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Recommend a PC game for me

ThanatoidThanatoid Registered User regular
edited September 2008 in Games and Technology
First off, the three games I've wanted to play most lately, Bioshock, Mass Effect, and Crysis seem to be DRM'ed to hell. I'm not going to pirate them, but I'm not going to buy (well, rent) them, either.

Some all time favorites:

Half-Life/HL2/etc
Arcanum
COD4
Deus Ex
Morrowind/Oblivion
Titan Quest
Stalker
GTA III and onward
Brothers in Arms
System Shock II

I've like many games ranging from the Blow Shit up FPS, the FPS/RPG hybrid, the Action RPG clickfest, and a few deeper RPGS. Don't like RTS.

Specs: 8800GTS 640mb x 2
5600+ XP dual core
XP Pro x86/Vista Home Prem x64 dual boot
4 gb ddr2

Thanks for your time.

Thanatoid on
«1

Posts

  • GrudgeGrudge blessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Let me just say that you are missing out on a couple of really good games there.

    Grudge on
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Thanatoid wrote: »
    First off, the three games I've wanted to play most lately, Bioshock, Mass Effect, and Crysis seem to be DRM'ed to hell. I'm not going to pirate them, but I'm not going to buy (well, rent) them, either.

    Some all time favorites:

    Half-Life/HL2/etc
    Arcanum
    COD4
    Deus Ex
    Morrowind/Oblivion
    Titan Quest
    Stalker
    GTA III and onward
    Brothers in Arms
    System Shock II

    I've like many games ranging from the Blow Shit up FPS, the FPS/RPG hybrid, the Action RPG clickfest, and a few deeper RPGS. Don't like RTS.

    Specs: 8800GTS 640mb x 2
    5600+ XP dual core
    XP Pro x86/Vista Home Prem x64 dual boot
    4 gb ddr2

    Thanks for your time.


    Mass Effect is barely DRMed. The DRM is for show, and EA will guaranteed always renew your license, most of the time even without an explanation. "I need a renewal. Here's my code, thanks." - ten minutes later you're off installing Mass Effect. Bioshock had it's DRM removed. GET THESE GAMES. I've played Bioshock like 5 times through now, and I'm on my 2nd runthrough in Mass Effect, with my same character, having a blast. After this, I'll start a 2rd character, which I plan to do another two runthroughs with. I started as Vanguard and now plan to do either Soldier or Biotic.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    What is your opinion on strategy games in general?

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
  • bombardierbombardier Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited September 2008
    Bioshock and soon to be Crysis will be on Steam and there is no DRM there at all.

    bombardier on
  • ThanatoidThanatoid Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Grudge wrote: »
    Let me just say that you are missing out on a couple of really good games there.

    So I have heard.

    Mass Effect is barely DRMed. The DRM is for show, and EA will guaranteed always renew your license, most of the time even without an explanation. "I need a renewal. Here's my code, thanks." - ten minutes later you're off installing Mass Effect. Bioshock had it's DRM removed. GET THESE GAMES. I've played Bioshock like 5 times through now, and I'm on my 2nd runthrough in Mass Effect, with my same character, having a blast. After this, I'll start a 2rd character, which I plan to do another two runthroughs with. I started as Vanguard and now plan to do either Soldier or Biotic.
    .

    Good to know. I've spent much less time on the interweb than usual and haven't been keeping up. So, sorry to be obtuse or redundant, but if I install Bioshock and/or Mass Effect, I'm not going to get SecureROM'd or any other such thing?

    Thanatoid on
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  • ThanatoidThanatoid Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    What is your opinion on strategy games in general?

    Well the RTS archetype, Age of Empires (and its clones) really turned me off. Plus, I suck at them. So there's that.

    Thanatoid on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Meh, Bioshock isn't that great, get STALKER instead for the real deal. Mass Effect is pretty cool, but Fallout 3 is just aorund the corner, with Dragon Age hopefully soon to come as well.
    Thanatoid wrote: »
    What is your opinion on strategy games in general?

    Well the RTS archetype, Age of Empires (and its clones) really turned me off. Plus, I suck at them. So there's that.

    Give Medieval Total War 2 a shot. It plays nothing at all like Command and Conquer. Its a turn based/real time hybrid, where the campaign is turn based and the battles are real time.

    In addition to being amazing, it gives you a chance to show off your system's power.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • ThanatoidThanatoid Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Meh, Bioshock isn't that great, get STALKER instead for the real deal. Mass Effect is pretty cool, but Fallout 3 is just aorund the corner, with Dragon Age hopefully soon to come as well.

