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[WAR] - Ranged DPS: You can run, you'll just die tired.

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    CryogenCryogen Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Who's complaining about SW's being weak?

    Cryogen on
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    BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    xgalaxy wrote: »
    Compared to SH the SW is pretty fucking op. I can't believe people are complaining about them. I played one during the closed beta and they can pull off some pretty crazy damage. Maybe not Bright Wizard crazy, but still pretty crazy.

    For example, the SH gets a similar ability combo setup to the SW's Fletched Arrow + Split Arrow. These are in the Quick Shootin line, Run n Shoot + Splintering Arrers.

    Now take a look at this. the SW's Fletched Arrow costs 25AP to use and does 125dmg. The SH's Run n Shoot costs 40AP and only does 75dmg. What the fuck? Both combos do the same thing, both have the same range, both acquired at the same levels, and both can be casted while moving. In my opinion they should swap the AP costs of these two abilities so that SH's is 25 and the SW's is 40.

    There are a lot of other extremely similar abilities between the SH and SW and the SH gets the shaft on all of them either in damage, AP cost, or both.

    My wife is playing a White Lion, and absolutely demolishes everything in her path. I cannot keep up with her on damage at all. She can also fight 4+ enemies at once. Part of that is because of her pet's damage output.

    What I'm saying is that your AoE may cost more, and do less damage, but maybe that's because of your advantage with the pet?

    This. On average, SH does slightly less damage and has slightly more expensive abilities by himself, but you get a free source of constant damage in exchange.

    BlueDestiny on
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    SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    This. On average, SH does slightly less damage and has slightly more expensive abilities by himself, but you get a free source of constant damage in exchange.

    While true, they do need to fix a couple things. Firstly, the Spiked Squigs "Poisoned Spikes" ability is non-functional. There appears to be no DoT put on the target. But I have not personally looked at a combat log to see if it's actually there and not displaying.

    Looking at the SH and SW's trees, I don't see a I Feelz Yer Pain for the SW, so that's an advantage for a Big Shootin' Herder.
    It's a tactic that's +50 AP everything the Herder crits.

    Selner on
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    vonPoonBurGervonPoonBurGer Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I just wish I could find a Destro ranged DPS class that I liked. I don't think that's a WAR problem, I've always been a melee kinda guy. Destro could really use some more ranged DPS players, but most people see the viable choices as being: Sorceress. Not saying it's necessarily true, but pets were so bad during the preview weekend that 90% of the Destro populace isn't willing to sink time into a Magus or SH when common wisdom is that they're utterly gimpsauce classes. I can only hope some martyr somewhere plays one and educates the masses on why they're actually worthwhile.

    vonPoonBurGer on
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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I learned that at T1, people are really, really intimidated by squig armor even though I only get one ability and a small stat boost. I've routed order players with it because they just run away when I get close :lol: .

    Good thing we aren't on the same sever then, because anytime I see a Squig Herder in Squig Armor, I immediately drop everything and reenact the opening cinematic. :3

    That said, more Squig Herders should get the lots of arrers ability. They're really annoying to other RDPS/healers.

    Dracil on
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    Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Selner wrote: »
    This. On average, SH does slightly less damage and has slightly more expensive abilities by himself, but you get a free source of constant damage in exchange.

    While true, they do need to fix a couple things. Firstly, the Spiked Squigs "Poisoned Spikes" ability is non-functional. There appears to be no DoT put on the target. But I have not personally looked at a combat log to see if it's actually there and not displaying.

    Looking at the SH and SW's trees, I don't see a I Feelz Yer Pain for the SW, so that's an advantage for a Big Shootin' Herder.
    It's a tactic that's +50 AP everything the Herder crits.

    Too bad our Squig that increases our Crit rate is in the Quick Shootin' tree :-/

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
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    xgalaxyxgalaxy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Selner wrote: »
    This. On average, SH does slightly less damage and has slightly more expensive abilities by himself, but you get a free source of constant damage in exchange.

    While true, they do need to fix a couple things. Firstly, the Spiked Squigs "Poisoned Spikes" ability is non-functional. There appears to be no DoT put on the target. But I have not personally looked at a combat log to see if it's actually there and not displaying.

    Looking at the SH and SW's trees, I don't see a I Feelz Yer Pain for the SW, so that's an advantage for a Big Shootin' Herder.
    It's a tactic that's +50 AP everything the Herder crits.

