Honestly, I picked mage more for the pvp. That said, I still have a lot of fun end-game with them, regardless of whether or not I'm first on the damage meters. I just want to have fun.
my only real beef is that there's nothing that really defines them as a class, like how warlocks have demons, priests have heals out the wazoo, hunters have pets, shamans have totems etc.
nothing that is really magey with a capital M
We have utility.
But in battle, it's pretty...er...straightforward. Polymorph, occasional freezing.
Ergo Warlocks should only be keeping beings with soles in line?
Soul* and kind of. Warlocks should be the "dark" caster. Lots of afflictions and demonic spells. So I like where they are. I'm a bit confused why Priests are Shadow AND Holy, but Psychic abilities are considered Shadow I guess. I dunno.
Mages, I'd like to be the "Master of Magic", as they're always described. More mastery over magic. Not "Fire, Frost, Arcane". Drain Magic, Silence(Why the hell do Priests get Silence?), Dispel.
Mages should be the ones with all these magic utility skills like Drain Mana and Dispel Magic.
Honestly, I picked mage more for the pvp. That said, I still have a lot of fun end-game with them, regardless of whether or not I'm first on the damage meters. I just want to have fun.
Maybe I'm just crazy.
Well i'm more into PvE, and when I read the class descriptions a year and a half ago and saw that it said "only the rogue can hope to match the mage's sheer damage output, and he has to be in melee range to do so", then that's kinda what I expected to get. We have utility, yea, but as people have pointed out it's all weird and shit. Portals and teleports are the best spell we have, along with being able to make our own (?!) food and water. Still, We're the class with the lowest base HP points, and when you spec into the be-all-and-end-all damage tree, sacrificing survivability, I'm disappointed that warlocks and even shadow priests manage to equal that damage output. I don't know what other people think about it, but I think it's fair to be on top of damage along with rogues, for single target.
If you're curious, the reason why mages aren't doing more damage than warlocks is because of ignite, and the way it's been changed. At the 70 end-game, this is over 100 potential DPS lost, and man, it hurts.
Two frost mages with Winter's Chill in UBRS for the win.
Usually I don't stack up enough Chills on a trash mob for it to matter before the mob dies. But with two mages we get the stacks up pretty damn quick, meaning +10% crit chance and lots of extra DPS for both of us.
All this talk about masters of magic makes me rember how I was promised that my priest would be a master of charms.
As for mages, I fell they could probably do with a bit of a buff - but to utility, not raw damage. In PvP against a mage unless I get 2-shott'd before I can close the distance (which requires vastly superior gear to me) I can get my silence off, and then you're fucked, because your buffs will be gone in a few seconds and you'll have 2 dots and a mindflay as well as various debuffs by the times silence is up - and then I can still fear.
On a less depressing note, I'm really liking one-on-one PVP.
I dueled some friends last night, a Warrior and another Mage. The warrior...well I'll be honest. Until he started using his shield to Shield Bash me when I wasn't out of range, I was kicking the shit out of him. My friend is in mostly Valor with some MC gear. I'm in what little magister's I've been able to find, and various blues(only cloak, rings, and boots are green now.)
It was...nice, to say the least. I can even hold off Warriors in Battlegrounds who are in BWL/Naxx gear. I can't win unless I catch them off guard AND get a few lucky crits.
Although it's always a Night Elf, and there's never one of those fuckers it seems.
And my MC/random purples and blues Mage friend won 2 out of 3, but I was able to beat her. She was fire specced, so of course my HP went down fast. Third time I finally decided to start with Fire Ward up as well as my Ice Barrier.
It was really really fun to see what I can do in a fair fight, as opposed to "Troll Mage versus the entire Alliance" that BG seems to be.
All this talk about masters of magic makes me rember how I was promised that my priest would be a master of charms.
As for mages, I fell they could probably do with a bit of a buff - but to utility, not raw damage. In PvP against a mage unless I get 2-shott'd before I can close the distance (which requires vastly superior gear to me) I can get my silence off, and then you're fucked, because your buffs will be gone in a few seconds and you'll have 2 dots and a mindflay as well as various debuffs by the times silence is up - and then I can still fear.
Can you iceblock through a priest Silence? 'Cause you sure can't against an imp. Counterspell.
Did you get CSed during a Frost spell? You can Ice Block out of Silence(I do it all the goddamn time), but not when it's on a forced cooldown like Counterspell.
