I don't think you need those 8 points to be "viable" but having them does help.
But does not having them hurt? I mean it's not like you're going to put the extra 5 points into imp overpower (yes, I know it's only a 2 point talent) or something you'll never use. As long as you spend the 5 points in something you use (or another good passive), what's the difference, really?
Well, I can't play with the talent calculator right now, but can't the same be said of spending those points (at least the 5 for cruelty) in arms or prot?
While Prot lacks a mortal strike debuff of any kind, the spec can almost stun at will, take shit tons of damage, reflect spells, charge,intercept almost at will, and now puts out some very good damage. I dont think it will make it into the 2v2/3v3 circuit but I wont be embarrassed to take my prot warrior into the BG's anymore.
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
It doesn't scale with rend! It's clearly worthless.
Seriously though, 5% crit is like...+5% dps.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
But depending on what you expect from a party, having that 5% Parry from Deflection might be more helpful.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
But depending on what you expect from a party, having that 5% Parry from Deflection might be more helpful.
Nobody was advocating Cruelty over Deflection. All I was saying is that saying "AttT is awesome because your abilities scale with AP, but cruelty isn't good anymore" is just kind of silly. I'm not a big math guy, but I'd guess that 1% crit is more threat per point than 1AP per 180 armor.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
Indirectly. But on a level 70 build, I'd rather use my last 5 points on Deflection over Cruelty.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
But depending on what you expect from a party, having that 5% Parry from Deflection might be more helpful.
Nobody was advocating Cruelty over Deflection. All I was saying is that saying "AttT is awesome because your abilities scale with AP, but cruelty isn't good anymore" is just kind of silly.
Who said Cruelty wasn't good any more? Cruelty hasn't changed a single bit. Someone stated that Cruelty was required to be viable, and someone else wondered if that was actually true.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
But depending on what you expect from a party, having that 5% Parry from Deflection might be more helpful.
For myself I usually just do pug heroics/raids and soloing on my warrior so 5% dps means I get them done that little bit faster.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
But depending on what you expect from a party, having that 5% Parry from Deflection might be more helpful.
Nobody was advocating Cruelty over Deflection. All I was saying is that saying "AttT is awesome because your abilities scale with AP, but cruelty isn't good anymore" is just kind of silly. I'm not a big math guy, but I'd guess that 1% crit is more threat per point than 1AP per 180 armor.
Which is completely not what I said.
Also, someone in this thread did the math. At a certain armor value, 3 points in ATT overshadows 5 in Cruelty. I forget what the value is though.
My other point on scaling was that ATT scales as you get better gear. Cruelty is static.
Armoured to The Teeth is a brilliant talent for any Prot warrior, since the damage of all your abilities scales with AP.
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
But depending on what you expect from a party, having that 5% Parry from Deflection might be more helpful.
Nobody was advocating Cruelty over Deflection. All I was saying is that saying "AttT is awesome because your abilities scale with AP, but cruelty isn't good anymore" is just kind of silly. I'm not a big math guy, but I'd guess that 1% crit is more threat per point than 1AP per 180 armor.
Which is completely not what I said.
Also, someone in this thread did the math. At a certain armor value, 3 points in ATT overshadows 5 in Cruelty. I forget what the value is though.
Well, that's a moving target, though, because as you get more strength/AP, cruelty gets better. As you get more armor, ATT gets better. At any given time, figuring out which is better is going to depend on your current gear (and expected buffs).
My other point on scaling was that ATT scales as you get better gear. Cruelty is static.
Not really, since cruelty "scales" with getting more AP. Of course, +5% crit isn't really +5% damage either.
Anyway, my point in bringing up the discussion stems from comments like "not getting cruelty in a prot build is crazy." I don't see how it's really crazy, since those 5 points can be just as valuable elsewhere, depending on what you need and use.
Cruelty isn't really static, because as your gear improves you hit harder and your crits hit even harder, making your critical hits worth more. It also has a lot of synergy with thing like enrage procs, instant slam procs etc.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I am now saddened. My wife had stopped playing wow almost a year ago. She said if paid for her accunt i could have it. I leveled a prot paladin that she had almost gotten to 70, I really enjoyed tanking on it, now she has decided to start playing again to see how WotLK is. I have a 70 warrior on my own account but it has always been an arms pvp character for me, and honestly i havent touched it in forever. I miss tanking, and was wondering if thisthread could provide any advice on warrior tanking as it is vastly different from pld tanking frmo what i can tell.
