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Lighting a candle... (D&D Prestige Classes)
DevoutlyApathetic
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Registered User regular
So I was whining in the other thread about the lack of any creative prestige classes for druids in 3.x. As a hippy one said "It's better to light a candle..." and I didn't really listen to to the rest but I'm going to assume it said "to make your own stuff up by the light of."
I'm posting drafts, more idea outlines for concepts with some back up in how I think the game mechanic dressings would go. I make no claims of these being balanced/good/worthwile, I'm hoping for creative but we'll see how far I get even in that.
You all are welcome to play along at home and even drop your own ideas in here. Constructive criticism is welcome. We all should try and avoid page long rules digressions (Sorry Litejedi.) If you think something is horrible idea, express your opinion and then let it drop or take it to PMs or another thread.
I'm going to try and keep this first post updated with links to any classes posted in the thread. I'm going to post the class outline then make another post discussing my thoughts behind it. I'd apriciate if you'd do the same, but it's not like I can do anything about it if you don't.
Now, to begin!
Reincarnate
I'm posting drafts, more idea outlines for concepts with some back up in how I think the game mechanic dressings would go. I make no claims of these being balanced/good/worthwile, I'm hoping for creative but we'll see how far I get even in that.
You all are welcome to play along at home and even drop your own ideas in here. Constructive criticism is welcome. We all should try and avoid page long rules digressions (Sorry Litejedi.) If you think something is horrible idea, express your opinion and then let it drop or take it to PMs or another thread.
I'm going to try and keep this first post updated with links to any classes posted in the thread. I'm going to post the class outline then make another post discussing my thoughts behind it. I'd apriciate if you'd do the same, but it's not like I can do anything about it if you don't.
Now, to begin!
Reincarnate
Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
DevoutlyApathetic on
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HD: D8
BAB: .5
Skills: 4
S-List: Druids give or take.
Profs: None
Requirements:
Timeless Body
Able to Cast Reincarnate
Class Abilities:
1st Spellcasting; Reincarnate Proficiency
2nd
3rd Age is in the Mind
4th
5th The Wheel Turns
Spellcasting: Advances a divine spellcasting class every level.
Reincarnate Proficiency (Su): You may increase the level at which you prepare a Reincarnate spell to heighten its’ effects. You may not increase it by more than your class level. Increasing by 1 level allows you to adjust the percentile roll by your class level up or down inclusive. 2 levels allows you to target those who have been dead for up to 6 months a class level. 3 levels allows you to raise those killed by a death effect, turned to an undead and then slain or any other effect that requires Resurrection. 4 levels allows you to ignore the requirement of having a piece of the body. You must still unambiguously identify the person to be reincarnated. 5 levels allows you or the recipient to pay 5,000 xp to ignore the level loss normally associated with death. Alternatively either may pay the xp to return to life anybody normally requiring a True Resurrection, Wish or Miracle. You may not use both of the final effects in a single casting. All uses include the effects of all lower level uses.
Age is in the Mind (Ex): Your physical age can be changed with a standard action to any point from birth to your maximum life span. You still accrue mental bonuses for age based upon your actual time experienced instead of your apparent age.
The Wheel Turns (Ex): You will ever be reborn. If you die you may instantly choose to be immediately reincarnated. Unlike normal reincarnate you go through the actual process of gestation and rebirth. With As Young as You Think You Are you could hasten this but only at the cost of your new mother’s life.
Edit: Updated version. The Wheel Turns still needs work. Old version
As Young as You Think You Are is going to be viewed as extremely powerful by some. It's not the kind of thing that raises my fancy at all with regards to power. I suppose you could combine it with access to a plane with flowing time and have a 1000 years of item creation or something under your belt.
Reincarnate Proficiency is kinda a filler ability. It reinforces that these guys are neat NPC's to know as contacts but not something in this level range I expect people to care about. Usually it'll be True Reincarnate when we're discussing 18th level and up restoratives.
The Wheel is the only serious class ability of worth and using it involves dying. Granted it's fucking awesome for an evil NPC (We need to track down a woman who had just had sex...then had her belly explode and a guy come out of it) to use but kinda cheap as well in that context.
