As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

ANOTHER school shooting in Finland

DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
edited September 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7630969.stm
'Nine dead' in Finland shooting

An estimated 200 students were in the college at the time of the attack


At least nine people have been killed and several others seriously wounded in a shooting spree at a vocational college in Finland, local reports say.

Police said the gunman, thought to be a 20-year-old student, then shot himself although his condition is now unclear.

He was carrying an automatic weapon and wearing a ski mask when he entered the college in Kauhajoki, reports said.

In 2007 eight people died in another school attack. Finland has one of the world's highest gun ownership rates.

In last year's incident, the gunman, Pekka-Eric Auvinen, posted a video on YouTube as a macabre preview of his attack, pledging to "eliminate" those he saw as "unfit".

Ski mask

Tuesday's shootings in Kauhajoki, some 330km (205 miles) north of the capital, Helsinki, began just before 1100 local time (0800 GMT).

An estimated 200 students were thought to be in the college buildings at the time.


A BBC correspondent in Finland said a gunman dressed in black was seen at the school, apparently carrying an automatic weapon.

A man with a ski mask was seen entering the building with a large bag, national broadcaster YLE reported. Shots were fired soon afterwards, and reports emerged that several people were seriously wounded.

At least one injured girl was seen leaving the school covered in blood, our correspondent says, while police said some of the injured were taken away from the scene and treated nearby.

Police ordered an evacuation and called for reinforcements, as local reports said the country's heavy weapons squad was heading to Kauhajoki.

The gunman remained at large within the college grounds for some time before police apparently restrained and disarmed him.

"I just heard from the police radio that the shooter has been caught. He no longer has a gun," a police spokesman told the AFP news agency.

But hospital sources and the mayor of the town were later quoted as saying the attacker had turned his gun on himself. There was no confirmation of his condition.

In the wake of the 2007 attack, Finland's government pledged to raise the minimum age for buying guns after Auvinen's attack. But the country has a long tradition of hunting and weapons-bearing, with about 1.6 million firearms in private hands, the Associated Press reports.

Nine people dead, at a college.

Seriously...this is starting freak me out a bit.

DarkCrawler on
«1

Posts

  • Options
    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Yet more evidence that American gun laws are...

    wait, Finland?

    Finland Finland Finland, the place I'd quite like to be?

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • Options
    Peter EbelPeter Ebel CopenhagenRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think gun laws are pretty lax in Finland as well.

    Peter Ebel on
    Fuck off and die.
  • Options
    XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Finland has at least as much gun ownership as America.
    Whether this thread should be about that is, well, another matter entirely.

    (If it does, I'm advocating the Swiss system again)

    Xagarath on
  • Options
    KenderiKenderi Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Long time reader of Penny Arcade, but first time writer. So the situation here in Finland is quite mixed up, our high school was evacuated because of bomb threats to schools. Our school is around 50 kilometers away from the place where it happened. Also my moms friends daughter who was in the class at the time of shooting is missing and theres nothing to be heard of her so we're suspecting that she might be dead :|

    Quite messed up to be honest people, hope this doesn't lower the bar for another school shootings here. Also feels like the shootings are just coming closer and closer, hope it won't be our school next.

    Kenderi on
  • Options
    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    what exactly do you mean by 'another' in all caps? Mass shootings aren't exactly unheard of anywhere anymore.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • Options
    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    what exactly do you mean by 'another' in all caps? Mass shootings aren't exactly unheard of anywhere anymore.

    At schools? I thought we Americans cornered the market at that.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Options
    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    what exactly do you mean by 'another' in all caps? Mass shootings aren't exactly unheard of anywhere anymore.

    At schools? I thought we Americans cornered the market at that.

    You're definitely in the lead on overall numbers, but I don't know about rates, so I'm refraining from 'X country are worse for it' style arguments. I'm just trying to figure out when massacres got so much more common in the nordic nations that we needed a thread title that comes across as exasperated.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • Options
    KenderiKenderi Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Well it was most likely because Jokela incident was just 1 year ago, wich was pretty much the first school shooting here in Finland.

    Kenderi on
  • Options
    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    what exactly do you mean by 'another' in all caps? Mass shootings aren't exactly unheard of anywhere anymore.

    At schools? I thought we Americans cornered the market at that.

    You're definitely in the lead on overall numbers, but I don't know about rates, so I'm refraining from 'X country are worse for it' style arguments. I'm just trying to figure out when massacres got so much more common in the nordic nations that we needed a thread title that comes across as exasperated.

