The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent
vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums
here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules
document is now in effect.
Pope Benedict's recent mass in Paris, oh gimme a break.
Posts
How does this have to do with what I said?
Look, there are two possible states here.
State A: The catholic church has X funds that it donates to charity and Y tied up in priceless artifacts sitting around in their chapels and storage rooms. They receive donations and investments from companies and individuals that fund their charitable work.
State B: The catholic church has X + Y funds that it donates to charity because it sells off the priceless artifacts sitting around in their chapels and storage rooms. They receive donations and investments from companies and individuals that fund their charitable work.
X + Y is more than X alone. More money than otherwise would thus be donated to charity.
It's very simple.
Actually, we are talking about the state of the Catholic church and their views, good try though, I know that's your schtick and your cross to bear (lol).
Are you going to be snarky or are you going to contribute? I was addressing a specific thing: namely, Tam's claim that they believe in evolution. They don't. They believe in guided evolution, which is a different thing. Do you dispute this?
Most pastors are perfectly normal people and most have wives. Thus, having wives does not equal an inability to preach or carry out religious duties.
Unless you want to argue that since they're protestants they are not carrying out religious duties at all.
OK, I'll take that, but I was referring to the Pope alone as far as the evolution statement. The point I was trying to get across is that if he can get his followers to at least stop impeding the teaching of evolution or make them more open to it, that counts for something.
This is the thing I was referring to, btw:
http://www.cathnews.com/news/704/52.php
I agree, there would. I would hope the powers that be would be able to put aside things like "pride" and all that in order to enact good work throughout the world.
It wouldn't even have to leave the country. Sell it to the major Italian museums.
With that I will agree. Accepting that things evolve but sometimes God intervenes is better than the fundie position even if it is not scientific.
But in terms of people who otherwise wouldn't think about that stuff at all, he's at least putting the idea of things evolving into the otherwise hopelessly ignorant. Not that most catholics are otherwise hopelessly ignorant. But many are, just like many people in general are. Any ground that can be gained is thus better than the alternative: namely, 6,000 year old earthers.
Yes. You're wrong.
The current doctrine states that God gave men souls, and that evolution basically took place in situ. They've basically stated that whatever the scientists determine regarding the origin of men is fine, but does not and cannot explain the spiritual component.
He says as he roams around in his expensive customized car, his bling, and then returns to his giant god damn city state castle back in Italy.
Love how the highest ranking Catholic in the world, who presides over a facet of Christianity that forced people to bribe them to rid themselves of guilt, can even remotely assume that "greed" is a pagan institution.
Agreed. But that's a different fight.
Promotions for everyone!
The car is required, the bling is traditional, and Vatican City is not really all that big.:P
also, don't they currently rent out those artifacts to museums all over the world all the time?
But those artifacts have cultural, historical and religious meaning to them, and Catholics around the world. So no, it's not that simple.
Moreover, there's absolutely no compelling reason to do so. The Church is not, to the best of my knowledge, prevented from doing missionary and charity work due to lack of funds.
I didn't say the Pope was teaching evolution. I said it would at least be a step up to get his followers to stop impeding the teaching of it. Accepting evolution even partially is subversive to faith, pushing God further into the background and that is better, much better, than fundies wanting Creationism taught in school.
"God started the Universe and the mechanisms described by science are his metaphorical invisible hands" is a whole bucket of better in practicality than "Gawd dun currated thar Universe an' made me outta mud"
St. Peters is pretty fucking huge duder
Like, if you haven't been in it, you really have absolutely no sense of scale
Because it's a metaphor?
the anecdote game is fun
In fairness Memphis is pretty fucking insane
Tell you what. Find me a Catholic (preferably Jesuit, but I'm cool with whatever) school that doesn't teach straight-up Darwinian evolution and I will concede the point. You won't find one, though.
The realities are indeed mutually exclusive.
I am an honest man and will admit when I am wrong. I invite you to give me the official church position on evolution that contradicts my understanding of the position as a (until several years ago) lifelong catholic.
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0401bt.asp is an interesting read.
You absolutely cannot teach "straight-up Darwinian evolution" and involve souls created by God. Sorry.
Oh wow that's awesome! I didn't realize "cultural, historical and religious meaning" trumped someone else's ability to fucking feed themselves and raise themselves out of poverty and not die of AIDS in some New Delhi ditch!
Yeah no shit. I'll say this for the last time: I'm not talking about pure science, I'm saying it's a benefit to get people to believe more in science bit by bit.
They believed the Sun orbits the Earth, now they don't.
It's subversive.
?
You could also put that same argument for the insane US defense budget. Or countless other things.
Any amount of missionary work they could do would be increased by an amount X should they sell off X amount of their possessions.
Are people still dying in poverty around the world? Yeah? Then there's still room for them to donate more money to charity, isn't there?
The United States Government is not a religious organization devoted to the betterment of mankind.