I bought this back in February (hey, my post was on the last page!), but this game is pure trash IMO. I really don't know how people found it superior to GTAIV at all, because it certainly wasn't the "fun" aspect, which this game completely lacked while GTAIV had it in truckloads.
I bought this back in February (hey, my post was on the last page!), but this game is pure trash IMO. I really don't know how people found it superior to GTAIV at all, because it certainly wasn't the "fun" aspect, which this game completely lacked while GTAIV had it in truckloads.
And I don't get your opinion either, so we're even.
I bought this game back in February also... basically I purchased Lost & the Damned DLC, and after I'd finished that, I had a real itch to keep playing that type of game. I almost went back into the GTA IV campaign (which I've beaten twice already), but when someone mentioned off-handedly in another thread about SR2, it was enough to prompt me to go pick it up.
I have to say, I'm really glad I did. The game wasn't deep, the storyline was pretty thin, but holy shit it was fun to play. Lots of crazy stuff to do and the gun battles were insane. Driving was pretty terrible after playing GTA IV, as the cars seem to have no 'weight' at all, but this was not something that kept me from enjoying the hell out of all the carnage.
Also, I am a whore for being able to customize my rides, and this is something that SR2 does extremely well. I was so disappointed when GTA took away this ability entirely, as I get absolutely giddy when I roll out of the garage in my new souped-up sex machine.
Also, they could have seriously made a whole game out of Fuzz, that was so much hilarious fun.
I bought this back in February (hey, my post was on the last page!), but this game is pure trash IMO. I really don't know how people found it superior to GTAIV at all, because it certainly wasn't the "fun" aspect, which this game completely lacked while GTAIV had it in truckloads.
UV, you know I normally disagree with you but this time I have to super-duper disagree with you. GTA4 is the most boring, linear sand-box game I've ever played and the only GTa I ever traded and within a month to, it took away all the fun and customisation for a shitty story with a shitty character in a brown, empty world filled with few interiors that are all the same.
SR2 has it beat in every possible way. It might not be all fancy-shmancy in the graphics but I'll take a graphical hit for gameplay every time.
Well, for reference, I sold GTA IV after having it for 2 days, maybe? I hated the driving in that game, I hated the shitty missions you were forced to do. I like the idea of it, I had a lot of fun in GTA III back in the day.
I don't love the driving in Saint's Row, but at least it's easy. I also like that there aren't as many tedious missions--lots of huge ass gunbattles or on-rails style shooting so far. The customization is really, really awesome though, probably one of my favorite parts of the game. My female main character is a mean, smarmy looking bitch and it's awesome.
Rockstar chose to indulge their own story over gameplay, limiting the players options to ensure they couldn't do anything out of the ordinary during missions and such. I like a good story as much as anybody, it can make me play though a terrible game if its interesting enough, GTA4s isnt that good. I'm not into Rocknrolla, Lockstock and all that shit, hard core gangsters and ex-militia are not fun to everyone.
Saints Row 2 has a story to tell and in some ways it offends even me which is an achievement, but its willing to let you do what ever you want and dress/look however you want because its more important you do what you want than what the makers want.
Man I loved Snatch and LockStock (RockNRolla was decent at best) so that has nothing to do with it.
I just don't play games like this for the story, and even if I did, GTA IV's story just wasn't special enough to convince me to slog through the more annoying parts of the gameplay. I mean, seriously, I didn't enjoy any of the first missions you do in that game because they're "working you up" to the more interesting stuff. They don't really do that in SR2, and there are a lot less "chase" missions.
Not to mention they actually use goddamn checkpoints which is something GTA IV needed really fucking badly.
Hard to believe I'm actually defending GTA IV here... only because I've never figured that it would get the sort've criticisms that are being levelled here. I understand that no game is for everybody, no matter how good it is, but seriously, saying the story was uninteresting? It did drag a bit in the middle, sure, but it's easily one of the better stories I've played in an action video game. Niko was a great character and a true badass, but I can see where some people might just not connect with him.
The driving in GTA IV was a bit tricky, but again I can't understand someone giving up on the whole game because of that. It took a little practice, but even I, not a 'pro' gamer by any means, was able to race around town at break-neck speeds once I figured out how the physics worked.
That being said, Saint's Row II was hands-down the winner when it comes to customization and pure, unadulterated mad fun. My first character was a big, muscular aussie dude (the accent sounded aussie at least) and is probably one of the coolest protagonists I've ever played. Few times in my gaming history have I loved hearing my own character talk so much.
The second character I made truly demonstrates the whackiness of this game: I took a male body and shifted the 'body type' until I got bewbs, then made it fairly muscular and gave it the female hispanic accent. I guess technically my char was a shemale, but 'she' was such a badass and I had a blast all over again.
