Yes, you do generate more rage on a crit, but with decent gear you aren't rage starved unless you miss multiple swings in a row. You'll be able to HS more and if your gear is bad it will give a larger benefit, but like slams its not that significant.
the big thing is stacking deep wounds. With loathebs buff you usually crit more then once per second,meaning that the DW ticks add up very fast and you get 4k+ ticks...every second. That means for those 6 seconds (assuming no new crits), you are doing 4k DPS without even hitting the boss.
the big thing is stacking deep wounds. With loathebs buff you usually crit more then once per second,meaning that the DW ticks add up very fast and you get 4k+ ticks...every second. That means for those 6 seconds (assuming no new crits), you are doing 4k DPS without even hitting the boss.
Deep Wounds stacking doesn't add any dps as DW follows what could be called the law of conservation of damage. Just to clarify DW does not work like the old vanilla ignite where more damage was created if you stacked crits. The current functionality of DW is essentially identical to the current functionality of ignite which allows damage to be pushed back if you get multiple crits within the duration, but at no point do you create extra damage. The one other thing that causes high Deep Wounds on Loatheb is the chance of a crit occurring withing 1 second of your last crit which causes the Deep Wounds tick to be pushed back since it ticks 1 second after your last crit, however like I said above you aren't gaining any damage its just being push back into a larger tick.
Presently, Deep Wounds has been changed to a 6 second debuff, ticking every second. New crits reset the duration of the debuff, but add the damage to the debuff rather than overwriting it. This allows Deep Wounds to essentially act as a damage buffer, ensuring that the full Deep Wounds proc damage will occur with every crit. Main hand, off hand, and special ability crits all apply Deep Wounds damage based on the same percentage of MH weapon damage formula*.
Example) Your average MH weapon damage is 100, meaning Deep Wounds will deal 48 damage with 3 ranks per application.
0 seconds: You land a critical attack.
1 second: Deep Wounds deals 8 damage.
2 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 8 damage.
3 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 8 damage. You land another critical attack. DW duration is reset to 6 seconds and the new damage is the remaining 24 + 48.
4 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 12 damage.
5 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 12 damage. You land another critical attack. DW duration is reset and the new damage is 72 - 24 + 48 = 96
6-11 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 16 damage.
*I think this part of WoWwiki's explanation may be wrong, but it's irrelevant to the explanation.
khain on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
WoWwiki isn't always up to date about things, for the record.
I know its not always, but you can read about the exact same functionality I just mentioned on EJs or look at a WWS where if rolling Deep Wounds existed warrior damage would be through the roof on Loatheb and its not.
edit: Just in case people aren't sure what I meant by rolling.
Example) Your average MH weapon damage is 100, meaning Deep Wounds will deal 48 damage with 3 ranks per application.
0 seconds: You land a critical attack.
1 second: Deep Wounds deals 8 damage.
2 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 8 damage.
3 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 8 damage. You land another critical attack. DW duration is reset to 6 seconds and the new damage is the original 48 + another 48.
4 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 16 damage.
5 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 16 damage. You land another critical attack. DW duration is reset and the new damage is 48+ 48 + 48 = 144
6-11 seconds: Deep Wounds deals 24 damage.
The only thing I can think of in the game that uses the above is the Malygos drakes and as you can see damage is created as the dot refreshes.
Charging in isn't a bad move. Switch to defensive first, though. Using your thunderclap without the threat modifier of defensive stance is essentially wasting the 6 second cooldown. If you're reasonably fast you can swap stance mid-charge, so the initial mob hits onto you should give you enough rage to tclap after the stance dance.
Charging in isn't a bad move. Switch to defensive first, though. Using your thunderclap without the threat modifier of defensive stance is essentially wasting the 6 second cooldown. If you're reasonably fast you can swap stance mid-charge, so the initial mob hits onto you should give you enough rage to tclap after the stance dance.
As I recall, swapping stances mid-charge delays your first hit, maybe even cancels your auto-attack.
SithDrummer on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
As prot spec, you can Charge in Defensive Stance anyway.
As prot spec, you can Charge in Defensive Stance anyway.
Not yet, for the person asking the question.
Changing stances mid-charge doesn't mess anything important up. At worst, you'll be at 10 rage and in the stance you want to be in to actually fight the mobs.
20k is a good starting point for Heroics, if you ask me.
I'm wearing all Heroic / 10 man / Heroism gear right now and I'm at 25.7k.
Also get Wymrest faction up first for the Chest at Revered, then Argent Dawn for the Helm Enchant.
