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[WAR] - Ranged DPS: You can run, you'll just die tired.

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    SWATJesterSWATJester Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So far I rolled up a Shadow Warrior (got bored with my engineer) and am doing quite well with it. I'm rank 6 at the moment and my early game playstyle works like this:

    Line battle: (veterans of navy field will understand what happens here) - Scout stance, Go up to just behind the front lines, If there are healers in range, Eagle eye, Acid arrow, and Eagle Eye until they leave. Look for the ranged DPS, Eagle Eye, Acid Arrow, Eagle Eye, until they run away. Look for the tanks, Hit them with Acid Arrow once, and then move on. If any melee come close, even if they're not attacking me, switch to them, Takedown, Broadhead arrow. If they're over 50% health, Eagle eye, if not, don't bother cause whoever else is there will kill them, switch back to what I was doing.

    Single target killing: Quick hit and run style attack. Scout stance, run up and takedown, broadhead arrow, switch to assault stance, and eagle eye until it dies. If it's looking like takedown is going to wear off and it's not a tank, run up, melee it a bit, and then switch back to scout, reapply takedown, and shoot it from mid range.

    So far these are my thoughts on Shadow Warrior early game abilities (mind you, at rank 6)

    Melee: Grim strike is only useful when Brutal Assault is on cooldown, especially since you can just maneuver a bit and always be "behind" the enemy for BA to work.

    Ranged: Eagle Eye does decent damage at this point, anywhere from 20-50% of a target's HP, depending on squishiness and critting. Takedown is ungodly. It's worth running in close just to apply it; it almost guarantees a targets death in RvR, by you or otherwise. Acid Arrow is only useful against tanks; I use it against healers sometimes to make sure I'm maximizing damage on them too. Broadhead arrow is best used on a target already hit with Takedown, or a melee class so you can utilize the instant cast/fire on the run. Don't worry about using it on RDPS because you'll have to go into their range and the cost/benefit is not enough.

    That's about it. Back to blowing money on apothecary/cultivation when the server is back up.

    SWATJester on
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    what was the level of your engineer?

    Zzulu on
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    LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    From a discussion about Withering Heat (a BW spell) on SA
    ded wrote:
    Hmm.


    Lets say he has 500ish int giving him +100% dps, that would be 2336 damage before crit (and I have no idea if the whole term of the spell crits or if it's each tic seperatly) would put it at 1168 per tic if it's the entire thing at 100 power for 4672 total dmg. Hmm. I don't see anything for a normal ability that even comes close to this for a Sorc.

    Thats some crazy shit right there. Rolling BW now later!

    Wait a goddamn minute. The Sorceress equivalent is Hand of Ruin, but unless WarDB is lying, the damage is not even remotely close AND there's no snare.

    This is balance? :(

    Ledneh on
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    3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    xgalaxy wrote: »
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    I can't get behind the farty squig. His attacks just seem too slow, and the DPS is too weak. When I send a squig lose, I need him to fuck shit up and do it fast. The farty squig does neither. I think the heal mechanic is a novelty at best - if you're in squig armor, a weak HoT isn't going to save you against a dedicated melée class. Frankly, squig armor seems more like a novelty than anything else. The attacks you get with it are a poor substitute for the variety and lethality of bow attacks. Sure, the SH has a few melée attacks, but they are attacks of last resort at best.

    And head butt isn't available in Squig armor. It doesn't even appear in the skill list, which tells me it's a pet ability. Any 21+ SH know what the deal is?

    When you say Farty Squig do you mean Gas Squig? Farty Squig is a skill that makes your squig explode. The only reason to use Gas Squig is the +100% armor bonus you get when he's out, it pairs nicely with being in Squig Armor.

    I use the Gas Squig when I know that the enemy is going to be clumping up. The AoE makes the pet decent, and is actually my preferred RvR pet because of it. I only use spiked when I need the dps and I know I'm not going to draw aggro. For RvR the only times I'll bring out the horned squig or the standard squig is when I am planning on blowing them up.


    See, I can't do that. I don't feel it's that great of a return - yeah, you get a few DoT's off, but in the heat of an RvR scrum, it seems almost negligible amount of damage that a HoT can (and likely will) fix.

