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MSNBC: "Lolicon isn't pedophilia" me: *barfs*

TrellTrell __BANNED USERS regular
edited September 2008 in Social Entropy++
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26639577/
More Americans drawn to the 'moral-free zone' of cute, sexual comics
By Brian Alexander
MSNBC contributor
updated 7:35 a.m. CT, Thurs., Sept. 11, 2008

Anybody who doubts the rapidly growing influence of Japan's erotic cultural imports in the U.S. only has to spend a little time playing with a Hello Kitty vibrator while reading a fan-created pornographic Pokemon comic — or visit a “maid café” (now available near Los Angeles and Canada) where the waitresses all dress in costume — to realize it's not just a fringe subculture anymore.

There is a good argument to be made, based on those characters alone, that we are all “turning Japanese” as the '80s song goes — especially sexually.

These cartoony, sexualized characters are all part of otaku culture. Otaku is a Japanese word that has evolved from meaning "techno-geek" to describing devoted fans who pore over Japanese animation (anime), manga (graphic books), hentai (erotic comics) and other comics-derived media. As the recent fashion collaboration of designer Marc Jacobs and Japanese artist Takashi Murakami illustrates, otaku culture has become entrenched in the hip American mainstream.

When anime conventions started in the U.S. back in the mid-1990s, the main demographic was mostly Asian college-age male students, says 32-year-old otaku expert Lawrence Eng. “Now, at least 50 percent are female," he says. "Fandom itself is more diverse than ever.”

Within the adult realm of otaku culture, cuteness is fetishized (hence the Hello Kitty sex toys) and gender is often bent or dissolves altogether. Women are penetrated by octopi and young women in short school-girl skirts save the world. Men, on the other hand, are often passive worshipers of small figurines depicting sexy characters.

Of course, not all anime and manga is overtly sexual — a lot of it is meant for children. Even some adult anime isn’t sexualized any more than, say, Wonder Woman (who was created as a dominatrix bondage fantasy.)

But sexually-suggestive and explicit anime like "Gurren Lagann" and "Legend of the Overfiend," is finding an eager audience of adult Americans who are drawn to the post-modern, almost post-human mash-up of playful, blurry morality found in the genre.

“The appeal of Japanese pop culture [to Americans] is that it is a moral-free zone,” explains Patrick Macias, editor in chief of Otaku USA, a bi-monthly magazine with a circulation of approximately 60,000. “The ideas of good/bad, right/wrong, that duality is not present.”

Lolita-complex culture
Yet while adult anime may be fascinating because it pushes the edges of normal reality, there is enormous potential to be misunderstood. Because some of the edgier elements such as “Lolicon” (or Lolicom, a combination of “Lolita” and “comic”) involve very young anime girls in erotic situations, adult otaku media is a “really sensitive topic,” in the U.S., says Macias.

“When we hit those images, we are really kind of on an abyss,” Macias says.

In fact, trying to explain the appeal of Lolicon has become a serious field for a few sociologists.

The appeal may rest in blooming eroticism, some theorize. Or, as British sociologist Sharon Kinsella suggests, the Lolita-complex anime culture appeals because it's rebellious. “Depictions of sexual deviance and uncontained energy projected onto girls in stories in boy’s comics ... contain an antiauthoritarian impulse that gains intense vicarious pleasure from viewing scenes of social chaos, misbehaviour and sensual liberation,” she has written.

Whatever it is, for a true otaku, Eng says, it is not pedophilia. “Fans abhor young looking [real-life] models,” he said. “They abhor real child porn. They do not want to be associated with that stuff.”

For example, on a Lolicon chat board recently, someone posted a Japanese DVD cover showing real schoolgirls, around 8 years old, dressed in uniforms, showing their panties, smiling, giggling. The community was outraged and urged harsh punishment for the makers of the DVD, arguing that there is a vast and important difference between “2-D” and “3-D.”

More satisfying than real life
Some otaku do try to transform the cartoon objects of their affection into 3-D by buying figurines of sexy anime characters, or of “Japanese idols,” often female pop stars or bikini models.

That may be the biggest Japanese influence on American sex. In otaku culture, gender is increasingly fluid and interchangeable. Play and fantasy are more important than actually having sex with a real person. Among some otaku, love and sex in the anime realm become vicarious experiences, more satisfying than real life, Macias says.

“Among Japanese fans — the guys — it is a badge of honor to say, ‘We do not need real women; [these] figures are better, they do not talk back’” said Macias. “Americans are not there yet, but at the rate things are going, we are going to be seeing that.”

American fans may not go that far — at U.S. conventions, for example, otaku men and women socialize, date and sometimes actually fall in love, unlike their loner Japanese counterparts. But in both cultures, Eng believes, the expanding popularity of otaku is a positive reaction to the problems of global alienation, mass culture’s assault on individual identity, changed gender roles, and “the lack of satisfactory grand narratives.”