(fixed above)
I agree, and 20k shouldn't be difficult if you're near the def cap with 80ish gear; I was at 20k hp long before 540 def (I think I'm now at 23k or so, with a couple heroic drops / eng helmet + gun)
Defense is likely more important anyway; I was able to run some heroics before capped because of a healer friend who's basically fully naxx/t7 geared, but the one time I tried to run something with a different healer (at something like 530 def) I got crit a couple of really bad times on bosses
You should be at 20k health from your defense gear anyways. I was around 22k once I started heroics, and that's easily attainable with questing/5man gear.
are both fairly nice gear references, and don't forget to filter stuff on WoWHead if you're looking for something specific (high defense in a single slot, etc).
If you're trying to reach uncrittable, this is easy to get at 80 and can help you until you can afford to put better trinkets in those slots.
Once you get into heroics just keep going for upgrades. It's pretty fast from my experience as long as you can get good groups. I'm at almost 27k now and I can still ostensibly get another 1-2k more health from upgrades, so it's possible to get quite geared out before going to Naxx (if that's your goal).
All right, so pre-70 or so, is there anything you can do against a DK of equivalent level and gear? Kiting, slowing, autopull/stunning, free pet, and a ring of DoT. Mostly I just wanted to bitch about goddamn DKs, but really, is there a method?
My friend leveled up a warrior on my account before TBC came out while I wasn't playing, and he's mostly been sitting there doing nothing up until like 4 days ago when I resub'd after a couple of months away. Started out level 43 with a Hand of Righteousness to tank with.
My initial plan was just to run instances with rested xp and slowly level him up while I tried to get my main to 80, but I started having a lot of fun tanking. Did ZF and Mara like 5 times each today without a single wipe (I had never tanked before 4 days ago), and after the 2nd or so run when I got used to my abilities I noticed I was getting higher and higher on the dps meter, even to people 2-3 levels above me. Has prot really been buffed this much, were these particular people really bad, or have the old instances been made easier?
Oh! and people were randomly whispering me asking me to do instances! I'd kill for that to happen on my rogue.
Here he is, let me know if there's anything I should change or any suggestions to help me get better.
This is my tank.
I've just started attempting heroics, mostly pessimistic because I didn't start tanking things until he was like level 73.
Gear looks fine, no focused rage makes me a sad panda :-/
It's a fine decision from a MT standpoint - if he's tanking, he will have no shortage of rage.
yes and no. vs raid bosses and most instance bosses it's cool, but there are a number of situations in 5man content where you may find yourself rage starved or suddenly needing rage. It's also totally possible to run yourself dry of rage in most fights. if you can't, you just aren't HSing/Cleaving often enough!
ymmv but i'd say it's 3 points better spent than in cruelty, especially come next patch when cleave will be ridiculously awesome for most trash pulls.
This is my tank.
I've just started attempting heroics, mostly pessimistic because I didn't start tanking things until he was like level 73.
Gear looks fine, no focused rage makes me a sad panda :-/
It's a fine decision from a MT standpoint - if he's tanking, he will have no shortage of rage.
that argument works for not taking Puncture, but there isn't really anywhere you get more bang for your buck than in Focused Rage. A lot of fights that you might MT don't give you much rage...I would dread tanking Gothik, Noth, or Gothik's adds without Focused Rage, for example.
So I got Armaggedon tonight. I've been using Jawbone MH and Demise OH, and I'm not sure where to put it. It feels dirty OH it but Jawbone has such a nice damage range and top end damage, I can't see ditching it for armeggedon. Putting Arma in my OH is an upgrade in everyway accept the loss of hit, which sucks but I can live without it, especially come next patch, but it just feels and looks wrong. I was thinking of MHing it with the ebon blade sword as it has such godly stats but that seems a bit weird as well, I can't really find anything about weapons on elitist jerks (well, I didn't look that hard), kinda annoying. I'm thinking of just going arms for awhile, see how that works out. I feel stupid passing on claymore of ancient power a few weeks back, would of been a partner. : /
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
0
EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
To be fair, I am considering making a hop to 5/8/58 or whatever it is.
You could run it through landsoul's spreadsheet* with your own stats, but I'm pretty positive that you want Jawbone MH due to the higher top end and slower speed, but I'm unsure about the OH as hit is pretty valuable but you're also losing some damage.
*I can't seem to find a old version and the current version is for next patch so the removal of the TG miss means that hit isn't as valuable according to it.
To be fair, I am considering making a hop to 5/8/58 or whatever it is.