    So for some reason, Headbutt appeared on my horned squig last night. I shrugged, and just ran with it. I got into my first RvR scenario, and I was impressed at just how good the horned squig is at fucking over a caster. The slight knock back, constant damage interrupt is pretty f'ing nice. Most caster's immediately retreated when I put the squig on them. No one else could be bothered to kill it, since we had other guys right in their faces. When I was too far away to recall it, or I felt I needed a different squig, I just blew it up, and got another. Now, if only the squig was just a little faster, and if the controls for it actually worked (when I click follow, it don't follow. That kills me.)

    Really, try the horned squig out guys. You might find you like'em.

    3lwap0 on
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    ZanteZante Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Sorcs are ridiculous in t4 keep defense. Pit of Shades has NO LOS requirement, meaning you can cast it from complete safety from any retaliation. AoE specced, with full Dark Magic and the tactic to knock players back on every crit which also crits for over 1k per tick is enough to seriously hamper to the point of destroying entire warbands of Order assaults.

    Also above, hand of ruin ticks for more then withering heat.

    Zante on
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    Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    xgalaxy wrote: »
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    I can't get behind the farty squig. His attacks just seem too slow, and the DPS is too weak. When I send a squig lose, I need him to fuck shit up and do it fast. The farty squig does neither. I think the heal mechanic is a novelty at best - if you're in squig armor, a weak HoT isn't going to save you against a dedicated melée class. Frankly, squig armor seems more like a novelty than anything else. The attacks you get with it are a poor substitute for the variety and lethality of bow attacks. Sure, the SH has a few melée attacks, but they are attacks of last resort at best.

    And head butt isn't available in Squig armor. It doesn't even appear in the skill list, which tells me it's a pet ability. Any 21+ SH know what the deal is?

    When you say Farty Squig do you mean Gas Squig? Farty Squig is a skill that makes your squig explode. The only reason to use Gas Squig is the +100% armor bonus you get when he's out, it pairs nicely with being in Squig Armor.

    I use the Gas Squig when I know that the enemy is going to be clumping up. The AoE makes the pet decent, and is actually my preferred RvR pet because of it. I only use spiked when I need the dps and I know I'm not going to draw aggro. For RvR the only times I'll bring out the horned squig or the standard squig is when I am planning on blowing them up.


    See, I can't do that. I don't feel it's that great of a return - yeah, you get a few DoT's off, but in the heat of an RvR scrum, it seems almost negligible amount of damage that a HoT can (and likely will) fix.

    So for some reason, Headbutt appeared on my horned squig last night. I shrugged, and just ran with it. I got into my first RvR scenario, and I was impressed at just how good the horned squig is at fucking over a caster. The slight knock back, constant damage interrupt is pretty f'ing nice. Most caster's immediately retreated when I put the squig on them. No one else could be bothered to kill it, since we had other guys right in their faces. When I was too far away to recall it, or I felt I needed a different squig, I just blew it up, and got another. Now, if only the squig was just a little faster, and if the controls for it actually worked (when I click follow, it don't follow. That kills me.)

    Really, try the horned squig out guys. You might find you like'em.

    Yeah, that's what I like about them. Which is generally why I use Gas (more for the armor than the dps, obviously) or Horned in scenarios right now. Once they fix Spikey Squigs I'll use them for more than just explosion fodder.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    xgalaxy wrote: »
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    I can't get behind the farty squig. His attacks just seem too slow, and the DPS is too weak. When I send a squig lose, I need him to fuck shit up and do it fast. The farty squig does neither. I think the heal mechanic is a novelty at best - if you're in squig armor, a weak HoT isn't going to save you against a dedicated melée class. Frankly, squig armor seems more like a novelty than anything else. The attacks you get with it are a poor substitute for the variety and lethality of bow attacks. Sure, the SH has a few melée attacks, but they are attacks of last resort at best.

    And head butt isn't available in Squig armor. It doesn't even appear in the skill list, which tells me it's a pet ability. Any 21+ SH know what the deal is?

    When you say Farty Squig do you mean Gas Squig? Farty Squig is a skill that makes your squig explode. The only reason to use Gas Squig is the +100% armor bonus you get when he's out, it pairs nicely with being in Squig Armor.

    I use the Gas Squig when I know that the enemy is going to be clumping up. The AoE makes the pet decent, and is actually my preferred RvR pet because of it. I only use spiked when I need the dps and I know I'm not going to draw aggro. For RvR the only times I'll bring out the horned squig or the standard squig is when I am planning on blowing them up.