I had crazy good times with both of these. I feel sorry for those who didn't like one or the other, because these are two excellent and superfun games.
The problem I had with the driving is that some cars just plain handled like shit, which made chase missions frustrating. I had some issues even with some of the earlier missions for this reason---the first goddamn motorcycle chase especially. I've honestly never liked the missions in most GTA's anyway---too easy to fail because of one mistake or one randomly placed bit of traffic. To say nothing of the lack of checkpoints.
I don't doubt that the story isn't terrible---it just wasn't good enough for me to try and play through gameplay I didn't like that much (which I admit to having done in RPG's a time or two).
I feel like i'm super blessed and happy because I like both GT4 and SR2.
the two games stood on the same crossroads (GTASA) and took opposing paths. GTA4 is more realistic and puts a greater emphasis on storytelling over freedom, while SR2 is more insane stuff to be done and focuses on player freedom and choice.
The problem I had with the driving is that some cars just plain handled like shit, which made chase missions frustrating. I had some issues even with some of the earlier missions for this reason---the first goddamn motorcycle chase especially. I've honestly never liked the missions in most GTA's anyway---too easy to fail because of one mistake or one randomly placed bit of traffic. To say nothing of the lack of checkpoints.
I don't doubt that the story isn't terrible---it just wasn't good enough for me to try and play through gameplay I didn't like that much (which I admit to having done in RPG's a time or two).
People found many of the 'chase' sequences extremely difficult because they didn't understand that they were scripted. I hated this about the chases, especially since the game didn't give any hints that they were, but the simple knowledge that most every chase in the game is scripted helps to make them so much easier.
For example, that motorcycle chase. It's mainly scripted... there is the possibility that you'll kill the guy towards the end of the chase, but most likely you're going to just waste ammo and wipe out trying to get close enough... so the best bet is to just hang back and let him get to the end of his ride, where you can kill him and all his friends. It also helps to do this in a car, because though the game tells you to hop on a bike, you absolutely don't have to.
I was really glad that there weren't a bunch of chase missions in SR2 though, that's for sure. Those that did exist were mostly pretty easy because the driving in this game is so simple, there was no scripting keeping me from killing a bitch, and the submachine guns could really tear a vehicle up nicely.
The only issues I ever had chasing someone was that crazed postal worker in the Fuzz missions. Fuck that guy.
Well, I wasn't a fan of SR2, but anyone who wants a more fun-oriented GTA clone should definitely check out the Wheelman demo on PS3/360. I'm so sold on it.
Consider this: You've got Tera Patrick on speed dial. She's unloading an assault rifle into a Masako super soldier while you're driving around a truck full of dead bodies. In your garage you've got an armored vehicle that fires heat-seeking missiles as fast as you can pull the trigger… and you're wearing a new alien costume. Honestly, WTF is going on here?
Alright! I've really been looking forward to new stuff for this game. I doubt we'll ever get it, but I really want shoulder holsters so my Boss can wear his guns visibly.8-)
I'm interested to know how much content it's actually going to be though. I really like SR2 but I'm wary about DLC in general. Though the mission meta-game sounds pretty nice.
I too wonder how much they can really add to the game, but I guess an additional story with some more missions might be cool. After all, SR2 is trying to outdo GTA IV, so they'll definately want their DLC to compete with L&D right? Right!?
I thought about doing the same thing after I played L&D, but then I just bought SR2 instead. I still think about going back to play Niko's story again. Maybe after I finally finish my ME playthrough so that I'll have something to transfer to ME2.
I too wonder how much they can really add to the game, but I guess an additional story with some more missions might be cool. After all, SR2 is trying to outdo GTA IV, so they'll definately want their DLC to compete with L&D right? Right!?
I think, if anything, they're going another path. Apparently the bonus content (the story with Tera Patrick) is about two hours long. Plus the new co-op mode which could add some replayability to the game.
And then you have the extra weapons, costumes, and vehicles, which is honestly what I'm more excited about. Because that's where SR2 really shines, in the customization and the "doing crazy shit" category.
I gotta say I have to go along with Zero Punctuation on this one. Rockstar seems to have gone out of their way to keep players from having ridiculous bubbles of fun surfing on cars and pulling off completely unrealistic car tricks and whatnot. I completely lost interest in GTA IV the second or third time I tried going through that first required "date" mission.
Saint's Row, however, recognizes and rewards ludicrous behavior. They took the bare fact of every player trying to surf on cars and turned it into a genuine game mechanic. There's a sidequest where you literally spray shit at people with a sewage treatment truck. My character currently runs around the city committing crimes in a deep sea diving suit. It's childish lunacy and the whole thing was great.
