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Tech jobs- which way to go?
JaysonFour
Classy Monster KittehRegistered User regular
Classy Monster KittehRegistered User regular
So I sat down with my school's academic counselor and proceeded to go over what I wanted to do with the time I have left here- I told her I wanted to finish a two-year degree and then take some additional stuff in order to be able to qualify over at a four-year school.
Boy, that plan hit the fan about three minutes in. Seems I've got enough time and Pell Grant money coming to do one of two things:
1) Finish a Computer Support Tech degree here at the community college. This could get me in the door at Geek Squad or something, fixing/building computers.
2) Take a bunch of math/science/elective courses in preparation to go over to the semi-big four-year school to finish a Computer Information Systems degree of some kind. This one would obviously take another two years on top of the two I've got left here, so I'd be working for another four years after this semester. This could get me a job as an IT guy at a company, with lots of room for possible growth/promotion.
So, the reason I wanted to ask you guys- I'm leaning torwards going for the four-year program, but the two-year program has its perks, too. Which would be more beneficial in the long run?
Boy, that plan hit the fan about three minutes in. Seems I've got enough time and Pell Grant money coming to do one of two things:
1) Finish a Computer Support Tech degree here at the community college. This could get me in the door at Geek Squad or something, fixing/building computers.
2) Take a bunch of math/science/elective courses in preparation to go over to the semi-big four-year school to finish a Computer Information Systems degree of some kind. This one would obviously take another two years on top of the two I've got left here, so I'd be working for another four years after this semester. This could get me a job as an IT guy at a company, with lots of room for possible growth/promotion.
So, the reason I wanted to ask you guys- I'm leaning torwards going for the four-year program, but the two-year program has its perks, too. Which would be more beneficial in the long run?
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if not, go for the better schooling.
and you will be working for the rest of your life...
so is 2 more years of school that hard so you can not work at minimum wage for the rest of your life?
That said, a 4-year degree is by no means required. If you're already a hotshot programmer and confident in your skills, you can try your luck with the outside world. Start with smaller companies or contract work, and go up from there. By "hotshot" I mean that you find all your coursework and CS projects pretty trivial, you already know everything that they teach in class, you're starting to dabble in open source or modding or XNA-like stuff, etc.
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While you're doing it, make sure to pick up some Cisco, and Microsoft certifications to help reinforce you're resume.
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Really.
Don't put Geek Squad as an end goal for your career. Get the degree and in the process of doing so sell your soul to get whatever internships you can during your summers, even if it means working for free at a big company to get your resume beefed up, and then graduate and be way better off than you would have been with just a two year technical degree.
Internships are the key.
During your four years of school it wont feel that long and once it's over you will look back at it and be happy you did it. Don't screw around now saying "eh, I will go sometime in the future" because you wont. Sure, some people do but most don't. So get it down now, have some fun while doing it, and be better off for the rest of your life because of it.
(<-- disclaimer: BS in CS degree from Rutgers, so I am a bit biased towards doing it this way.)
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There's a lot to be said in the business world for people who can flat out accomplish things. I was lucky and never had to deal with anyone trying to "keep me down".
I wish the best of luck to you if you do spend your time and money furthering this field of study.
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But we are both multilingual, and now I work tehc support for the euro parliament, and she works for a large financial services company.
The point of my story? Both or jobs will likely still be here, even if banks fall down, business go bankrupt, no matter what comes. Likely.
Good things to have in a bad job market are experience, a mature attitude, and proven skills in a wide area. In Europe, especially here in Brussels, languages are a must.
Whatever you do, make sure you are employable when you exit school, and take into account that the economy is going downhill.
Taking a tech support job is not a bad way to make a living if you have social/management skills and can climb a little. At least it should get you the experience, mature attitude and proven practical skills.
Taking another four years of school might turn you out into a world with no job market.
If I have to be honest, the 'good' jobs are the ones that were here before IT and will still be there when IT has become ubiquitous, invisible and 'just working'. That means business degrees, lawschool, medicine, engineers,...
What we do it just a passing phase, and within our lifetime we will have to find another field of expertise.
Like cooking, if we're lucky
Go the four-year route, and try to pick up some certs along the way as suggested.
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Keep your BS and branch out with certifications. What mostly matters in IT, is certifications. Degrees aren't really looked at, other than a potential employer knowing you can form a sentence. If I were you, I'd shoot for either MSCE / Cisco / Oracle / Unix (depending on what your interest is). Business management is a very good degree for IT, since the IT world is deeprooted with it.
What most IT positions look for, as far as my experience goes, is 1. Interpersonal experience, 2. Technical knowledge. The majority of monkeys out there have technical knowledge due to experience, but not many know how to communicate, plan and execute projects.
I did well in high school, but realized that even with scholarships, I would come out of a 4 year college in about $50K + in debt. Not a good way to start. So I went into the Air Force, but I did it smart. Don't show up to a recruiter without knowing everything you can about computer career fields. I researched the 3C0 career field, had a few questions for the recruiter, then decided to do it. I wouldn't sign any document unless it was stating that I was going to be a 3C0. Don't let them bait and switch.
For me, the 3C0 career field was key, primarily for 2 reasons. It guarenteed at least a Secret clearance (more on this later) and 3C0's could go anywhere. I started at the Pentagon, did some 'grunt' work (at a phone switch) then got into the security directorate. 4 years later, moved on to a 'real' base and worked at the Network Control Center, geek squad for the base so to speak. Worked the help desk and the back end servers. Did network stuff at the DIA, then got out.
