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[WAR] Healer Archetypes: You are a hat.

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Posts

  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Well - the other nice thing about insta-rez (and this sounds really bad) - if you're getting overrun, you can often get away if you rez a random person and use them as fodder. :P

    The Funnel Essence change just makes me nervous - my guildmates in beta assure me that things will still be fine, but I do feel like I'm losing out on an integral piece of the AM healing puzzle.

    I tried playing on live last night and only using my funnel essence as it was meant to be used and while it was more difficult to keep people up under an assist train it just required a different strategy.
    My bubble seems to be almost exclusively reserved for the WL in my guild group - she takes a serious pounding, but she also cuts people down incredibly quickly.

    As a final, unrelated, unsolicited tip - running with +500 toughness effectively negates witch elves. They no longer become an issue at that point, and it's kind of funny and sad to see them pop on you and realize that their damage isn't working quite right. It's to the point now that some of them just don't bother attacking me anymore.

    I use my bubble whenever my hots are getting outdamaged. If I throw on lambent aura then healing energy and their health still appears to be depleting pretty quick I throw the bubble up then funnel essence. The bubble, while seemingly inneffective, lets the hots tick enough along with funnel essence to heal a pretty decent amount of health.

    how the hell do youg et 500+ toughness on an archmage? Before I hit 30 I would get 3-4 shotted by witch elves unless I was lucky enough to not be silenced so I could get my detaunt(s) off on them. I don't understand why all witch elves don
    't silence me becuase that pretty much guarantees them a kill unless another healer is paying attention.

    All toughness gems on the annihilator set, 104 points of toughness using 34 renown skill points, and pots.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I don't understand why all witch elves don
    't silence me becuase that pretty much guarantees them a kill unless another healer is paying attention.

    Stooopid arkmeg, thta's not how u do it! silenc duzn't do da MAD DPSZ!1!1eleven


    Edit: Got a CTD today, first time ever. This is after things took about 2-3 minutes to load IC, logon buttons took 30+ seconds to reply, thigns took forever to load, etc. I wonder if CTDs are lag related.

    KiTA on
    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    How do I, as a level 38 Sorc, kill any equal level healer before I die of backlashes? I can't figure it out. Maybe we're not supposed to be able to take out healers though

    Just drop playing with fire on them and it's a gaurante-- OH WAIT.

    EDIT: Oh, I meant to post this a while ago during the itemization discussion, but zealot itemization is so bad, they've decided to just start handing out penises for weapons:

    Knifeofthecontraceptive.jpg

    The best part is that the Knife of the Contraceptive has weaponskill on it.

    Ryokaze on
  • ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    How do I, as a level 38 Sorc, kill any equal level healer before I die of backlashes? I can't figure it out. Maybe we're not supposed to be able to take out healers though

    I usually have to have incredible luck with all crits or you need to work with someone else. I tend to work with a guild squig herder or WE to take down healers. I usually have to start with my silence spell or I'm not going to make a dent in them.

    Otherwise, use focsed mind with DD and that'll usually do the trick.

    Ardor on
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Ardor wrote: »
    Zzulu wrote: »
    How do I, as a level 38 Sorc, kill any equal level healer before I die of backlashes? I can't figure it out. Maybe we're not supposed to be able to take out healers though

    I usually have to have incredible luck with all crits or you need to work with someone else. I tend to work with a guild squig herder or WE to take down healers. I usually have to start with my silence spell or I'm not going to make a dent in them.

    Otherwise, use focsed mind with DD and that'll usually do the trick.

    Alternatively, use heal pots?

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Ardor wrote: »
    Zzulu wrote: »
    How do I, as a level 38 Sorc, kill any equal level healer before I die of backlashes? I can't figure it out. Maybe we're not supposed to be able to take out healers though

    I usually have to have incredible luck with all crits or you need to work with someone else. I tend to work with a guild squig herder or WE to take down healers. I usually have to start with my silence spell or I'm not going to make a dent in them.

    Otherwise, use focsed mind with DD and that'll usually do the trick.