You know, speaking of the whole "Masters of Magic" that mages should be, and giving them more utility, Invisibility and Spellsteal really go a long way for that (IMO).
Can you iceblock through a priest Silence? 'Cause you sure can't against an imp. Counterspell.
Did you get CSed during a Frost spell? You can Ice Block out of Silence(I do it all the goddamn time), but not when it's on a forced cooldown like Counterspell.
That happens to me all the damn time - it dosn't make that much of a difference in the long run I don't think- I'll just fear you the moment you get out of it (It's very easy to tell where someone's going to blink, and it only seems to move half of the time anyway) and without mana shield or ice barrier, it's too hard for a mage to do the amount of damage he needs to before my dot's kill him. I'll also usually chuck up DP on a mage who just iceblocked so sometimes they die faster :P
You know, speaking of the whole "Masters of Magic" that mages should be, and giving them more utility, Invisibility and Spellsteal really go a long way for that (IMO).
Invisibility is worthless. They're so worried about it being overpowered that they've massively limited any usefulness it might have. Want to use it to lower aggro? You can, but you have to stop casting spells for 8 seconds for a negligible drop in threat. Want to use it to escape? You can, but only if you manage to avoid all forms of damage for 8 seconds while avoiding any shields, frost nova or blink. Want to use it to gank someone? You can, but only if you can figure out where they are, because you can only see other invisible people. Want to use it to run past some respawns in an instances? You can, but only if you can make it past them in 20 seconds before it fades.
I'd rather they remove it and give us a new fire damage spell.
Speaking of improvements, I've been thinking about what I'd like to see changed with regards to talents. Frozen Core seems fairly weak in frost (although it's one of the few in that tree that do). I'd rather they change it to Improved Ice Barrier, which reduces the damage you take from periodic effects by 10/20/30% while Ice Barrier is active. In fire, I'd like them to replace Pyroblast (now that they've nerfed it into uselessness) with Flame Barrier, which would be an Ice Barrier that only absorbs magic damage. I don't like the early arcane talents, and I wish they'd get rid of Wand Spec, Arcane Fortitude, Magical Attunement and Magical Absorption, not because they're necessarily bad talents, but because they can't compare to early fire and frost talents.
As much as I love my Mage PvE, I get my ass kicked in PvP. I simply can't do enough sustained DPS before I'm dead. I'm currently level 29 and a 21 hunter kicked my ass.
I'm so pissed right now. It's bad enough being 29 (it seems like every 7 or 8 levels the games starts to become boring, then picks back up into awesometown), but everybody in the Alliance is a dickwad.
You know, speaking of the whole "Masters of Magic" that mages should be, and giving them more utility, Invisibility and Spellsteal really go a long way for that (IMO).
Invisibility is worthless. They're so worried about it being overpowered that they've massively limited any usefulness it might have. Want to use it to lower aggro? You can, but you have to stop casting spells for 8 seconds for a negligible drop in threat. Want to use it to escape? You can, but only if you manage to avoid all forms of damage for 8 seconds while avoiding any shields, frost nova or blink. Want to use it to gank someone? You can, but only if you can figure out where they are, because you can only see other invisible people. Want to use it to run past some respawns in an instances? You can, but only if you can make it past them in 20 seconds before it fades.
I'd rather they remove it and give us a new fire damage spell.
Uh, the point of the discussion we were having was that mages were too pure damage dealers with not quite enough utility for being so-called masters of all things magic. But thanks for the input.
Also, there is a new fire spell. Molten Armor, maybe you've heard of it
Oh, and it's 5 seconds, not 8. I wouldn't call it useless considering you can drop aggro from mobs with it, or use it to drink during a boss fight.
Uh, the point of the discussion we were having was that mages were too pure damage dealers with not quite enough utility for being so-called masters of all things magic. But thanks for the input.
Also, there is a new fire spell. Molten Armor, maybe you've heard of it
Invisibility is a near worthless spell. You are wrong, because it and Spellsteal do nothing towards giving mages more utility. Spellsteal is a combat spell, it's short duration ensures that. Invisibility will prove about as useful as Mind Soothe. Maybe they should give mages an evacuation spell, like wizards and druids had in EverQuest. A fast casting group teleport that sends you to a safe spot in the dungeon (usually the entrance) to prevent wipes. With some tweaks, Dampen and Amplify Magic could be much more useful as well. It'd be cool if we got some more spells that benefited our group, like targeted seals/weapon enchants that we could put on one target at a time.