Of course, I never went to school, which was the primary reason I went into the Air Force. But I got more important things, like experience and a clearance. So even with no degree, I came out of 7 years in the Air Force with a good job ($95K to start in Washington DC) and my whole life ahead of me (only 25 years old). The key to setting myself apart from every other mid 20's computer guy was the type of experience, and the security clearance. On the whole, the defense industry is doing very well, and always need folks that have the type of experience they need, along with the clearances required.
So if you're up to it, I would say the military is a good option. Keep in mind that anything but the Air Force will have you deployed often, and for longer periods of time. I did 4 months in Kuwait during the Iraq war buildup, but as a computer guy, your tent/container was always air conditioned (servers and all), and you always had net/phone access.
That is kind of my thoughts. I will probably focus on the MSCE and Cisco to start then see where my options are.
I would totally do the military option, but I already went down that road and got a bum hip out of the deal. Thanks for the information guys.
This is basically it, and that's about as good as a 2 year degree is going to get you. It's a sad fact, but an associates degree is really not proof of anything, they pretty much hand them out in cracker jack boxes.
Getting a bachelors over an associates is pretty much the best investment you are going to be able to make in your early life.
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I'm kind of interested in this, having had to drop out of college due to financial issues.
1) are there prior qualifications, or do they train you?
2) do you have to do physical boot-camp type stuff?
Even further, I would highly recommend you look at Neumont University, a small, Computer Science-only university with an accelerated two year, four month program that nets you a 4 year CS degree. It's what I did, and it has worked out quite well.
Huh. It's funny, I ignore the certifications when I look over resumes and interview people. I care a lot more about technical knowledge, work experience, and to a much lesser point, the degree itself. Then again, this for a software engineering position, and not straight up IT.
I do agree that interpersonal experience/skills is hugely important. You could be the best coder/tester in the world, but if you can't communicate worth a damn, then that's not very helpful.
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If you're an able interviewer and you learn the equivalent of what you would in a 4-year school outside of what your community college teaches you, you might have a shot. I mostly got lucky, and I really, really wish I had gone to a full university. My 2-year degree might be nice to say "hey, look, I went to school", but I didn't learn shit. I basically had to educate myself.
Go for the 4-year.
If you can land a job at Geek Squad while going to the 4-year school, all the better. Of course, I worked 40-hour weeks and went to school full time, and it nearly killed me.
I gotta say, this is not necessarily true. It depends on the school you get it from. CIS is just Computer and Information Sciences, and at some schools, a full fledged CS degree might still say CIS on the diploma.
Actually, I'll share a little secret (at least with how my group and I handle hiring) with how resumes are handled. It's often based off keywords. It just depends on what the group/company is looking for. If they're looking for someone with a specific certification, then yeah, you're right. But in my case, I have an entirely different set of keywords I'm looking for, and none of them have to do with certifications. It just depends on the job. I guess if I were looking for a straight-up IT person, I would look for these certifications but for other engineering positions ... not so much.
Also another tip for people ... for the love of god, run your resume through a spell-checker! If your resume is filled with typos and grammatical errors, that does not bode well. If you're sloppy with your resume, it implies that you might be sloppy at your real job too.
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I agree, depending on the institution IS (information systems) can be a viable option with plenty of career opportunities. The school I go to has both CS and IS, CS being more theory and hardcore programming oriented, plus lots of math+science. IS is much more business related, setting you up for a corporate position (I know a lot of people who minor or double major in business). I personally chose CS because the courses offered interested me more, and I love math and science. If you don't like math or science courses it might be better just to go IS, I know people who did so after failing a few of the harder ones.
But with all that said, most of the major entry level hirers around this area (for better or worse) don't seem to differentiate between the two majors, hiring students from both for similar positions. I wound up interning over the summer at a place that had me doing extremely business oriented project management type stuff with barely any coding, while other interns I knew at the company were IS majors and were asked to do tons of straight up programming. I think too many companies are clueless about those kinds of things.
Agreed, which is why I suggested one of the most difficult but rewarding CS programs in the country.
EDIT: Neumont, I mean. Didn't quite notice it wasn't in your quote.
1) Prior qualifications consist of a decent ASVAB score. I was too poor to have a computer as a kid (outside of the HS computer lab).
2) My marine and army buddies would smack me if I called the AF boot camp 'physical'. I took it seriously and came out buff (4 months in tech school changed that back quickly). If you're a comm guy in the AF (not combat comm, those guys are nuts) then it's not too physical at all.
Basic training has been beefed up, but by how much, I dont know (went in 2001).
Be warned the 3c0 career field that Tachyon mentioned is under going alot of changes and depending on what base you get to you'll only do Tech support. I work on a consolidated network, supporting 12 different bases. So for any real problems or such, the ticket will need to be just sent to us, so at the base level you wont do much outside of client troubleshooting.
Now if you get lucky and get at a base where you can work on the AD/Exchange servers, then its easy to get some good experience in. I've been working exchange for 4 years now, have Exchange 2003/2007 experience and finishing my MCITP: Enterprise Messaging Administrator cert.
Also, the AF as a whole is going to a consolidated network, but at this pace it will be a while (I'm actually involved in this aswell).
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But yeah, whatever you do, research the hell out of it...
Get the job and go to school at the same time if you can, that's what I'm doing. Well, trying to do. If only I could motive myself enough to go to class consistently