    Have played Stalker, it was even in my list. Absolutely loved it.

    Thanatoid on
  • KamiKami Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    My vote goes to Bioshock, as it's a more accessible System Shock 2. Steam version has very little, if no DRM to worry about, so you should be good.

    Also, Mass Effect is fantastic, but I'm honestly more hyped for Dragon Age than I ever was for Mass Effect.

    Kami on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Thanatoid wrote: »
    Meh, Bioshock isn't that great, get STALKER instead for the real deal. Mass Effect is pretty cool, but Fallout 3 is just aorund the corner, with Dragon Age hopefully soon to come as well.

    Have played Stalker, it was even in my list. Absolutely loved it.

    Well, then I recommend MTW 2. Yes, its an RTS. No, its nothing like Command and Conquer. Only non-MMO game I play these days. City Building, Empire Building, Character building, real time battles, epic conquest, and amazing graphics in one game.
    tw10.jpg
    fancy.jpg

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
  • shadydentistshadydentist Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    bombardier wrote: »
    Bioshock and soon to be Crysis will be on Steam and there is no DRM there at all.

    Ironic statement, because Steam basically is a DRM framework. Only, we don't complain about it because we get unlimited installs on unlimited computers, auto patching, and a pretty good community function.

    shadydentist on
    Steam & GT
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  • ThanatoidThanatoid Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    MTW 2. Scary, but I might just try it. The reviews I've been speed reading make it sound like a good time. I'm sure the genre has evolved/changed greatly since I played AoEII.

    Bioshock through Steam? Will look into it.

    Side note: Not to derail my own thread (please keep the advice coming, it has been great), but I've always found it strange how I've always been a pretty good (far from great) gamer in most genres, but couldn't beat a drunken lemur in AoE. Well, some mysteries are best left unsolved.

    Thanatoid on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Games you should buy:
    • Bioshock
    • Mass Effect
    • Crysis

    And then after all that
    • Stranglehold
    • Max Payne 2
    • Team Fortress 2 (not sure if this is covered in Half Life 2/etc.)
    • Galactic Civilizations 2

    And Age of Empires is a pretty ancient RTS by today's standards, you might fare better now than you did then

    I suggest Company of Heroes/Dawn of War or Sins of a Solar Empire

    Olivaw on
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    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Yes GalCiv 2 oh my lord such a great game.

    Sins of a Solar Empire is essentially GalCiv lite with a bit more action and better music.

    The_Scarab on
  • -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    You should give World in Conflict a go. It's an RTS but it has a lot in common with a team based FPS in a lot of ways. It's also team based with large teams and having your units die isn't too big a deal (you get the points back and can call in more reinforcements) so loosing isn't nearly as demoralising as in more traditional RTS games.

    -SPI- on
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Thanatoid wrote: »
    Grudge wrote: »
    Let me just say that you are missing out on a couple of really good games there.

    So I have heard.

    Mass Effect is barely DRMed. The DRM is for show, and EA will guaranteed always renew your license, most of the time even without an explanation. "I need a renewal. Here's my code, thanks." - ten minutes later you're off installing Mass Effect. Bioshock had it's DRM removed. GET THESE GAMES. I've played Bioshock like 5 times through now, and I'm on my 2nd runthrough in Mass Effect, with my same character, having a blast. After this, I'll start a 2rd character, which I plan to do another two runthroughs with. I started as Vanguard and now plan to do either Soldier or Biotic.
    .

    Good to know. I've spent much less time on the interweb than usual and haven't been keeping up. So, sorry to be obtuse or redundant, but if I install Bioshock and/or Mass Effect, I'm not going to get SecureROM'd or any other such thing?

    Its not guaranteed that they'll always renew your license, now or in the future. Its still a 'rental'.

    JohnDoe on
  • bombardierbombardier Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited September 2008
    bombardier wrote: »
    Bioshock and soon to be Crysis will be on Steam and there is no DRM there at all.

    Ironic statement, because Steam basically is a DRM framework. Only, we don't complain about it because we get unlimited installs on unlimited computers, auto patching, and a pretty good community function.
    Sorry I meant there's no bullshit DRM at all.

    bombardier on
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Thanatoid wrote: »
    Grudge wrote: »
    Let me just say that you are missing out on a couple of really good games there.

    So I have heard.

