So rather than step on my friend's DK toes by continuing to level my DK and ultimately ending up in the same min/maxed DPS spec as him, I've decided to go a different route and spec my warrior from prot to fury. Any suggestions for trying to piece together a good starter set for that? I leveled prot so I don't really have a lot of DPS stuff. I have enough titansteel to make a destroyer currently, and was looking at a titansteel spiked helm after that. Any other ideas?
You're on the right track. Get your hit rating up to 10%, get your crit up to 30%. Just focus on figuring out what your worst DPS piece is and find a replacement. Don't be afraid to dip into leather if that'll be an upgrade. Titansteel Destroyer is good, Titansteel Spiked Helm is good, the boots are pretty bad. Runeblade of Demonstrable Power would make a decent enough offhand to pair with a Destroyer.
Yeah the Titansteel boots are terrible. Get your Ebon Blade rep up to Exalted for those boots.
Also, even though I'm a pretty bad ass tank, I'm getting kinda tired of it. I want to go Fury and rape faces, but meh. I'd never find my way to a group again on BB.
Because I'm too lazy to respec to move a single point.
I just got blamed for a group wipe on Xevozz though. The hunter was attacking off targets on the elite group pulls and pulling agro too. So the DPS warrior started cursing me out, and I kicked his ass out of the group. Granted, the other 3 left and the warrior asked me why I was "raging." I just don't have time to deal with other people's stupid shit. The hunter shouldn't be attacking off targets and the Warrior shouldn't suck so much. He told me I should put my back to Xevozz and run. Yeah, because I can really dodge and parry that way.
Because I'm too lazy to respec to move a single point.
I just got blamed for a group wipe on Xevozz though. The hunter was attacking off targets on the elite group pulls and pulling agro too. So the DPS warrior started cursing me out, and I kicked his ass out of the group. Granted, the other 3 left and the warrior asked me why I was "raging." I just don't have time to deal with other people's stupid shit. The hunter shouldn't be attacking off targets and the Warrior shouldn't suck so much. He told me I should put my back to Xevozz and run. Yeah, because I can really dodge and parry that way.
Or instead of bitching you could just man up and become a bad ass tank that can hold agro on multiple targets. Also why would you ever put points in Puncture over Focused Rage or Imp HS, especially the focused rage as it better in every way.
For Xevozz you should do whatever it takes to kite him along the upper platform. If that happens to need you to turn and run then do it since the orbs catching up to you is gg, especially when he doesn't even hit that hard.
I can hold agro on multiple targets no problem, but I expect people to follow directions and attack the target they're supposed to be. I shouldn't have to focus on an off target because one retard DPS decides that's what he's gonna attack.
As for the talent point, it was a mistake when I was setting my talents. The 3rd point should be switched from Puncture to Focused, but I don't care enough respec over one point that has little to no impact. As for Imp HS, Imp HS is useless to me.
I still don't see the problem with just tanking everything given that its a pug and its not like its even hard to keep agro right now. Also do you not use HS or something since Imp HS should be hands down better than Puncture since you should be using HS as a rage dump and Devastate is pretty much only used to burn gcds.
Ugh, I've already talked about my use of HS in this thread. It's macroed to Glyph of Revenge and that's the only time I ever use it, so it's free anyways.
Ugh, I've already talked about my use of HS in this thread. It's macroed to Glyph of Revenge and that's the only time I ever use it, so it's free anyways.
That's dumb, and you're dumb for it. HS is extra threat, extra damage, better chance to hit (because it uses the special hit cap and not the melee one) and your absolute best rage dump for single targets. In most battles you WILL be rage capped even if you are spamming abilities every GCD. If you're not turning most of your melee hits in to HSs as well, you're losing out on a lot of extra damage and threat. It may not seem 'necessary' if you're already holding aggro, but it's extra damage. While you are not there to do damage, there's a big difference (especially in 5man content, which it sounds like you're running) between a lazy tank that does say, 750dps, and a tank who is pushing themselves that can hit 1k or higher.
PS: If you're having trouble with people attacking the wrong targets, make it clear.
Create a macro to use at the beginning of the run which outlines which order you want targets to be DPSd in (using raid markings). Bind your raid markings (this can be done through the default keybind interface) to some easily accessible buttons (for instance, I use the Function keys). Then, mark your shit so people know exactly what they should be dpsing. Having been on both sides of the equation I can say it's just as irritating partying with a tank who doesn't make things clear, switches targets often and then yells at you when you're not assisting on whatever he's designated the 'main target' in his head.