    See, I can't do that. I don't feel it's that great of a return - yeah, you get a few DoT's off, but in the heat of an RvR scrum, it seems almost negligible amount of damage that a HoT can (and likely will) fix.

    So for some reason, Headbutt appeared on my horned squig last night. I shrugged, and just ran with it. I got into my first RvR scenario, and I was impressed at just how good the horned squig is at fucking over a caster. The slight knock back, constant damage interrupt is pretty f'ing nice. Most caster's immediately retreated when I put the squig on them. No one else could be bothered to kill it, since we had other guys right in their faces. When I was too far away to recall it, or I felt I needed a different squig, I just blew it up, and got another. Now, if only the squig was just a little faster, and if the controls for it actually worked (when I click follow, it don't follow. That kills me.)

    Really, try the horned squig out guys. You might find you like'em.

    There are people not using horned squigs in RvR? Why would they? They just do so much more damage than the others! And of course, they go boom oh so nicely.

    Are white lions as weak close up as I am as a squig herder? I don't think that they are quite our counterpart class, is it perhaps the engineers on the order side who are totally useless close up?

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    white lions are mirrors to the marauder

    don't let the pet fool you

    in other words, no we can take a fair beating.

    Zzulu on
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    BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Shoggoth wrote: »
    No knockbacks on my magus atm tho, I'm sure things get better later on but atm it's fairly discouraging. Surge of insanity is the only real disrupt I have.

    Warping Blast and Chaotic Rift change that. There's nothing like seeing an entire enemy zerg stopped by a magus who pulls them all into a demon mine.

    BlueDestiny on
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    white lions are mirrors to the marauder

    don't let the pet fool you

    in other words, no we can take a fair beating.

    So who is the squig herder equivalent then? Shadow Hunters? They seem to have good close up attacks too when I go to try and fight one.

    It's just annoying that even our snare has a minimum range! We have sticky squigs true, but your squig will often break that, or someone else will just blast it off. Everyone else seems to be able to instant snare me from near any distance.

    We do rock in pairs though, since you can't be near to both of us.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I think it's the shadow warrior yeah.

    SW's get stances and SH's get pets

    Zzulu on
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    hazywaterhazywater Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ledneh wrote: »
    From a discussion about Withering Heat (a BW spell) on SA
    ded wrote:
    Hmm.


    Lets say he has 500ish int giving him +100% dps, that would be 2336 damage before crit (and I have no idea if the whole term of the spell crits or if it's each tic seperatly) would put it at 1168 per tic if it's the entire thing at 100 power for 4672 total dmg. Hmm. I don't see anything for a normal ability that even comes close to this for a Sorc.

    Thats some crazy shit right there. Rolling BW now later!

    Wait a goddamn minute. The Sorceress equivalent is Hand of Ruin, but unless WarDB is lying, the damage is not even remotely close AND there's no snare.

    This is balance? :(

    Withering heat hits for 1596 damage over 4 hits. Hand of Ruin is supposed to hit 4 times for 448 damage each (total: 1792). The snare is awesome though, but you can see that the sorc trades that for more damage. Whether or not that is a good trade is questionable.

    hazywater on
    Hrin - Eve Online
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I wish more people would spam their speed debuffs on destruction side. I know you all have them, slow those darn witch hunters and dwarves down damn you! I think everyone focuses on their damage abilities too much, I always spam my slows, snares etc whenever they become available if I'm not under attack directly.

    In more hilarious news, I shot my first healer off a cliff last night in Nordenwatch. There he is, being all, "look at me, I'm taking the lighthouse with my buddy! You can't stop us lone squig herder!" and suddenly he is flying through the air before going plop into the sea. I then killed his buddy :) It was great!

    People also need to watch out for each other a bit more though, players are too used to Warcraft and its mega instant death crits, and assume if they aren't a healer they can't really help anyone out. A quick snare or slow onto someone attacking a friend can give them time to get back to range and fight effectively.

    I'm hoping the new tab targetting improves the situation though, currently it's too hard to pick out a target, so people tend to focus a lot. With better tab targetting switching back and forth should be much easier.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    bright wizards are crazy fucking awesome.

    tyrannus on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Damn, I spam my snares constantly, on any character that has them, all the time. I can't fathom not doing that.

