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Warhammer Online: 1.01 goes live tomorrow!

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Posts

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    So, I had a bit of an epiphany just now. I came to the realization, that I am sure many others have to, that WAR could have a very serious flaw:

    What happens when the two realms on a server decide to simply play different games? It's an issue on Ulthuan right now, where Order is all about their scenario grind, and Destro is much more in to open world RvR. Perhaps at T4, with the added incentives to open RvR, it will fix itself, but I could see it being a serious issue.

    I imagine that what will happen in the long run is that they will close the scenarios occasionally and have more objectives pop up in the open RvR for that day.

    Effectively right now order picks the match, on my server at least. You just have to go where the order players are, and that means you have to queue for everything, and the only one that ever pops is Orders favourite one. I think we need something to encourage you to pick different ones. Perhaps if a single scenario is played far more, its importance could start to diminish.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I know that, right now, there are certain scenarios we don't queue for - for experience/renown purposes, they aren't efficient. Why play two games of the dam scenario when we can play three games of the lava scenario in the same time?

    jkylefulton on
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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    That's sort of the problem. Those scenarios need to be tuned so they give xp/rp roughly equivalent to the shorter ones. Khaine's Embrace had this issue in T1 because the matches stale mate too often. Great fun at times, but horribly inefficient for leveling.

    What they really need to do is add more incentive to the T1-T3 RvR lakes. Scenarios should be something people do when no major RvR is happening, but the rewards for big RvR should be great enough to encourage people to go that route first, and look at scenarios as a backup plan. Maybe the added importance of keeps in T4 will be the incentive needed to break some people out of the scenario funk.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    weren't keeps added after popular demand in WAR? I remember they didn't intend to have any open world keep warfare originally

    Maybe they still need to tinker a bit with the incentive for world RvR (I know, FUN is the major reason to do it, but you should all know what I mean)

    Zzulu on
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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    That's sort of the problem. Those scenarios need to be tuned so they give xp/rp roughly equivalent to the shorter ones. Khaine's Embrace had this issue in T1 because the matches stale mate too often. Great fun at times, but horribly inefficient for leveling.

    What they really need to do is add more incentive to the T1-T3 RvR lakes. Scenarios should be something people do when no major RvR is happening, but the rewards for big RvR should be great enough to encourage people to go that route first, and look at scenarios as a backup plan. Maybe the added importance of keeps in T4 will be the incentive needed to break some people out of the scenario funk.

    This to me is the real problem, in WAR we don't need to blast to the top tiers straight away, since there is perfectly viable and fun PvP going on right here. Why don't people pick a different match to try and have some fun? I think a key problem with open RvR is the silence in (and lack thereof) of general chat. Noone says "Lets go hunt some order!" it's just silence.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    That's because general chat is pretty obscure

    Zzulu on
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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    They need to adjust the behavior of mobs in keeps.

    On the one hand, I guess it's good that the Keep Lord doesn't wade into battle downstairs against the 50 players trying to get at him, but on the other him running downstairs to one-shot people, taking tons of damage, then retreating and going back to full health is retarded.

    Also I've seen certain Order groups in Ulthuan try to stand in a position that makes the KL take damage without going to attack the player.

    Also the keeps need a better fucking layout.

    Malkor on
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  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    We were getting 9k renown (plus the chance at keep lord loot) for every keep we were taking, 400 renown for every battlefield objective. The difference was, you get zero experience.

    And no, there's no chance keeps were added as an afterthought. Keep taking was the defining aspect of DAoC.

    jkylefulton on
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  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Daoc is not war

    I distinctly remember keeps being added in open world RVR after popular demand (Uproar from old DAOC players)

    I think everything used to be instanced before

    Zzulu on
    t5qfc9.jpg
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The moment I start thinking "I won't play the other two scenarios cause this scenario gives me more exp/renown per hour" I will uninstall the game and never look back because I just took out the "fun" element and made a "math game" out of it.

    I never liked math games.

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Klyka wrote: »
    The moment I start thinking "I won't play the other two scenarios cause this scenario gives me more exp/renown per hour" I will uninstall the game and never look back because I just took out the "fun" element and made a "math game" out of it.

    I never liked math games.

    Same.

    I even wear stuff for looks first and functionality second.