I really don't care about your arguments for HS. I've stated my position and it's not changing.
As for people attacking the wrong targets, I use the Target Charms mod which puts the icons up on your screen instead of the right click menu. I mark the important targets (usually any spell casters first) with Skull and secondary with X. I always explain this at the beginning of groups and some people still don't listen. It's maddening. I'll even call out mobs by their name that should be DPSed first, say like the spawns in VH where I might not be able to mark it fast enough, and some people still refuse to listen.
JustinSane07 on
0
EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
I really don't care about your arguments for HS. I've stated my position and it's not changing.
Some people still refuse to listen.
Good Night ladies and gentlemen!
That said, an HS (Revenge Glyph) macro like
/Cast Revenge
/Cast Heroic Strike
Still next casts HS if Revenge isn't available. I mean really, what else are you hitting after 5 sunders, Shield Block is up and Shield Slam is cooling down?
Change it to the above. It'll first cast Revenge if possible, then Heroic Strike. If Revenge goes off, it queues Heroic Strike. If Revenge is down, Heroic Strike is Queued.
This one time, I had 60 Rage and I didn't use Heroic Strike.
This other time, I had max Rage, and I didn't use anything for 5 seconds.
Oh noes, I'm wasting ma threats! I'm such a rebel.
Seriously though, this is my checklist during a fight. Did I hold aggro? Did the enemy die in a resonable timeframe? Mission accomplished. I'm over playing the bleeding number game. Really don't give a hoot if I used Devastate 3 times more than I should have, or I didn't hit HS at the optimal point, and instead of 1500 TPS I only did 1400, and I must obviously suck because of it. And everything in between.
Different strokes for different folks, and all that jazz.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
0
EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
This one time, I had 60 Rage and I didn't use Heroic Strike.
This other time, I had max Rage, and I didn't use anything for 5 seconds.
Oh noes, I'm wasting ma threats! I'm such a rebel.
Seriously though, this is my checklist during a fight. Did I hold aggro? Did the enemy die in a resonable timeframe? Mission accomplished. I'm over playing the bleeding number game. Really don't give a hoot if I used Devastate 3 times more than I should have, or I didn't hit HS at the optimal point, and instead of 1500 TPS I only did 1400, and I must obviously suck because of it. And everything in between.
Different strokes for different folks, and all that jazz.
Not extra threat, extra DPS. I guess rebels don't read.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
Just because you're doing ENOUGH dps is no excuse to not be the best tank you can be.
Seriously, do you guys not have any sort of sense of pride when you know you did the best job you can? You're playing the game for fun...half of the fun in this game is seeing how good your character can get, from both gear, and as your skill develops.
Would you salivate over a weapon upgrade that gives you a 200 TPS output boost?
if yes, then you should be equally focused on optimising your rotation to get another 1000-1500 TPS out of it (yes, spamming heroic strike can result in this much)
Yes, there's pride in doing the best job that I can. But come on, there's a drastic difference between somebody who only hits Sunder and doesn't use a shield, and someone who hit Revenge before Shield Slam instead of the other way around. It just seems lately that all the tank talk is devolving into this silly calculus min-max game where you're considered bad because you only gave 108% instead of 110% on the last fight. I played that game, and it damn near burned me out.
So yes, I'll always do the best I can. But I don't run damage meters and stuff to make sure I'm always doing 3000 points instead of 2900, or whatever the math is.
Like I said. Did I hold aggro? Did the boss die? Then Hi-5. It took 3 minutes instead of 2:40? *shrug*
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Wait until you try and get yourself a bronze drake before you say that ;-)
None of us are saying that you are a bad tank if you're not using HS all the time omg pay attention you missed a HS I'm going to whip you now you bad boy.
I'm notoriously horrible for forgetting it, and when I'm feeling lazy I'll just sit back and spam TC/Cleave/Shield slam on trash and not really pay attention to anything else. There's a time and place for everything.
There's a big difference between forgetting to use HS, or not paying perfect attention to it in easy content, and not dumping rage with it at all, ever, because it's too difficult for you and you're too stuck in your ways.
