As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[WAR] Tank Archetypes: We're in your PQ, stealing your deaths

1161718192022»

Posts

  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Accualt wrote: »
    Is it just me or do the BG mastery paths seem to have swapped a few abilities with each other?

    Khaine's Warding and Blast of Hatred seem like they need to switch sides. KW requires blocking yet that same path has an ability that requires a greatweapon.

    Elite Training is in the anti-caster line but it improves parry, not blocking. You can't parry magic so it seems like None Shall Pass would be a better fit.

    Just seems odd that the defensive path for BG have no group utility abilities while the anti-caster path has one and the offensive path has two. Short of the two snares at the top, (which is another point for swapping KW and BoH...why do you need two AE snares in a row?) the defensive path doesn't have any debuffs either. Such a selfish, selfish mastery set.

    Dude, being a complete specialist in this game means you get absolutely slaughtered by your counter. I'm talking squished into a tiny piece of black guard pudding. You don't really want to be a complete specialist in this game.

    Having parry lets you wail on the squishies and also tank some damage from the meleers trying to stop you, for example. This is valuable, but not overpowered. Having block would make you completely overpowered versus those squishies.

    If that block one is lower down the tree, then it lets someone choosing another tree get some benefit from the upping of abilities in that tree if they get up to it.

    It's an indication of how you need to play your character, and how they have designed it.

    I can agree the parry one isn't horrible because it could make you overpowered versus squishies...maybe. The others are dumb, though. Like the Rank 4 Morale in what is arguably the greatweapon line requires you to block to receive any benefit. o.O I feel that is an indication of bad design.

    Accualt on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Accualt wrote: »
    Accualt wrote: »
    Is it just me or do the BG mastery paths seem to have swapped a few abilities with each other?

    Khaine's Warding and Blast of Hatred seem like they need to switch sides. KW requires blocking yet that same path has an ability that requires a greatweapon.

    Elite Training is in the anti-caster line but it improves parry, not blocking. You can't parry magic so it seems like None Shall Pass would be a better fit.

    Just seems odd that the defensive path for BG have no group utility abilities while the anti-caster path has one and the offensive path has two. Short of the two snares at the top, (which is another point for swapping KW and BoH...why do you need two AE snares in a row?) the defensive path doesn't have any debuffs either. Such a selfish, selfish mastery set.

    Dude, being a complete specialist in this game means you get absolutely slaughtered by your counter. I'm talking squished into a tiny piece of black guard pudding. You don't really want to be a complete specialist in this game.

    Having parry lets you wail on the squishies and also tank some damage from the meleers trying to stop you, for example. This is valuable, but not overpowered. Having block would make you completely overpowered versus those squishies.

    If that block one is lower down the tree, then it lets someone choosing another tree get some benefit from the upping of abilities in that tree if they get up to it.

    It's an indication of how you need to play your character, and how they have designed it.

    I can agree the parry one isn't horrible because it could make you overpowered versus squishies...maybe. The others are dumb, though. Like the Rank 4 Morale in what is arguably the greatweapon line requires you to block to receive any benefit. o.O I feel that is an indication of bad design.

    Really? That is a bit weird.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Malkor wrote: »
    darkmayo wrote: »
    Hiryu02 wrote: »
    Yeah, it is really strange how many of these Morales/abilities seem to be completely random. For example, the BG Hold the Line! has a 60 sec cooldown that is shared by no other tank.

    Some blorcs are saying that their HtL is completely broken. So its just so random.

    wait really? .... what the fuck, as my BG I always thought that hold the line was kinda stupid since it had such a long cooldown, I mean you cant attack while it is going on. That has to be a mistake.

    My chosen uses hold the line all the damn time. I'm talking if I don't have anybody to snare knockback or anything else to do I hold the line between the ranged and my squishies.

    Dodging or disrupting ~45% of what's tossed your way is huge. Plus people behind you benefit from it and it stacks! With that skill going and people sticking by the tanks your side could kill all the BWs in the universe.

    It's only 15% to people behind you. But as you say it stacks so three dudes doing it gives 45%.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • RubberACRubberAC Sidney BC!Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Wait so you can't attack while using HtL right?
    I guess it's something that is most useful in a well-organized group of people.
    Where I'm at right now, it's kinda like, okay guys run in one at a time, and feed the meat grinder.

    RubberAC on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    RubberAC wrote: »
    Wait so you can't attack while using HtL right?
    I guess it's something that is most useful in a well-organized group of people.
    Where I'm at right now, it's kinda like, okay guys run in one at a time, and feed the meat grinder.