That being said, Saint's Row II was hands-down the winner when it comes to customization and pure, unadulterated mad fun. My first character was a big, muscular aussie dude (the accent sounded aussie at least) and is probably one of the coolest protagonists I've ever played. Few times in my gaming history have I loved hearing my own character talk so much.
Why is it so bloody hard for the rest of the world to tell the difference between Australians and the English?
I gotta say I have to go along with Zero Punctuation on this one. Rockstar seems to have gone out of their way to keep players from having ridiculous bubbles of fun surfing on cars and pulling off completely unrealistic car tricks and whatnot. I completely lost interest in GTA IV the second or third time I tried going through that first required "date" mission.
Saint's Row, however, recognizes and rewards ludicrous behavior. They took the bare fact of every player trying to surf on cars and turned it into a genuine game mechanic. There's a sidequest where you literally spray shit at people with a sewage treatment truck. My character currently runs around the city committing crimes in a deep sea diving suit. It's childish lunacy and the whole thing was great.
I don't entirely agree with this. GTA IV was tons of fun because it had a pretty solid, emotional storyline that was very gritty and dark. I can understand why some wouldn't like that, not a problem. But the game still had tons of crazy ways to kill people, and the physics really made it amazing. When I hit someone with my car, I could see how much it hurt them by the way they fell.
SR2 is just over-the-top and crazy, which is not a bad thing... it's very different from the path Rockstar took, which is great. I do love the crazy shit the game lets you do, and especially I love the customization of both my car and my character, things I sorely missed in GTA. Still, as funny as driving around literally spraying shit over everything sounds, it's really one of the most boring minigames I have played in a long time. Some of the other activities were way more fun, such as Mayhem, Fuzz, and that one where you drive around while on fire.
Basically, both games were great overall and fill different needs I have in gameplay... which is awesome that they both exist. I'd definately not want either series to go away.
That being said, Saint's Row II was hands-down the winner when it comes to customization and pure, unadulterated mad fun. My first character was a big, muscular aussie dude (the accent sounded aussie at least) and is probably one of the coolest protagonists I've ever played. Few times in my gaming history have I loved hearing my own character talk so much.
Why is it so bloody hard for the rest of the world to tell the difference between Australians and the English?
Lack of exposure? I mean, could you tell the difference between someone from Texas or from Georgia?
Basically, both games were great overall and fill different needs I have in gameplay... which is awesome that they both exist. I'd definately not want either series to go away.
I gotta say I have to go along with Zero Punctuation on this one. Rockstar seems to have gone out of their way to keep players from having ridiculous bubbles of fun surfing on cars and pulling off completely unrealistic car tricks and whatnot. I completely lost interest in GTA IV the second or third time I tried going through that first required "date" mission.
Saint's Row, however, recognizes and rewards ludicrous behavior. They took the bare fact of every player trying to surf on cars and turned it into a genuine game mechanic. There's a sidequest where you literally spray shit at people with a sewage treatment truck. My character currently runs around the city committing crimes in a deep sea diving suit. It's childish lunacy and the whole thing was great.
I don't entirely agree with this. GTA IV was tons of fun because it had a pretty solid, emotional storyline that was very gritty and dark. I can understand why some wouldn't like that, not a problem. But the game still had tons of crazy ways to kill people, and the physics really made it amazing. When I hit someone with my car, I could see how much it hurt them by the way they fell.
SR2 is just over-the-top and crazy, which is not a bad thing... it's very different from the path Rockstar took, which is great. I do love the crazy shit the game lets you do, and especially I love the customization of both my car and my character, things I sorely missed in GTA. Still, as funny as driving around literally spraying shit over everything sounds, it's really one of the most boring minigames I have played in a long time. Some of the other activities were way more fun, such as Mayhem, Fuzz, and that one where you drive around while on fire.
Basically, both games were great overall and fill different needs I have in gameplay... which is awesome that they both exist. I'd definately not want either series to go away.
That being said, Saint's Row II was hands-down the winner when it comes to customization and pure, unadulterated mad fun. My first character was a big, muscular aussie dude (the accent sounded aussie at least) and is probably one of the coolest protagonists I've ever played. Few times in my gaming history have I loved hearing my own character talk so much.
Why is it so bloody hard for the rest of the world to tell the difference between Australians and the English?
Lack of exposure? I mean, could you tell the difference between someone from Texas or from Georgia?
I dunno, he said 'mate' and I figured Australian.
GTA4 is doing something wrong because I'm a rabit GTA fan and I hated it. Honestly I don't think the storyline was good or impressive at all, I'm not sure where people get this from. Its bare bones at best, Niko wants one guy so he works with one guy, then the next, then the next, lamenting on how he keeps working for bad people and doing bad things. Instead of innovating they just bought the best tech they could and then decided to remove features while implementing probably the most hated feature from GTA:San Andreas into every facet of gameplay.