Sprinkles: I'm thinking I'd limit this to a set number in a given campaign setting. Like 5 or 3 or even 1. It nicely evokes the 1st edition feel of druids and can lead to some fun RP moments. (I could think of plausible reasons why an ancient being could choose a final death for a younger one to take his place, at least it'd make for fun story bits.)
As the wheel turns is basically useless no one wants to wait 9 months to have their character again[if not more] not to mention the whole deal with the issue of everything else that happens once you get reborn....
"As young as you think you are": You might as well just add +3 wiz/Cha/int to the character.
Basically everyone who takes this character will dip one level for "as young as you think you are" bump themselves up to venerable with no penalty, and go back to being a druid at 16th level.
edit: i like the idea, and i like re-incarnate proficiency, but it doesnt strike me as a good PRC.
You really can't fucking read can you?
You said "your physical age can be changed"
Ok, so if you want to say that "your phyisical age can be changed, but it doesnt actualy get you anything" then what is the point of doing that instead of saying, using 1000 faces?
Now your class is pretty much entirely uselss, you give up 5 levels of wildshape for a better re-incarnate....
Goum, I'm not interested in a pathetic High School feud. If you can't understand that some people like roleplaying as well as number crunching then you have my sympathy but this thread and most things I create are probably not to your taste.
Now please go curse the darkness somewhere else.
PRC's are for crunch for the most part, it is easy to justify the concept you are getting accross with a straight druid. Why is the guy who can justify the concept you are trying to get accross with a straight druid going to take this PRC?
Im seriously trying to give you some advice here. You can ignore it if you want, but im just pointing out what anyone who looks at the class is going to think "why should I take this class?" heck, you derided me for bringing up the alienist(that was you right?) with "what druid is going to reduce his wisdom?"
Crunch is an intergral part of the game, and when talking about mechanics and PRC's its the only part of the game, talking about roleplaying is boring. You wanted to discuss and hash out druid PRC's, if you want to just post PRC's and not have any discussion on them and not have any input, dont bother putting it online.
Re: As Young as you think you are: It seems like this is a way to get around the age limit? Is it? If so, why not just say that the druid no longer dies when his time is up?
edit: Now, the idea is good, but the execution is not, so lets fix the execution.
edit: Why dont you end up giving him "Reincarnate" or "True Reincarnate" as a spell like ability useable at will or a number of times per day, that lets the druid free up spell slots.
My only concerns are that all of the abilities rely on the character dieing and, until fifth level, it relies on on your team mates reincarnating you. I think this is balanced out by the character essentially becoming immortal, and not just ageless.
Not me. I later said you were being unfair in the list you posted but that was mostly due to flavor/viability options. I've seen clerics take Alienist, but that was 3.0 where I think they were slightly less rapey to wisdom.
Yes, YaYTYA would allow you to ignore the age limit. This has some abuses if planar travel is common/safe but otherwise it's strictly flavor for a class that requires you to be immune to magical aging already.
I responded harshly because I was pretty explicit that exactly what you said wouldn't work. Really, constructive criticism if cool.
I'm really looking for crunch that nicely mirrors the flavor of the class I'm shooting for. Reincarnate (I am so horrible with names) is a quick attempt at recapturing some of the flavor that 1st edition high level druids had to put up with. Where you went from being all hot shit leader of a circle to deciding that all blew and just left. I need to include more on that but I posted it now just to get it out there, now that it's there I'll be more inclined to get myself to work on it.
Also, Here is how i read the text "Your physical age can be changed with a standard action to any point from birth to your maximum life span. You still accrue mental bonuses for age based upon your actual time experienced and not your apparent age. "
Your pysical age can be changed =you can change your age category
You still accrue mental bonuses for age based upon your actual time experienced and not your apparent age = And you also get the bonus the longer you live.
It would work better if you said "apparent age" can be changed.
Even better wording might be. "The druid no longer dies when his time is up, and any penalties accrued by his age are removed."
Since he has 1000 faces already, he doesnt have to worry about how old he wants to look.
edit: For the "reincarnate" final ability you could just make it a true-reincarnate used on himself once/month after he dies.
AYAYTYA is a step above 1000 faces for appearences, since this ability changes how old the druid actually is, whereas 1000 faces is just a physical glamor. The difference is minor (but present) for crunch, and huge for RP.
