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The Perfect Game(s)
Professor Snugglesworth
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Registered User regular
Plenty of games have gotten perfect scores by gaming magazines and websites over the years, but how many games have truly deserved the title of "perfect"?
Since no game in the world is considered truly perfect by every game player on earth, this is the thread for each person to list the games they consider to be truly perfect.
Keep in mind that your choices don't necessarily have to be toward games that are flawless in every conceivable way, just close enough to perfect that you have no real complaints about it, and can't imagine anything that could have been added or modified to make it better.
I've made this thread before in the past, and I stand by my first three choices, along with a new fourth one that I've decided upon today.
1. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Link to the Past was probably the first game in which I eagerly followed the previews and scans leading up to its release, building up a large amount of hype for myself. That hype was met and exceeded.
Super Mario World was an impressive first look into the power of the SNES, but LttP was the first to show me the real difference between the NES and SNES. As soon as the game starts up, I was awestruck by the extra graphical details, such as the dark shadows inside Link's house to the thundering rain on the outside, and the taller, more menacing enemies once you entered Hyrule Castle.
Refined controls, awesome new tools and weapons, the finest Zelda soundtrack ever, and it even featured a surprisingly dark story involving more than a handful of major deaths (that includes Zelda herself; a little known fact about the Dark World that's brought to light in the manga adaptions is that it's also where all the dead gather).
I can say this with confidence each time: It's the best Zelda game ever, and the best Nintendo game ever.
2. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Yes, yes, Rose is annoying and Raiden is whiny. Let it all out.
Done? Good. This is still the best game in the Metal Gear series, and what I still consider to be the most significant display of a visual leap between two consoles (MGS4 wasn't as shocking a difference from its PS2 predecessors). I remember bringing the demo to my college's rec room; Everyone stopped what they were doing and watched me show off the awesome new gameplay mechanics; Hiding in lockers, shooting the enemy in specific parts of their body, making all the fruit in the storage room explode, arranging the dead bodies in perverted positions. Then came the cutscene in Olga and everyone was just "whoa".
And hey, I actually liked Raiden. It was never Kojima's intention to have him replace Snake, just to create an original character so we could see Snake through a different perspective. Watching him as a mentor or sorts only made him more badass.
"Oh God, how can they make this final showdown anymore awesome?"
(birds flutter by)
"There we fucking go."
3. Resident Evil 4
The most recent game of the bunch, but that hasn't stopped me from putting it on my small list of perfection; RE4 is still praised around the web (including this forum), and it still deserves all the good things said about it. I've played a large amount of action games, and RE4 is one of the few I can come back to over and over and not grow bored of it. Very few games create the heart raising tension this one does, with waves of angry spanish swearing infected running toward you, fully determined to serve you up into meat chunks (actual translation), along with numerous quick paced sequences showing off what a badass Leon is. And whether intentional or not, the script is good old B movie hilarity and instantly quotable.
"I have prior engagements"
4. Sonic 3 and Knuckles
Freshly added to my list, Sonic 3 and Knuckles represents, in my opinion, Sonic and Sega's finest hour. I know lots of people say that Sonic CD deserves that honor, but I stand by my decision. Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were both great on their own, but combining the two opens up the largest side scrolling adventure of all time. The stage variety was amazing, the soundtrack was incredible, and you had four ways to play through the game (Sonic, Tails, Sonic and Tails, Knuckles), with different final bosses awaiting Sonic and Knuckles (the latter features the badass resurrection of Metal Sonic. What's he doing with the Master Emerald? Oh shi-), and an epic space race to wrap everything up.
This game was also one of the first examples of storytelling with no dialogue; The way Knuckles would screw around with our heroes on every turn, Eggman setting the whole forest on fire (I gasped), followed by Knuckle's sudden realization that he was being played, then deciding to help Sonic put an end to Eggman's plans.
Sonic's most epic game. Also his last good one.
I'm still on the fence about including FFVI to the list...
Since no game in the world is considered truly perfect by every game player on earth, this is the thread for each person to list the games they consider to be truly perfect.
Keep in mind that your choices don't necessarily have to be toward games that are flawless in every conceivable way, just close enough to perfect that you have no real complaints about it, and can't imagine anything that could have been added or modified to make it better.
I've made this thread before in the past, and I stand by my first three choices, along with a new fourth one that I've decided upon today.
1. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Link to the Past was probably the first game in which I eagerly followed the previews and scans leading up to its release, building up a large amount of hype for myself. That hype was met and exceeded.
Super Mario World was an impressive first look into the power of the SNES, but LttP was the first to show me the real difference between the NES and SNES. As soon as the game starts up, I was awestruck by the extra graphical details, such as the dark shadows inside Link's house to the thundering rain on the outside, and the taller, more menacing enemies once you entered Hyrule Castle.
Refined controls, awesome new tools and weapons, the finest Zelda soundtrack ever, and it even featured a surprisingly dark story involving more than a handful of major deaths (that includes Zelda herself; a little known fact about the Dark World that's brought to light in the manga adaptions is that it's also where all the dead gather).
I can say this with confidence each time: It's the best Zelda game ever, and the best Nintendo game ever.
2. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Yes, yes, Rose is annoying and Raiden is whiny. Let it all out.
Done? Good. This is still the best game in the Metal Gear series, and what I still consider to be the most significant display of a visual leap between two consoles (MGS4 wasn't as shocking a difference from its PS2 predecessors). I remember bringing the demo to my college's rec room; Everyone stopped what they were doing and watched me show off the awesome new gameplay mechanics; Hiding in lockers, shooting the enemy in specific parts of their body, making all the fruit in the storage room explode, arranging the dead bodies in perverted positions. Then came the cutscene in Olga and everyone was just "whoa".
And hey, I actually liked Raiden. It was never Kojima's intention to have him replace Snake, just to create an original character so we could see Snake through a different perspective. Watching him as a mentor or sorts only made him more badass.
"Oh God, how can they make this final showdown anymore awesome?"
(birds flutter by)
"There we fucking go."
3. Resident Evil 4
The most recent game of the bunch, but that hasn't stopped me from putting it on my small list of perfection; RE4 is still praised around the web (including this forum), and it still deserves all the good things said about it. I've played a large amount of action games, and RE4 is one of the few I can come back to over and over and not grow bored of it. Very few games create the heart raising tension this one does, with waves of angry spanish swearing infected running toward you, fully determined to serve you up into meat chunks (actual translation), along with numerous quick paced sequences showing off what a badass Leon is. And whether intentional or not, the script is good old B movie hilarity and instantly quotable.
"I have prior engagements"
4. Sonic 3 and Knuckles
Freshly added to my list, Sonic 3 and Knuckles represents, in my opinion, Sonic and Sega's finest hour. I know lots of people say that Sonic CD deserves that honor, but I stand by my decision. Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were both great on their own, but combining the two opens up the largest side scrolling adventure of all time. The stage variety was amazing, the soundtrack was incredible, and you had four ways to play through the game (Sonic, Tails, Sonic and Tails, Knuckles), with different final bosses awaiting Sonic and Knuckles (the latter features the badass resurrection of Metal Sonic. What's he doing with the Master Emerald? Oh shi-), and an epic space race to wrap everything up.
This game was also one of the first examples of storytelling with no dialogue; The way Knuckles would screw around with our heroes on every turn, Eggman setting the whole forest on fire (I gasped), followed by Knuckle's sudden realization that he was being played, then deciding to help Sonic put an end to Eggman's plans.
Sonic's most epic game. Also his last good one.
I'm still on the fence about including FFVI to the list...
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I wholly support this fact. MGS3 had better storytelling, the camo index, and no Raiden. The last hour and a half of the game (including cutscenes) is masterful.
SNAAAAAAAAKE EEEEEEEEATER
Pretty close to perfect
And I think we are all aware that we are discussing subjective perfects, Mr. Crankypants.
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But....What about Psychonauts?
Beyond Good and Evil - I hate stealth gaming, except here. Again, you have a fascinating world, engaging characters and a well-written story matched to excellent gameplay. There's a moment in this game where you are running from a large group of enemies that has never been matched by any game I have ever played.
Super Mario bros 3
This game still gives me a warm feeling made of childhood awe, memories, and awesome. It captivated me like nothing has since.
I have an un-opened copy of it sitting on my shelf.
And all is right with the world. This game was so awesome, Nintendo's been releasing it over and over in 3D for years. Okay, Majora's Mask was pretty bad ass.
i would say the last hour and half is the best hour and half in any video game.