    Well, assuming it's feasible. On my engineer, I'm not going to lose my range advantage just to snare the target.
    tyrannus wrote: »
    bright wizards are crazy fucking awesome.

    I want to like them, but I really hate dying so much. Sure, if we have the Fortress in Nordenwatch, I can climb the wall and survive for a while, but in the huge number of situations where I'm either alone, or if in a group, pushed back to the bridge etc, someone always charges right at me and detaunt never saves me.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Damn, I spam my snares constantly, on any character that has them, all the time. I can't fathom not doing that.

    Well, assuming it's feasible. On my engineer, I'm not going to lose my range advantage just to snare the target.

    I just always seem to see people running around at max speed until I slow them myself, and considering I have can keep a person slowed 50% of the time or so, I would expect to see at least half the order team moving at 60% speed.

    A tactic I've been enjoying recently on Nordenwatch is using all my speed buffs to get over to the order path before they arrive at the fortress. I can usually slow one, and then snare another couple if they have been slow. Sometimes I can even get a few of them to chase me about, which is awesome since if 2 of them chase me, then it improves the odds in the main fight. If I can slow a healer, and snare a tank and make them follow me or something then often the attack will have failed already by the time they kill me and get back.

    This works even nicer with 2 squig herders, since then you can usually take out a good fraction of the eneamy making the whole order parade arrive in dribs and drabs. It also puts you in a unexpected position, which is the best place for squig herders to be.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    at 14 it all changes. seriously. even after, like, you get fire cage (which isn't impressive) and stack the defense shield/detaunt.

    dotting the fuck out of everybody with detonate is just..amazing.

    tyrannus on
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    LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Man you get Detonate and we get Ice Spikes

    Which is still awesome but nothing even remotely as awesome as Detonate


    What do Sorceressesess get that is awesome that Brights don't? Someone make me feel better here :(

    Ledneh on
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    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    nothing because black orcs are too crazy good they suck the awesome from the other classes

    tyrannus on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tyrannus wrote: »
    at 14 it all changes. seriously. even after, like, you get fire cage (which isn't impressive) and stack the defense shield/detaunt.

    dotting the fuck out of everybody with detonate is just..amazing.

    Detonate sounds terribly cool, but that's not going to stop you from getting raped by multiple people focusing on you.

    I may just not being such a glass cannon. Engineers might have roughly the level of defense that I'd want to deal with, but sadly lacking in fiery destruction effects.

    Septus on
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    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    WHAT DO YOU CALL AIRSTRIKE

    tyrannus on
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    LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tyrannus wrote: »
    nothing because black orcs are too crazy good they suck the awesome from the other classes

    ironbreakers you traitorous dog >:T

    Ledneh on
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    MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    SWATJester wrote: »
    So far I rolled up a Shadow Warrior (got bored with my engineer) and am doing quite well with it. I'm rank 6 at the moment and my early game playstyle works like this:

    Line battle: (veterans of navy field will understand what happens here) - Scout stance, Go up to just behind the front lines, If there are healers in range, Eagle eye, Acid arrow, and Eagle Eye until they leave. Look for the ranged DPS, Eagle Eye, Acid Arrow, Eagle Eye, until they run away. Look for the tanks, Hit them with Acid Arrow once, and then move on. If any melee come close, even if they're not attacking me, switch to them, Takedown, Broadhead arrow. If they're over 50% health, Eagle eye, if not, don't bother cause whoever else is there will kill them, switch back to what I was doing.

    Single target killing: Quick hit and run style attack. Scout stance, run up and takedown, broadhead arrow, switch to assault stance, and eagle eye until it dies. If it's looking like takedown is going to wear off and it's not a tank, run up, melee it a bit, and then switch back to scout, reapply takedown, and shoot it from mid range.

    So far these are my thoughts on Shadow Warrior early game abilities (mind you, at rank 6)

    Melee: Grim strike is only useful when Brutal Assault is on cooldown, especially since you can just maneuver a bit and always be "behind" the enemy for BA to work.

