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[WAR] - Melee DPS: Schrödinger's Slayers and Choppas

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    parabolaparabola Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I really cant decide between Monstrosity and Savagery. I really really like all the debuffs and bleeds in Savagery, but Monstrosity has the awesome AOE and feels more tanky.

    Monstrosity still gets Touch of Rot, so melee classes are still going to go down quick as a Monstrosity Marauder.

    You do lose Cutting Claw though and i swear by it.

    parabola on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    My biggest concern is the 75% healing debuff that is higher up in the Savagery tree, since its on the same ability that makes them resist 25% of heals cast outright.

    With my Black Orc, my biggest challenge to take down is targets that are getting focused healed, especially in Mourkains Temple, where its almost impossible for the destruction team to get the relic back from the Order spawn point if there isnt someone there to do the healing debuff.

    So it becomes a matter of sticking with Monstrosity for big hits and AOE, or get the Savagery for the crazy killer debuffs. I'm thinking I'll stick with Monstrosity until the 30's or whatever when I can respec Savagery for the 75% heal debuff.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    parabolaparabola Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    My biggest concern is the 75% healing debuff that is higher up in the Savagery tree, since its on the same ability that makes them resist 25% of heals cast outright.

    With my Black Orc, my biggest challenge to take down is targets that are getting focused healed, especially in Mourkains Temple, where its almost impossible for the destruction team to get the relic back from the Order spawn point if there isnt someone there to do the healing debuff.

    So it becomes a matter of sticking with Monstrosity for big hits and AOE, or get the Savagery for the crazy killer debuffs. I'm thinking I'll stick with Monstrosity until the 30's or whatever when I can respec Savagery for the 75% heal debuff.

    Probably not a bad idea. I tend to swap specs a lot depending on what i'm doing though.

    I enjoy both Monstrosity and Savagery... In fact when I spec Savagery i put my other points into Monstrosity and vice-versa.

    parabola on
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    Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Glal wrote: »
    Yeah, the lion's always been buggy when you crossed zones. Of course, before, you just lost the controls... now that they're apparently "fixed" that, the entire lion disappears. It'd be less annoying if you wouldn't need to manually detoggle it, then wait another 15 to get it back.

    I've found that when that happens if I order my lion to attack something(Shift+C) it will teleport back into existence at my side. Still pretty annoying, but not quite as bad as having to resummon it.

    Last Son on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    In my case, the lion appeared again once I jogged back across the invisible border that despawned him. It was quite bizarre.

    Glal on
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    Foolish ChaosFoolish Chaos Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So, as a level 7 WL, I haven't noticed many horrible things about my pet. The only thing I've found that I can't seem to get it to do is run back to me. I can switch its targets, just not call for it to retreat. This is annoying, but I don't really see it as something so horrible that the class is unplayable or anything. It still listens when I tell it to snare and such.

    So, does it just get worse the higher you get or something? I've heard alot of people complain about how horrible the pathing is, but nothing truely specific. Except for that zoning thing, which seems pretty minor unless you are hopping back and forth in open RvR combat.

    Also, awesome moment with the class. I was doing Nordenwatch, and I see a sorc going up to the lighthouse while we are camping Barracks. So I follow her sneaky-like, and when she reaches the hill before the LH, I send my lion up to attack her using her way, while I go around the other side. When I eventually the other side, I meet the sorc face-to-face as she runs away from my lion, presumably thinking that I would be following closely behind the pet, rather than sending it to flank. She gets raped.

    I probally could have beat her without the tactic, but it just shows how the pet can be used for cool distractions/ feints.

    Foolish Chaos on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Click the Passive button once or twice, it'll make it run back to you.

    Glal on
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    ShoggothShoggoth Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    parabola wrote: »
    My biggest concern is the 75% healing debuff that is higher up in the Savagery tree, since its on the same ability that makes them resist 25% of heals cast outright.

    With my Black Orc, my biggest challenge to take down is targets that are getting focused healed, especially in Mourkains Temple, where its almost impossible for the destruction team to get the relic back from the Order spawn point if there isnt someone there to do the healing debuff.

    So it becomes a matter of sticking with Monstrosity for big hits and AOE, or get the Savagery for the crazy killer debuffs. I'm thinking I'll stick with Monstrosity until the 30's or whatever when I can respec Savagery for the 75% heal debuff.

    Probably not a bad idea. I tend to swap specs a lot depending on what i'm doing though.