So good.
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FFVI sprang to my mind as well but I think random battles alone should keep any FF title off this list, which is a stupid list to try and make anyway
Incredibly fun while playing solo. Still the best party game I've seen. An endless (so far) stream of weekly downloadable content. It covers an incredibly diverse spectrum of rock, with over 500 playable tracks by the end of the year.
There are great games I pick up and replay through once in a while, many of which have been listed here: SMB3, MGS2, Resident Evil 4 (though I'm kind of starting to feel the wear on RE4). And that's all fine and commendable. But I've been playing Rock Band for nearly a year now, continuously. I don't think I've gone more than four or five days without popping in, and there were quite a few weeks where I didn't get any of the downloadable content. But I love the feeling of booting it up and seeing a huge list of songs, many of which I bought and chose at my discretion, that I still have yet to master, sitting there, Gold Star-less, beckoning me to play through it again to try and nail that high score.
Pretty much pure bliss and enjoyment in video game form. It has flaws (mainly just instrument problems), but the pros far outweigh the cons.
So perfect in fact that even the developers themselves dont think they will make a third just because where can they go from here?
I will be playing that game in 10 years, no question.
So many strategy games fall into this 'perfect' category.
Civ 4 is the obvious choice, Roller Coaster Tycoon 2, any one of the multitude of Sim Citys, Homeworld 2.
I came in here to post exactly what Spoit just said.
I'm going to quote something I wrote about Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri in D&D -
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
And Wasteland:
Other picks:
Shadow of the Colossus and Tetris Attack / Puzzle League
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
its so funny because now a days i see kids go to eb games and buy barbie princess and toyota car racer
back in my day, i had a e-mac and mac store. somehow i managed to blindly choose:
alpha centauri, baulders gate 2, and age of empires 2.
thats pretty much all i played for 2 years.
alpha centauri is so ace
Hey, you know what causes threads like this to go off the deep end?
When people start shooting down other people's picks without giving reasoned, well-thought-out criticism.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
unique battle system
multiple paths
multiple endings
elaborate and involved plot (if ever so slightly convoluted)
and the most bitchin' soundtrack I've ever heard in a video game
I did not like the battle with The End.
He really might as well not even fight back. I was bored out of my mind, chasing him around with zero risk of losing.
Was I doing something wrong?
Granted, MGS2 was awful. Raiden aside, the controls are clunky, the cutscenes were overwrought, and the story made NO sense.
Like, none at all.
I like MGS3, though. It toned down the absurdity of the plot and the survival mechanics are pretty sweet.
By that standard, I'd consider Shadow of the Colossus to be perfect.
I don't think it's possible for any game to be perfect simply because the medium is tied to technology that is always improving.
Like Ocarina of Time. I can't play the damn thing. When I first saw it, I was playing Half-Life on a 3dfx card. Due entirely to the limitations of the N64 hardware, Ocarina of Time looked ass-ugly to me. I recognize that artistically it was an achievement but the blockiness and fuzziness and rippling textures just killed it for me. The N64 wasn't the greatest hardware to begin with and by Christmas of 1998 it was getting pretty long in the tooth. They did the best they could with what they had.
If Nintendo re-released it on a new graphics engine capable of taking advantage of the Wii hardware or perhaps if I played it on a DS screen (where the graphical flaws aren't as jarring) I'd be able to enjoy it more.
But I still recognize that it was a great game and an important achievement.
I could see somebody making the same criticism of Shadow of the Colossus, which is on my vanity list of "best games." The PS2 is pretty much pushed to the limit by it, so technologically it's not really "perfect," even though I consider it a masterpiece.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Yes, Konami is trying to whore it to death on the DS, but the original still stands as one of their best games.
The 2D side-scrolling beat-'em-up by which all others must be judged.
Tight controls, strategic combat, co-op play, and a well-implemented beast-riding system. I find it to be the most enjoyable, well-crafted game in the genre, except perhaps for Golden Axe II, which mildly tweaked and improved upon an already near-perfect formula.
This thread is for games that you yourself consider perfect. Are you incapable of feeling this way with a game? If so, then I do feel bad.