    Americans NEVER heard about school shootings in other countries, and now there have been two within a year in one country? This is like big news for us.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Options
    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    what exactly do you mean by 'another' in all caps? Mass shootings aren't exactly unheard of anywhere anymore.

    At schools? I thought we Americans cornered the market at that.

    You're definitely in the lead on overall numbers, but I don't know about rates, so I'm refraining from 'X country are worse for it' style arguments. I'm just trying to figure out when massacres got so much more common in the nordic nations that we needed a thread title that comes across as exasperated.

    Americans NEVER heard about school shootings in other countries, and now there have been two within a year in one country? This is like big news for us.

    Ok, but the news is actually "your media are incredibly insular and really really don't pay much attention to stuff going on in other countries unless there's explosions and gunfire involved, or sex".

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • Options
    acronomiconacronomicon Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    what exactly do you mean by 'another' in all caps? Mass shootings aren't exactly unheard of anywhere anymore.

    At schools? I thought we Americans cornered the market at that.

    You're definitely in the lead on overall numbers, but I don't know about rates, so I'm refraining from 'X country are worse for it' style arguments. I'm just trying to figure out when massacres got so much more common in the nordic nations that we needed a thread title that comes across as exasperated.

    Americans NEVER heard about school shootings in other countries, and now there have been two within a year in one country? This is like big news for us.

    Sure we did. Shootings in Scotland, Australia, Finland and Israel all made national news.

    acronomicon on
    32340.jpg
  • Options
    RitchmeisterRitchmeister Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Scotland one must have been about 15 years ago... because Dunblane is the only one I can think of.

    So I would certainly say this is big news as two school shootings within a year in a developed country strikes me as pretty rare.

    Ritchmeister on
  • Options
    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sure we did. Shootings in Scotland, Australia, Finland and Israel all made national news.

    If they did I haven't heard of them.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Options
    QliphothQliphoth Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    Sure we did. Shootings in Scotland, Australia, Finland and Israel all made national news.

    If they did I haven't heard of them.

    the australian one he's most likely referring to was in '96, the scottish one even further back so thats not really surprising.

    Qliphoth on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Qliphoth wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    Sure we did. Shootings in Scotland, Australia, Finland and Israel all made national news.

    If they did I haven't heard of them.

    the australian one he's most likely referring to was in '96, the scottish one even further back so thats not really surprising.

    Okay I'm talking the last 10 years when the 'school shooting' thing just seemed to explode into all media outlets.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Options
    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    The Australian one wasn't a school shooting, either. But yeah, the newsmedia eat this shit up because of the rubbernecker aspect and how it gets them ratings. Its very sad, but I suspect that the degree of coverage is perpetuating the problem.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • Options
    acronomiconacronomicon Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    The Australian one wasn't a school shooting, either. But yeah, the newsmedia eat this shit up because of the rubbernecker aspect and how it gets them ratings. Its very sad, but I suspect that the degree of coverage is perpetuating the problem.

    Monash University isn't a school?

    acronomicon on
    32340.jpg
  • Options
    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    The Australian one wasn't a school shooting, either. But yeah, the newsmedia eat this shit up because of the rubbernecker aspect and how it gets them ratings. Its very sad, but I suspect that the degree of coverage is perpetuating the problem.

    Monash University isn't a school?
    I believe Cat was referring to Port Arthur.

    Fencingsax on
  • Options
    QliphothQliphoth Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    The Australian one wasn't a school shooting, either. But yeah, the newsmedia eat this shit up because of the rubbernecker aspect and how it gets them ratings. Its very sad, but I suspect that the degree of coverage is perpetuating the problem.

    Monash University isn't a school?

    the one we were discussing was port arthur. Only 2 people died at monash university, I wouldn't have thought that would've got US media attention.

    edit: beaten

    Qliphoth on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    Ok, but the news is actually "your media are incredibly insular and really really don't pay much attention to stuff going on in other countries unless there's explosions and gunfire involved, or sex".

    I don't think that qualifies as news, Cat. Nobody's gotten naked.

    To be honest, I'm surprised there aren't more school shootings. School (especially high school and college) is the source of greatest stress for most people. They're filled with tired, overworked, stressed students who have to deal with failures (whether academic, athletic, social or otherwise). Add that to the fact that young people haven't always developed their mental capabilities for long-term planning or awareness of consequences.

