I first saw it, I dismissed it as "a HoT tick for 30 AP"). It gives the Zealot much more flexibility in his options and when you consider tactics, that benefit only becomes more apparent.

    You do realize that your posts are going to be used for evil now, right?

    For evil? I must say, I'm intrigued -- how is that?

    You're going to be in some lowbie scenario, tanking six shadowworriors named XXLEGOLASZER, and some zealot that saw this series of posts is going to OOM (OOA?) himself spamming flash, and you're going to die a horrible, slow death. You've gotta be careful when you post something that applies to only a very small subset of the population, especially when you consider that anybody who's at the point where using flash is actually a viable alternative, will probably be able to figure it out for themselves.

    Also, if it's someone that can't figure it out for themselves, do you really want to trust their ability to decide which to use?

    Ryokaze on
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    It's a video game.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • zenpotatozenpotato Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Zealot DPS gets better, especially after you pick up one of the DPS spells in the mastery trees and get the healer>DPS conversion tactic, but it's never great. Everyone else will always kill faster than you.

    Also, I'd like to point out that Elixir becomes unusable far sooner than "being trained by 3 witch hunters." Any damage of any sort makes the spell uncastable. It's good. It's just not flexible.

    And for a class often called the "flex healer," I think the wise zealot keeps all the tools in his toolbox ready for use. Which spells are used most is going to depend on the player's personal style. Where you are on the battle field often dictates which is best.

    zenpotato on
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So. Any screenshots of high level DoK and Shammy gear? I'd like to see how I'd look high level with either one.

    KiTA on
    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Now I'm not disagreeing with you at all when you say that Elixir is the most "powerful" heal in terms of the raw amount of health it can restore. I just want to point out that Flash is much more powerful than it first appears (when I first saw it, I dismissed it as "a HoT tick for 30 AP"). It gives the Zealot much more flexibility in his options and when you consider tactics, that benefit only becomes more apparent.

    You do realize that your posts are going to be used for evil now, right?

    For evil? I must say, I'm intrigued -- how is that?

    You're going to be in some lowbie scenario, tanking six shadowworriors named XXLEGOLASZER, and some zealot that saw this series of posts is going to OOM (OOA?) himself spamming flash, and you're going to die a horrible, slow death. You've gotta be careful when you post something that applies to only a very small subset of the population, especially when you consider that anybody who's at the point where using flash is actually a viable alternative, will probably be able to figure it out for themselves.

    Also, if it's someone that can't figure it out for themselves, do you really want to trust their ability to decide which to use?

    so because he talked about Flash, bad players will be bad?

    non sequitur, man.

    how is Warrior Priesting these days? I didn't get to try them much during the OB.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Now I'm not disagreeing with you at all when you say that Elixir is the most "powerful" heal in terms of the raw amount of health it can restore. I just want to point out that Flash is much more powerful than it first appears (when I first saw it, I dismissed it as "a HoT tick for 30 AP"). It gives the Zealot much more flexibility in his options and when you consider tactics, that benefit only becomes more apparent.

    You do realize that your posts are going to be used for evil now, right?

    For evil? I must say, I'm intrigued -- how is that?

    You're going to be in some lowbie scenario, tanking six shadowworriors named XXLEGOLASZER, and some zealot that saw this series of posts is going to OOM (OOA?) himself spamming flash, and you're going to die a horrible, slow death. You've gotta be careful when you post something that applies to only a very small subset of the population, especially when you consider that anybody who's at the point where using flash is actually a viable alternative, will probably be able to figure it out for themselves.

    Also, if it's someone that can't figure it out for themselves, do you really want to trust their ability to decide which to use?

    Well you're right in that bad players who try to spam Flash at low levels, before they've gotten a lot of willpower and the necessary tactics will find it lackluster. In terms of healing power, Flash doesn't hold a candle to Elixir at low levels. And you're also right in that someone who has gotten to the point I've described in terms of advancement will likely have figured all of this out. My goal, however, was to speculate on what would be effective end-game based on what I had: low-level experience and lots of numbers. Everything I've said so far in this thread concerning heals and their relative potency was so I could figure out what class I wanted to play. I figured I would post it all here so that other people could join in and maybe point out my mistakes or other points of view -- or at the very least that I could give other people who were on the fence something to think about. My way is hardly the only way to play, nor is it the only way to consider the potency of the various heals and healers. This is just how I've been thinking about it.

    Vi Monks on
  • SaphierSaphier Aka Errant Registered User regular
    edited September 2008

    so because he talked about Flash, bad players will be bad?

    non sequitur, man.

    how is Warrior Priesting these days? I didn't get to try them much during the OB.

    Warrior priesting is pretty fun.

    Divine Assault + Emperor's Ward is pretty crazy for survivability. Until I got that tactic healing in combat with Divine Assault was pretty hard due to spell knockback, but with that shield up I can usually get the entire cast off for a pretty huge heal. And a nice chunk of damage while its at it.

    Zek wrote: »
    fucking DoKs have a tactic that completely disables all healing on a target for 5 seconds every time they get a crit.