With the warbringer talent a prot warrior can stay in defensive stance all the time for the most part.
I haven't gotten to play much with the new talents, but I'm thinking most fights will go like this: Charge / Ranged Pull depending on the situation, Shield Slam the first kill target, Thunderclap and Shockwave to build aggro on multiple targets, use Revenge whenever it's available, and spam Devastate on different targets between cooldowns on Shield Slam, TC, and Revenge.
So far I've been looking at Shield Block as less of a mitigation ability and more for a threat / damage boost. When I throw up shield block I try to get in as many shield slams as possible during its duration, so I'll hit shield slam at first then spam devastate and revenge for sword and board procs for more shield slams.
It's been a blast so far. I can't wait to try everything out in my guild's next raid.
I am now saddened. My wife had stopped playing wow almost a year ago. She said if paid for her accunt i could have it. I leveled a prot paladin that she had almost gotten to 70, I really enjoyed tanking on it, now she has decided to start playing again to see how WotLK is. I have a 70 warrior on my own account but it has always been an arms pvp character for me, and honestly i havent touched it in forever. I miss tanking, and was wondering if thisthread could provide any advice on warrior tanking as it is vastly different from pld tanking frmo what i can tell.
Basically warriors can AOE tank now and we have awesome cool abilities and crazy damage output. Youll love it, I am sure.
Also in response to aggro order, I'd say thunderclap first jsut in case the healer heals a bit early - then shockwave THEN worry about the main focus target. And spam thunderclap and shockwave whenever its up.
Freakinchair on
I'd construct a situation such that everyone died at the exact same moment so that we could attack whatever afterlife there happens to be en masse and so take it over and create a perfect unending afterlife existence. Also, everyone who wanted one would have an afterlife pony.
I am now saddened. My wife had stopped playing wow almost a year ago. She said if paid for her accunt i could have it. I leveled a prot paladin that she had almost gotten to 70, I really enjoyed tanking on it, now she has decided to start playing again to see how WotLK is. I have a 70 warrior on my own account but it has always been an arms pvp character for me, and honestly i havent touched it in forever. I miss tanking, and was wondering if thisthread could provide any advice on warrior tanking as it is vastly different from pld tanking frmo what i can tell.
You might leave your wife for your prot warrior. Just a fair warning.
I suck at PVP, and haven't been in a battleground for years. I keep getting owned by Paladins who just bubble and heal themselves. How can I prevent them from bubbling and even if they do, what tactic should I use to kill them?
I also don't get this: Granted that my character is four years old, but he is wearing the best possible gear that was availible for a level 49 back then. Yet, a bloody shaman can take 1/3rd of his health in one blow (the shaman in question was dual wielding some weapons which glowed with a huge turquoise glow I haven't seen before). And my character is dual wielding epic weapons with crusader on them, and I can barely dent people.
I am now saddened. My wife had stopped playing wow almost a year ago. She said if paid for her accunt i could have it. I leveled a prot paladin that she had almost gotten to 70, I really enjoyed tanking on it, now she has decided to start playing again to see how WotLK is. I have a 70 warrior on my own account but it has always been an arms pvp character for me, and honestly i havent touched it in forever. I miss tanking, and was wondering if thisthread could provide any advice on warrior tanking as it is vastly different from pld tanking frmo what i can tell.
You might leave your wife for your prot warrior. Just a fair warning.
FACT: 3.0 ruins marriages.
well she is all about her hunter now, I got her PLD fucking geared and she doesnt even blink at it. I got her hunter geared two 25 man raid status and she wants to start a brand new one... I almost cried. But no, she and i got into some serious shit over wow a while back but we handle on it and are only going to be playing for fun.
Reading that back to myself though sounds like a drunk saying my wife and i had problems withour drinking but totally have it under control now...