    I enjoy both Monstrosity and Savagery... In fact when I spec Savagery i put my other points into Monstrosity and vice-versa.

    This is my plan atm, def def can't spec out of monstrosity until much later due to the OMG aoe leveling. Quests and rep go super fast when you can aoe down 4 mobs your level without breaking a sweat.

    My only gripe with monstrosity atm is it's too situational, it just doesn't work with every scenario or when people don't clump up.

    Shoggoth on
    11tu0w1.jpg
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So, as a level 7 WL, I haven't noticed many horrible things about my pet. The only thing I've found that I can't seem to get it to do is run back to me. I can switch its targets, just not call for it to retreat. This is annoying, but I don't really see it as something so horrible that the class is unplayable or anything. It still listens when I tell it to snare and such.

    So, does it just get worse the higher you get or something? I've heard alot of people complain about how horrible the pathing is, but nothing truely specific. Except for that zoning thing, which seems pretty minor unless you are hopping back and forth in open RvR combat.

    Also, awesome moment with the class. I was doing Nordenwatch, and I see a sorc going up to the lighthouse while we are camping Barracks. So I follow her sneaky-like, and when she reaches the hill before the LH, I send my lion up to attack her using her way, while I go around the other side. When I eventually the other side, I meet the sorc face-to-face as she runs away from my lion, presumably thinking that I would be following closely behind the pet, rather than sending it to flank. She gets raped.

    I probally could have beat her without the tactic, but it just shows how the pet can be used for cool distractions/ feints.

    it works in PvE, even though many animations are broken. Most of the time now for example, it looks like my lion just stands next to the mob without moving, but he is infact causing damage.

    In PvP though? Yeah, the lion is shit. It gets stuck on things, stops doing damage for no reason and other times it just teleports into another universe or something because it just dissapears. As soon as I reach 33, I'll be getting the "Loner" tactic for a juicy 25% damage boost instead of my lion

    Zzulu on
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    Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    So, as a level 7 WL, I haven't noticed many horrible things about my pet. The only thing I've found that I can't seem to get it to do is run back to me. I can switch its targets, just not call for it to retreat. This is annoying, but I don't really see it as something so horrible that the class is unplayable or anything. It still listens when I tell it to snare and such.

    So, does it just get worse the higher you get or something? I've heard alot of people complain about how horrible the pathing is, but nothing truely specific. Except for that zoning thing, which seems pretty minor unless you are hopping back and forth in open RvR combat.

    Also, awesome moment with the class. I was doing Nordenwatch, and I see a sorc going up to the lighthouse while we are camping Barracks. So I follow her sneaky-like, and when she reaches the hill before the LH, I send my lion up to attack her using her way, while I go around the other side. When I eventually the other side, I meet the sorc face-to-face as she runs away from my lion, presumably thinking that I would be following closely behind the pet, rather than sending it to flank. She gets raped.

    I probally could have beat her without the tactic, but it just shows how the pet can be used for cool distractions/ feints.

    it works in PvE, even though many animations are broken. Most of the time now for example, it looks like my lion just stands next to the mob without moving, but he is infact causing damage.

    In PvP though? Yeah, the lion is shit. It gets stuck on things, stops doing damage for no reason and other times it just teleports into another universe or something because it just dissapears. As soon as I reach 33, I'll be getting the "Loner" tactic for a juicy 25% damage boost instead of my lion

    The problem with that tactic is that without your lion you have no access to a snare, silence, or stun. I also think my lion contributes more than 25% of my total damage, at least at T2.

    The one trick I've learned in order to make him better behaved is to ALWAYS keep him on passive mode in RvR and just tell him who to attack manually. Otherwise it seems like he chases people back to their spawn point when they respawn if he was attacking them when they died.

    Last Son on
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    KajustaKajusta Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, I set my pet passive for RVR.

    I pretty much have no complaints, other than my pet despawning randomly.

    Kajusta on
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    meatflowermeatflower Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Having a lot of fun with my lowbie WL but on the inside I really want to be playing a Marauder.

    Instant queues or clubbing people with my lobster claw...it's tough.

    meatflower on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Shoggoth wrote: »
    parabola wrote: »
    My biggest concern is the 75% healing debuff that is higher up in the Savagery tree, since its on the same ability that makes them resist 25% of heals cast outright.

    With my Black Orc, my biggest challenge to take down is targets that are getting focused healed, especially in Mourkains Temple, where its almost impossible for the destruction team to get the relic back from the Order spawn point if there isnt someone there to do the healing debuff.