Macias agrees and has little doubt that otaku will influence attitudes about sexual expression here. “When you see a kid sitting in Borders reading a manga, he’s not just reading a comic book,” Macias said. “There is something really powerful going on there.”

Brian Alexander is the author of the new book “America Unzipped: In Search of Sex and Satisfaction."
© 2008 MSNBC Interactive

:O

ori's modding is stupid and arbitrary and based on no actual rule system but rather wind patterns and astrology.
Trell on
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    potatoepotatoe Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    man i'm seeing spots

    what the fuck is up with my eyes

    potatoe on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Oh hey guys what's going on in this thread.




    loliconprimecg9.jpg

    DarkPrimus on
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    haha, "These figures are better, they do not talk back."

    Like all women should be am I right fellas? Dames need to keep their traps shut before I give 'em a knuckle sandwich for gabbin' on too much.

    Moriveth on
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    MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    hey well at least you can't breed with sailor moon dolls

    Meissnerd on
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    FutoreFutore Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    America is so incredibly sexually frustrated. It's sad

    Futore on
    ETqXK.png
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    BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    “Among Japanese fans — the guys — it is a badge of honor to say, ‘We do not need real women; [these] figures are better, they do not talk back’” said Macias. “Americans are not there yet, but at the rate things are going, we are going to be seeing that.”

    America will never really be to those levels simply because our culture doesn't think a 10 to 1 ratio of men to women is a good idea.

    Well, unless you're up to Katchem-Ash levels of Japanese fandom.

    BYToady on
    Battletag BYToady#1454
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    TrellTrell __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    Futore wrote: »
    America is so incredibly sexually frustrated. It's sad

    what, because it's taboo to jack it to 8 year old cartoon girls?

    Trell on
    ori's modding is stupid and arbitrary and based on no actual rule system but rather wind patterns and astrology.
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Oh great, mainstream media has noticed the problem and they're making it worse.

    Centipede Damascus on
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    BibbleBibble __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    pony where art thou

    Bibble on
    2jezcsmjpg.gif
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    redheadredhead Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    this is a really misleading thread title

    for one, the article hardly mentions pedophilia at all

    and when it does, it's not msnbc's opinion that lolicon isn't the same as pedophilia, it's that of the dude they're quoting

    and when it comes right down to it, yeah, that stuff is pretty weird, but it also pretty much isn't the same thing as pedophilia, as far as I can tell

    so I guess I don't understand the "barf" either, as distasteful as the subject may be

    redhead on
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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Moriveth wrote: »
    haha, "These figures are better, they do not talk back."

    Like all women should be am I right fellas? Dames need to keep their traps shut before I give 'em a knuckle sandwich for gabbin' on too much.

    Quit razzin' the dolls Mori

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
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    MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I love how they omit the role tentacles play in japanese anime porn

    i also love that tentacles play such a large role in japanese anime porn

    this is all hilarious

    Meissnerd on
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    BibbleBibble __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    sorry but i just dont see the purpose of this thread when goatmon and pony cannot argue

    Bibble on
    2jezcsmjpg.gif
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Moriveth wrote: »
    haha, "These figures are better, they do not talk back."

    Like all women should be am I right fellas? Dames need to keep their traps shut before I give 'em a knuckle sandwich for gabbin' on too much.

    Quit razzin' the dolls Mori

    Aw, shut up ya big galoot. The ladies need to know a man's in charge and I'm the guy here to do it.

    Moriveth on
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    in the future, everyone is a weeaboo

    Centipede Damascus on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Meissnerd wrote: »
    I love how they omit the role tentacles play in japanese anime porn

    i also love that tentacles play such a large role in japanese anime porn

    this is all hilarious

    Tentacles were all the rage because up until recently the laws pertaining to censorship of male genitalia were super-restrictive.

    Now I guess they've just become accepted.

    DarkPrimus on
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I like anime, otaku carries a negative connotation though.

    This one time I was talking about Lain and this kid came up all nasal voicey 'Oh are you an otaku too?! i love Lain she is so Kawaii!'

    Talk about awkward.

    I hope he killed himself.

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Moriveth wrote: »
    haha, "These figures are better, they do not talk back."

    Like all women should be am I right fellas? Dames need to keep their traps shut before I give 'em a knuckle sandwich for gabbin' on too much.

    Quit razzin' the dolls Mori

    Aw, shut up ya big galoot. The ladies need to know a man's in charge and I'm the guy here to do it.

    The dames don't want a lowlife goon, ya mook

    Ladies want a nice upstandin' sophisticated type

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Oh hey guys what's going on in this thread.




    loliconprimecg9.jpg

    lain055.jpg


    sup

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I like anime, otaku carries a negative connotation though.