GTA4 is doing something wrong because I'm a rabit GTA fan and I hated it. Honestly I don't think the storyline was good or impressive at all, I'm not sure where people get this from. Its bare bones at best, Niko wants one guy so he works with one guy, then the next, then the next, lamenting on how he keeps working for bad people and doing bad things. Instead of innovating they just bought the best tech they could and then decided to remove features while implementing probably the most hated feature from GTA:San Andreas into every facet of gameplay.
There are many layers to the GTA story that go beyond his search for revenge: Family, loyalty, betrayal, loneliness... I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and tell you that you somehow failed if you didn't like the story, but at the same time, the story isn't bad because you didn't like it. The main flaw with the story of GTA IV is that Rockstar hasn't really changed the way they tell a story since GTA III... you go from mission to mission, learning things through cutscenes in a linear progression.
The story also tends to drag midway just because Rockstar tries to artificially lengthen the game; it's not terrible in my mind, because I love the different missions and meeting all sorts've whacky characters, but it could be done better. I personally would love if they could figure out a way to blur the 'on mission' and 'off mission' playtimes, so it's not such a distinct difference. Or at the very least, having fewer missions but making them longer with checkpoints and mini-goals would probably help to keep the story more cohesive.
I guess that's sort've off-topic as this is the Saint's Row 2 thread and all, but oh well. It's pretty tough to talk about SR without bringing up GTA, since the former has stolen so blatantly from the latter, particularly in the first Saint's Row. As I said above though, SR2 did go in a completely different direction from GTA IV in terms of over-the-top whackiness and sheer bombastic stunts, and I'm glad that many people like it. Its success does not diminish GTA's greatness though... they are two slices from a very delicious pie.
Actually it does diminish GTA4, because it highlights what a complete sack of shit GTA4 is by comparison. You can over-examine a simple revenge story as much as you like but it doesn't change the fact that the gameplay sucks balls compared to saints row 2.
Honestly Pickle, I dont like it being this way, I despised Saints Row 1 for all the reasons mentioned, it was a shallow, empty, bitter clone of GTA. But Saints Row 2 has GTA 4 on its knees.
No, he doesn't tilt almost 90 degrees when he turns a corner and hes not rendered as well graphically but the game does everything better. Things i can do in missions I can do outside them as well and there are more unique interiors in SA than there are in GTA4 which was promised in spades to compensate for the shrinking land size.
Rockstar played the interviewers or the interviewers played us but GTA4 didn't live up to expectations and while we can't argue with its sales, its not like there are only a minority who don't like it. I had to force myself to finish it and I've played some bad games in my time but I've never had to force myself to finish it up just to say its done, completed and over. I honestly, truly hope GTA4 is not the start of a trend because while I enjoyed Saints Row 2 more I want to be able to play GTA again.
Actually it does diminish GTA4, because it highlights what a complete sack of shit GTA4 is by comparison. You can over-examine a simple revenge story as much as you like but it doesn't change the fact that the gameplay sucks balls compared to saints row 2.
It's stuff like this that renders me unable to take the 'SR2 is better than GTA' argument very seriously. I'm reminded of the pedantic flame wars that erupt on IGN each time a new game comes out for the 360 or the PS3, or hell even when a game comes out on both consoles... people have to bash one side in order to justify their support for the other.
I stand on my previous argument that GTA IV is a hell of a game and I can only imagine its success will continue as long as its creators want it to. SR2 can likewise continue to see success based on what it's trying to accomplish, which thankfully has evolved from what it originally was: a blatant GTA rip-off.
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
The problem is, in this discussion, "better" (as it usually is) is extremely subjective. It all comes down to what you want out of your 'gangster sandbox' game. If you want a story (at times a bit laborious and shallow though it may have been), GTAIV's got you covered. If you want to delve into the realm of the wacky and surreal, Saints Row is your game. Both games handle their respective strengths pretty well, and though I personally didn't care as much for GTAIV as I would have liked, it is what it is: a high-production, very visually polished 'experience'.
That said, I think it's no secret that people really fell in love with the GTA series (moreso with III and beyond) largely because you could steal a ferrari, run into a dozen pedestrians, jump it over a canal, crash it, get out and spray everyone around you with high velocity, steel-jacketed lead. Its absurdity was its appeal--I don't recall anyone really caring all that much about the story in any of the games in the series. So maybe that's why Rockstar decided to go the route they did with IV. Maybe they wanted it to be taken more seriously. If so, then hey, mission accomplished. But that's not what I (and I think many others) were expecting, and Saints Row came along to fill in the gap that Rockstar had left between San Andreas and IV, and frankly, I was all set to hate it for its over-the-top gangsta bullshit, but I walked away very surprised that Volition (a company I hadn't heard much about prior to SR) produced such a quality title and a genuine competitor in the genre that Rockstar helped bring to bear on consoles.