    So it becomes a matter of sticking with Monstrosity for big hits and AOE, or get the Savagery for the crazy killer debuffs. I'm thinking I'll stick with Monstrosity until the 30's or whatever when I can respec Savagery for the 75% heal debuff.

    Probably not a bad idea. I tend to swap specs a lot depending on what i'm doing though.

    I enjoy both Monstrosity and Savagery... In fact when I spec Savagery i put my other points into Monstrosity and vice-versa.

    This is my plan atm, def def can't spec out of monstrosity until much later due to the OMG aoe leveling. Quests and rep go super fast when you can aoe down 4 mobs your level without breaking a sweat.

    My only gripe with monstrosity atm is it's too situational, it just doesn't work with every scenario or when people don't clump up.

    Actually, your Flail ability from the Monstrosity spec line does as much damage as the Impale ability from the Brutality spec line, and doesnt require you to be positioned behind your target, though it does cost more AP.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    doesn't impale ignore armor?

    tyrannus on
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    LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tyrannus wrote: »
    doesn't impale ignore armor?

    I think there's a tactic that allows this, yes, but at base the only difference between Impale and Flail is that the former costs 5 less AP and is positional.

    Ledneh on
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm speccing Brutality because I want the ability which does a ton of damage when a target is under 50%.

    Healers won't run away with a sliver of health anymore :x

    Klyka on
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    Foolish ChaosFoolish Chaos Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    So, as a level 7 WL, I haven't noticed many horrible things about my pet. The only thing I've found that I can't seem to get it to do is run back to me. I can switch its targets, just not call for it to retreat. This is annoying, but I don't really see it as something so horrible that the class is unplayable or anything. It still listens when I tell it to snare and such.

    So, does it just get worse the higher you get or something? I've heard alot of people complain about how horrible the pathing is, but nothing truely specific. Except for that zoning thing, which seems pretty minor unless you are hopping back and forth in open RvR combat.

    Also, awesome moment with the class. I was doing Nordenwatch, and I see a sorc going up to the lighthouse while we are camping Barracks. So I follow her sneaky-like, and when she reaches the hill before the LH, I send my lion up to attack her using her way, while I go around the other side. When I eventually the other side, I meet the sorc face-to-face as she runs away from my lion, presumably thinking that I would be following closely behind the pet, rather than sending it to flank. She gets raped.

    I probally could have beat her without the tactic, but it just shows how the pet can be used for cool distractions/ feints.

    it works in PvE, even though many animations are broken. Most of the time now for example, it looks like my lion just stands next to the mob without moving, but he is infact causing damage.

    In PvP though? Yeah, the lion is shit. It gets stuck on things, stops doing damage for no reason and other times it just teleports into another universe or something because it just dissapears. As soon as I reach 33, I'll be getting the "Loner" tactic for a juicy 25% damage boost instead of my lion

    Yeah, I've only been doing scenarios with my WL, and I've never experienced these problems. It still does its job of snaring and reducing armor. I haven't noticed any lack of damage, though it doesn't do much anyway (unless I get trained to kill I suppose, right?), but it still does its job of making things easier on me.

    Question: Does Coordinated Strike work effectively on a single target? Meaning, it says it does the extra damage if you are within 25ft of your lions target, etc, if you are both targeting the same dood, will it work?

    Foolish Chaos on
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    parabolaparabola Registered User regular
    edited October 2008

    Actually, your Flail ability from the Monstrosity spec line does as much damage as the Impale ability from the Brutality spec line, and doesnt require you to be positioned behind your target, though it does cost more AP.

    The difference being that Impale is ONE hit and Flail is two hits ... and the second hit for Flail can be parried and blocked.

    Factor that with the AP costs, and Impale is the better ability damage wise.

    Guess you need to ask yourself if attacking from behind is difficult.

    parabola on
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    parabola wrote: »

    Actually, your Flail ability from the Monstrosity spec line does as much damage as the Impale ability from the Brutality spec line, and doesnt require you to be positioned behind your target, though it does cost more AP.

    The difference being that Impale is ONE hit and Flail is two hits ... and the second hit for Flail can be parried and blocked.

    Factor that with the AP costs, and Impale is the better ability damage wise.

    Guess you need to ask yourself if attacking from behind is difficult.

    You should always be attacking from behind no matter what when you can, since it negates parry and block. Impale isn't massive damage but it's an efficient spam move. It's also Brutality spec instead of Monstrosity. And there's the Piercing Bite tactic, which only works for abilities that require a mutation, which Flail doesn't.