5/8/54
That's what I was until my gear picked up some and I had enough crit to support going to impale (which isn't really that much, to be honest). I'm not seeing a huge difference in threat gen, but I would say that it's up overall. Not really enough to be necessary in 5 mans or even raiding with anyone but the craziest of dps. My personal dps definitely went up though.
Go do more heroics, though, and get to revered with wyrmrest so you can wear those boots. That'll get you over the defense cap, plus they're awesome.
I think I missed the memo about whatever cleave change is coming since I've been away, what's the story?
Edit: Oh snap, just found it. That is super hot.
Mad Jazz on
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EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
To be fair, I am considering making a hop to 5/8/58 or whatever it is.
5/8/54
That's what I was until my gear picked up some and I had enough crit to support going to impale (which isn't really that much, to be honest). I'm not seeing a huge difference in threat gen, but I would say that it's up overall. Not really enough to be necessary in 5 mans or even raiding with anyone but the craziest of dps. My personal dps definitely went up though.
Go do more heroics, though, and get to revered with wyrmrest so you can wear those boots. That'll get you over the defense cap, plus they're awesome.
I think I missed the memo about whatever cleave change is coming since I've been away, what's the story?
Edit: Oh snap, just found it. That is super hot.
Was Def capped til I put the epic ring on. Also, running Heroics is high on the docket and I'm 9/12k to revered with the Wyrmrest. The previously linked tankspot gear guide is my mentor.
Should I hop to 5/8/54 with my current gear set?
Also: Glyphs - Sunder/Block/Revenge and Charge/ThunderClap/Battle, until the cleave change at least.
So uh, is Shield Block broken or something? It takes time for me to get off. I hit the button and it doesn't go right away.
Though I do have it macroed with a trinket, so maybe that's fucking it up.
Shield Block is off the global cooldown, so it should go off no matter when you hit it. I can't recall if trinkets are on the global cooldown, but if they are, that might be mucking things up.
I'm having a slight problem with gear and defense numbers, and it's bugging the crap out of me.
Right now, I'm wearing Special Issue Legplates with a 24 atk gem. My Defense stat is 538. Bolstered Legplates just dropped from VH. Haven't gemmed it yet. It has 12 more Defense points. Yet when I equip it, my Defense goes down 2 points, to 536.
Am I missing something here in the stats? Why would I lose Defense when equipping an item with more Defense on it? Or is it just a display bug like I think it is?
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
That is very odd...Unless your meta deactivates by not having a gem in the legs.
Also, get rid of that attack power gem and put at least a Str gem in there.
Yeah, I just threw the atk gem in it at the time since I had one. Didn't feel the need to start min maxing the numbers until I started getting better gear or into Naxx. Which should be soonish according to the guild.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Posts
Deep Wounds stacking doesn't add any dps as DW follows what could be called the law of conservation of damage. Just to clarify DW does not work like the old vanilla ignite where more damage was created if you stacked crits. The current functionality of DW is essentially identical to the current functionality of ignite which allows damage to be pushed back if you get multiple crits within the duration, but at no point do you create extra damage. The one other thing that causes high Deep Wounds on Loatheb is the chance of a crit occurring withing 1 second of your last crit which causes the Deep Wounds tick to be pushed back since it ticks 1 second after your last crit, however like I said above you aren't gaining any damage its just being push back into a larger tick.
*I think this part of WoWwiki's explanation may be wrong, but it's irrelevant to the explanation.
edit: Just in case people aren't sure what I meant by rolling.
The only thing I can think of in the game that uses the above is the Malygos drakes and as you can see damage is created as the dot refreshes.
shield slam > revenge > conc blow > shockwave > devastate; maintain thunderclap, dump excess rage into heroic strike
AoE:
shockwave > thunderclap > shield slam > revenge > conc blow > devastate; dump excess rage into cleave
Is it still a good idea to charge > thunderclap > switch to def. stance, and go from there? Or is it more efficient to simply pull with taunt?
Not yet, for the person asking the question.
Changing stances mid-charge doesn't mess anything important up. At worst, you'll be at 10 rage and in the stance you want to be in to actually fight the mobs.
I have the def cap so thats not an issue.
I'm wearing all Heroic / 10 man / Heroism gear right now and I'm at 25.7k.
Also get Wymrest faction up first for the Chest at Exalted, then Argent Dawn for the Helm Enchant.