I am now saddened. My wife had stopped playing wow almost a year ago. She said if paid for her accunt i could have it. I leveled a prot paladin that she had almost gotten to 70, I really enjoyed tanking on it, now she has decided to start playing again to see how WotLK is. I have a 70 warrior on my own account but it has always been an arms pvp character for me, and honestly i havent touched it in forever. I miss tanking, and was wondering if thisthread could provide any advice on warrior tanking as it is vastly different from pld tanking frmo what i can tell.
You might leave your wife for your prot warrior. Just a fair warning.
FACT: 3.0 ruins marriages.
well she is all about her hunter now, I got her PLD fucking geared and she doesnt even blink at it. I got her hunter geared two 25 man raid status and she wants to start a brand new one... I almost cried. But no, she and i got into some serious shit over wow a while back but we handle on it and are only going to be playing for fun.
Reading that back to myself though sounds like a drunk saying my wife and i had problems withour drinking but totally have it under control now...
only your wife was being an ungrateful bitch at all the high class liquor you were supplying her, and i mean some premium shit here.
If you're reffering to me, I never left... just didnt post here is all. Played War for a week or two, but my friends needed a tank a few days in a row and now im back with WoW for the most part.
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
I suck at PVP, and haven't been in a battleground for years. I keep getting owned by Paladins who just bubble and heal themselves. How can I prevent them from bubbling and even if they do, what tactic should I use to kill them?
I also don't get this: Granted that my character is four years old, but he is wearing the best possible gear that was availible for a level 49 back then. Yet, a bloody shaman can take 1/3rd of his health in one blow (the shaman in question was dual wielding some weapons which glowed with a huge turquoise glow I haven't seen before). And my character is dual wielding epic weapons with crusader on them, and I can barely dent people.
I suck at PVP, and haven't been in a battleground for years. I keep getting owned by Paladins who just bubble and heal themselves. How can I prevent them from bubbling and even if they do, what tactic should I use to kill them?
I also don't get this: Granted that my character is four years old, but he is wearing the best possible gear that was availible for a level 49 back then. Yet, a bloody shaman can take 1/3rd of his health in one blow (the shaman in question was dual wielding some weapons which glowed with a huge turquoise glow I haven't seen before). And my character is dual wielding epic weapons with crusader on them, and I can barely dent people.
(EDIT: Yes, I've remembered to pick new talents since the patch.)
Dual Wielding generally sucks for PvP. Your spec is terrible for Dual Wielding. Your weapons are way too fast.
Get a slow 2 hander, and try this. It's probably not a perfect build, but it's at least headed in the right direction.
I have a fiery blade of the titans, which someone four years ago claimed was the best 40-49 bg weapon... but I never thought it would beat dual flurry axes with crusader.
Thanks for the tip, I'll try it!
eobet on
Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
I suck at PVP, and haven't been in a battleground for years. I keep getting owned by Paladins who just bubble and heal themselves. How can I prevent them from bubbling and even if they do, what tactic should I use to kill them?
I also don't get this: Granted that my character is four years old, but he is wearing the best possible gear that was availible for a level 49 back then. Yet, a bloody shaman can take 1/3rd of his health in one blow (the shaman in question was dual wielding some weapons which glowed with a huge turquoise glow I haven't seen before). And my character is dual wielding epic weapons with crusader on them, and I can barely dent people.
(EDIT: Yes, I've remembered to pick new talents since the patch.)
Dual Wielding generally sucks for PvP. Your spec is terrible for Dual Wielding. Your weapons are way too fast.
Get a slow 2 hander, and try this. It's probably not a perfect build, but it's at least headed in the right direction.
I have a fiery blade of the titans, which someone four years ago claimed was the best 40-49 bg weapon... but I never thought it would beat dual flurry axes with crusader.
Thanks for the tip, I'll try it!
Dual flurry axes would probably be okay for PvE stuff (except the mainhand is too goddamn fast), but in PvP Mortal Strike + bigger burst + Overpower = tehwinz.
Posts
Cruelty can be done without, honestly. But if you find with your build you have extra points, throw them at it. It certainly doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't call it a necessity anymore.
The damage on all your abilities scales with crit too.
It doesn't scale with rend! It's clearly worthless.
Seriously though, 5% crit is like...+5% dps.
But depending on what you expect from a party, having that 5% Parry from Deflection might be more helpful.