    Nope I always use it. I'm a full toughness/wounds tank, so I can't really damage people. I do utility. I snare people, do tooth of tzeentch, etc, swap out my twisted buffs.

    I'm also a chosen so as long as I'm close to the enemy my .5 aura is doing it's job.

    In addition my job is to make them all want to kill me, so I will often jog straight into the ranged line, they all panick and attack me, and I just hold the line while they fail to kill me and then my team kills them.

    I use it to tank.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    surely you jest

    tanks are made for dee pee ess, not tanking

    Neli on
    vhgb4m.jpg
    I have stared into Satan's asshole, and it fucking winked at me.
    [/size]
  • RubberACRubberAC Sidney BC!Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Glad to hear I can actually do that as a Chosen. That's all i wanted to play one for. Not getting hurt ever.

    RubberAC on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    RubberAC wrote: »
    Glad to hear I can actually do that as a Chosen. That's all i wanted to play one for. Not getting hurt ever.

    Mmmm Orcs are anti melee tanks. Black Guard are anti magic damage.

    Chosen are what they choose to be. They can tank almost anyone basically because they can switch to the appropriate buff, take the right mastery tree. They're just not necessarily better in that role.

    They're kind of a solid base that can go in any direction without being a master of any. It gives you great flexibility.
    The reason why they can tank a whole zerg is just because any other tank has a definite weakness to make up for their specialisation, so any big enough zerg is guaranteed to have that weakness.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Most of the damage I do as a Chosen has nothing to do with my melee weapon. Discordant Fluctuation, Dreadful Agony, Backlash, and Bane Shield make it so that I am a walking porcupine. The best is when someone will kill me then die to the DoTs that occur because they dared to attack me. Makes me feel like I'm playing Pyro.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    One more level till I get backlash. I really want this.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    It's the gift that keeps on giving.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Malkorrrr you play similar to me I think.

    Is mixed defenses worth it. I'm interested because it means I don't have to rely on it hitting, it just automatically comes up when I block. This means I can just hold the line without worrying since you still block/parry normally when you are holding the line.

    But I have heard whispers of the terrible bug word regarding it.

    If it's bugged I might go more discord than corruption and get the anti heal thing for your dot earlier.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Yeah, I'm not even sure if it works. I wish it did because it sounds so good. Hell I'm not even sure if suppression works most of the time. I still use it though. Supression, not mixed defenses.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Man, I just started tooling around with Bane Shield on my chosen. Man it is really a nice treat to use! I especially like how I can mow down some fuckers who beat up on me. Bane Shield + Shield Wall = Win!

    Lucky Cynic on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Bane Shield basically makes the tank line wherever you're standing kinda. At least if you have it protecting your 'allies'.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I really want to try and strive for being a caster killer. Disruption all the way and totally fucking up everyone's plans. :D

    Lucky Cynic on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I really want to try and strive for being a caster killer. Disruption all the way and totally fucking up everyone's plans. :D

    You can be a Caster Disrupter, but being a "killer" means sacrificing the survivability it takes to hang with their casters.

    Zek on
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Zek wrote: »
    I really want to try and strive for being a caster killer. Disruption all the way and totally fucking up everyone's plans. :D

    You can be a Caster Disrupter, but being a "killer" means sacrificing the survivability it takes to hang with their casters.

    Well not really quite a killer in a sense of putting them down, but generally crippling them as much as fucking possible.

    Lucky Cynic on
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Got the AOE knockback on my Swordmaster the other night. My god is that incredibly useful and fun. I feel gimped on my Chosen without it now :P

    HappylilElf on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Shutup. I'll cut you.
    ;_;

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Bah, it rarely gets used on Chosen, they're too busy trying to get White Lions and Witch Hunters off of squishies.

    But launching a trio of Marauders who are trying to kill my buddys Warpriest off the ledge so they have to run alllllll the way back up? I love it.

    I also hate my Chosen right now. But that's because I was doing T3 scenarios with my guild all day and my Chosen is only level 20 so I was effectively doing nothing all day then when people logged I solo'd through Ch10 (maybe Ch11, I forget) which took hours because I couldn't pass up a lvl 20 single handed axe with 42dps and some nice stats. Luckily I can go back to kicking the shit out of T2 tomorrow night with the same friend my Swordmaster duos with.

    That is if we don't opt for launching more Marauders :D

    HappylilElf on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Bah, it rarely gets used on Chosen, they're too busy trying to get White Lions and Witch Hunters off of squishies.

    But launching a trio of Marauders who are trying to kill my buddys Warpriest off the ledge so they have to run alllllll the way back up? I love it.