    Mass Effect is barely DRMed. The DRM is for show, and EA will guaranteed always renew your license, most of the time even without an explanation. "I need a renewal. Here's my code, thanks." - ten minutes later you're off installing Mass Effect. Bioshock had it's DRM removed. GET THESE GAMES. I've played Bioshock like 5 times through now, and I'm on my 2nd runthrough in Mass Effect, with my same character, having a blast. After this, I'll start a 2rd character, which I plan to do another two runthroughs with. I started as Vanguard and now plan to do either Soldier or Biotic.
    .

    Good to know. I've spent much less time on the interweb than usual and haven't been keeping up. So, sorry to be obtuse or redundant, but if I install Bioshock and/or Mass Effect, I'm not going to get SecureROM'd or any other such thing?

    Its not guaranteed that they'll always renew your license, now or in the future. Its still a 'rental'.

    Yea, pretty much it is. Even the EA Support said so. "There's no policy for denying anyone a renewal, aside from multiple systems. As long as you bought it, you can get it renewed," and plus the ME renewal system is the system tied to all EA games. And if they decide to cut it out fo the support, they'll patch it out of the game. You may run into problems if you're trying to install Mass Effect on a 4th silumtaneous system though. But why the hell would anyone do that? It's the same DRM that Microsoft has. 'Yea, you can install it on multiple systems, but not on like, fifty. That's uncalled for."

    EA isn't satan :-P

    EDIT: Fixed my quote on EA Support

    Desert_Eagle25 on
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  • JohnDoeJohnDoe Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    And if they deicde to cut it out fo the support, they'll patch it out of the game.

    I'll be convinced of this when (and if) this eventuality ever actually has to be put into practice. Until then, I remain highly skeptical.

    JohnDoe on
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    And if they deicde to cut it out fo the support, they'll patch it out of the game.

    I'll be convinced of this when (and if) this eventuality ever actually has to be put into practice. Until then, I remain highly skeptical.

    Bioshock? And if push comes to shove, and all of us optimistic guys get the middle finger, then a crack will be released - so there's no reason NOT to get the game, aside from disliking EA - and disliking someone shouldn't mean depriving yourself of a fun experience.

    And like I said, Mass Effect's DRM license support is tied to ALL of EA's license support servers - meaning that as long as EA is still alive, they will renew licenses.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
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  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    OP: Are you going to get GTA IV on PC? Personally, after playing through the 360 version, I think a PC version with an improved aiming system could be a godsend (EG: No, I do NOT want to shoot the civilian instead of the guy with the shotgun next to me).
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    And if they deicde to cut it out fo the support, they'll patch it out of the game.

    I'll be convinced of this when (and if) this eventuality ever actually has to be put into practice. Until then, I remain highly skeptical.

    Bioshock?

    I am thinking more of the case when a company folds or similar. I am pretty certain that EA can't go out of business though, unless they did something incredibly stupid somehow, but it's really easy to say the above when a company if fully functional and around. With the chaos that ensues when a company goes out of business, patching something out or supporting a game is the last thing that frequently happens (See Iron Lore Studios and Dawn of War: Soulstorm).
    Since I edited my post, here's the recap:

    Bioshock? And if push comes to shove, and all of us optimistic guys get the middle finger, then a crack will be released - so there's no reason NOT to get the game, aside from disliking EA - and disliking someone shouldn't mean depriving yourself of a fun experience.

    And like I said, Mass Effect's DRM license support is tied to ALL of EA's license support servers - meaning that as long as EA is still alive, they will renew licenses.


    Now, in response to your gibb about EA closing. LOL. That's a riduculous statement. Now, lets say all the investors pull and EA somehow has internal armageddon (which is like 1 in 10 million) then worst case scenario, a crack comes out, JUST like every other game that had it's studio close down on it.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    OP: Are you going to get GTA IV on PC? Personally, after playing through the 360 version, I think a PC version with an improved aiming system could be a godsend (EG: No, I do NOT want to shoot the civilian instead of the guy with the shotgun next to me).
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    And if they deicde to cut it out fo the support, they'll patch it out of the game.

    I'll be convinced of this when (and if) this eventuality ever actually has to be put into practice. Until then, I remain highly skeptical.

    Bioshock?

    I am thinking more of the case when a company folds or similar. I am pretty certain that EA can't go out of business though, unless they did something incredibly stupid somehow, but it's really easy to say the above when a company if fully functional and around. With the chaos that ensues when a company goes out of business, patching something out or supporting a game is the last thing that frequently happens (See Iron Lore Studios and Dawn of War: Soulstorm).

    Depending on how the company goes out of business and who its IP gets passed on to, it may not even be their decision.