The 5 seconds must be a recent change. Current reports from beta are that you can't drink during the fade out, either - any action at all beyond moving and playing with the interface breaks it.
And I said a new fire damage spell. Molten Armor doesn't count, because no one will be using it for the damage (though it's nice that Impact can proc off it).
Uh, the point of the discussion we were having was that mages were too pure damage dealers with not quite enough utility for being so-called masters of all things magic. But thanks for the input.
Also, there is a new fire spell. Molten Armor, maybe you've heard of it
Invisibility is a near worthless spell. You are wrong, because it and Spellsteal do nothing towards giving mages more utility. Spellsteal is a combat spell, it's short duration ensures that. Invisibility will prove about as useful as Mind Soothe. Maybe they should give mages an evacuation spell, like wizards and druids had in EverQuest. A fast casting group teleport that sends you to a safe spot in the dungeon (usually the entrance) to prevent wipes. With some tweaks, Dampen and Amplify Magic could be much more useful as well. It'd be cool if we got some more spells that benefited our group, like targeted seals/weapon enchants that we could put on one target at a time.
The 5 seconds must be a recent change. Current reports from beta are that you can't drink during the fade out, either - any action at all beyond moving and playing with the interface breaks it.
And I said a new fire damage spell. Molten Armor doesn't count, because no one will be using it for the damage (though it's nice that Impact can proc off it).
Yeah... you said a new fire damage spell after you edited your post. Anyway, I meant Spellsteal went more in line with the master of magic vibe described in my original post you decided to respond to, but you keep talking from a purely min/max standpoint while I'm thinking more lore-wise about the class.
I'd say Invisibility is quite a bit more useful than Mind Soothe, that's a pretty silly thing to say. Also, I'm calling shenanigans on not being able to drink, considering it says any HOSTILE actions performed or recieved will take you out of being invisible.
Yeah... you said a new fire damage spell after you edited your post. Anyway, I meant Spellsteal went more in line with the master of magic vibe described in my original post you decided to respond to, but you keep talking from a purely min/max standpoint while I'm thinking more lore-wise about the class.
I'd say Invisibility is quite a bit more useful than Mind Soothe, that's a pretty silly thing to say. Also, I'm calling shenanigans on not being able to drink, considering it says any HOSTILE actions performed or recieved will take you out of being invisible.
I didn't edit my post. It said that from the beginning. I care about the lore and flavor of the class, too, but a spell that sits in the back of my spell book without getting any use isn't adding anything.
The tooltip is wrong, and it's been like that through a few patches. If they fixed that, and it really was only hostile actions so that I could still blink, at least, then I could find a use for it. But still, 5 seconds of doing absolutely nothing in PvE or PvP is a lifetime. It's like subjecting yourself Silence or Spell Lock.
Yeah... you said a new fire damage spell after you edited your post. Anyway, I meant Spellsteal went more in line with the master of magic vibe described in my original post you decided to respond to, but you keep talking from a purely min/max standpoint while I'm thinking more lore-wise about the class.
I'd say Invisibility is quite a bit more useful than Mind Soothe, that's a pretty silly thing to say. Also, I'm calling shenanigans on not being able to drink, considering it says any HOSTILE actions performed or recieved will take you out of being invisible.
I didn't edit my post. It said that from the beginning. I care about the lore and flavor of the class, too, but a spell that sits in the back of my spell book without getting any use isn't adding anything.
The tooltip is wrong, and it's been like that through a few patches. If they fixed that, and it really was only hostile actions so that I could still blink, at least, then I could find a use for it. But still, 5 seconds of doing absolutely nothing in PvE or PvP is a lifetime. It's like subjecting yourself Silence or Spell Lock.
Heh, okay, you didn't edit it then. I wouldn't believe you on the tooltip being completely wrong unless I saw it for myself. Also... how would you know it's been wrong for a couple patches if you didn't even know it was reduced to 5 seconds from 8?
5 seconds isn't really a lifetime, it's two frostbolt casts. If you happened to be out of mana in a long fight, you wouldn't be doing jack anyway, so it wouldn't matter. Mages getting a pseudo-feign death is really cool, I think.