Now, having said that, as much as I enjoyed Saints Row 2 (and to get this whole thing sort of back on topic), I did have a few bones to pick with it, namely the story (spoilered):
When the first game ended, I was genuinely surprised at how much I cared about what had transpired. I wanted very much to find out who double-crossed my character and why. When I finally read that the sequel was coming, that was the main thing I was concerned about--I knew they'd add more wacky shit to do, and that's fantastic, but I wanted to know if they'd follow up on the story. And they did. Sort of.
Thing is, they turned my interpretation of the Player into some territory-grabbing jackass who seemed to exhibit the same qualities of the very gang leaders I had exterminated in the first game. Jesus, I actually sympathized more with Maro than I did the Player. While I was still a bit pissed that Carlos got fucked up by Maro's chick, I was more pissed that it was the main character who brought it on him. And at the end of the game, when the Player finally exacts his revenge on Julius, I actually almost sympathized with HIM instead, because the Player was more concerned with the fact that he wanted Stillwater to himself than the fact that Julius had double-crossed him. In short, I had expected this to be a story of revenge, and instead it was just an excuse to be a bigger jackass than the gang leaders. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
Also, and I'm probably in the minority here, but SR2 just didn't have the same "feel" as the original. The player's movement and collision with other objects just didn't feel the same. The extra fighting styles in SR2 were interesting, though I lost the ability to do the super-drunk-punch that I could with the Milkbones code in the first game. Also, the talk radio station was gone, which was a big disappointment for me. I really enjoyed the Mike and David show in the original game.
With all that said, I still enjoy SR2 a great deal more than I did GTA IV, and I look forward to the third Saints Row installment. And I hope that Volition decides to add more DLC for SR2 in the interim, because it is a very good game.
Halfmex, I agree with you on the main character, I mentioned this in this thread or an earlier one but he is an irredeemable asshole. I wanted him to ally with Mero, Mero didnt seem that bad just was pushed by a guy whos been in a coma for 2 years to give up half his power without reason.
And Julius didn't deserve his fate either, he was trying to do good and save lives.
Playing SR2 and GTA4 back to back, the only thing I hope to see change is that SR3 cribs a bit from GTA4's driving and makes the physics a little meatier. Driving around in SR2 is fast, but it just felt a bit simplistic and flimsy. It doesn't have to become "sim" driving, but something in the vein of current Need for Speed games' approach would work really well in an urban-mayhem-sandbox type setting.
Saint's Row could definately benefit from some better physics, to be sure... the cars don't really feel like they have any weight to them. No momentum. It did diminish the experience a bit for me as well in that regard.
About the main character, I agree that he (or she, as the case may be) did come off as a total, unmitigated asshole, and the game basically took the stance that the 'thug life' was the best life; if only we allowed our cities to be ruled from the streets, everything would be fair and justice would always be served.
But it didn't bother me, because the story wasn't one I took seriously at all. Instead, I merely enjoyed the game as my character revelled in the carnage he created. Yeah, he was kinda sad when someone affiliated with his gang died, but he made sure that payback was made in full and then some... and then moved on to the next stage of conquest.
It's not a bad way to be, for a video game character.
The other thing is, SA has massive clothing/customisation options over GTA4 and yet they load and work FAST. No scrolling through every item with fade outs and posing, its just done, you exit and you continue, the level of polish in seamless gameplay is vastly above GTa4.
That was certainly a disappointment I had with GTA IV: The utter lack of clothing options for Niko. Rockstar explained that they had a vision for the character, what he would wear and that sorta stuff, but after San Andreas, I was really put-off by having those options taken away from me. This also held true for vehicles... I really missed being able to customize my ride in GTA.
When it comes to customization, SR definately has it all over GTA, no question. There was also the speed of loading, but that was more due to inferior graphics quality. Not saying SR2's graphics were bad, but they didn't push it to the extremes GTA did... which might have actually been a good thing when it comes to keeping the game moving.
In GTA4 they really fucked up the driving. Most of the cars are 10X more laborious to drive than even the most extreme of realistic racing simulators, and yet the actual driving is completely unrealistic. It doesn't work. At all. Its arcade-like qualities fail, and its sim-like qualities fail. It's the worst of both. You have to slow down to 5 miles per hour to take a turn in even the most light and agile of cars, but then when you try to turn, the turn radius is still too large and you wind up swerving out into oncoming traffic. Fucking. Fail.
And then they make you re-drive to a fucking place whenever you fail a mission. Great.
I really liked the Niko character, and after fighting through shitty driving segments and mediocre mission gameplay, the cutscenes would usually give me a good chuckle, but I couldn't fucking be bothered to keep doing it.