    Ranged: Eagle Eye does decent damage at this point, anywhere from 20-50% of a target's HP, depending on squishiness and critting. Takedown is ungodly. It's worth running in close just to apply it; it almost guarantees a targets death in RvR, by you or otherwise. Acid Arrow is only useful against tanks; I use it against healers sometimes to make sure I'm maximizing damage on them too. Broadhead arrow is best used on a target already hit with Takedown, or a melee class so you can utilize the instant cast/fire on the run. Don't worry about using it on RDPS because you'll have to go into their range and the cost/benefit is not enough.

    That's about it. Back to blowing money on apothecary/cultivation when the server is back up.

    Lvl 21 SW replies to your impressions! On my lunch break, so just real quick replies, sorry for the disjointedness.

    You will want to start using acid arrow first, the damage bonus it gives is pretty noticable, especially in PvP, where everyone gets the benefit. Also it is really useful against anything, especially if more than one person is attacking your target. Use it, love it.

    Also you are going to want to change your battle tactics soon, you only have a couple more levels where standing back in scenarios plinking away with eagle works. Pretty soon casters are going to have longer range, do more damage, or heal faster than you can damage them. Your main contributions are going to be snaring/rooting, and dot'ing people, which involves getting up closer and staying with the melee guys.

    Unfortunetly eagle eye doesn't seem to scale that well in damage, you are going to go from seeing a noticable chunk of their life falling off, to only a notch or so.

    Broadhead arrow is actually a great skill to use on everyone, especially once you get shadowsting. You can spam the hell out of both of them, causing the D healers to heal everyone.

    On the melee, it really depends on who you are fighting in order to BA, sometimes destruction will completly ignore you, other times they will realise what a pain your snares/dots are, and kill you first. Grim strike is pretty mediocre regardless though, the only reason I use it, is I have no other option yet heh.

    So overall scout is still good for keep defense, but in scenarios you are going to find yourself in assault/skirmish stances more often, since the combat is either right up in your face, or the casters have a longer/same range than you.

    Morkath on
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    MaticoreMaticore A Will To Power Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tyrannus wrote: »
    WHAT DO YOU CALL AIRSTRIKE

    And artillery barrage. Seriously, hang with more Grenadier spec engis. We have napalm.

    Maticore on
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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Man you get Detonate and we get Ice Spikes

    Which is still awesome but nothing even remotely as awesome as Detonate


    What do Sorceressesess get that is awesome that Brights don't? Someone make me feel better here :(

    You get a disarm. We get a 50AP removal (LOL).

    Dracil on
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    Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Why is everyone saying casters will outrange a scout-speced SW? EagleEye/AcidArrow will have a range of 110, while I don't see any sorc spells(other than friendly buffs) that have a range over 100. Even a SW's AoEs(Flame Arrow and Glass Arrow) will have a range of 88, within the range of enemy single-target spells but outside most of their AoEs.

    A SH will be able to match your range if they have the +range pet out, but from what I've seen thats kinda rare. Magus is most certainly lower range than you.

    Last Son on
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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Also, Engineers get snipe, which is 5-150ft range, and undefendable (but 3s cast)

    Dracil on
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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Last Son wrote: »
    Why is everyone saying casters will outrange a scout-speced SW? EagleEye/AcidArrow will have a range of 110, while I don't see any sorc spells(other than friendly buffs) that have a range over 100. Even a SW's AoEs(Flame Arrow and Glass Arrow) will have a range of 88, within the range of enemy single-target spells but outside most of their AoEs.

    A SH will be able to match your range if they have the +range pet out, but from what I've seen thats kinda rare. Magus is most certainly lower range than you.

    A SH at max range does less than 1/2 the damage per second of a bright wizard at maximum range, unless I'm mistaken

    override367 on
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    MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    Last Son wrote: »
    Why is everyone saying casters will outrange a scout-speced SW? EagleEye/AcidArrow will have a range of 110, while I don't see any sorc spells(other than friendly buffs) that have a range over 100. Even a SW's AoEs(Flame Arrow and Glass Arrow) will have a range of 88, within the range of enemy single-target spells but outside most of their AoEs.

    A SH will be able to match your range if they have the +range pet out, but from what I've seen thats kinda rare. Magus is most certainly lower range than you.

    A SH at max range does less than 1/2 the damage per second of a bright wizard at maximum range, unless I'm mistaken

    Plus I think all the casters get a 150 range (mastery) spell. I know I keep running into it in tier 3.