They're so worried about it being overpowered that they've massively limited any usefulness it might have. Want to use it to lower aggro? You can, but you have to stop casting spells for 8 seconds for a negligible drop in threat.
Wait, wait, a complete threat wipe is negligible? Rogues have been making great use of vanish in the past, and this provides the same function with a 5 second cooldown(yes, it is actually a new change).
Here's a threat on it. You can do lots of things while fading, like winding up 5 of the 6 seconds of a pyroblast, or bandaging, whatever.
I can certainly see it having limited use in a pvp situation, but for raiding, it seems very good for a base skill.
Edit: Also, if you haven't used it in a fight, it's a very handy way to avoid dying in a sure wipe, like warlocks and hunters can already do.
Yeah... you said a new fire damage spell after you edited your post. Anyway, I meant Spellsteal went more in line with the master of magic vibe described in my original post you decided to respond to, but you keep talking from a purely min/max standpoint while I'm thinking more lore-wise about the class.
I'd say Invisibility is quite a bit more useful than Mind Soothe, that's a pretty silly thing to say. Also, I'm calling shenanigans on not being able to drink, considering it says any HOSTILE actions performed or recieved will take you out of being invisible.
I didn't edit my post. It said that from the beginning. I care about the lore and flavor of the class, too, but a spell that sits in the back of my spell book without getting any use isn't adding anything.
The tooltip is wrong, and it's been like that through a few patches. If they fixed that, and it really was only hostile actions so that I could still blink, at least, then I could find a use for it. But still, 5 seconds of doing absolutely nothing in PvE or PvP is a lifetime. It's like subjecting yourself Silence or Spell Lock.
Heh, okay, you didn't edit it then. I wouldn't believe you on the tooltip being completely wrong unless I saw it for myself. Also... how would you know it's been wrong for a couple patches if you didn't even know it was reduced to 5 seconds from 8?
5 seconds isn't really a lifetime, it's two frostbolt casts. If you happened to be out of mana in a long fight, you wouldn't be doing jack anyway, so it wouldn't matter. Mages getting a pseudo-feign death is really cool, I think.
Unless it drops all threat its not like feign death at all and if you can't eat or drink then its probably for the most part worthless.
I think the problem with mages is that our burst dps can be abusrdly higher and last time I checked was pretty much number one at 70. This is a problem when every spell used in PvE is also used in PvP so increasing our PvE damage without effecting PvP damage isn't that easy.
Yeah... you said a new fire damage spell after you edited your post. Anyway, I meant Spellsteal went more in line with the master of magic vibe described in my original post you decided to respond to, but you keep talking from a purely min/max standpoint while I'm thinking more lore-wise about the class.
I'd say Invisibility is quite a bit more useful than Mind Soothe, that's a pretty silly thing to say. Also, I'm calling shenanigans on not being able to drink, considering it says any HOSTILE actions performed or recieved will take you out of being invisible.
I didn't edit my post. It said that from the beginning. I care about the lore and flavor of the class, too, but a spell that sits in the back of my spell book without getting any use isn't adding anything.
The tooltip is wrong, and it's been like that through a few patches. If they fixed that, and it really was only hostile actions so that I could still blink, at least, then I could find a use for it. But still, 5 seconds of doing absolutely nothing in PvE or PvP is a lifetime. It's like subjecting yourself Silence or Spell Lock.
Heh, okay, you didn't edit it then. I wouldn't believe you on the tooltip being completely wrong unless I saw it for myself. Also... how would you know it's been wrong for a couple patches if you didn't even know it was reduced to 5 seconds from 8?
5 seconds isn't really a lifetime, it's two frostbolt casts. If you happened to be out of mana in a long fight, you wouldn't be doing jack anyway, so it wouldn't matter. Mages getting a pseudo-feign death is really cool, I think.
Unless it drops all threat its not like feign death at all and if you can't eat or drink then its probably for the most part worthless.
I think the problem with mages is that our burst dps can be abusrdly higher and last time I checked was pretty much number one at 70. This is a problem when every spell used in PvE is also used in PvP so increasing our PvE damage without effecting PvP damage isn't that easy.
I thought it did drop all aggro (see that video I posted earlier)
You're right Fal--I mean, khain. It isn't easy. But Blizzard has handled it pretty well, making mages deal with mana efficiency, battle longetivity, and spell-hit.
Also, considering Invisibility takes you out of combat, yes it is a full aggro wipe on everything.