    Alternatively, use heal pots?

    2m cooldown timer right? 1.5s GCD for a healer can start to quickly make up for whatever I was attempting to heal and get away.

    Like the BW, we don't do much damage if we aren't critting with the chance to backlash. I backlash for like 750 dmg or something at full dark magic at rank 40. All so I can hopefully crit and hit for maybe 1200. That's the trade-off we're looking at, against a class that can heal and the silence can trigger backlash on me and takes 2s to cast.

    Ardor on
  • HypatiaHypatia Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    If people are interested, I started working out some tables and things comparing different archetypes, the healers are all done now. Basically they're just some pages with a brief description of how the classes work and tables showing which abilities/tactics/morale abilities both sides have (example: Rune Priest vs Zealot) and which ones are unique.

    It's at my random Warhammer info dumping ground site. I just wanted to share since I was originally doing it just out of curiousity but it's turned out to be pretty interesting.

    Right now I have the following done:

    * Archmage vs Shaman
    * Rune Priest vs Zealot
    * Warrior Priest vs Disciple of Khaine
    * Bright Wizard vs Sorceress

    ...and I'll probably be doing/adding more since I'm curious and obsessive.

    Hypatia on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Hypatia wrote: »
    If people are interested, I started working out some tables and things comparing different archetypes, the healers are all done now. Basically they're just some pages with a brief description of how the classes work and tables showing which abilities/tactics/morale abilities both sides have (example: Rune Priest vs Zealot) and which ones are unique.

    It's at my random Warhammer info dumping ground site. I just wanted to share since I was originally doing it just out of curiousity but it's turned out to be pretty interesting.

    Right now I have the following done:

    * Archmage vs Shaman
    * Rune Priest vs Zealot
    * Warrior Priest vs Disciple of Khaine
    * Bright Wizard vs Sorceress

    ...and I'll probably be doing/adding more since I'm curious and obsessive.


    You missed a couple things in my quick glance over the bw/sorc and rp/zealot comparisons. Ritual of innervation and Master Rune of Fury are not the same at all, the Rune of Fury affects all actions, but the Ritual of Innervation only affects attacks. Restorative burst doesn't do what the tooltip says, it's actually +30 AP over 3 seconds per crit. Also, the 7s stun on the BW/sorc rank 3 morales currently does not function, so those morales are just pure damage.

    Ryokaze on
  • HypatiaHypatia Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    You missed a couple things in my quick glance over the bw/sorc and rp/zealot comparisons. Ritual of innervation and Master Rune of Fury are not the same at all, the Rune of Fury affects all actions, but the Ritual of Innervation only affects attacks. Restorative burst doesn't do what the tooltip says, it's actually +30 AP over 3 seconds per crit. Also, the 7s stun on the BW/sorc rank 3 morales currently does not function, so those morales are just pure damage.

    Hm.. the stun seems to work for me on BW, it's just a little bit delayed. I'll double-check on that other stuff though and correct it, thanks!

    Hypatia on
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I've had the stun on both the rank 2 and rank 3 BW morales work before - either that, or the guys hit by it just decided to stand around for 5-7 seconds afterward.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    You guys are the lucky ones!

    I think the last time I tried using it was last week, but the morale 3 never seemed to work snice my target still continued moving and attacking me.

    Ardor on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I've had the stun on both the rank 2 and rank 3 BW morales work before - either that, or the guys hit by it just decided to stand around for 5-7 seconds afterward.

    I have no experience with the BW version, I just sort of assumed that since the abilities were identical, they'd have the same problems as the sorc version.

    Silly me!

    Ryokaze on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    You know what's really useful to a torture doc.

    That tiny useless ranged attack.

    Y?

    Celerity procs off it. (And you get essence)

    So when you can't wade in because you would instantly die you can dart around dotting and snaring.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    You know what's really useful to a torture doc.

    That tiny useless ranged attack.

    Y?

    Celerity procs off it. (And you get essence)

    So when you can't wade in because you would instantly die you can dart around dotting and snaring.