    Too bad our Squig that increases our Crit rate is in the Quick Shootin' tree :-/

    Actually that's the perfect place for it. What is actually too bad is that Lots of Arrers is in the Big Shootin tree. If that ability was in Quick Shootin and I could do it while on the move I could die a happy happy little git.

    Even better, move both Lots o Arrers and I Feelz Yer Pain to the Quick Shootin line. All of that combined with the Crit squig could be a pretty awesome little AP regen setup since Lots o Arrers has a chance to crit each tick. With that setup your almost guaranteed to crit at least once or twice, possibly more. Crit just three times and you have pretty much negated the entire cost of the ability. You could in theory have this setup now, but you have to split your Mastery points between both trees.

    xgalaxy on
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    ZanteZante Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So I got a new damage record as a team effort with my guild's healers healing me like mad the entire match while we farmed Destruction at their spawn point:

    Tapek.jpg

    'Twas hilarious.

    Zante on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    As a SW, what's the best way for me to be effective in RvR? My main tactic is running around in skirmish range while spamming spiral-fletched arrows at one guy, while keeping up both my DoTs on a bunch of people. If I see melee DPS enemies, I hit them with takedown. If there is someone of a much higher level, I use a vengeance/takedown combo to put them on the ground so we can mob them.

    Doc on
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    zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Zante wrote: »
    So I got a new damage record as a team effort with my guild's healers healing me like mad the entire match while we farmed Destruction at their spawn point:

    'Twas hilarious.

    It probably wasn't as hilarious as you think it was. Looking at the kill numbers you must have spawncamped them for the full 15.

    Not cool.

    zilo on
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    CaedereCaedere S'no regrets BIRDIESRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    zilo wrote: »
    Zante wrote: »
    So I got a new damage record as a team effort with my guild's healers healing me like mad the entire match while we farmed Destruction at their spawn point:

    'Twas hilarious.

    It probably wasn't as hilarious as you think it was. Looking at the kill numbers you must have spawncamped them for the full 15.

    Not cool.

    No, it's still hilarious. If a team sucks, it gets graveyard-farmed as a punishment - perfectly reasonable to me.

    Caedere on
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    zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Caedere wrote: »
    zilo wrote: »
    Zante wrote: »
    So I got a new damage record as a team effort with my guild's healers healing me like mad the entire match while we farmed Destruction at their spawn point:

    'Twas hilarious.

    It probably wasn't as hilarious as you think it was. Looking at the kill numbers you must have spawncamped them for the full 15.

    Not cool.

    No, it's still hilarious. If a team sucks, it gets graveyard-farmed as a punishment - perfectly reasonable to me.

    You're a bad person.

    Changing the subject, anyone done any keep defense on a Magus? How'd that go? Are the short-distance AE dots actually useful?

    zilo on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    As a SW, what's the best way for me to be effective in RvR? My main tactic is running around in skirmish range while spamming spiral-fletched arrows at one guy, while keeping up both my DoTs on a bunch of people. If I see melee DPS enemies, I hit them with takedown. If there is someone of a much higher level, I use a vengeance/takedown combo to put them on the ground so we can mob them.

    Sounds like you're being a good harasser, which is what I've been doing. It may not top us on the damage meters, but it makes a pest out of us.

    If it pisses them off, I'm happy.

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    CaedereCaedere S'no regrets BIRDIESRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hey, Shadow Warriors, I just picked up Enfeebling Strike - holy crap. I'm now stealthing up and tagging SWs and watching them try to run and kill themselves in the process - it's the funniest thing I've seen in a long, long time.

    I guess the moral is, don't run from a level 20 WE :D

    Caedere on
    FWnykYl.jpg
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    One funny thing is when melee types will use the knockback on me. I'm like, "uh, alright..."

    Doc on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    One funny thing is when melee types will use the knockback on me. I'm like, "uh, alright..."

    Unless they were trying to throw you off a cliff, that's hilarious. :lol:

    Shadowfire on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    One funny thing is when melee types will use the knockback on me. I'm like, "uh, alright..."

    Unless they were trying to throw you off a cliff, that's hilarious. :lol:

    Nope. Knocked me back to the healers, in fact.

    Doc on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    One funny thing is when melee types will use the knockback on me. I'm like, "uh, alright..."

    Unless they were trying to throw you off a cliff, that's hilarious. :lol:

    Nope. Knocked me back to the healers, in fact.

    Even better! :lol:

    On the other hand, I really enjoy my knockback. I ran into a pack of enemies, knocked their healer into the middle of my group, used Whirling Pin, and ran out. We destroyed them, and none of us died. Hilarity.