    Morkath on
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    BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Man you get Detonate and we get Ice Spikes

    Which is still awesome but nothing even remotely as awesome as Detonate


    What do Sorceressesess get that is awesome that Brights don't? Someone make me feel better here :(

    A tactic that makes all crits knockbacks.

    BlueDestiny on
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    LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Man you get Detonate and we get Ice Spikes

    Which is still awesome but nothing even remotely as awesome as Detonate


    What do Sorceressesess get that is awesome that Brights don't? Someone make me feel better here :(

    A tactic that makes all crits knockbacks.

    You know what, I gotta say that that's a really convincing argument

    (edit) Wait, no it's not, that'll just knock em out of AoE clusters! YOU TRICKED ME! D:

    Ledneh on
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    CryogenCryogen Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Morkath wrote: »
    Cryogen wrote: »
    In Shadow Warrior news, i ticked over to 17 last night and specced into Skirmisher to get my spiral fletched AoE tactic. It was pretty effective, i was doing some good damage. i'll need to test further*, however my gut says its not really for me. It just wasnt panning out the way i like to play. I'll probably respec into Scout to see how effective the flame arrow ignore resists tactic is in comparison, as prior to leveling i was using the hell out of flame arrow. Also plan to spec Scout heavy in the long term.

    *Was getting some weird lag problems last night where my abilities werent firing at the end of their cast time, but were getting delayed by 3-8 seconds or so. The flow of battle in the scenarios felt totally off, and there were a few "lag!!!" comments, so i think the server was to blame. I've read on other forums similar issues with high and full pop servers in certain scenarios. Hope its better tonight so i can test more.

    I swapped out of skirmish after getting that tactic, then back into it later. Scout just didn't seem that useful so far imo (Level 21 SW). You still get hit from outside your range by casters, and for more damage and the damage you deal isn't good enough to actually do anything to melee or healers. When I switched back, I skipped the aoe spiral for now, and got shadow sting. Which is a great skill, another ranged dot that you fire off after broadhead, that lowers their healing by 50%. Lets you actually make a dent in tanks, and be a decent threat to anything else.

    Plus by going in skirmish your spiral arrows do more damage, so you can actually stay in the fight/chase after objective runners.

    Main thing im worried about, with my SW right now, is he seems like he is a bit to wide spread in his abilities, making him pretty mediocre in all of them. Or that he is at least a very late bloomer. Maybe barrage and flanking shot will help.

    Last night i got to really get some use out of split arrows. Without the horrendous server lag from 2 nights ago, it was much better. I had some really good games, doing much better on killing blows and damage, and i could tell the difference easily. However... this was Mourkains, which is practically designed for AoE damage to shine. It wasnt quite as good on the few Phoenix Gate scenarios i ran. Still useful, mind, but not tremendous. However it seems about the best choice of the three trees, for now. I'll probably follow the skirmish tree up until i can respec scout for festering arrow.

    Cryogen on
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Remember Hannibal from the A-team?

    Not as he is now.
    Not viewed through the lens of an adult.
    Not the man who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

    No, I talk of the man with a plan seen through a young man's eyes.

    I will make an engineer and regardless of how he plays, he will chew cigars, his plans will always come together, and he will always love it when they do.

    Seidkona on
    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Man you get Detonate and we get Ice Spikes

    Which is still awesome but nothing even remotely as awesome as Detonate


    What do Sorceressesess get that is awesome that Brights don't? Someone make me feel better here :(

    A tactic that makes all crits knockbacks.

    You know what, I gotta say that that's a really convincing argument

    (edit) Wait, no it's not, that'll just knock em out of AoE clusters! YOU TRICKED ME! D:

    It may do that. I have to try though.

    I'm thinking it's more useful on surging pain and infernal wave vs. melee. Keep throwing them away.

    captaink on
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    hazywaterhazywater Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Entaru wrote: »
    Remember Hannibal from the A-team?

    Not as he is now.
    Not viewed through the lens of an adult.
    Not the man who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

    No, I talk of the man with a plan seen through a young man's eyes.

    I will make an engineer and regardless of how he plays, he will chew cigars, his plans will always come together, and he will always love it when they do.

    Shouldn't that be a black orc then?

    hazywater on
    Hrin - Eve Online
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    RialeRiale I'm a little slow Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    You forget that Black Orcs start with No Plan.