Here's a thread on it. You can do lots of things while fading, like winding up 5 of the 6 seconds of a pyroblast, or bandaging, whatever.
From the first post in that thread,
I think it definitely still needs some restrictions relaxed to make it fun, useful, and keep it balanced in both PvE and PvP.
In fact, my feelings about it can be summed up by the third post down.
Some people may like it. Heck, there's probably some super counter-whiner somewhere who would try to convince you that it's overpowered and needs to be nerfed. As for me? I despise how insulting it is to have a spell that gives your opponents as much of an advantage as it gives you.
There are plenty of ways to improve the spell for PvP without making it more powerful in PvE, like allowing you to blink while fading, and making so that absorbed damage doesn't interrupt it. I'm not opposed to the idea of Invisibility at all, and I'm sure I'll end up using whatever the final version is. It's certainly not up to par right now, though.
Also, did mages really have that big of an aggro problem in high end raiding? I never raided anything beyond BWL, but with Frost Channeling, moderated casting which I was doing for mana efficiency anyway, and with lessing of Salvation soon available to both factions, I can't imagine it's as necessary as you make it out to be, JAEF.
The big mage aggro problem came from rolling ignite credit. Which can't happen anymore. However, their talented threat reductions did get a slight nerf, so they will be doing a good bit more threat than before (assuming similar specs).
They could still use the aggro dump, but it's not like they had it as bad as warlocks when it comes to threat management.
Ok there seems to be some confusion on invisibility. Having used it in every scenario, I will breakdown whats going on.
The Fadeout
1. It is 5 seconds.
2. You may take no action other than moving.
3. You can take no damage or it cancels (including absorbed damage)
4. You can not be healed during this or it cancels
5. You lose a small amount of aggro during the fade.
6. If it cancels, the 5 min cooldown starts up.
The Invisiblity
1. Lasts 20 secs
2. You go out of combat
3. If fighting a boss, the combat tick pulls you out before you can drink. Think vanish, not feign death.
4. Any action other than moving is deemed hostile.
5. You can not see anyone else who cant see you. You can see your party members now, in the same way you can see stealthed rogues in your party now.
So, if you can avoid getting hit for 5 secs and do nothing but run, you have another escape spell.
Spellsteal
1. Expensive mana-wise
2. If you steal a buff you already have, the 2min version replaces it.
3. VERY expensive mana-wise.
4. Cant steal fun buffs like ghost wolf.
5. PvE, all spells that can be stolen can be cast by a priest MCing the mob, for the full duration.
6. So far, none of the new bosses have anything worth stealing.
7. PvP more often than not I get useless buffs like water breathing.
The big mage aggro problem came from rolling ignite credit. Which can't happen anymore. However, their talented threat reductions did get a slight nerf, so they will be doing a good bit more threat than before (assuming similar specs).
They could still use the aggro dump, but it's not like they had it as bad as warlocks when it comes to threat management.
Even with rolling ignites as long as you weren't stupid there wasn't a threat problem at all.
Ok there seems to be some confusion on invisibility. Having used it in every scenario, I will breakdown whats going on.
The Fadeout
1. It is 5 seconds. 2. You may take no action other than moving.
3. You can take no damage or it cancels (including absorbed damage)
4. You can not be healed during this or it cancels
5. You lose a small amount of aggro during the fade. 6. If it cancels, the 5 min cooldown starts up.
The Invisiblity
1. Lasts 20 secs
2. You go out of combat
3. If fighting a boss, the combat tick pulls you out before you can drink. Think vanish, not feign death.
4. Any action other than moving is deemed hostile.
5. You can not see anyone else who cant see you. You can see your party members now, in the same way you can see stealthed rogues in your party now.
So, if you can avoid getting hit for 5 secs and do nothing but run, you have another escape spell.
During the Fade 2, 3, 4 and 6 seem retarded to me. You should be able to be healed, do HoTs break it as well? You should be able to at the very least blink be able to do anything would be better though. Absorbed damage also shouldn't count in my opinion. And using the cd for a failed spell just seems lame to me.
Rolling ignites were never a problem for me, and it wasnt unusual to see 5k plus ignites.
The points you pulled up are what make the spell worthless even as an aggro drop. If you could hit invis and bandage, that would be an alright aggro drop. But yeah, I want this spell to be buffed, or removed and replaced with something WORTHWHILE.