TWT as it is now has a lot more flavor than a simple ressurection spell-like ability, and the rebirth restriction is appropriate since it makes the effectively makes the character immortal. The chance that that nine months might exclude the character from the rest of the campaign is pretty minor compared to the benefit, especially for RP.
Decreasing the time that reincarnation takes to cast isn't a horrible idea, I'm not certain what he meant by the alive bit. If somebody want to change races I'd make them get knifed first. Blood sacrifices are fine druidic tradition.
The thing with AYAYTYA (God, I need to get better at names) is that it's an actual change. My intent is that true sight wouldn't see your 'normal' age. You are in fact whatever you set your age to be. This actually has alot of uses since almost everybody is going to not suspect children and only the really heartless would harm one.
With TWT I'm currently thinking I should allow them to hasten the rebirth process since they can mature as fast as they'd like. The question is 1)how quickly could the mothers body adapt and 2) how much do I care about plausability versus game balance. I'm leaning towards at least a week (er...1/36 of base gestation) to a month (1/9 of base) for the 'good' guys. With it still likely having some kind of effect on the mother.
The class does have some room for other abilities. I'd consided allowing them to be reincarnated without level loss, the ability to old style Mask of a Thousand faces and something else I can't remember right now. I think the level loss shouldn't apply to the TWT ability since I'd like it to be possible to actually kill one of these guys...just nowhere near easy.
I haven't seen True Reincarnate anywhere in 3.5, I'm rather upset about that. I might consider allowing them to cast it with the experience cost being paid by the recipiant of the spell instead of the caster (Your Debt is Your own.) Since with converting gold to xp it should run in the 5k range, that's signifigant.
Thanks for your thought, both of you. Hmmm.....
EDIT: What is this Singer of Dawn business from the Quintessential Bard? Comments? I'm going to Google it in a sec, just wondering if anyone had heard anything good or bad.
There are not really any good bardy Bard PRC's, virtuoso is pretty weak.
I havent seen the Quintessential Bard or whatever the new rogue/Bard book coming out is though, so i cant really comment on that.
Seeker of the Song is a pretty powerful PRC, it focuses on direct elemental damage, and lots of direct elemental damage as well as hampering enemy spellcasters[Hymn of spelldeath] and other bards [dirge of songdeath], as is one whose name I forgot that you cant enter until 10th level starts at 5th level spells and goes up until 9th level spells. Sublime Chord is the name of that one. It turns the bard into a pretty darn awesome primary caster. A primary caster who also has three bardic music abilities, one boosts your caster level [up to +4] as a move action based on your bardic music check. One is a rudimentary hold person with a will DC = your bardic music check, and one is an AoE damage spell [100 ft radius] which does damage equal to the bards perform check.
Seekers of the Song burn through a LOT of bardic music uses. Sublims Chords are pretty darn awesome, but dont advance the bardic abilities as well.
I havent seen it, but supposedly Monte Cooks alternate bard is supposedly pretty cool [I hear they get disentegrate and its called "Destroy Utterly With Song"]
IRT: AYAYTYA. If you want to do that, just have AYAYTYA change the type of 1000 faces to exceptional and not supernatural. Then its no longer an illusion and true seeing no longer sees through it.
I actually wrote a p-class for one of the RPGA campaigns (Living Arcanis) for bards that focuses on spellcasting and bard song while excluding martial and lore abilities. It does stuff like using bard song uses for casting spells, singing for SR, singing to counterspell, and so on.
If you're interested, I can PM you the details.
Those are both cool prestige classes, but Sublime Chord doesn't really work if you want to stay a bard. It's like, "We've got this great prestige class for bards who are sick of being bards!" There was something about Seeker of the Song that I didn't like, but I can't for the life of me remember what. Do you have a link to the stats, because I can't find them anywhere.
Kari: PM away!
I had a lot of fun as a dirgesinger from Libris Mortis if you need a bardy evil class. Bard just goes so right with pets.
You're going to make me pull out the Blackclad (IKCG), aren't you?
One of my players was looking through the book, saw it, and went, "Holy shit. That's what I want to play."
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
If that's directed towards me, technically that p-class is in a book (Paradigm Concept's "Magic of Arcanis"), so I can't just post it for the same reason we can't post WotC stuff outside of the SRD.