    Riale on
    33c9nxz.gif
    Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
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    SWATJesterSWATJester Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    what was the level of your engineer?

    Rank 9 :(

    SWATJester on
    Moderator, PAX Prime 08, 09, 10, 10-East, panels on "Legal Issues in Gaming"
    Contributing Editor, http://www.gamepolitics.com
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Man you get Detonate and we get Ice Spikes

    Which is still awesome but nothing even remotely as awesome as Detonate


    What do Sorceressesess get that is awesome that Brights don't? Someone make me feel better here :(

    A tactic that makes all crits knockbacks.

    You know what, I gotta say that that's a really convincing argument

    (edit) Wait, no it's not, that'll just knock em out of AoE clusters! YOU TRICKED ME! D:

    They should change it to do knockdowns instead of knockbacks.. instead of breaking up the AOE cluster, it forces them to stay clustered just a bit longer :D

    Gnome-Interruptus on
    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
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    sdrawkcaB emaNsdrawkcaB emaN regular
    edited October 2008
    Playing a magus, only level 8 right now (I work 100 hrs/wk so I don't get a lot of time to play) but I've been thinking about my eventual spec.

    Was wondering if people had advice on this: http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=16#9:640:14:10888:0:0:30:8520:8516:8521:8519::::8527:8528:8529:672

    I think I'd start with path of changing, probably pursuing it exclusively until I get Dissolving Mist. My reasoning here is that, not being a strict glass-cannon class, it seems silly to dump lots of points into havoc when I'm just never going to be able to long-range nuke the way a sorc can.

    Changing just gives some really fantastic AoE abilities to lock down areas. The re-cast chance on pandemonium is fucking amazing -- the magus is pretty clearly built for keep defense, and just imagining what I could do at the gate of a keep with a flamer acting essentially as a low-grade DoT, with pandemonium going out, slap down a mass disrupt with Surge of Insanity, lay down Dissolving mist, and start spamming pandemonium and seed of chaos.

    That's some serious area-denial capability, preventing people from sticking close together, locking off a 20-foot swath with Dissolving Mist (the wardb text on Dissolving Mist is incorrect -- it doesn't have a 240ft diameter, as much as I would wish otherwise), or even more if I cast it again adjacent to the first, making healers' lives hell by both shitting on everyone with area AoE and self-reapplying pandemonium and seeds of chaos going off, and the fact that I'm laying down AoE disrupts on them.

    Oh and I totally forgot about Indigo fire of change, which is pretty neat.

    I neglect the final changing talent as it's just a pretty staightforward cone AoE with knockback that would be great except I'd have to forego what I want in Havoc for it and it's morale rank 4 so I won't get much chance to even use the damn thing.

    The Havoc talents are just gravy -- a nice self-heal/nuke combo and another disrupt to lay on healers, plus points into some of my strongest DoTs.

    Not as useful for keep defense since most of my AP will probably be going towards laying down AoEs as thick and fast as possible but might come in handy in scenarios and RvR lakes and such, when I'd have more nuking going on.

    Thoughts?

    edit: oh and demonology gets no points because it's balls.

    None of the abilities I will actually be using past level 20 are in demonology, since I use the Flamer; the insta-cast for demons is worthless since they're basically useless unless you're somewhere where you're going to have time to prepare anyway, and they are pretty supplemental at best anyway; aegis of orange fire would be nice and so would chaotic rift but they both seem like gravy, as opposed to the meat-and-potatoes of Changing's AoEs. The armor buff is a core ability and not affected by demonology, yeah like I said aegis of orange fire and insa-cast for demons is really all demonology has to offer, and I'm not sure insta-cast demons would ever be worth its own tactic slot anyway.

    sdrawkcaB emaN on
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    As a level 12 squig herder, last night I lost a fight to a dwarf ironbreaker. A dwarf ironbreaker of equal level who never got into melee range. Yes. He killed me with his little throw hammers or whatever skill. I combined slows, sprints and snares so that he never got into range, had my horned squig on him all the time, and bombarded him from range with sideways running run and shoots, using plink when I got to extreme range, or he stopped to fight the squig.

    I mean, what more can I do? It was a fun battle, and I thought I was going to win since I had got away quickly losing only a few hundred health after he got the jump on me, and I still lost. Are tanks simply unbeatable at any distance by herders?

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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