Same with spellsteal, its freaking useless. The only buff you want to steal is a hot, and the priests and druids Ive fought have wisened up and fake you out with a rank 1.
Spellsteal - Rank 1
Requires Level 70 474 Mana 30 yd range
Instant cast
Steals a beneficial magic effect from the target. This effect lasts a maximum of 2 min.
As far as I know, there isn't one. It uses a shitload of mana though (35ish% I think?), which keeps it from being spammed.
29% of BASE mana, as in 29% of the mana pool you'd have without any equipment or buffs on. Which even for a mage shouldn't be that much, really.
29% is pretty huge when the buff lasts two minutes max and you don't get to choose. Does anyone know what the priority of buffs stolen is? I could it see it at least being decent if they prioritize it so you get the best buff off the person, but if its random or the order sucks then the spell just isn't very good.
29% is pretty huge when the buff lasts two minutes max and you don't get to choose. Does anyone know what the priority of buffs stolen is? I could it see it at least being decent if they prioritize it so you get the best buff off the person, but if its random or the order sucks then the spell just isn't very good.
3. If fighting a boss, the combat tick pulls you out before you can drink. Think vanish, not feign death.
And if you try to drink the very moment that you become invisible? If there's even a very brief period where you're out of combat, it's good enough to start drinking, and you can continue to do so while in combat.
I assume you've played on the most recent beta version since you quote the 5 second change as well. Can you specifically confirm or deny that you can start to cast a spell, and it doesn't count as a "hostile" action until the spell is cast? If that is the case, you waste, 2-2.5 seconds at most from the invis.
I'd also be curious to know the specifics of how much of your threat is reduced at each second of the fade. If you're lucky, it's still a sizeable amount so that if you're unwilling or unable to go the full 5 seconds, you could still dump maybe 20% or more.
And even if the fade really is that restrictive(it certainly shouldn't be) I still see value in invisibility. If a boss has any sort of regular partial de-aggro on the tank, then it's no longer just an issue of you having a good tank that can out-threat you. And I don't think basing the threat issues on the current game is really a good idea. Warlocks will be using a 50% threat reducer in pretty much every boss encounter once they get it, feral druids will have a higher baseline threat reduction, and rogues will have anesthetic poison to give them greater reduction(OMG but it's useless)
Posts
Maybe I'm just crazy.
We have utility.
But in battle, it's pretty...er...straightforward. Polymorph, occasional freezing.
Soul* and kind of. Warlocks should be the "dark" caster. Lots of afflictions and demonic spells. So I like where they are. I'm a bit confused why Priests are Shadow AND Holy, but Psychic abilities are considered Shadow I guess. I dunno.
Mages, I'd like to be the "Master of Magic", as they're always described. More mastery over magic. Not "Fire, Frost, Arcane". Drain Magic, Silence(Why the hell do Priests get Silence?), Dispel.
Mages should be the ones with all these magic utility skills like Drain Mana and Dispel Magic.
Well i'm more into PvE, and when I read the class descriptions a year and a half ago and saw that it said "only the rogue can hope to match the mage's sheer damage output, and he has to be in melee range to do so", then that's kinda what I expected to get. We have utility, yea, but as people have pointed out it's all weird and shit. Portals and teleports are the best spell we have, along with being able to make our own (?!) food and water. Still, We're the class with the lowest base HP points, and when you spec into the be-all-and-end-all damage tree, sacrificing survivability, I'm disappointed that warlocks and even shadow priests manage to equal that damage output. I don't know what other people think about it, but I think it's fair to be on top of damage along with rogues, for single target.
If you're curious, the reason why mages aren't doing more damage than warlocks is because of ignite, and the way it's been changed. At the 70 end-game, this is over 100 potential DPS lost, and man, it hurts.
Usually I don't stack up enough Chills on a trash mob for it to matter before the mob dies. But with two mages we get the stacks up pretty damn quick, meaning +10% crit chance and lots of extra DPS for both of us.
As for mages, I fell they could probably do with a bit of a buff - but to utility, not raw damage. In PvP against a mage unless I get 2-shott'd before I can close the distance (which requires vastly superior gear to me) I can get my silence off, and then you're fucked, because your buffs will be gone in a few seconds and you'll have 2 dots and a mindflay as well as various debuffs by the times silence is up - and then I can still fear.