    Also, knocking people into the explosions on Khaine's Embrace is good fun.

    Shadowfire on
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    ShoggothShoggoth Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So I've got a rank 15 Marauder and a rank 11 Magus alt.

    Magus seems very worthless right now. I feel like there's essentially no way to kite/stay alive when melee gets close and the only two snares I have atm are totally worthless in RvR. Tzeench's grasp has a 50% chance to break, which means it will, and demonic maw has a five foot range.

    Overall the DoTs are weak thus far, Red Fire is a joke, and pets are an after thought. I feel like once you've progressed high enough to get some of the perks from the mastery trees the class will suck less.

    Is that assumption correct?

    Shoggoth on
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    VerrVerr Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I just wish I could find a Destro ranged DPS class that I liked. I don't think that's a WAR problem, I've always been a melee kinda guy. Destro could really use some more ranged DPS players, but most people see the viable choices as being: Sorceress. Not saying it's necessarily true, but pets were so bad during the preview weekend that 90% of the Destro populace isn't willing to sink time into a Magus or SH when common wisdom is that they're utterly gimpsauce classes. I can only hope some martyr somewhere plays one and educates the masses on why they're actually worthwhile.

    Squig Herders are not the primary DPS, Sorc's are. As a SH, be thankful for that. While all the MDPS and tanks run straight for the Sorcs, scoot to the side, and harass the healers, bring down anybody the friendly MDPS is targeting, and most importantly, USE FUCKING STICKY SQUIGS.

    Sticky Squigs is possibly the most important ability you have in T2, all of the scens require movement of a flag-like-object, root the blob that is defending the ball, and GTFO, 10 seconds of root.

    Verr on
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    MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    Malick wrote: »
    I have reached 20 with my SW and I do have a few gripes with the class overall.

    Solo PvE - We suck.

    My typical fight in PvE goes like this: (In Assault Stance for the armor buff)

    A) Pull with Armor Debuff Arrow
    B) Fire off Eagle Eye once (sometimes twice)
    C) Melee DoT
    D) Spam the Level 1 Melee skill until I run out of AP or the mob dies.

    If I get 2 mobs or a wanderer I will either die or be at 10% health by the end.

    My gripe is that we only have 2 melee skills usable in a fight and 80% of a fight is done in melee range.

    I have tried Snaring and then using the Spiral Arrows, but while doable it takes a TON of room to kite without aggroing anything else in the area.

    I think to solve this we need a single target ranged root ability. Since other classes have them I wouldn't see it as OP and tanks could break it anyway.

    I've actually been considering dropping my skirmish mastery points, and picking up assault for this reason.
    Anyone have any experience with an assault SW?

    I am either at long range, plinking with scout skills, or I am in melee. The chances/uses of skirmish seem pretty limited, due to mob density in in pve, and the insane range of melee in pvp.

    Morkath on
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Keep battle today rekindled my love of the Magus. I just hit 16 and got Pandemonium, and my god I love AoE DoTs. See a bunch of Order all bunched up, target one near the middle, glide to 65ft and throw out a Glean Magic, then Surge of Insanity, then Pandemonium, then run back to the line. The damage may not be enough to kill any if they have decent healers, but all those AoE spell effects going off will break them up quick, and they'll be distracted for a few seconds so our line can rush forward.

    So much fun.

    Aistan on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    As a Shadow Warrior, I've yet to be able to kill a tank type class in 1v1 combat. Tips? My snares only go so far. Should I be running more and shooting less?

    Doc on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    As a Shadow Warrior, I've yet to be able to kill a tank type class in 1v1 combat. Tips? My snares only go so far. Should I be running more and shooting less?

    Tanks are supposed to be the bane of DPS classes, but 2 DPS'ers played well can definately take down a tank. This is mostly true when I'm dealing with Witch Hunters, I can take on a single with no problem, but a duo will take me down pretty well.
    Ranged DPS is the same thing, a single player will have to have some lucky crits or lucky roots to hold me in place, especially so for a physical damage based archer vs me with a shield thats going to block a bunch of your shots.

    Also, for the Magus, I cant help but feel that Glean Magic needs a DD component along with the AOE DOT. And does it actually strip the buff from the targets or only apply the DOT? I generally use it alot against groups with Warrior Preists and Arch Mages since they seem to use alot of regens and buffs, more so than the rune priests. Though it works wonders for chasing Rune Priests as they buff themselves alot, and will keep reapplying buffs as they get stripped.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think Glean Magic only applies the DoT to your target, while reducing the spirit resistance of everyone within 20 feet of them. The description is a little weird after that, so i'm not sure who gets their buffs removed from it. Things have been too hectic when i'm targeting a group with it to check and see.