    Black Orc bellows proc off theirs, too. I try to throw alot of choppas, so Toughest will proc and I'll heal myself that little bit more.

    Toothy on
  • Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    I've had the stun on both the rank 2 and rank 3 BW morales work before - either that, or the guys hit by it just decided to stand around for 5-7 seconds afterward.

    I have no experience with the BW version, I just sort of assumed that since the abilities were identical, they'd have the same problems as the sorc version.

    Silly me!

    The Sorceress one works plenty fine on me!

    Of course, maybe it's just magi stunning me? I'm doubting it though. Anywho, I've seen Scintillating Energy stun me on my Order Characters.

    Corp.Shephard on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Toothy wrote: »
    You know what's really useful to a torture doc.

    That tiny useless ranged attack.

    Y?

    Celerity procs off it. (And you get essence)

    So when you can't wade in because you would instantly die you can dart around dotting and snaring.

    Black Orc bellows proc off theirs, too. I try to throw alot of choppas, so Toughest will proc and I'll heal myself that little bit more.

    The best thing is plink plinking the guy just ahead of you and then it catches and your front line catches up to him.

    Mwuahahaha.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • manjimanji Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    so, i've been researching zealot specs and predictably i've been doing it all wrong. post 1.6 the consensus for a 40 build seems to be alch up to aetheric shock, then the rest in DR, with synergy for restorative burst, + direct heal crit and blessing of chaos. it seems to me that only shines from about lvl 29 though. right now (at 22) i've just sunk all my points into witchcraft with no extra tactics or skills for run and gun HoT spam. are there any bettter levelling builds? when would be a good time to switch?

    i have a couple of DoK questions too (despite the fact i can't really play mine until paid server transfers come in :( ) - do tort/ sac DoKs get any benefit from willpower? i presume you're using melee to heal all the time, so it's pretty much worthless. does divine fury help or hinder these builds? it's upping your damage, but reducing your heals...

    manji on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The willpower tactic will cancel the negative from divine fury and go a little bit over, at least I noticed it did at 25.
    100 willpower is not something to sneeze at.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • manjimanji Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    but do you actually need willpower if you're just using rend soul or the AoE hit (i forget it's name), are they not just going off raw dps with no willpower modifier?

    manji on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    They use strength.

    And yes you need the other skills. The direct group heal is non negotiable.

    Cast it.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • manjimanji Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    so, going back to my original question...when i stopped playing my DoK i was tort (i had aspirations to be a CoKDoK), which meant all my gear was all STR and no WIL, meaning my cast heals were mostly useless.

    if i specced to sac (which i'd be inclined to leave until empowered transfer) i presume i'd be in the same boat (hitting stuff for AoE rather than single target rather than casting heals).

    in both cases is the -heal on divine fury in action on the heals caused by damage? even if so, does the extra damage added to the hit and therefore the heal counterbalance?

    manji on
  • IblisIblis Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    manji wrote: »
    so, going back to my original question...when i stopped playing my DoK i was tort (i had aspirations to be a CoKDoK), which meant all my gear was all STR and no WIL, meaning my cast heals were mostly useless.

    if i specced to sac (which i'd be inclined to leave until empowered transfer) i presume i'd be in the same boat (hitting stuff for AoE rather than single target rather than casting heals).

    in both cases is the -heal on divine fury in action on the heals caused by damage? even if so, does the extra damage added to the hit and therefore the heal counterbalance?

    If I recall correctly, HoTs and damage based heals are not effected by the tactic as they are not directly classified as "heals".

    Iblis on
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    Steam Account, 3DS FC: 5129-1652-5160, Origin ID: DamusWolf
  • manjimanji Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    so thats a free dps and heal increase for us non-casting melee healers? quality...

    manji on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Works on rend too.

    And like I said.

    The 1s cast direct group heal is always worth it regardless of spec.

    So is the hot.

    There isn't really a build that invalidates most of a doks skills, they're just not that sort of class. You always use almost everything.

    You should try to keep that in mind.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • ghost_master2000ghost_master2000 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    divine fury does effect DoK hots. I tested it earlier today. Without divine fury I got 191/tick and with divine fury I got 149/tick. I think I might have been using the +10% heals tactic on that other one though so it would have been 173 without it.