I feel the gameplay took a small hit when they moved it to a jungle setting, because much of my view was obstructed of the guards due to all the trees and foliage. Even the improved camera in Subsistence didn't help completely, and there was too much background noise going on at once for you to pinpoint what direction the guard is coming from. I also found the menu for changing items, weapons, and camo slowed things down a bit.
Don't get me wrong, MGS3 is better written and has the single greatest chase scene/finale in the history of anything, but I still have more fun with MGS2.
I wanted to list a Mario game, I really did, especially World (which I still love more than 3, even though I loved 3 a whole lot), but there's always a point somewhere near the end of each Mario where I get slightly bored, probably because the increase in difficulty and the creativity of the levels reaching an end. In other words, I get a case of the sameys followed by missing a jump or two over and over.
This didn't occur in Galaxy though, but I'm hesitant about calling that one perfect regardless (needed more worlds).
Adding any FF to a "perfect" list is going to start a flame war with anyone who has a favorite RPG. Even though I consider FFVI the most overall polished of all the FF games, I can't call it perfect because other FF games have done some things better.
In my case, I like FFVII's setting and characters best, but I felt FFX had the best battle system, while VI had the best music, but IV had the best ending, and so on. The day they make a FF game that does the best everything of its predecessors, then I'll label it as perfect.
Another game I really, really wanted to add to my list. This one is especially close, but it misses the mark for two reasons.
1. The leveling up makes backtracking a chore; You're so powerful that all the lower class enemies die in a single strike, even if you strip down to your bare hands.
2. No levels outside the castle. Yes, I know this is intentional, but I really loved the areas in Castlevania III and IV.
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And the last boss is a joke.
After some of the prior bosses, I went into it expecting this huge epic fight and got... a total cakewalk. That was kind of a let-down.
Also, the big secret at the halfway mark, the one that determines whether the game ends or whether you get to see the second half of the game, isn't exactly well-telegraphed. Yeah, I know some people figured it out. But I wouldn't have had a friend of mine not finished the game first. I felt like it was one of those situations where you basically needed access to a guide or FAQ to progress, and I think that's bad game design.
SotN is still one of my favoritest games evar, though.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Your brought this upon yourself....
Firstly, let me start by saying strategy games is my thing. Not only have I been playing that genre since early childhood on the first PCs (talking mid 1980s here) but I have actively sought them out for the last 10-12 years constantly. I own just about everything there is and some that have never even been out of beta. My father is in the credits for several Microprose classics as a tester and I played Civilization well before anyone here. Not being arrogant here, just making sure it is clear I know my shit. You can talk to me for ages about sports games or the history of FPS games and I wont know a thing. But strategy, thats just where I live.
Why is colonization better than alpha centauri? Well the informed answer is three fold.
Firstly, the gameplay.
Colonization was an absolute evolution of everything presented in the 1991 release of Civlization by the same team. The strict adherence to the real world and established locations (in this case, the founding of the new world (1490s - 15whatevers) allows the game a much greater depth of strategy than its fictitious and science fiction based Alpha Centauri cousin. What you see here are real explorers, real units and real places. You struggle with real problems, found cities that inhabit a landscape that is real. And while from a gameplay perspective this may seem neither here nor there from a design standpoint it is essentially pivotal. This allowed Brian and Sid to concentrate much more on the balance and advancements than the creation of the world. Units had real world attributes that meant they could be implemented in the game flawlessly, rather than having to have the world created around them. An example of this is the various special units found in Colonization that are not in Alpha Centauri (in that they dont have counterparts)
This is partly due to the more streamlined combat in the latter but also because it follows a different design philosophy. AC is definitely cramming in a lot but each 'thing' be it unit, structure or mechanic has less differentiation from the rest because there is just too much of it. Mainly because AC represents most of the ideas that they couldn't fit into Civ 2 which could no longer be tided over into Civ 3 now that Firaxis was no longer part of Microprose (long live that glorious studio, F15 Strike Eagle fo lyfe bitches)
Essentially what I'm getting at here is that Colonization's units and mechanics had more meaning, talking specifically about famous persons, the military units themselves and wonders.
Colonization also rewards success in a more cohesive way. Where Alpha Centauri structures the game around choice Colonization structures around advancement. When you do well your people like you and you get founding fathers and so on and so on. In AC when you do well you just get statistical bonuses to your civiization, economics or political. You dont get that 'Magellan has discovered all enemy faction ports' feeling to the unlocks.