    Aistan on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Holy shit. I got rapid fire on my SW, then the next level I got split arrows. That made the class WAY better.

    Doc on
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The class became superb as soon as it got the first morale ability

    it is so fun to throw healers off ledges and away from the battle <3

    Zzulu on
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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    As a Shadow Warrior, I've yet to be able to kill a tank type class in 1v1 combat. Tips? My snares only go so far. Should I be running more and shooting less?

    Tanks are supposed to be the bane of DPS classes,

    No they aren't. They're supposed to be the bane of MDPS only. RDPS are supposed to kite them to death. In T2 they are the bane because they can root for 10 levels. In T3 RDPS are weaker again. In T4 RDPS become strong again because they finally get all their CCs.

    Dracil on
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    XzeanXzean Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aistan wrote: »
    I think Glean Magic only applies the DoT to your target, while reducing the spirit resistance of everyone within 20 feet of them. The description is a little weird after that, so i'm not sure who gets their buffs removed from it. Things have been too hectic when i'm targeting a group with it to check and see.

    Nope, it DoTs them all.

    Also any assumptions about Magus being weak are very wrong. I top almost every damage chart, very rarely die unless I am being suicidal (like trying to delay a flag at all costs). You have to know when to go in and when to go out.

    Also flickering red fire is worthless. Use rend winds for burst.

    Xzean on
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Xzean wrote: »
    Nope, it DoTs them all.

    I love this class more and more every time I RvR. In a few levels i'll be able to spec in yet another AoE DoT to add another layer to the craziness.

    With the armor buff we get, the few seconds we are within 65ft of the group is completely survivable, if we're smart about it.

    Aistan on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    The class became superb as soon as it got the first morale ability

    it is so fun to throw healers off ledges and away from the battle <3

    Yeah, but I still didn't feel like a DPS class until I saw ridiculous amounts of numbers on the screen.

    Doc on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aistan wrote: »
    Xzean wrote: »
    Nope, it DoTs them all.

    I love this class more and more every time I RvR. In a few levels i'll be able to spec in yet another AoE DoT to add another layer to the craziness.

    With the armor buff we get, the few seconds we are within 65ft of the group is completely survivable, if we're smart about it.

    Yeah, I levelled mine some more today and broke my personal best record for damage in a T1 scenario, I managed to hit 30k damage at L10.

    I think I had to get out of the mindset that the Magus is a nuke class, and get into the mindset that it is a AOE DOT class with some other abilities thrown in for utility.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    vonPoonBurGervonPoonBurGer Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think I had to get out of the mindset that the Magus is a nuke class, and get into the mindset that it is a AOE DOT class with some other abilities thrown in for utility.
    Ahh, this is what I needed to hear. I had feeling the strength of the Magus was in AoE, and I thought the DoTs might be the key, but it's nice to get confirmation from people actually playing the class. I saw a Magus come in top damage for a Mourkain Temple scenario and I was wondering what his secret was, and I suspect "AoE DoT" is the answer. People tend to bunch up a lot on the narrow platform ringing the temple.

    Plus, some of the stuff in Path of Changing just looks like fun. The exploding pet, the channeled spell that can turn an enemy's corpse into a rabid horror, and 240 foot wide (!!) ground target AoE DoT that just keeps getting stronger. I find my Witch Elf to be pretty limited in keep standoffs, so I've been looking for a ranged/AoE class to roll as an alt with keeps in mind, and I think the Magus might be it. They may not have the burst of the Sorc, but I think they get better survivability, and the one thing I hated about the Sorc was the extreme flimsiness.

    vonPoonBurGer on
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    OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think I had to get out of the mindset that the Magus is a nuke class, and get into the mindset that it is a AOE DOT class with some other abilities thrown in for utility.
    Ahh, this is what I needed to hear. I had feeling the strength of the Magus was in AoE, and I thought the DoTs might be the key, but it's nice to get confirmation from people actually playing the class. I saw a Magus come in top damage for a Mourkain Temple scenario and I was wondering what his secret was, and I suspect "AoE DoT" is the answer. People tend to bunch up a lot on the narrow platform ringing the temple.