I dueled some friends last night, a Warrior and another Mage. The warrior...well I'll be honest. Until he started using his shield to Shield Bash me when I wasn't out of range, I was kicking the shit out of him. My friend is in mostly Valor with some MC gear. I'm in what little magister's I've been able to find, and various blues(only cloak, rings, and boots are green now.)
It was...nice, to say the least. I can even hold off Warriors in Battlegrounds who are in BWL/Naxx gear. I can't win unless I catch them off guard AND get a few lucky crits.
Although it's always a Night Elf, and there's never one of those fuckers it seems.
And my MC/random purples and blues Mage friend won 2 out of 3, but I was able to beat her. She was fire specced, so of course my HP went down fast. Third time I finally decided to start with Fire Ward up as well as my Ice Barrier.
It was really really fun to see what I can do in a fair fight, as opposed to "Troll Mage versus the entire Alliance" that BG seems to be.
Did you get CSed during a Frost spell? You can Ice Block out of Silence(I do it all the goddamn time), but not when it's on a forced cooldown like Counterspell.
Edit: Wait, never mind, if you're silenced and counterspelled you're fucked.
That happens to me all the damn time - it dosn't make that much of a difference in the long run I don't think- I'll just fear you the moment you get out of it (It's very easy to tell where someone's going to blink, and it only seems to move half of the time anyway) and without mana shield or ice barrier, it's too hard for a mage to do the amount of damage he needs to before my dot's kill him. I'll also usually chuck up DP on a mage who just iceblocked so sometimes they die faster :P
I'd rather they remove it and give us a new fire damage spell.
Speaking of improvements, I've been thinking about what I'd like to see changed with regards to talents. Frozen Core seems fairly weak in frost (although it's one of the few in that tree that do). I'd rather they change it to Improved Ice Barrier, which reduces the damage you take from periodic effects by 10/20/30% while Ice Barrier is active. In fire, I'd like them to replace Pyroblast (now that they've nerfed it into uselessness) with Flame Barrier, which would be an Ice Barrier that only absorbs magic damage. I don't like the early arcane talents, and I wish they'd get rid of Wand Spec, Arcane Fortitude, Magical Attunement and Magical Absorption, not because they're necessarily bad talents, but because they can't compare to early fire and frost talents.
I'm so pissed right now. It's bad enough being 29 (it seems like every 7 or 8 levels the games starts to become boring, then picks back up into awesometown), but everybody in the Alliance is a dickwad.
Also, there is a new fire spell. Molten Armor, maybe you've heard of it
Oh, and it's 5 seconds, not 8. I wouldn't call it useless considering you can drop aggro from mobs with it, or use it to drink during a boss fight.
The 5 seconds must be a recent change. Current reports from beta are that you can't drink during the fade out, either - any action at all beyond moving and playing with the interface breaks it.
And I said a new fire damage spell. Molten Armor doesn't count, because no one will be using it for the damage (though it's nice that Impact can proc off it).
I'd say Invisibility is quite a bit more useful than Mind Soothe, that's a pretty silly thing to say. Also, I'm calling shenanigans on not being able to drink, considering it says any HOSTILE actions performed or recieved will take you out of being invisible.
The tooltip is wrong, and it's been like that through a few patches. If they fixed that, and it really was only hostile actions so that I could still blink, at least, then I could find a use for it. But still, 5 seconds of doing absolutely nothing in PvE or PvP is a lifetime. It's like subjecting yourself Silence or Spell Lock.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/219/magistersxx3.png
http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/1157/netherwindon9.png
still no hope for arcanist's or (errgh) frostfire though
actually this answers a rather massive gripe i had with mages
5 seconds isn't really a lifetime, it's two frostbolt casts. If you happened to be out of mana in a long fight, you wouldn't be doing jack anyway, so it wouldn't matter. Mages getting a pseudo-feign death is really cool, I think.
To be honest, Netherwind and Magister's look fantastically stupid on every race.
Wait, wait, a complete threat wipe is negligible? Rogues have been making great use of vanish in the past, and this provides the same function with a 5 second cooldown(yes, it is actually a new change).
Here's a threat on it. You can do lots of things while fading, like winding up 5 of the 6 seconds of a pyroblast, or bandaging, whatever.
I can certainly see it having limited use in a pvp situation, but for raiding, it seems very good for a base skill.
Edit: Also, if you haven't used it in a fight, it's a very handy way to avoid dying in a sure wipe, like warlocks and hunters can already do.