    I also hate my Chosen right now. But that's because I was doing T3 scenarios with my guild all day and my Chosen is only level 20 so I was effectively doing nothing all day then when people logged I solo'd through Ch10 (maybe Ch11, I forget) which took hours because I couldn't pass up a lvl 20 single handed axe with 42dps and some nice stats. Luckily I can go back to kicking the shit out of T2 tomorrow night with the same friend my Swordmaster duos with.

    That is if we don't opt for launching more Marauders :D

    I use it all the time, I just snare them first. Snare, knockback, usually by then the stupid squishy realises hey he's snared I can run.

    Because they never do when I tell them I am going to snare them oh no.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Registered User
    edited December 2008
    can someone give me the lowdown on tanks in this game? I mean, when it comes to pvp... what are you supposed to do with yourself? just act like a dpser? or try to draw fire and actually tank? when do you wear a shield and when do you go with a 2 hander? how do you go about protecting people? like, all tanks have that ability that protects people standing behind you, right? how on earth can you keep the squishies behind you in an ever-changing melee situation with people running around like crazed badgers?

    I guess I could actually page through these 35 pages to find an answer, but that seems like a lot of work :o

    basically when I play my chosen (who is only level 8, mind you), I get severely depressed at how little damage I can do, at least with my shield out. makes me question why I'm playing him instead of one of my dpsers or healers, who make much more easily quantifiable contributions on the damage and healing meters... but clearly tanks have a point, since lots of people play them, and I'm always impressed at how much of a beating some can take, and how much of a beating some can give out... I just don't quite grasp the mechanics of it - when to use what abilities and armaments and such...

    DiscoZombie on
  • BloodsheedBloodsheed Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    can someone give me the lowdown on tanks in this game? I mean, when it comes to pvp... what are you supposed to do with yourself? just act like a dpser? or try to draw fire and actually tank? when do you wear a shield and when do you go with a 2 hander? how do you go about protecting people? like, all tanks have that ability that protects people standing behind you, right? how on earth can you keep the squishies behind you in an ever-changing melee situation with people running around like crazed badgers?

    I guess I could actually page through these 35 pages to find an answer, but that seems like a lot of work :o

    basically when I play my chosen (who is only level 8, mind you), I get severely depressed at how little damage I can do, at least with my shield out. makes me question why I'm playing him instead of one of my dpsers or healers, who make much more easily quantifiable contributions on the damage and healing meters... but clearly tanks have a point, since lots of people play them, and I'm always impressed at how much of a beating some can take, and how much of a beating some can give out... I just don't quite grasp the mechanics of it - when to use what abilities and armaments and such...

    I can't talk much to the Shield issue, as both tanks I have are 2-hander, but I find the role I most fall into for RvR is that, as a Tank, you are the Front Line. It's your job to push into the enemy lines and drag your team forward with you.

    Your role isn't really to "kill" the enemy (though you certainly can), it's to annoy them and give your DPS a chance to kill them. Debuff them, force their healers to run away or at the very least stop healing the enemy DPS so yours can take them out, make their casters focus on you instead of the things on your team that can do the real damage. The idea is to get in the enemy's face and disrupt their teamwork. The fastest way to lose in RvR, that I've seen, is if your side's Tanks don't push hard enough you will, eventually, end up sitting in your camp/spawn.

    Basically, the idea is as a Tank, you make the battle lines, you decide where you fight. At least that's the way I've seen it, and it's worked so far.

    More specifics will have to be answered by someone more familiar with Chosen, instead of me who mainly knows how to hit stuff (35 Blorc) or hate things very hard (20 BG).

    Bloodsheed on
    Xbox Live, Steam, PSN: Eclibull
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I've said it before but chosen start at 8.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • Hiryu02Hiryu02 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I favor a sword and board tanking style, especially in lower tier scenarios, when you don't have access to all your respective mastery abilities. I try to harass healers, or snare/punt melee dps. I favored tactic of mine is to punt melee or squishies into our own offensive line which proceeds to meatgrinder them.

    If I have a healer in my group, I try and guard them, and punt away stealthers that get on them, otherwise I guard a melee dps or melee healer and go to town.

    Hiryu02 on
    Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Hey I just found a neat thing as part of the chosen master bug.

    Once you get the bug, when the cooldown happens, hit two auras at the same time and both trigger.

    If one of these is the mastery one the cycle happens again.

    So you can always have the mastery up and in emergencies snap on two other auras. Eg resist, toughness. Or resist damage.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Sign In or Register to comment.