    Malkor on
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  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited October 2008
    keeps have always been the backbone of both DAoC and WAR. The issue you are seeing right now is that everyone is still trying to get to 40. Once a good portion of the active population hit 40 the zone and keep wars will begin.

    Unknown User on
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I think I just queue up for Tor Anroc only because it has faster queue times, also, the concept is incredibly simple, so you don't have to deal with stupid pubbies running to bomb your own spawn or abandoning all flags in favour of zerging

    Zzulu on
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  • The Rocking MThe Rocking M Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ok servers are up and whats with the foot shuffling the npcs are doing?

    The Rocking M on
  • LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    For me the fact that I queue for only Mourkain in T2 is a coincidence

    Best XP/hour it might be, but I only do it that way because A) Stonetroll is impossible to win unless the other team is clinically retarded; almost every game ends in a stalemate, and B) Phoenix Gate is capture the flag which I loathe with great fury

    Ledneh on
    Kadith wrote: »
    how do i get off [the bus], do i just start screaming
    well that'll get me off at least.
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ok servers are up and whats with the foot shuffling the npcs are doing?

    - Added NPC row dancing routines

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I hope they add a "Queue for All Scenarios" option to the window. I imagine most people would just click that and therefore we'd get more pops AND more variety.

    Accualt on
  • The Rocking MThe Rocking M Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Klyka wrote: »
    Ok servers are up and whats with the foot shuffling the npcs are doing?

    - Added NPC row dancing routines
    hmmm next time i should read the patch notes.

    The Rocking M on
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    keeps have always been the backbone of both DAoC and WAR.

    Keeps and Keep Sieges were introduced into WAR’s Realm vs Realm combat system during the Closed Beta phase of testing.

    Mythic’s old plan was, that instanced RvR will gain most points (because teams inside instances are balanced, therefore battle is somehow fair for all participants), however - after going through beta players feedback (old DAoC players *cough*), they decided MMORPG players don’t really want FPS-like pew-pew, but massive large scale WAR! Therefore, the main Victory points would be accumulated by conquering open world RvR objectives.

    So, Mythic reinvented something we all loved in DAoC - they brought back keeps

    Their original idea was a bit different from what we have today

    Zzulu on
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  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    Daoc is not war

    I distinctly remember keeps being added in open world RVR after popular demand (Uproar from old DAOC players)

    I think everything used to be instanced before

    You're wrong.

    jkylefulton on
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  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    Daoc is not war

    I distinctly remember keeps being added in open world RVR after popular demand (Uproar from old DAOC players)

    I think everything used to be instanced before

    You're wrong.

    He's only wrong about the instancing. Keeps didn't exist before. RvR also sucked. Keeps were an attempt to fix it.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    We were getting 9k renown (plus the chance at keep lord loot) for every keep we were taking, 400 renown for every battlefield objective. The difference was, you get zero experience.

    And no, there's no chance keeps were added as an afterthought. Keep taking was the defining aspect of DAoC.

    Uh, in what tier? When I took my crew out to retake some T3 keeps, we were getting 900 bonus for finishing the keep lord (with a small group, 5 people,) plus some minor periodic bonuses during the fight. I would be all over that shit if it were really 9k per keep, but as it stands, we weren't getting anywhere near that much.

    Ryokaze on
  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    900 is still nothing to scoff at.

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    Daoc is not war

    I distinctly remember keeps being added in open world RVR after popular demand (Uproar from old DAOC players)

    I think everything used to be instanced before

    You're wrong.

    8-) turns out it is you who are wrong, son

    and what I meant about instancing was that the scenarios were the big PvP thing of the game rather than keeps

    Zzulu on
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  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Maybe I misread the 900 as 9000. These old eyes aren't what they used to be.

    jkylefulton on
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  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    Zzulu wrote: »
    Daoc is not war

    I distinctly remember keeps being added in open world RVR after popular demand (Uproar from old DAOC players)

    I think everything used to be instanced before

    You're wrong.

    8-) turns out it is you who are wrong, son

    I am sometimes wrong.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • Mr ObersmithMr Obersmith Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Somewhat Off-topic, has anyone been able to get the Complete a High Elf (or variant) Scenario Tome unlock yet?