    Zek on
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    AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, except somewhere like Tor Anoc Knockdown > Knockback and boy does destro have it in spades.
    nothing like A pair of marauders tag team AoE knockdowning your offensive for nearly 10 seconds while a few of their sorc friends nuke the whole area with AoEs.

    haha whaaaaaaat.


    did you just say knockdown is better then knockback in the lava pit of tor anroc, where simply standing too close to the lava will melt you.

    no sir, not even close.

    Angry on
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    AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    the second hit from flail can't be negated. only the first. if you're first hit of flail gets parried or blocked, the second attack doesn't proc.

    Angry on
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    Foolish ChaosFoolish Chaos Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Angry wrote: »
    Yeah, except somewhere like Tor Anoc Knockdown > Knockback and boy does destro have it in spades.
    nothing like A pair of marauders tag team AoE knockdowning your offensive for nearly 10 seconds while a few of their sorc friends nuke the whole area with AoEs.

    haha whaaaaaaat.


    did you just say knockdown is better then knockback in the lava pit of tor anroc, where simply standing too close to the lava will melt you.

    no sir, not even close.

    Yeah, I love to knockdown that blorc who decides to try and jump back to land from one of those pads. Good times.

    Foolish Chaos on
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    parabolaparabola Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Angry wrote: »
    the second hit from flail can't be negated. only the first. if you're first hit of flail gets parried or blocked, the second attack doesn't proc.

    You sure? I swear i've had the second hit negated and not the first before.

    parabola on
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    Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Posting this in the right thread.

    Anyone have a higher level(t3+) White Lion? How does it perform in RvR at that level compared to other Mdps?

    Looking at our skills I'm kind of worried, all of our CC(snare/silence/stun) is pretty much only on the pet's target and our only -healing skill is deep into the Axeman tree. Every other Mdps has a -healing skill baselined, and usally a 2nd or 3rd lower in the tree(2nd skill instead of WL's 3rd). Also for some reason our detaunt sucks compared to a WH. 50ap for 5 seconds compared to 20ap for 15seconds.

    Basically what skills do we get that makes up for the disparity here? Somebody tell me I'm not gonna suck at higher levels.

    Question: Does Coordinated Strike work effectively on a single target? Meaning, it says it does the extra damage if you are within 25ft of your lions target, etc, if you are both targeting the same dood, will it work?

    Yes; if both the pet and you are targeting the same person it will hit them 4 times, its fun watching the number spam.

    Last Son on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, the 5 second detaunt really has me wonder how useful it is. Does anyone really think to use it more than once when they jump into a group?

    Glal on
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    ShoggothShoggoth Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Klyka wrote: »
    I'm speccing Brutality because I want the ability which does a ton of damage when a target is under 50%.

    Healers won't run away with a sliver of health anymore :x

    Funny thing is, I speced out of monstrosity at 23 to check out brutality. Guillotine is the below 50% high damage move and it's not that amazing at lower levels without the rest of the brutality tree to beef it up. Stacking str I had +117% dmg to abilities. It was hitting squishies for around 270 iirc, and critting in the 400s. Sure the crit is nice, and it's a good thing to throw in a backstab rotation but without it critting at my level it just wasn't THAT much more damage.

    I suspect that later with +crit gear and all the perks of the brutality tree it will be much more impressive.

    Shoggoth on
    11tu0w1.jpg
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    GalagaGalaxianGalagaGalaxian Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Angry wrote: »
    Yeah, except somewhere like Tor Anoc Knockdown > Knockback and boy does destro have it in spades.
    nothing like A pair of marauders tag team AoE knockdowning your offensive for nearly 10 seconds while a few of their sorc friends nuke the whole area with AoEs.

    haha whaaaaaaat.


    did you just say knockdown is better then knockback in the lava pit of tor anroc, where simply standing too close to the lava will melt you.

    no sir, not even close.



    It was poor sentence wording, what I MEANT to say is that with the exception of areas like Tor Anroc, I overall find Knockdown much more debilitating than Knockback.

    oops copied the wrong quote... fixed now

    GalagaGalaxian on
    Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults; if you succeed in doing this, tell me how.
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    AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    that i can agree with.

    you ain't catching a runner by punting them away.

    Angry on
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    mere_immortalmere_immortal So tasty!Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Anyone know if the WH's snare wont work if used against a char of a certain amount of levels higher?