They also ruined the other most important aspect of a GTA game: starting as much shit as possible and trying to get away with it. Cops spawn behind you instantaneously. There's no sense that they have to come to you when you are blowing shit up. They're just there all of a sudden. Turn around to shoot them and then there are more behind you.
All that being said, I am REALLY skeptical about this game. It looks ugly and the gameplay looks awkward. I guess I will try it out, though.
Are you talking about Sainrs Row 2 at the end? I dont think its ugly at all. Its not hyper realistic, it uses brighter colours and more freeform art styles but its not ugly at all and the gameplay is fun. Driving and vehicle control is pretty arcadey, shooting is good as is the precision aiming and all the customisation is very impressive. You can equip everything down to rings and bracelets and they all are added in a second and youre back on the road running around with these things being rendered properly throughout the game. No hard cutscenes that feature a default character, just your guy, tearing shit up.
The only negative is the boat yard which is worthless, I never used boats and the random safehouses likei in the lighthouse.
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I have to say, I'm really glad I did. The game wasn't deep, the storyline was pretty thin, but holy shit it was fun to play. Lots of crazy stuff to do and the gun battles were insane. Driving was pretty terrible after playing GTA IV, as the cars seem to have no 'weight' at all, but this was not something that kept me from enjoying the hell out of all the carnage.
Also, I am a whore for being able to customize my rides, and this is something that SR2 does extremely well. I was so disappointed when GTA took away this ability entirely, as I get absolutely giddy when I roll out of the garage in my new souped-up sex machine.
Also, they could have seriously made a whole game out of Fuzz, that was so much hilarious fun.
UV, you know I normally disagree with you but this time I have to super-duper disagree with you. GTA4 is the most boring, linear sand-box game I've ever played and the only GTa I ever traded and within a month to, it took away all the fun and customisation for a shitty story with a shitty character in a brown, empty world filled with few interiors that are all the same.
SR2 has it beat in every possible way. It might not be all fancy-shmancy in the graphics but I'll take a graphical hit for gameplay every time.
I don't love the driving in Saint's Row, but at least it's easy. I also like that there aren't as many tedious missions--lots of huge ass gunbattles or on-rails style shooting so far. The customization is really, really awesome though, probably one of my favorite parts of the game. My female main character is a mean, smarmy looking bitch and it's awesome.
Saints Row 2 has a story to tell and in some ways it offends even me which is an achievement, but its willing to let you do what ever you want and dress/look however you want because its more important you do what you want than what the makers want.
I just don't play games like this for the story, and even if I did, GTA IV's story just wasn't special enough to convince me to slog through the more annoying parts of the gameplay. I mean, seriously, I didn't enjoy any of the first missions you do in that game because they're "working you up" to the more interesting stuff. They don't really do that in SR2, and there are a lot less "chase" missions.
Not to mention they actually use goddamn checkpoints which is something GTA IV needed really fucking badly.
The driving in GTA IV was a bit tricky, but again I can't understand someone giving up on the whole game because of that. It took a little practice, but even I, not a 'pro' gamer by any means, was able to race around town at break-neck speeds once I figured out how the physics worked.
That being said, Saint's Row II was hands-down the winner when it comes to customization and pure, unadulterated mad fun. My first character was a big, muscular aussie dude (the accent sounded aussie at least) and is probably one of the coolest protagonists I've ever played. Few times in my gaming history have I loved hearing my own character talk so much.
The second character I made truly demonstrates the whackiness of this game: I took a male body and shifted the 'body type' until I got bewbs, then made it fairly muscular and gave it the female hispanic accent. I guess technically my char was a shemale, but 'she' was such a badass and I had a blast all over again.
I had crazy good times with both of these. I feel sorry for those who didn't like one or the other, because these are two excellent and superfun games.
I don't doubt that the story isn't terrible---it just wasn't good enough for me to try and play through gameplay I didn't like that much (which I admit to having done in RPG's a time or two).
the two games stood on the same crossroads (GTASA) and took opposing paths. GTA4 is more realistic and puts a greater emphasis on storytelling over freedom, while SR2 is more insane stuff to be done and focuses on player freedom and choice.
I had lots of fun with both.
People found many of the 'chase' sequences extremely difficult because they didn't understand that they were scripted. I hated this about the chases, especially since the game didn't give any hints that they were, but the simple knowledge that most every chase in the game is scripted helps to make them so much easier.
For example, that motorcycle chase. It's mainly scripted... there is the possibility that you'll kill the guy towards the end of the chase, but most likely you're going to just waste ammo and wipe out trying to get close enough... so the best bet is to just hang back and let him get to the end of his ride, where you can kill him and all his friends. It also helps to do this in a car, because though the game tells you to hop on a bike, you absolutely don't have to.