Also, the individual city (or base) management is much better in Colonization, in lieu of the more structured resourcing and population control. Also, the implementation of getting shit shipped over from Europe in Colonization made the back and forth of the game much better. There is less of s slippery slope because you can just dial 1-800 KING CHARLES and get those new horsemen you wanted. This allows for more on map risks and daring strategy.
Secondly, another aspect I feel Colonization had over alpha centauri is tone.
The new world region is I think ripe for games and hasnt been strip mined like science fiction. This also limits the game to more cohesive yet more developed factions. Playing as the English meants more than playing as the Peacekeeping Forces because it dictated much more the way you play the game and how you interact with other races. In this way AC feels much more like reskinned versions of the same race while Colonization had many features which distinguished its ones, such as the aforementioned European booty call or the on map unit selection. You didnt just start with different ones like Civ 1 or 2 you actively made variations throughout, keeping the persistance of choice active.
Also, I guess I just preferred the world of Colonization, the way you manage this period of history is great. It is like taking one slice of Civ 1 and putting it under the microscope. Not even Civ 4 managed that level of detail and I guess in the future a Civ 5 of whatever probably will have an entire game with this much focus on time periods (though I can imagine the game would last 100x longer). In Alpha centauri, you are fighting for these unknown factions for an unknown planet for unknown reasons, ostensibly speaking. In Colonization you are fighting for America, and god fucking damn it the English will win this time if I have anything to say about it.
The units are more tactile to use (no laser beams here) and have more ties to real life, which I think is what makes Civ so great. You arent just moving shit around a map, you are conquering the world.
Lastly, lets look at the legacy of the games. Ignoring the fact that Colonization is getting a Civ 4 revamp this year, I still think it holds up better today than AC. This is mainly down to the visual style I think. AC went for that Civ 3 isometric look which I never liked at all (Civ 4 being the exception because it pushed past iso into iso3d) and keeps the game simple. Cities are squares, rivers are blue lines. the whole thing has more scale and less fluff. What I dont want in my strategy games is needless clutter and AC has a lot of it. Looking at the UIS and ignoring the disparities in PC technology between them colonization is cleaner and has impacted more genre games throughout time, the unit selection and movement is basically everything you see in DS strategy games today, and the city management devices have not changed hardly even in Civ 4. What you see with Colonization like Civ 1 itself is genesis. The game that will shape all forthcoming games in that genre. Alpha Centauri does have a few improvements but what you noticably dont see is an Alpha Centauri 2, or 3, or Alpha Centauri Revolutions. The Colonization and Civ games have persisted and that has not. Down to many things (see above) but also because I think the designers themselves just wanted it more.
AC was a stopgap in so many ways, graphically, mechanically but also legally. They literally werent allowed to make Civ 3, having left Microprose to form Firaxis. AC is what they made to 'make do' and it wasnt until they regained rights later on that they made civ 4. They went back to the greatness, not to the sci fi realms of centauri.
Cv games, and Colonization, are trying to do several things. They are trying to give you a good gameplay experience, trying to entertain you, but I also know they are trying to educate. Civ 1 started life as a teaching tool in many ways, and that theme has persisted throughout. I know for a fact Sid Meier has always sought to be authentic in his games (he said so himself to me) and this has been since the very earliest days of Microprose. This level of detail is much more evident in Colonization, it has a richer backdrop, better technologies and advancements that not only provide gameplay functionality but narrative too. Getting bells to get your senate up and running is so much better than picking technologies from a list. Who gives a shit about eudaimonia when you can get fucking Cortez to give you more gold?
These are just examples of the many ways in which Colonization has informed game design and Alpha Centauri has not.
Dont get me wrong, I really enjoyed AC, but it doesnt have that genre defining impact of Colonization. Many people ignore the latter though because it is one of the earliest. 1994 is for many just too early to be into Pc gaming than 1999. I mean Starcraft is for a lot of people their first RTS and yet we were of the opinion that genre was merely getting into its stride by then. In the same way that Mario 64 is sometimes misappropriated at 'classic mario' I think alpha Centauri is here. It wasnt the first, nor the best. It was just a shiny finish with some major missing parts. Colonization was defining, and epic.
Colonization is better than Alpha Centauri because not only has it influenced design more, but it did so nearly 5 years before the latter was released.