Additionally, if you come into the thread complaining about a problem that can be corrected by more threat output, expect to be mocked when you aren't willing to take the (incredibly simple) steps to put out more threat.
In any case: Prot Warrior dps isn't anything special, but threat is a lot more derived from damage than it used to be, even if it still isn't as good as some of the other stuff other classes get.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
I really don't care about your arguments for HS. I've stated my position and it's not changing.
Then maybe you would be better off as Fury. Or a rock, or something else that doesn't have to press many buttons.
Have you thought about a Hunter?
FUNNY ENOUGH. I played a Hunter for 3 years. By the time I stopped, I had everything bound to one macro button, and I had that macro bound to my G15 and I just held the button down for DPS.
But guys, just because I'm not using HS doesn't mean I'm sitting on a full rage bar. I use Cleave to burn away the extra rage.
Ugh, I've already talked about my use of HS in this thread. It's macroed to Glyph of Revenge and that's the only time I ever use it, so it's free anyways.
From what you've said previously, one can only infer that 1) you use cleave to dump rage on single targets, 2) you don't dump rage on single targets, or 3) you outgear every instance you ever run and are constantly rage starved. 1 and 2 would both be terribad, and if #3 is that case (which I don't believe it is) you should have 3/3 focused rage and imp HS to begin with, which is basically how this conversation even got started.
I've dumped rage on single targets before with Cleave, yeah, but I wouldn't call that "terribad." It's still damage and it dumps way more rage than HS does.
As for being rage starved, I'm not there yet (200 level items), but I don't find myself at max rage that often. Thunderclap, Demo Shout, Shockwave, Concussion Blow are all ways to rage dump that provide more benefit than either HS or Cleave, depending on the pull.
I do find my self rage starved when soloing shit though. I had to change up my style to basically Devstate Spam, Revenge/HS when it's up and only Shield Slam when S&B is up. I couldn't do shit using Shield Slam without S&B being up. It ate way too much rage that I wasn't getting back fast enough.
But I'm done with this discussion, honestly. I pull 1200 DPS in 5 mans, 1500 in 10 mans, and I do a fine job of tanking. I occasionally have issues multi-target tanking when retards don't listen but for the most part I do a damn good job. I get tons of compliments from DPS and healers alike about how well I do. Just because I'm getting 95% efficiency(sp?) with my skills instead of 98% isn't a reason to crucify my play style like it's some horrific travesty.
what tanking rotation do you guys have to use now for instances with so many multi target packs?
Shockwave, sunder sunder, revenge, shieldbash?
/noobtastic question
For me it's heroic throw a caster, charge, thunderclap, shockwave. Shield slam and revenge whenever I can (tabbing targets as necessary), and cleave spam. Thunderclap every CD. Cleave spam will get even better next patch.
I've dumped rage on single targets before with Cleave, yeah, but I wouldn't call that "terribad." It's still damage and it dumps way more rage than HS does.
As for being rage starved, I'm not there yet (200 level items), but I don't find myself at max rage that often. Thunderclap, Demo Shout, Shockwave, Concussion Blow are all ways to rage dump that provide more benefit than either HS or Cleave, depending on the pull.
I do find my self rage starved when soloing shit though. I had to change up my style to basically Devstate Spam, Revenge/HS when it's up and only Shield Slam when S&B is up. I couldn't do shit using Shield Slam without S&B being up. It ate way too much rage that I wasn't getting back fast enough.
But I'm done with this discussion, honestly. I pull 1200 DPS in 5 mans, 1500 in 10 mans, and I do a fine job of tanking. I occasionally have issues multi-target tanking when retards don't listen but for the most part I do a damn good job. I get tons of compliments from DPS and healers alike about how well I do. Just because I'm getting 95% efficiency(sp?) with my skills instead of 98% isn't a reason to crucify my play style like it's some horrific travesty.
This is what we call "constructive criticism," which you apparently do not handle well. People are telling you you're doing something wrong and telling you how to fix it, and your basic response is "what I do works fine, screw you guys, I don't care what you think."
Most people here don't want to be dicks, we want to help each other become better players and seek advice where we're lacking. You are being unnecessarily combative to people who are just trying to help you.
I've dumped rage on single targets before with Cleave, yeah, but I wouldn't call that "terribad." It's still damage and it dumps way more rage than HS does.