    I am half a level before 20 so I dont' quite have the group heal yet, but I have a question. Since it's a 1s cast does it pretty much get shit for contribution from willpower? Honestly with my divine fury tactic on and strength gear I'm healing for 500/tick with rend soul.

    ghost_master2000 on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    It is godly, and after you use it a little bit you will log into pa and proclaim how godly it is and how right I am.

    You may be thinking, how can this worthless heal possibly be godly? Well the reason is that it is only 5 more essence than restore essence, does it immediately, can crit for big heals and only has a two second cooldown.

    It requires no line of sight and heals anyone in your group within it's radius. I have, multiple times, gotten my whole group up from a medium death just by spamming it.

    Like every single dok heal, it wont really save anyone from imminent death, because dok's need to be predicting teammate damage and start healing before half health.

    But it's no line of sight and extreme efficiency just makes it the best heal.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So for Shaman/Zealot would you guys recommend dumping points into Toughness, Wounds, or Wisdom? Big heals are great and all but not being dead is even more useful but I'm not sure if Wounds or Toughness would be more beneficial.

    Accualt on
  • Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Accualt wrote: »
    So for Shaman/Zealot would you guys recommend dumping points into Toughness, Wounds, or Wisdom? Big heals are great and all but not being dead is even more useful but I'm not sure if Wounds or Toughness would be more beneficial.

    Toughness is best. It makes every bit of healing that you do on yourself that much more potent: because each health point requires more to take down.

    A healthy amount of wounds rarely hurts though.

    Corp.Shephard on
  • SarcastroSarcastro Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So, RvR teamwork question: I play a DoK, lovin it, and definately notice I'm more of a battle influencer than any kind of big hitter. I run pretty equal numbers between healing and damage.

    I've noticed though, that I tend to fare a lot better with myself as the defensive target, then healing up tanks around me and hoping they have my back. Is that kosher? How much am I expected to do out there? I get targeted a lot, and although one on one it seems I can take pretty much any single person, it rarely works out that way.

    As a result, I tend to 'assist' quite a bit, A rend for you, a rend for me, etc. But I die a lot, mostly because I'm watching over other players instead of myself- it makes sense, I can save four guys, and only one dies-me. Just curious as to the balance other DoKs strike up in scenarios and RvR play. Looking to die less, while still keeping up a healthy and respectable contribution.

    Sarcastro on
    Edcrab wrote: »
    "See," said Lucifer, "God's an asshole."
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Well what I did was spec for abilities that heal me and them at the same time.

    For example my dark rites build tosses out that group heal as soon as it's cooldown is up without fail.I'm always running around with a heal off that.

    For the sacrifice dok build (I have different sets of gear for whatever mood I'm in), I usually go up and hit somebody near the front line and depend on that to heal everybody.

    The devouring essence rape comes in three flavours, at least three that I have so far tasted.

    Flavour one, run up myself with it on, rend somebody or whack them with consume essence some dots, generally try to kill the, then I do raging syphon.

    This does so much damage it isn't funny and is fun as well. But I don't always live. (Afterwards anyway)

    Flavour two, this flavour has spikes. I find a friend chosen, make him run around with his resistance buff up doing blast wave etc and cast it on him from a safer place, running into do raging if necessary. If they're halfway decent geared it's rarely necessary.

    Flavour three, with crunchy keepy bits. Sit inside wall of keep. Trigger DE, click to go outside, do some damage, when it ends, click to go inside. When the wall falls, I stay at the back and cast it on the orcies and chosenens up fronts, for lols and damages.

    I also cast my big 1s group heal regardless of build lots and lots and lots and lots and...

    I don't usually rend for main healing, only semi emergency situations. It's too unreliable, there's too many ways it can go wrong and you have to think too much.

    I can top 80-90k with my dark rites build without a single rend, and get 40k 40k an a sak with only using it stacked on top of de.

    But it's damned useful for keeping ME alive.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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