    JohnDoe on
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    OP: Are you going to get GTA IV on PC? Personally, after playing through the 360 version, I think a PC version with an improved aiming system could be a godsend (EG: No, I do NOT want to shoot the civilian instead of the guy with the shotgun next to me).
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    And if they deicde to cut it out fo the support, they'll patch it out of the game.

    I'll be convinced of this when (and if) this eventuality ever actually has to be put into practice. Until then, I remain highly skeptical.

    Bioshock?

    I am thinking more of the case when a company folds or similar. I am pretty certain that EA can't go out of business though, unless they did something incredibly stupid somehow, but it's really easy to say the above when a company if fully functional and around. With the chaos that ensues when a company goes out of business, patching something out or supporting a game is the last thing that frequently happens (See Iron Lore Studios and Dawn of War: Soulstorm).

    Depending on how the company goes out of business and who its IP gets passed on to, it may not even be their decision.


    Read my previous post. You guys are just fear mongering. This is fucking EA. I dont think you have the slightest idea of the size and scale of this company to be thinking of such things. Here's the point: there's no reaosn to fear - because if you're right or i'm right, there WILL be a fix to a game not working due to DRM, no matter how ridiculously miniscule the chances.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
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  • JohnDoeJohnDoe Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    OP: Are you going to get GTA IV on PC? Personally, after playing through the 360 version, I think a PC version with an improved aiming system could be a godsend (EG: No, I do NOT want to shoot the civilian instead of the guy with the shotgun next to me).
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    And if they deicde to cut it out fo the support, they'll patch it out of the game.

    I'll be convinced of this when (and if) this eventuality ever actually has to be put into practice. Until then, I remain highly skeptical.

    Bioshock?

    I am thinking more of the case when a company folds or similar. I am pretty certain that EA can't go out of business though, unless they did something incredibly stupid somehow, but it's really easy to say the above when a company if fully functional and around. With the chaos that ensues when a company goes out of business, patching something out or supporting a game is the last thing that frequently happens (See Iron Lore Studios and Dawn of War: Soulstorm).

    Depending on how the company goes out of business and who its IP gets passed on to, it may not even be their decision.


    Read my previous post. You guys are just fear mongering. This is fucking EA. I dont think you have the slightest idea of the size and scale of this company to be thinking of such things. Here's the point: there's no reaosn to fear - because if you're right or i'm right, there WILL be a fix to a game not working due to DRM, no matter how ridiculously miniscule the chances.

    Here are some companies that have gone bankrupt.

    Worldcom, Inc.
    Enron Corp.
    Conseco, Inc.
    Texaco, Inc.
    Financial Corp. of America

    They are all bigger than EA. Just because a business is large does not mean they will exist forever.

    JohnDoe on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    And if they deicde to cut it out fo the support, they'll patch it out of the game.

    I'll be convinced of this when (and if) this eventuality ever actually has to be put into practice. Until then, I remain highly skeptical.

    EA sports titles anyone?

    Anyway, let's forget about this and get back to games recommendations.

    For Crysis it's just a CD Key, no remote login or install limits, so you should be fine there.

    If you like RPG's, "The Witcher" is one you might want to look up. They should be releasing a new, "enchanced" edition in a few days, so wait for that one.

    subedii on
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  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Now, in response to your gibb about EA closing. LOL. That's a riduculous statement.

    I know, that's why you should have read it correctly.
    I am pretty certain that EA can't go out of business though, unless they did something incredibly stupid somehow, but it's really easy to say the above when a company is fully functional and around.

    Next comment?

    I can't say anything to this but laugh. Like really, that's a hilarious statement. Even with a cataclysmic event of epic proportions, the EA would not fold. Think of the scale and size of this company and it's partners. Study it's economic background, it's networth, how it operates, it's levels of functionality, and it's business partners. What you're proposing isn't a legitimate outcome, it's fear mongering. And you know what, you're ignoring the second largest part of my argument. Let's say i'm wrong, I'm a little too optimistic. Oh whoops, it doesnt matter, the game crack's been released, no fuss, no foul - you can still play the game. When it comes to the PC industry, the company NEVER has the last word, ever.

    Stop looking for excuses to not play the game because you dislike the companies practices. There's no reason NOT to enjoy it.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
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  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Now, in response to your gibb about EA closing. LOL. That's a riduculous statement.

    I know, that's why you should have read it correctly.
    I am pretty certain that EA can't go out of business though, unless they did something incredibly stupid somehow, but it's really easy to say the above when a company is fully functional and around.

    Next comment?