Unless it drops all threat its not like feign death at all and if you can't eat or drink then its probably for the most part worthless.
I think the problem with mages is that our burst dps can be abusrdly higher and last time I checked was pretty much number one at 70. This is a problem when every spell used in PvE is also used in PvP so increasing our PvE damage without effecting PvP damage isn't that easy.
Also, considering Invisibility takes you out of combat, yes it is a full aggro wipe on everything.
Also, did mages really have that big of an aggro problem in high end raiding? I never raided anything beyond BWL, but with Frost Channeling, moderated casting which I was doing for mana efficiency anyway, and with lessing of Salvation soon available to both factions, I can't imagine it's as necessary as you make it out to be, JAEF.
They could still use the aggro dump, but it's not like they had it as bad as warlocks when it comes to threat management.
The Fadeout
1. It is 5 seconds.
2. You may take no action other than moving.
3. You can take no damage or it cancels (including absorbed damage)
4. You can not be healed during this or it cancels
5. You lose a small amount of aggro during the fade.
6. If it cancels, the 5 min cooldown starts up.
The Invisiblity
1. Lasts 20 secs
2. You go out of combat
3. If fighting a boss, the combat tick pulls you out before you can drink. Think vanish, not feign death.
4. Any action other than moving is deemed hostile.
5. You can not see anyone else who cant see you. You can see your party members now, in the same way you can see stealthed rogues in your party now.
So, if you can avoid getting hit for 5 secs and do nothing but run, you have another escape spell.
Spellsteal
1. Expensive mana-wise
2. If you steal a buff you already have, the 2min version replaces it.
3. VERY expensive mana-wise.
4. Cant steal fun buffs like ghost wolf.
5. PvE, all spells that can be stolen can be cast by a priest MCing the mob, for the full duration.
6. So far, none of the new bosses have anything worth stealing.
7. PvP more often than not I get useless buffs like water breathing.
Even with rolling ignites as long as you weren't stupid there wasn't a threat problem at all.
During the Fade 2, 3, 4 and 6 seem retarded to me. You should be able to be healed, do HoTs break it as well? You should be able to at the very least blink be able to do anything would be better though. Absorbed damage also shouldn't count in my opinion. And using the cd for a failed spell just seems lame to me.
The points you pulled up are what make the spell worthless even as an aggro drop. If you could hit invis and bandage, that would be an alright aggro drop. But yeah, I want this spell to be buffed, or removed and replaced with something WORTHWHILE.
Same with spellsteal, its freaking useless. The only buff you want to steal is a hot, and the priests and druids Ive fought have wisened up and fake you out with a rank 1.
Also, my unit frames show how much the target gets healed for. If I only see "+7" every two seconds I'm not yoinking it.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
29% of BASE mana, as in 29% of the mana pool you'd have without any equipment or buffs on. Which even for a mage shouldn't be that much, really.
:?:
Or is that completely out of date?
29% is pretty huge when the buff lasts two minutes max and you don't get to choose. Does anyone know what the priority of buffs stolen is? I could it see it at least being decent if they prioritize it so you get the best buff off the person, but if its random or the order sucks then the spell just isn't very good.
And if you try to drink the very moment that you become invisible? If there's even a very brief period where you're out of combat, it's good enough to start drinking, and you can continue to do so while in combat.
I assume you've played on the most recent beta version since you quote the 5 second change as well. Can you specifically confirm or deny that you can start to cast a spell, and it doesn't count as a "hostile" action until the spell is cast? If that is the case, you waste, 2-2.5 seconds at most from the invis.
I'd also be curious to know the specifics of how much of your threat is reduced at each second of the fade. If you're lucky, it's still a sizeable amount so that if you're unwilling or unable to go the full 5 seconds, you could still dump maybe 20% or more.
And even if the fade really is that restrictive(it certainly shouldn't be) I still see value in invisibility. If a boss has any sort of regular partial de-aggro on the tank, then it's no longer just an issue of you having a good tank that can out-threat you. And I don't think basing the threat issues on the current game is really a good idea. Warlocks will be using a 50% threat reducer in pretty much every boss encounter once they get it, feral druids will have a higher baseline threat reduction, and rogues will have anesthetic poison to give them greater reduction(OMG but it's useless)
Invis is instant cast that has a duration for it to take effect.