Cleave does less damage and threat against a single target than HS does. Also can you not see the irony of coming here and complaining about someone not listening to you and then turning around and doing the exact same thing?
[...]and someone who hit Revenge before Shield Slam instead of the other way around.
Are you saying that you should hit Revenge before Shield Slam? I always hit Shield Slam first to get it on cooldown since Revenge can proc an additional Shield Slam.
Posts
Also, even though I'm a pretty bad ass tank, I'm getting kinda tired of it. I want to go Fury and rape faces, but meh. I'd never find my way to a group again on BB.
You still have 3 points in puncture and only 2 in focused rage. Why do you taunt me so?
I just got blamed for a group wipe on Xevozz though. The hunter was attacking off targets on the elite group pulls and pulling agro too. So the DPS warrior started cursing me out, and I kicked his ass out of the group. Granted, the other 3 left and the warrior asked me why I was "raging." I just don't have time to deal with other people's stupid shit. The hunter shouldn't be attacking off targets and the Warrior shouldn't suck so much. He told me I should put my back to Xevozz and run. Yeah, because I can really dodge and parry that way.
Or instead of bitching you could just man up and become a bad ass tank that can hold agro on multiple targets. Also why would you ever put points in Puncture over Focused Rage or Imp HS, especially the focused rage as it better in every way.
For Xevozz you should do whatever it takes to kite him along the upper platform. If that happens to need you to turn and run then do it since the orbs catching up to you is gg, especially when he doesn't even hit that hard.
As for the talent point, it was a mistake when I was setting my talents. The 3rd point should be switched from Puncture to Focused, but I don't care enough respec over one point that has little to no impact. As for Imp HS, Imp HS is useless to me.
That's dumb, and you're dumb for it. HS is extra threat, extra damage, better chance to hit (because it uses the special hit cap and not the melee one) and your absolute best rage dump for single targets. In most battles you WILL be rage capped even if you are spamming abilities every GCD. If you're not turning most of your melee hits in to HSs as well, you're losing out on a lot of extra damage and threat. It may not seem 'necessary' if you're already holding aggro, but it's extra damage. While you are not there to do damage, there's a big difference (especially in 5man content, which it sounds like you're running) between a lazy tank that does say, 750dps, and a tank who is pushing themselves that can hit 1k or higher.
PS: If you're having trouble with people attacking the wrong targets, make it clear.
Create a macro to use at the beginning of the run which outlines which order you want targets to be DPSd in (using raid markings). Bind your raid markings (this can be done through the default keybind interface) to some easily accessible buttons (for instance, I use the Function keys). Then, mark your shit so people know exactly what they should be dpsing. Having been on both sides of the equation I can say it's just as irritating partying with a tank who doesn't make things clear, switches targets often and then yells at you when you're not assisting on whatever he's designated the 'main target' in his head.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
As for people attacking the wrong targets, I use the Target Charms mod which puts the icons up on your screen instead of the right click menu. I mark the important targets (usually any spell casters first) with Skull and secondary with X. I always explain this at the beginning of groups and some people still don't listen. It's maddening. I'll even call out mobs by their name that should be DPSed first, say like the spawns in VH where I might not be able to mark it fast enough, and some people still refuse to listen.
Good Night ladies and gentlemen!
That said, an HS (Revenge Glyph) macro like
/Cast Revenge
/Cast Heroic Strike
Still next casts HS if Revenge isn't available. I mean really, what else are you hitting after 5 sunders, Shield Block is up and Shield Slam is cooling down?
Edit isn't quote, but it's too late now.
#showtooltip Revenge
/castsequence reset=2 Revenge, Heroic Strike
Change it to the above. It'll first cast Revenge if possible, then Heroic Strike. If Revenge goes off, it queues Heroic Strike. If Revenge is down, Heroic Strike is Queued.
Then maybe you would be better off as Fury. Or a rock, or something else that doesn't have to press many buttons.
Have you thought about a Hunter?
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
This other time, I had max Rage, and I didn't use anything for 5 seconds.
Oh noes, I'm wasting ma threats! I'm such a rebel.
Seriously though, this is my checklist during a fight. Did I hold aggro? Did the enemy die in a resonable timeframe? Mission accomplished. I'm over playing the bleeding number game. Really don't give a hoot if I used Devastate 3 times more than I should have, or I didn't hit HS at the optimal point, and instead of 1500 TPS I only did 1400, and I must obviously suck because of it. And everything in between.