    I can't say anything to this but laugh.

    Again, you could read what I wrote correctly. I've written, clear as day that I doubt EA could possibly close unless they had some sort of horrible event that ensured that. How you've managed to not read that correctly three times now is really amazing. Again, this is easy to say when a company isn't in trouble and bigger companies than EA have gone down the tubes in the past. I once wrote, a long time ago, that Interplay would be one of the most significant publishers for a long time back when they were producing fantastic titles like Sacrifice, Giants, Fallout and the likes.

    Look at them now. Again, how you've not got the point through your head yet that I am pretty certain EA wouldn't close is beyond me.
    Stop looking for excuses to not play the game because you dislike the companies practices. There's no reason NOT to enjoy it.

    This is a perfectly legitimate reason not to actually.


    Well then that's your choice, deprive yourself of some excellent gamage, for your principles, whever that leads you. But don't try to convince others that they should'nt atleast try some amazing games just because you dislike company practices. I'm not against the fact that others have different opinions. But jesus, why can't I inform someone of the realities of the DRM, (which I have, fully and 100% truthfully) so that they may enjoy a good game without the fears brought upon by a minority of people?

    And regardless of my inability to comprehend your notions of EA failing, as you've eloquently put, you've yet to address MY claims that even if I am wrong and you're right, that in no way, WHATSOEVER, means that their games are no longer playable. In the PC industry, no developer EVER has the last word on these things as long as theres ONE person interested.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
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  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »

    Well then that's your choice, deprive yourself of some excellent gamage

    Blah blah blah blah blah.

    I play TT Warhammer, have 2 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons games, do a PhD in science, have 4 consoles and a computer. I'm not worried about skipping the odd game sorry, it just doesn't manage to bother me because I have so many other things in life I enjoy to fill my time with. Doesn't that just burn you up inside? :)

    Edit: I can afford to have principles I guess :P

    Dude, you're missing the point. You're content, that's fine. But you don't represent everyone on these forums. Unless I'm wrong. And everyone on these forums is your alt. In that case I shouldn't suggest a good game to anyone on this forum, ever. Cause in reality, they're you. Get over yourself, man. You stand for your prinicples, fine whatever, I dont care. Have I told anyone to forego principles for a game? No, i've informed them of the facts, so that they may make an educated decision on enjoying a well crafted game. I don't know if you can say the same.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited September 2008

    And regardless of my inability to comprehend your notions of EA failing, as you've eloquently put, you've yet to address MY claims that even if I am wrong and you're right, that in no way, WHATSOEVER, means that their games are no longer playable. In the PC industry, no developer EVER has the last word on these things as long as theres ONE person interested.

    I'd like to play a game of Madden 2004 with you. Game on?

    Anyway, let's just drop this whole thing. The author of the thread doesn't want phone home DRM, we can accommodate that. We DON'T need to change his frikkin mind.

    subedii on
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    subedii wrote: »

    And regardless of my inability to comprehend your notions of EA failing, as you've eloquently put, you've yet to address MY claims that even if I am wrong and you're right, that in no way, WHATSOEVER, means that their games are no longer playable. In the PC industry, no developer EVER has the last word on these things as long as theres ONE person interested.

    I'd like to play a game of Madden 2004 with you. Game on?

    Anyway, let's just drop this whole thing. The author of the thread doesn't want phone home DRM, we can accommodate that. We DON'T need to change his frikkin mind.


    I think the OP was lost long ago. I made my initial suggestion and then suddenly got trolled over the ever-argued EA-DRM controversy on these forums. And yea, the Madden DRM is incomparable to Mass Effect DRM. Madden servers are intentionally shut off to promote their newer Madden releases, which are played online. Mass Effect DRM is put in place to scare away On-The-Fence-Pirates. Not to mention that the PC-v-Console gmaing formats are dramatically different. While a feature of Madden is shut off to promote online play of their newer releases, no such functionality is threatened in Mass Effect.

    It stands to reason that madden 2004 is still playable, even without the internet feature. Mass Effect DRM is different in that their Support Servers and are connected to all games that require the online activation, regardless of game - so unless this server shuts down for ALL of EA's games, Mass Effect is safe. This is considering, however, that you decide to install it on a 4th system. Should the need arise, this will be patched, JUST as it was with Bioshock. And don't compare Madden to Bioshock either. Madden can't be patched, my friends. The great quality of PC gaming.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape: Torment and the Fallout games are not on your list.
    You like RPGs? Consider remedying that.

    Xagarath on
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