    This one time I was talking about Lain and this kid came up all nasal voicey 'Oh are you an otaku too?! i love Lain she is so Kawaii!'

    Talk about awkward.

    I hope he killed himself.

    Ironic then, that you like Lain as well.

    But I know exactly the sort of people you are referring to. The sorts of people who make you like things less merely by association.

    DarkPrimus on
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    VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I can't believe I just read that entire article.

    Someone quick get me a glass of battery acid in which to drown my sorrows.

    Vivixenne on
    XBOX: NOVADELPHINI | DISCORD: NOVADELPHINI #7387 | TWITTER
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I like anime, otaku carries a negative connotation though.

    This one time I was talking about Lain and this kid came up all nasal voicey 'Oh are you an otaku too?! i love Lain she is so Kawaii!'

    Talk about awkward.

    I hope he killed himself.

    The idea that someone could watch Lain and come away thinking about how cute she was is just mind-boggling.

    Centipede Damascus on
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    AuburnTigerAuburnTiger Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Did anyone ever see that line of contacts that widens the eye and makes women look like anime girls?

    AuburnTiger on
    XBL: Flex MythoMass
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I like anime, otaku carries a negative connotation though.

    This one time I was talking about Lain and this kid came up all nasal voicey 'Oh are you an otaku too?! i love Lain she is so Kawaii!'

    Talk about awkward.

    I hope he killed himself.

    Ironic then, that you like Lain as well.

    But I know exactly the sort of people you are referring to. The sorts of people who make you like things less merely by association.

    how is it ironic? I meant Lain the story, not Lain the character. I suppose i should have specified

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Moriveth wrote: »
    haha, "These figures are better, they do not talk back."

    Like all women should be am I right fellas? Dames need to keep their traps shut before I give 'em a knuckle sandwich for gabbin' on too much.

    Quit razzin' the dolls Mori

    Aw, shut up ya big galoot. The ladies need to know a man's in charge and I'm the guy here to do it.

    The dames don't want a lowlife goon, ya mook

    Ladies want a nice upstandin' sophisticated type

    Sophisticated, shomisticated. All the ladies need is an arm around their waist and maybe a bouquet of flowers to butter them up. Maybe occasionally a trip to the movie theaters, see a good flick you know?

    A man gets to bein' all fancy and a woman gets to expectin' that every day. It ain't good, it ain't good at all.

    Moriveth on
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    I can't believe I just read that entire article.

    Someone quick get me a glass of battery acid in which to drown my sorrows.

    monster.jpg

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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    BibbleBibble __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    sum kawaii anime pics i found n_n~

    digi4.jpg

    4H1Zh6y0.jpg

    user-Ichigo-Kawaii417.jpg

    Bibble on
    2jezcsmjpg.gif
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    FutoreFutore Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Did anyone ever see that line of contacts that widens the eye and makes women look like anime girls?

    I wear contacts kind of like that

    Futore on
    ETqXK.png
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    VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Bendery I like your new username

    Vivixenne on
    XBOX: NOVADELPHINI | DISCORD: NOVADELPHINI #7387 | TWITTER
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    AuburnTigerAuburnTiger Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Is that a baby/cat hybrid?

    AuburnTiger on
    XBL: Flex MythoMass
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    VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    AUUUUGH I CAN'T LOOK AT THIS THREAD ANYMORE IT'S GIVING ME CANCER AND DIABETES AT THE SAME GODDAMN TIME

    Vivixenne on
    XBOX: NOVADELPHINI | DISCORD: NOVADELPHINI #7387 | TWITTER
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    MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    damnit bibble

    Meissnerd on
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Bendery I like your new username

    Tube is pretty talented, I'm glad i lost the flip.

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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    BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Did anyone ever see that line of contacts that widens the eye and makes women look like anime girls?

    Foot binding isn't enough, now lets blind women for fashion!

    BYToady on
    Battletag BYToady#1454
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Guys help I can't decide which I should buy next they are all so kawaii.
    I'm joking, of course. I'm buying this next.

    DarkPrimus on
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    BYToady wrote: »
    Did anyone ever see that line of contacts that widens the eye and makes women look like anime girls?

    Foot binding isn't enough, now lets blind women for fashion!

    Corsets are hot

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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    BibbleBibble __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    normal_Kawaii.jpg

    sexy

    Bibble on
    2jezcsmjpg.gif
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Also, I got really mad at this black guy in my class for being a stupid douche, and my knee jerk reaction is to be a racist fuck hole at times like these, I caught myself though and called him a Nerf Herder

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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    BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    BYToady wrote: »
    Did anyone ever see that line of contacts that widens the eye and makes women look like anime girls?

    Foot binding isn't enough, now lets blind women for fashion!

    Corsets are hot

    Go for the 4 inch waist.

    BYToady on
    Battletag BYToady#1454
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Oh fuck, is this a yellow ranger thread?

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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