Different strokes for different folks, and all that jazz.
Not extra threat, extra DPS. I guess rebels don't read.
Seriously, do you guys not have any sort of sense of pride when you know you did the best job you can? You're playing the game for fun...half of the fun in this game is seeing how good your character can get, from both gear, and as your skill develops.
Would you salivate over a weapon upgrade that gives you a 200 TPS output boost?
if yes, then you should be equally focused on optimising your rotation to get another 1000-1500 TPS out of it (yes, spamming heroic strike can result in this much)
So yes, I'll always do the best I can. But I don't run damage meters and stuff to make sure I'm always doing 3000 points instead of 2900, or whatever the math is.
Like I said. Did I hold aggro? Did the boss die? Then Hi-5. It took 3 minutes instead of 2:40? *shrug*
Wait until you try and get yourself a bronze drake before you say that ;-)
None of us are saying that you are a bad tank if you're not using HS all the time omg pay attention you missed a HS I'm going to whip you now you bad boy.
I'm notoriously horrible for forgetting it, and when I'm feeling lazy I'll just sit back and spam TC/Cleave/Shield slam on trash and not really pay attention to anything else. There's a time and place for everything.
There's a big difference between forgetting to use HS, or not paying perfect attention to it in easy content, and not dumping rage with it at all, ever, because it's too difficult for you and you're too stuck in your ways.
Additionally, if you come into the thread complaining about a problem that can be corrected by more threat output, expect to be mocked when you aren't willing to take the (incredibly simple) steps to put out more threat.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
In any case: Prot Warrior dps isn't anything special, but threat is a lot more derived from damage than it used to be, even if it still isn't as good as some of the other stuff other classes get.
FUNNY ENOUGH. I played a Hunter for 3 years. By the time I stopped, I had everything bound to one macro button, and I had that macro bound to my G15 and I just held the button down for DPS.
But guys, just because I'm not using HS doesn't mean I'm sitting on a full rage bar. I use Cleave to burn away the extra rage.
Well what do you use to burn away excess rage against single targets?
Also, woo, 30k unbuffed.
From what you've said previously, one can only infer that 1) you use cleave to dump rage on single targets, 2) you don't dump rage on single targets, or 3) you outgear every instance you ever run and are constantly rage starved. 1 and 2 would both be terribad, and if #3 is that case (which I don't believe it is) you should have 3/3 focused rage and imp HS to begin with, which is basically how this conversation even got started.
As for being rage starved, I'm not there yet (200 level items), but I don't find myself at max rage that often. Thunderclap, Demo Shout, Shockwave, Concussion Blow are all ways to rage dump that provide more benefit than either HS or Cleave, depending on the pull.
I do find my self rage starved when soloing shit though. I had to change up my style to basically Devstate Spam, Revenge/HS when it's up and only Shield Slam when S&B is up. I couldn't do shit using Shield Slam without S&B being up. It ate way too much rage that I wasn't getting back fast enough.
But I'm done with this discussion, honestly. I pull 1200 DPS in 5 mans, 1500 in 10 mans, and I do a fine job of tanking. I occasionally have issues multi-target tanking when retards don't listen but for the most part I do a damn good job. I get tons of compliments from DPS and healers alike about how well I do. Just because I'm getting 95% efficiency(sp?) with my skills instead of 98% isn't a reason to crucify my play style like it's some horrific travesty.
Shockwave, sunder sunder, revenge, shieldbash?
/noobtastic question
For me it's heroic throw a caster, charge, thunderclap, shockwave. Shield slam and revenge whenever I can (tabbing targets as necessary), and cleave spam. Thunderclap every CD. Cleave spam will get even better next patch.
This is what we call "constructive criticism," which you apparently do not handle well. People are telling you you're doing something wrong and telling you how to fix it, and your basic response is "what I do works fine, screw you guys, I don't care what you think."
Most people here don't want to be dicks, we want to help each other become better players and seek advice where we're lacking. You are being unnecessarily combative to people who are just trying to help you.
Cleave does less damage and threat against a single target than HS does. Also can you not see the irony of coming here and complaining about someone not listening to you and then turning around and doing the exact same thing?
Are you saying that you should hit Revenge before Shield Slam? I always hit Shield Slam first to get it on cooldown since Revenge can proc an additional Shield Slam.