    First thing I hit if I'm being ganked, but wanna know if its worth using against higher levels or just give up and prepare myself for a poking.

    mere_immortal on
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    OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The WH snare works on everything so long as you are behind or beside it.

    Oats on
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    GalagaGalaxianGalagaGalaxian Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    And is the ONLY positional attack that does not work with feigned positioning.

    GalagaGalaxian on
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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Argh! Alright, I got this yesterday and I still haven't actually started.

    I got to play the other day on my friend's account, had started a brand new Witch Elf just to mess around, got to about level 5 before I stopped.

    Started reading up on things, though Shadow Warrior sounded really neat, really thought I was going to go with that. But reading up more on WEs, I'm *really* thinking I wanna try one again on my account, much as it seems I shouldn't add to the forces of Destruction.

    Is there any particular server PAers are gathering on Destruction side? I'd love to play around with you all if so.

    Dranyth on
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    Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dranyth wrote: »

    Is there any particular server PAers are gathering on Destruction side? I'd love to play around with you all if so.

    ULTHUAN.
    http://www.thesixmouths.com/index.php

    Kevin Crist on
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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dually noted. When I first started playing around with WEs I thought they felt a lot like Rogues in WoW, just without stealth. Then I find out WEs get a stealth type ability at 10, so...

    I do have a 70 Rogue on WoW, mostly for PvP.

    I'm going to see what I can do about getting my keybinds set up similarly to the way I have WoW set. I use ESDF to move in WoW, this frees up more readily available buttons all around my movement keys for quick access.

    I've even noticed that there are addons for this game already, I wonder if there are any that are particularly helpful to WEs yet. Any suggestions?

    Dranyth on
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    Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I don't have any Addons ATM, though I've heard the assist mod is nice.

    Kevin Crist on
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    Helpless RockHelpless Rock Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So, I rolled a Witch Hunter the other day and have got him to level 8. It's pretty fun and I always get a nice grin off when I use the execution and shoot someone point blank right in the face with my hand gun. However, after going into some scenarios I don't seem to hold much damage and when I think back on Rune Priest I don't remember seeing a WH that high on the damage. I seem to just be put to shame by just about every Range class that's in the scenario even when I run it with a healer friend.

    So, basically my question is what exactly is a Which Hunters roll in scenarios? Which Elves seem to do a drastic amount of more damage then me. Is it just my rank? Does it get better damage wise? What the hell am I suppose to be doing?

    Helpless Rock on
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    GalagaGalaxianGalagaGalaxian Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Give them time, a Good WH will probably never outdamage/outkillblow a good BW, but they're still a force to be reckoned with. Ask the candymancers I tend to do scenarios with how often I've managed to sneak through the raging battle lines and shank the destro playing carrying the ball in Tor Anroc (Always wait for the massive bauble health drop before attacking)

    GalagaGalaxian on
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    BasilBasil Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The easiest way to excel as a melee class off the bat is to accept that you will probably not be able to kill unwounded players one on one and act accordingly. Assist trains don't have breaks, but they do require cooperation to get up to speed.

    If it's wounded and being attacked by at least one other person, go stab it. If it's getting spam healed, either stab something else that's being hit or go scare off the healer for a bit now that he's out of ap. It doesn't matter if that chosen has an ac of -8 if five melee dps are shanking him at once. Trying to take out healthy targets alone in a zerg makes you an ineffectual target, fight with your friends.

    Basil on
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    ghost_master2000ghost_master2000 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    why the hell do witch elves get their healing debuff at 9 and witch hunters get theirs at 35?

    ghost_master2000 on
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    BasilBasil Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The first thing you need to understand about game developers is that they hate you. Deeply, on a very personal level.

    Just by giving one class an ability before they other they can skew player populations and determine class roles through the tiers. It may be that the answer is a simple one, someone thought it would be funny, or it could have been the result of long meetings where dudes threw around statistics from closed beta testing and reached a conclusion so profound that our puny minds would be forever warped and distorted should we ever encounter it's cyclopean girth.

    Good question, really. I figure that everything's designed around the destro overmind being new to starcraft, as if the devs feel that they can not afford to be fair. I already feel sorry for destruction when playing most scenario matches, doubly so since I started as an orc. Can you imagine the sea of tears if Witch Hunters were paper par at all levels? I'm leery of even my White Lion getting it's last bugs ironed out. I can smell the nerf bat.

    The nice thing is that order players are forced to work together by their inferiority complexes, while destro players just wade on in with big muscles and no sweet hats.

    Basil on
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