I was really glad that there weren't a bunch of chase missions in SR2 though, that's for sure. Those that did exist were mostly pretty easy because the driving in this game is so simple, there was no scripting keeping me from killing a bitch, and the submachine guns could really tear a vehicle up nicely.
The only issues I ever had chasing someone was that crazed postal worker in the Fuzz missions. Fuck that guy.
Sounds awesomely fun.
http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/saints-row-2-ultor-exposed
I'm interested to know how much content it's actually going to be though. I really like SR2 but I'm wary about DLC in general. Though the mission meta-game sounds pretty nice.
I too wonder how much they can really add to the game, but I guess an additional story with some more missions might be cool. After all, SR2 is trying to outdo GTA IV, so they'll definately want their DLC to compete with L&D right? Right!?
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I think, if anything, they're going another path. Apparently the bonus content (the story with Tera Patrick) is about two hours long. Plus the new co-op mode which could add some replayability to the game.
And then you have the extra weapons, costumes, and vehicles, which is honestly what I'm more excited about. Because that's where SR2 really shines, in the customization and the "doing crazy shit" category.
Saint's Row, however, recognizes and rewards ludicrous behavior. They took the bare fact of every player trying to surf on cars and turned it into a genuine game mechanic. There's a sidequest where you literally spray shit at people with a sewage treatment truck. My character currently runs around the city committing crimes in a deep sea diving suit. It's childish lunacy and the whole thing was great.
Why is it so bloody hard for the rest of the world to tell the difference between Australians and the English?
Fuck yes.
I don't entirely agree with this. GTA IV was tons of fun because it had a pretty solid, emotional storyline that was very gritty and dark. I can understand why some wouldn't like that, not a problem. But the game still had tons of crazy ways to kill people, and the physics really made it amazing. When I hit someone with my car, I could see how much it hurt them by the way they fell.
SR2 is just over-the-top and crazy, which is not a bad thing... it's very different from the path Rockstar took, which is great. I do love the crazy shit the game lets you do, and especially I love the customization of both my car and my character, things I sorely missed in GTA. Still, as funny as driving around literally spraying shit over everything sounds, it's really one of the most boring minigames I have played in a long time. Some of the other activities were way more fun, such as Mayhem, Fuzz, and that one where you drive around while on fire.
Basically, both games were great overall and fill different needs I have in gameplay... which is awesome that they both exist. I'd definately not want either series to go away.
Lack of exposure? I mean, could you tell the difference between someone from Texas or from Georgia?
I dunno, he said 'mate' and I figured Australian.
I agree!
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GTA4 is doing something wrong because I'm a rabit GTA fan and I hated it. Honestly I don't think the storyline was good or impressive at all, I'm not sure where people get this from. Its bare bones at best, Niko wants one guy so he works with one guy, then the next, then the next, lamenting on how he keeps working for bad people and doing bad things. Instead of innovating they just bought the best tech they could and then decided to remove features while implementing probably the most hated feature from GTA:San Andreas into every facet of gameplay.
There are many layers to the GTA story that go beyond his search for revenge: Family, loyalty, betrayal, loneliness... I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and tell you that you somehow failed if you didn't like the story, but at the same time, the story isn't bad because you didn't like it. The main flaw with the story of GTA IV is that Rockstar hasn't really changed the way they tell a story since GTA III... you go from mission to mission, learning things through cutscenes in a linear progression.
The story also tends to drag midway just because Rockstar tries to artificially lengthen the game; it's not terrible in my mind, because I love the different missions and meeting all sorts've whacky characters, but it could be done better. I personally would love if they could figure out a way to blur the 'on mission' and 'off mission' playtimes, so it's not such a distinct difference. Or at the very least, having fewer missions but making them longer with checkpoints and mini-goals would probably help to keep the story more cohesive.
I guess that's sort've off-topic as this is the Saint's Row 2 thread and all, but oh well. It's pretty tough to talk about SR without bringing up GTA, since the former has stolen so blatantly from the latter, particularly in the first Saint's Row. As I said above though, SR2 did go in a completely different direction from GTA IV in terms of over-the-top whackiness and sheer bombastic stunts, and I'm glad that many people like it. Its success does not diminish GTA's greatness though... they are two slices from a very delicious pie.
No, he doesn't tilt almost 90 degrees when he turns a corner and hes not rendered as well graphically but the game does everything better. Things i can do in missions I can do outside them as well and there are more unique interiors in SA than there are in GTA4 which was promised in spades to compensate for the shrinking land size.
Rockstar played the interviewers or the interviewers played us but GTA4 didn't live up to expectations and while we can't argue with its sales, its not like there are only a minority who don't like it. I had to force myself to finish it and I've played some bad games in my time but I've never had to force myself to finish it up just to say its done, completed and over. I honestly, truly hope GTA4 is not the start of a trend because while I enjoyed Saints Row 2 more I want to be able to play GTA again.