    That said, though, good luck to those affected in Finland.

    GoodOmens on
    steam_sig.png
    IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
  • Options
    arod_77arod_77 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    Forgetting the histrionics--what does this mean though exactly?

    Another?

    Yes another as in exactly one more.



    Finns have just as much access as Americans to guns if not more I would say--so sociologically might you say that the phenomenon of school shootings is spreading because of some sort of international awakening to the concept among disenchanted youth, and not some new gun ownership statistic?

    arod_77 on
    glitteratsigcopy.jpg
  • Options
    KenderiKenderi Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    You can't really compare Finnish gun owning laws to American counterparts because in Finland you have to be part of hunting society and have passed a hunting exam in order to obtain a gun. And we don't sell automatic weapons here easily, the act was done on small hand gun 22-caliber Walther P22.

    Kenderi on
  • Options
    arod_77arod_77 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    Kenderi wrote: »
    You can't really compare Finnish gun owning laws to American counterparts because in Finland you have to be part of hunting society and have passed a hunting exam in order to obtain a gun. And we don't sell automatic weapons here easily, the act was done on small hand gun 22-caliber Walther P22.

    Okay yes and those are good measures but how do they prevent an incident like this? Should our focus be on preventing a once in a lifetime incident?

    I think the focus of gun control statistics needs to be on crime of the more usual nature. People with a death wish are hard to beat.

    arod_77 on
    glitteratsigcopy.jpg
  • Options
    zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    GoodOmens wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Ok, but the news is actually "your media are incredibly insular and really really don't pay much attention to stuff going on in other countries unless there's explosions and gunfire involved, or sex".

    I don't think that qualifies as news, Cat. Nobody's gotten naked.

    To be honest, I'm surprised there aren't more school shootings. School (especially high school and college) is the source of greatest stress for most people. They're filled with tired, overworked, stressed students who have to deal with failures (whether academic, athletic, social or otherwise). Add that to the fact that young people haven't always developed their mental capabilities for long-term planning or awareness of consequences.

    That said, though, good luck to those affected in Finland.

    I'm sorry, but ...WHAT? You're surprised that children and youth don't go on shooting sprees more often, because, that's like a totally expected way to deal with stress? Or because "underdeveloped mental capabilities" mean you're unable to realize the effects of killing a bunch of dudes? Would you please elaborate why the FUCK would you be surprised because there is a total logical black hole between "stress & not mature enough" to "I'm in so much pain I'll kill a bunch of dudes and shoot myself in the head".
    Also yeah, the another in the title implied frequency and I didn't care for it either. As far as I know, such an event is yet to happen in 95% of European countries.
    Okay yes and those are good measures but how do they prevent an incident like this? Should our focus be on preventing a once in a lifetime incident?

    To the first question, my answer is: you don't.
    To the second: No, unless there are towers involved, it seems.

    zeeny on
  • Options
    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    The school shooting in Scotland was perpetrated by a grown man, not a pupil, incidentally. A scout master or assistant scout master or something. And it was also a primary school, not a secondary school.

    I mean, school shooters are dicks. But man, what a total fucking dick that guy was.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • Options
    DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The shooter is still alive, by the way, (man, how PATHETIC you have to be when you screw up a suicide to head?), and I hope he survives to face what he has done...as a horrible disfigured monster who nobody can love, locked behind bars for eternity.

    DarkCrawler on
  • Options
    MrRezisterMrRezister Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    zeeny wrote: »
    To the second: No, unless there are towers involved, it seems.

    Did you mean to say "towers AND about 3000 dead civilians"? Because I think that's something to get excited about, but I might be an outlier. Also, those particular towers were attacked twice in my lifetime, so .... yeah.

    With regard to school shootings, it seems like a healthy dose of supervision would make for an adequate deterrent. Not necessarily "state supervision" in the form of "oh yeah, well then we'll just take all your damn guns away!", but more like parental supervision in the form of keeping guns out of the hands of kids, even Finnish ones.
    The shooter is still alive, by the way, (man, how PATHETIC you have to be when you screw up a suicide to head?), and I hope he survives to face what he has done...as a horrible disfigured monster who nobody can love, locked behind bars for eternity.

    Also, that.

    MrRezister on
  • Options
    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The school shooting in Scotland was perpetrated by a grown man, not a pupil, incidentally. A scout master or assistant scout master or something. And it was also a primary school, not a secondary school.