(fixed above)
I agree, and 20k shouldn't be difficult if you're near the def cap with 80ish gear; I was at 20k hp long before 540 def (I think I'm now at 23k or so, with a couple heroic drops / eng helmet + gun)
Defense is likely more important anyway; I was able to run some heroics before capped because of a healer friend who's basically fully naxx/t7 geared, but the one time I tried to run something with a different healer (at something like 530 def) I got crit a couple of really bad times on bosses
http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t36850-protection_gear_quick_reference/
and
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/40966-polar-s-easy-pre-naxx-tank-gear-list.html
are both fairly nice gear references, and don't forget to filter stuff on WoWHead if you're looking for something specific (high defense in a single slot, etc).
If you're trying to reach uncrittable, this is easy to get at 80 and can help you until you can afford to put better trinkets in those slots.
Once you get into heroics just keep going for upgrades. It's pretty fast from my experience as long as you can get good groups. I'm at almost 27k now and I can still ostensibly get another 1-2k more health from upgrades, so it's possible to get quite geared out before going to Naxx (if that's your goal).
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
I've just started attempting heroics, mostly pessimistic because I didn't start tanking things until he was like level 73.
Gear looks fine, no focused rage makes me a sad panda :-/
It's a fine decision from a MT standpoint - if he's tanking, he will have no shortage of rage.
My initial plan was just to run instances with rested xp and slowly level him up while I tried to get my main to 80, but I started having a lot of fun tanking. Did ZF and Mara like 5 times each today without a single wipe (I had never tanked before 4 days ago), and after the 2nd or so run when I got used to my abilities I noticed I was getting higher and higher on the dps meter, even to people 2-3 levels above me. Has prot really been buffed this much, were these particular people really bad, or have the old instances been made easier?
Oh! and people were randomly whispering me asking me to do instances! I'd kill for that to happen on my rogue.
Here he is, let me know if there's anything I should change or any suggestions to help me get better.
yes and no. vs raid bosses and most instance bosses it's cool, but there are a number of situations in 5man content where you may find yourself rage starved or suddenly needing rage. It's also totally possible to run yourself dry of rage in most fights. if you can't, you just aren't HSing/Cleaving often enough!
ymmv but i'd say it's 3 points better spent than in cruelty, especially come next patch when cleave will be ridiculously awesome for most trash pulls.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
Unfortunately, it'd be quite impossible for me to actually use right now.
that argument works for not taking Puncture, but there isn't really anywhere you get more bang for your buck than in Focused Rage. A lot of fights that you might MT don't give you much rage...I would dread tanking Gothik, Noth, or Gothik's adds without Focused Rage, for example.
I'm dead serious."
*I can't seem to find a old version and the current version is for next patch so the removal of the TG miss means that hit isn't as valuable according to it.
5/8/54
That's what I was until my gear picked up some and I had enough crit to support going to impale (which isn't really that much, to be honest). I'm not seeing a huge difference in threat gen, but I would say that it's up overall. Not really enough to be necessary in 5 mans or even raiding with anyone but the craziest of dps. My personal dps definitely went up though.
Go do more heroics, though, and get to revered with wyrmrest so you can wear those boots. That'll get you over the defense cap, plus they're awesome.
I think I missed the memo about whatever cleave change is coming since I've been away, what's the story?
Edit: Oh snap, just found it. That is super hot.
Was Def capped til I put the epic ring on. Also, running Heroics is high on the docket and I'm 9/12k to revered with the Wyrmrest. The previously linked tankspot gear guide is my mentor.
Should I hop to 5/8/54 with my current gear set?
Also: Glyphs - Sunder/Block/Revenge and Charge/ThunderClap/Battle, until the cleave change at least.
Though I do have it macroed with a trinket, so maybe that's fucking it up.
Sounds like a good ol' fashioned latency issue to me. AKA: Lag.
Shield Block is off the global cooldown, so it should go off no matter when you hit it. I can't recall if trinkets are on the global cooldown, but if they are, that might be mucking things up.
Right now, I'm wearing Special Issue Legplates with a 24 atk gem. My Defense stat is 538. Bolstered Legplates just dropped from VH. Haven't gemmed it yet. It has 12 more Defense points. Yet when I equip it, my Defense goes down 2 points, to 536.
Am I missing something here in the stats? Why would I lose Defense when equipping an item with more Defense on it? Or is it just a display bug like I think it is?
Also, get rid of that attack power gem and put at least a Str gem in there.
But preferably an 8 expertise 12 stam gem.
That would be it. Me dumb. Thanks.
Yeah, I just threw the atk gem in it at the time since I had one. Didn't feel the need to start min maxing the numbers until I started getting better gear or into Naxx. Which should be soonish according to the guild.