It's stuff like this that renders me unable to take the 'SR2 is better than GTA' argument very seriously. I'm reminded of the pedantic flame wars that erupt on IGN each time a new game comes out for the 360 or the PS3, or hell even when a game comes out on both consoles... people have to bash one side in order to justify their support for the other.
I stand on my previous argument that GTA IV is a hell of a game and I can only imagine its success will continue as long as its creators want it to. SR2 can likewise continue to see success based on what it's trying to accomplish, which thankfully has evolved from what it originally was: a blatant GTA rip-off.
That said, I think it's no secret that people really fell in love with the GTA series (moreso with III and beyond) largely because you could steal a ferrari, run into a dozen pedestrians, jump it over a canal, crash it, get out and spray everyone around you with high velocity, steel-jacketed lead. Its absurdity was its appeal--I don't recall anyone really caring all that much about the story in any of the games in the series. So maybe that's why Rockstar decided to go the route they did with IV. Maybe they wanted it to be taken more seriously. If so, then hey, mission accomplished. But that's not what I (and I think many others) were expecting, and Saints Row came along to fill in the gap that Rockstar had left between San Andreas and IV, and frankly, I was all set to hate it for its over-the-top gangsta bullshit, but I walked away very surprised that Volition (a company I hadn't heard much about prior to SR) produced such a quality title and a genuine competitor in the genre that Rockstar helped bring to bear on consoles.
Now, having said that, as much as I enjoyed Saints Row 2 (and to get this whole thing sort of back on topic), I did have a few bones to pick with it, namely the story (spoilered):
Thing is, they turned my interpretation of the Player into some territory-grabbing jackass who seemed to exhibit the same qualities of the very gang leaders I had exterminated in the first game. Jesus, I actually sympathized more with Maro than I did the Player. While I was still a bit pissed that Carlos got fucked up by Maro's chick, I was more pissed that it was the main character who brought it on him. And at the end of the game, when the Player finally exacts his revenge on Julius, I actually almost sympathized with HIM instead, because the Player was more concerned with the fact that he wanted Stillwater to himself than the fact that Julius had double-crossed him. In short, I had expected this to be a story of revenge, and instead it was just an excuse to be a bigger jackass than the gang leaders. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
Also, and I'm probably in the minority here, but SR2 just didn't have the same "feel" as the original. The player's movement and collision with other objects just didn't feel the same. The extra fighting styles in SR2 were interesting, though I lost the ability to do the super-drunk-punch that I could with the Milkbones code in the first game. Also, the talk radio station was gone, which was a big disappointment for me. I really enjoyed the Mike and David show in the original game.
With all that said, I still enjoy SR2 a great deal more than I did GTA IV, and I look forward to the third Saints Row installment. And I hope that Volition decides to add more DLC for SR2 in the interim, because it is a very good game.
Halfmex, I agree with you on the main character, I mentioned this in this thread or an earlier one but he is an irredeemable asshole. I wanted him to ally with Mero, Mero didnt seem that bad just was pushed by a guy whos been in a coma for 2 years to give up half his power without reason.
And Julius didn't deserve his fate either, he was trying to do good and save lives.
About the main character, I agree that he (or she, as the case may be) did come off as a total, unmitigated asshole, and the game basically took the stance that the 'thug life' was the best life; if only we allowed our cities to be ruled from the streets, everything would be fair and justice would always be served.
But it didn't bother me, because the story wasn't one I took seriously at all. Instead, I merely enjoyed the game as my character revelled in the carnage he created. Yeah, he was kinda sad when someone affiliated with his gang died, but he made sure that payback was made in full and then some... and then moved on to the next stage of conquest.
It's not a bad way to be, for a video game character.
When it comes to customization, SR definately has it all over GTA, no question. There was also the speed of loading, but that was more due to inferior graphics quality. Not saying SR2's graphics were bad, but they didn't push it to the extremes GTA did... which might have actually been a good thing when it comes to keeping the game moving.
And then they make you re-drive to a fucking place whenever you fail a mission. Great.
I really liked the Niko character, and after fighting through shitty driving segments and mediocre mission gameplay, the cutscenes would usually give me a good chuckle, but I couldn't fucking be bothered to keep doing it.
They also ruined the other most important aspect of a GTA game: starting as much shit as possible and trying to get away with it. Cops spawn behind you instantaneously. There's no sense that they have to come to you when you are blowing shit up. They're just there all of a sudden. Turn around to shoot them and then there are more behind you.
All that being said, I am REALLY skeptical about this game. It looks ugly and the gameplay looks awkward. I guess I will try it out, though.
The only negative is the boat yard which is worthless, I never used boats and the random safehouses likei in the lighthouse.