    :O Do Warrior priests get a mirror ability to that?

    Saphier on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Now I'm not disagreeing with you at all when you say that Elixir is the most "powerful" heal in terms of the raw amount of health it can restore. I just want to point out that Flash is much more powerful than it first appears (when I first saw it, I dismissed it as "a HoT tick for 30 AP"). It gives the Zealot much more flexibility in his options and when you consider tactics, that benefit only becomes more apparent.

    You do realize that your posts are going to be used for evil now, right?

    For evil? I must say, I'm intrigued -- how is that?

    You're going to be in some lowbie scenario, tanking six shadowworriors named XXLEGOLASZER, and some zealot that saw this series of posts is going to OOM (OOA?) himself spamming flash, and you're going to die a horrible, slow death. You've gotta be careful when you post something that applies to only a very small subset of the population, especially when you consider that anybody who's at the point where using flash is actually a viable alternative, will probably be able to figure it out for themselves.

    Also, if it's someone that can't figure it out for themselves, do you really want to trust their ability to decide which to use?

    so because he talked about Flash, bad players will be bad?

    non sequitur, man.

    how is Warrior Priesting these days? I didn't get to try them much during the OB.

    There's already someone in this very thread, nodding their head and using it as an excuse to spam flash instead of finding ways to use more effective tools.

    So yes, because he talked about flash, bad players will be bad.

    Ryokaze on
  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    There's already someone in this very thread, nodding their head and using it as an excuse to spam flash instead of finding ways to use more effective tools.

    So yes, because he talked about flash, bad players will be bad.

    Looking through the thread, I don't see anyone who has even mentioned Flash directly (besides myself and you, of course), much less said that they will be Flash spamming no matter what. And if someone were to come to that conclusion based on what I've said, then I'd imagine that person is doomed to play rather poorly regardless of what anyone says.

    Vi Monks on
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    KiTA wrote: »
    So. Any screenshots of high level DoK and Shammy gear? I'd like to see how I'd look high level with either one.

    KiTA on
    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • RabidTreeMonkeyRabidTreeMonkey Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    So yes, because he talked about flash, bad players will be bad.
    I disagree. Bad players are bad players period. Good players may start off poorly, but they will learn and always find a way to be successful on their own merits. Give good players more info/discussion and they will often use that info to further their skills even more.

    RabidTreeMonkey on
  • KajustaKajusta Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    KiTA wrote: »
    KiTA wrote: »
    So. Any screenshots of high level DoK and Shammy gear? I'd like to see how I'd look high level with either one.

    http://www3.telus.net/public/mehwulfe/kyan/WAR/classes/

    Kajusta on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XBL
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    KiTA wrote: »
    KiTA wrote: »
    So. Any screenshots of high level DoK and Shammy gear? I'd like to see how I'd look high level with either one.

    When you get to the character selection screen, the outfits of all the characters that are shown as options before you click then and make your char? All of those guys are wearing rank 40 set gear. Near the top of the line stuff but below city siege level gear.

    One of the phases just after guild beta we got to test them with templates wearing that exact gear. It was sexy.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • zenpotatozenpotato Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »

    There's already someone in this very thread, nodding their head and using it as an excuse to spam flash instead of finding ways to use more effective tools.

    So yes, because he talked about flash, bad players will be bad.

    Flash is a very effective tool in certain situations. So is Elixir. The situation where Flash is more effective is the one I happen to find myself in 80%+ of the time (running around).

    Part of the reason new players become Flash spammers is because they get it at rank 1. They don't get Elixir until rank 8. That's a lot of time to learn how to do things one way.

    Finding time to wind up my big 3 second heal just doesn't happen all that often. And I don't want it to. Sitting around for 3 seconds feels like forever in WAR.

    zenpotato on
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    zenpotato wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »

    There's already someone in this very thread, nodding their head and using it as an excuse to spam flash instead of finding ways to use more effective tools.

    So yes, because he talked about flash, bad players will be bad.

    Flash is a very effective tool in certain situations. So is Elixir. The situation where Flash is more effective is the one I happen to find myself in 80%+ of the time (running around).

    Part of the reason new players become Flash spammers is because they get it at rank 1. They don't get Elixir until rank 8. That's a lot of time to learn how to do things one way.

    Finding time to wind up my big 3 second heal just doesn't happen all that often. And I don't want it to. Sitting around for 3 seconds feels like forever in WAR.

    That's why you play an archmage, and turn your 3 second heal into a pseudo-insta cast (have to stop moving to cast it, but it ends up being < 1 second ). Also, with the proper tactic, that 3-second-but-now-instant Boon of Hysh just gave the person receiving it +250 morale.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2008
    Saphier wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    fucking DoKs have a tactic that completely disables all healing on a target for 5 seconds every time they get a crit.

    :O Do Warrior priests get a mirror ability to that?
    Nah.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I never thought I'd see the day where I main a healer in a MMO, but I'm loving the fuck out of my Rune Priest. In RvR I really feel useful, and I've got some time to think and shoot heals around, while doing minor DPS, something you can't do in Guild Wars with a monk.

    Djiem on
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