    "school shooting" to most people means pupil(s) shooting other pupils, so that's important to bear in mind, yeah. I can't think of a school shooting in that vein ever having taken place in the UK. So yes, it is right to say "another" in the thread title - they're rare.

    Æthelred on
    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • Options
    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    Doesn't the UK have ridiculously strict gun laws, so they wind up with stabbings instead?

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if someone wants to do something bad, they'll find a way to do it.

    JustinSane07 on
  • Options
    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Doesn't the UK have ridiculously strict gun laws, so they wind up with stabbings instead?

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if someone wants to do something bad, they'll find a way to do it.

    No, the UK has very reasonable and sensible gun laws.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • Options
    RitchmeisterRitchmeister Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    And while we have stabbings we don't have nutjobs running through their schools stabbing people at random.

    Ritchmeister on
  • Options
    DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Okay, the shooter just died. Fuck.

    DarkCrawler on
  • Options
    GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    GoodOmens wrote: »
    I don't think that qualifies as news, Cat. Nobody's gotten naked.
    Really? *looks down* :winky:

    GungHo on
  • Options
    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    And while we have stabbings we don't have nutjobs running through their schools stabbing people at random.

    I thought random stabbings, while maybe not at schools, was a huge problem for the whole country right now?

    JustinSane07 on
  • Options
    MrRezisterMrRezister Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sure, but as long as they aren't happening at schools it isn't really worth mentioning.

    MrRezister on
  • Options
    RitchmeisterRitchmeister Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    No, random stabbings are not a problem throughout the country right now.

    The problem is gangs of youths fighting each other and pulling knives, not just stabbing people at random.

    And considering this thread is specifically about violence at schools then no it wouldn't be worth mentioning anyway.

    Ritchmeister on
  • Options
    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Kenderi wrote: »
    You can't really compare Finnish gun owning laws to American counterparts because in Finland you have to be part of hunting society and have passed a hunting exam in order to obtain a gun. And we don't sell automatic weapons here easily, the act was done on small hand gun 22-caliber Walther P22.

    So how did he get the gun, then, if they aren't sold easily? Or are you talking about fully automatic weapons not being easy to get...because those are (more or less) illegal here (the US) too.

    The Walther P22 is a semi-automatic handgun, and is in fact (IIRC) banned in California under their pseudo-state-AWB (I think it's just the threaded barrel, though).

    EDIT: The only countries I know of where "automatic" (as in, fully automatic) weapons are "sold easily" are war-torn shitholes...and even in a lot of those, they're not legal they're just sold everywhere anyway. And mostly it's just AK-47s specifically.

    EDIT: Thought so...the Walther P22 is actually one of the same guns used at the recent Virginia Tech shooting.

    mcdermott on
  • Options
    juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    zeeny wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but ...WHAT? You're surprised that children and youth don't go on shooting sprees more often, because, that's like a totally expected way to deal with stress? Or because "underdeveloped mental capabilities" mean you're unable to realize the effects of killing a bunch of dudes? Would you please elaborate why the FUCK would you be surprised because there is a total logical black hole between "stress & not mature enough" to "I'm in so much pain I'll kill a bunch of dudes and shoot myself in the head".

    How is that a controversial observation? Teens kill each other all the time. They just happen to be brown-skinned and in a gang so it doesn't make the news.

    juice for jesus on
  • Options
    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think a lot of people just long for the days when troubled kids just shot themselves, so they could be more safely ignored. This actually safely applies for many adult mass-shooters as well.

    Not to try and excuse the actions of kids that do this shit, of course. And the individual victims certainly don't deserve what happened to them. But I think it's funny that nobody really wants to look into why people do things like this...usually it seems we want to dismiss it with "they're just evil, bad people" then move on to "how the hell did they get the gun, anyway?"

    mcdermott on
  • Options
    JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    what exactly do you mean by 'another' in all caps? Mass shootings aren't exactly unheard of anywhere anymore.

    At schools? I thought we Americans cornered the market at that.

    You're definitely in the lead on overall numbers, but I don't know about rates, so I'm refraining from 'X country are worse for it' style arguments. I'm just trying to figure out when massacres got so much more common in the nordic nations that we needed a thread title that comes across as exasperated.

    School massacres are neither a new nor a uniquely American phenomena. One of the worst ever was in 1927, and there was a horrible incident where a shell-shocked WWII vet took a flamethrower to children . . . in europe. . . in the 60s.

    JohnnyCache on
Sign In or Register to comment.