    Mr Obersmith on
    Battle.net - Obersmith#1709
    Live - MrObersmith
    PSN - Obersmith
  • grrarggrrarg Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Addons broken NOOOOOOOOOOO.

    grrarg on
    If you play a game and then are able to spend pages debating with someone on the actions of a faction within that game you probably just played a pretty sweet game.
  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    He's only wrong about the instancing. Keeps didn't exist before. RvR also sucked. Keeps were an attempt to fix it.

    Yeah, Keeps were not in the original game plan for WAR.

    Open RvR still existed, but it was all Battlefield Objectives. No big Keeps to fight over.

    Selner on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    900 is still nothing to scoff at.

    Except that when we were low renown rank, each scenario was worth ~2200, and even now that we're way above the pack, they're still well over 1100 a piece. Also, it takes an amazingly long amount of time door bashing to get through a keep with five people, maybe if you zerg it, it would be more efficient. I'm sure that's the primary reason keep warfare isn't more popular.

    I hope T4 keeps are more worthwhile to take.

    Ryokaze on
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    pretty crazy that they actually thought not adding keeps were ever a good idea

    Zzulu on
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  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    900 is still nothing to scoff at.

    Except that when we were low renown rank, each scenario was worth ~2200, and even now that we're way above the pack, they're still well over 1100 a piece. Also, it takes an amazingly long amount of time door bashing to get through a keep with five people, maybe if you zerg it, it would be more efficient. I'm sure that's the primary reason keep warfare isn't more popular.

    I hope T4 keeps are more worthwhile to take.

    Well, I imagine keep sieging is balanced for one or more full warbands to conquer, and looking at it that way, attacking a keep with 5 people isn't a very efficient way to level renown. That said, it's really freaking fun, so at least you're still getting a decent benefit for your time invested.

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    god damn, I hate the fact that you need incentive(read: carrot on a stick) to motivate other people to go out and lay seige to an area.

    tyrannus on
  • MunacraMunacra Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Their incentive should be: The other team is winning right now. fuck them.

    Munacra on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Are you telling me you can really take a keep with 5 people?

    We fought about a T2 keep for 1 1/2 hours with, I don't know, 40 people? Against 30 or so Order?

    We were happy if we ever managed to kill 2-3 Bodyguards!

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • SmashismSmashism Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Chat log lag hoo ha fixed? Biggest gripe yet.

    Smashism on
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    you need incentive because it's no fun fighting NPC mobs in keeps

    I want to fight people

    all the keep sieges I've done so far have been me in an order warband going around capping empty keeps. (until we eventually encounter a destro zerg an hour later and shortly disband after that) Sure some of this is my own fault for playing at shitty times, but still.

    with XP rewards in the zone, I bet you 5 rape dollars that we would see tons more people in the RvR zones, fighting tirelessly, because they no longer have to worry about managing leveling time versus fun-RVR-time, so to speak

    Zzulu on
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  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Well, it's probably because people consider leveling (at times) a not fun, necessary thing you have to do to get stronger, and thus they look for the easiest and most efficient way to do so.

    I'd rather just do what I'd like to do and level quickly, but it hasn't worked out for me so far.

    mynameisguido on
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  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tyrannus wrote: »
    god damn, I hate the fact that you need incentive(read: carrot on a stick) to motivate other people to go out and lay seige to an area.

    Yeah but see that's what's wrong with WoW... WoW Battlegrounds spawned this whole new idea of apathy in who's winning or losing.

    Before battlegrounds and the honor system came out, I remember going out to world PvP, just because there was horde around, and they all needed to die.

    Once the honor system came out, it turned into, who cares who's winning, it's all about who gets the most honor points the fastest. A lot of damage has been done, and I really hope that WAR can reverse some of this and make players want to go take a keep simply because the other side owns it, those bastards.

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Klyka wrote: »
    Are you telling me you can really take a keep with 5 people?

    We fought about a T2 keep for 1 1/2 hours with, I don't know, 40 people? Against 30 or so Order?

    We were happy if we ever managed to kill 2-3 Bodyguards!

    Yeah, any time there's an order claimed keep we generally head out with a few people and take it back, it's been very rare to encounter any order resistance, the RvR lakes have been just completely empty.

    Ryokaze on
This discussion has been closed.