    Plus, some of the stuff in Path of Changing just looks like fun. The exploding pet, the channeled spell that can turn an enemy's corpse into a rabid horror, and 240 foot wide (!!) ground target AoE DoT that just keeps getting stronger. I find my Witch Elf to be pretty limited in keep standoffs, so I've been looking for a ranged/AoE class to roll as an alt with keeps in mind, and I think the Magus might be it. They may not have the burst of the Sorc, but I think they get better survivability, and the one thing I hated about the Sorc was the extreme flimsiness.

    In the interest of perhaps piquing your Witch Elf interest for higher levels: http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14427

    Combine that with a few other like-minded WElfs and I imagine it would create a fair amount of havoc on the walls of a keep.

    Magi are quite fun though.

    Oats on
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    MalickMalick Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Morkath wrote: »
    Malick wrote: »
    I have reached 20 with my SW and I do have a few gripes with the class overall.

    Solo PvE - We suck.

    My typical fight in PvE goes like this: (In Assault Stance for the armor buff)

    A) Pull with Armor Debuff Arrow
    B) Fire off Eagle Eye once (sometimes twice)
    C) Melee DoT
    D) Spam the Level 1 Melee skill until I run out of AP or the mob dies.

    If I get 2 mobs or a wanderer I will either die or be at 10% health by the end.

    My gripe is that we only have 2 melee skills usable in a fight and 80% of a fight is done in melee range.

    I have tried Snaring and then using the Spiral Arrows, but while doable it takes a TON of room to kite without aggroing anything else in the area.

    I think to solve this we need a single target ranged root ability. Since other classes have them I wouldn't see it as OP and tanks could break it anyway.

    I've actually been considering dropping my skirmish mastery points, and picking up assault for this reason.
    Anyone have any experience with an assault SW?

    I am either at long range, plinking with scout skills, or I am in melee. The chances/uses of skirmish seem pretty limited, due to mob density in in pve, and the insane range of melee in pvp.

    I speced full Assault today and I am having a much easier time killing solo mobs. It has shaved around 4-5 seconds per mob and I finish with 1/4to to 1/2 AP depending on the creatures armor rating.

    Malick on
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Am I the only one that likes the Ranged stance?

    Malkor on
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    are magi as vulnerable as the sorc?

    Zzulu on
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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    are magi as vulnerable as the sorc?

    Not blowing yourself up goes a long way to helping survivability.

    If they're anything like engineers though, you can get quite a bit of crowd control as well.

    Dracil on
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    IblisIblis Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Dracil wrote: »
    Zzulu wrote: »
    are magi as vulnerable as the sorc?

    Not blowing yourself up goes a long way to helping survivability.

    If they're anything like engineers though, you can get quite a bit of crowd control as well.

    Actually if I'm not mistaken engineers get a shit ton more CC where as Magus get more damaging abilities. Demonic Armor is nice, but aside from that I think most of the survivability comes from speccing Daemonology for abilities like Aegis of Orange Fire, though Daemonology is essentially a melee range mastery.

    I could very well have missed some details though, so feel free to correct me if I have forgotten anything.

    Iblis on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Malick wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    Malick wrote: »
    I have reached 20 with my SW and I do have a few gripes with the class overall.

    Solo PvE - We suck.

    My typical fight in PvE goes like this: (In Assault Stance for the armor buff)

    A) Pull with Armor Debuff Arrow
    B) Fire off Eagle Eye once (sometimes twice)
    C) Melee DoT
    D) Spam the Level 1 Melee skill until I run out of AP or the mob dies.

    If I get 2 mobs or a wanderer I will either die or be at 10% health by the end.

    My gripe is that we only have 2 melee skills usable in a fight and 80% of a fight is done in melee range.

    I have tried Snaring and then using the Spiral Arrows, but while doable it takes a TON of room to kite without aggroing anything else in the area.

    I think to solve this we need a single target ranged root ability. Since other classes have them I wouldn't see it as OP and tanks could break it anyway.

    I've actually been considering dropping my skirmish mastery points, and picking up assault for this reason.
    Anyone have any experience with an assault SW?

    I am either at long range, plinking with scout skills, or I am in melee. The chances/uses of skirmish seem pretty limited, due to mob density in in pve, and the insane range of melee in pvp.

    I speced full Assault today and I am having a much easier time killing solo mobs. It has shaved around 4-5 seconds per mob and I finish with 1/4to to 1/2 AP depending on the creatures armor rating.

    I have found that liberal use of acid arrow works well enough for me to keep up with skirmish spec.

    Doc on
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