Nobody was advocating Cruelty over Deflection. All I was saying is that saying "AttT is awesome because your abilities scale with AP, but cruelty isn't good anymore" is just kind of silly. I'm not a big math guy, but I'd guess that 1% crit is more threat per point than 1AP per 180 armor.
Indirectly. But on a level 70 build, I'd rather use my last 5 points on Deflection over Cruelty.
Who said Cruelty wasn't good any more? Cruelty hasn't changed a single bit. Someone stated that Cruelty was required to be viable, and someone else wondered if that was actually true.
For myself I usually just do pug heroics/raids and soloing on my warrior so 5% dps means I get them done that little bit faster.
Which is completely not what I said.
Also, someone in this thread did the math. At a certain armor value, 3 points in ATT overshadows 5 in Cruelty. I forget what the value is though.
My other point on scaling was that ATT scales as you get better gear. Cruelty is static.
Not really, since cruelty "scales" with getting more AP. Of course, +5% crit isn't really +5% damage either.
Anyway, my point in bringing up the discussion stems from comments like "not getting cruelty in a prot build is crazy." I don't see how it's really crazy, since those 5 points can be just as valuable elsewhere, depending on what you need and use.
Probably because prot has an enrage talent.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=29594
No, but enrage and crit are both multipliers. That was my point.
I think I misinterpreted which enrage you were talking about, and what you meant by synergy.
E: Ninja edit on me, will ya?
I haven't gotten to play much with the new talents, but I'm thinking most fights will go like this: Charge / Ranged Pull depending on the situation, Shield Slam the first kill target, Thunderclap and Shockwave to build aggro on multiple targets, use Revenge whenever it's available, and spam Devastate on different targets between cooldowns on Shield Slam, TC, and Revenge.
So far I've been looking at Shield Block as less of a mitigation ability and more for a threat / damage boost. When I throw up shield block I try to get in as many shield slams as possible during its duration, so I'll hit shield slam at first then spam devastate and revenge for sword and board procs for more shield slams.
It's been a blast so far. I can't wait to try everything out in my guild's next raid.
Basically warriors can AOE tank now and we have awesome cool abilities and crazy damage output. Youll love it, I am sure.
Also in response to aggro order, I'd say thunderclap first jsut in case the healer heals a bit early - then shockwave THEN worry about the main focus target. And spam thunderclap and shockwave whenever its up.
FACT: 3.0 ruins marriages.
I also don't get this: Granted that my character is four years old, but he is wearing the best possible gear that was availible for a level 49 back then. Yet, a bloody shaman can take 1/3rd of his health in one blow (the shaman in question was dual wielding some weapons which glowed with a huge turquoise glow I haven't seen before). And my character is dual wielding epic weapons with crusader on them, and I can barely dent people.
Is there something fundamentally wrong with my character? http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Defias+Brotherhood&n=Bert
(EDIT: Yes, I've remembered to pick new talents since the patch.)
well she is all about her hunter now, I got her PLD fucking geared and she doesnt even blink at it. I got her hunter geared two 25 man raid status and she wants to start a brand new one... I almost cried. But no, she and i got into some serious shit over wow a while back but we handle on it and are only going to be playing for fun.
Reading that back to myself though sounds like a drunk saying my wife and i had problems withour drinking but totally have it under control now...
only your wife was being an ungrateful bitch at all the high class liquor you were supplying her, and i mean some premium shit here.
Warrior tanking has the player using pretty much every global cooldown. There's always something to do.
I'm currently using a 4/0/57 build --> http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LmZZVItrxczidIzsGo
If you're reffering to me, I never left... just didnt post here is all. Played War for a week or two, but my friends needed a tank a few days in a row and now im back with WoW for the most part.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LZhxZVIzrtczidIzsGo
Dual Wielding generally sucks for PvP. Your spec is terrible for Dual Wielding. Your weapons are way too fast.
Get a slow 2 hander, and try this. It's probably not a perfect build, but it's at least headed in the right direction.
I have a fiery blade of the titans, which someone four years ago claimed was the best 40-49 bg weapon... but I never thought it would beat dual flurry axes with crusader.
Thanks for the tip, I'll try it!
Dual flurry axes would probably be okay for PvE stuff (except the mainhand is too goddamn fast), but in PvP Mortal Strike + bigger burst + Overpower = tehwinz.