[...]and someone who hit Revenge before Shield Slam instead of the other way around.
Are you saying that you should hit Revenge before Shield Slam? I always hit Shield Slam first to get it on cooldown since Revenge can proc an additional Shield Slam.
I'm pretty sure he was saying that SS should always come before Revenge in an optimal rotation, but that doing things the other way around isn't going to make or break your ability to tank - it won't.
Nobody here cares if people tank with 100% efficiency when it doesn't affect them; nobody plays the game perfectly all the time, and it's exhausting to try. People just get irked if you come in here and make comments to the effect that you're god's gift to tanking when there are some glaring things you can improve on. Bonus points if you spit on their advice.
Oh ho. I see this as being a swipe at me. Well I didn't come asking for advice. I made an innocuous comment about my ability to tank, and you and several others criticized and attacked me for miniscule things. I never asked for advice. I never asked for help. I didn't ask "What am I doing wrong?" I responded to this defensively, because hey, I don't like being attacked and insulted. I don't know many people that do. I pointed out, with civility, that your criticisms and attacks are unwarranted because they don't mean much in the over all scheme of tanking. I never attacked or insulted any of you in response, but I got shit thrown my way anyways.
I could have just been an asshole and told you to fuck off and get off my fucking back, but I didn't. Even though at this point, I should have.
I really havent had an issue at all with holding aggro. Between huge revenge and shield slam crits, increased thunder clap damage and damage shield, Ive never had to use Heroic strike. Shit I forget to use cleave most of the time while multi tanking.
My problems right now are with staying alive, not holding aggro.
(Why does every boss in this expansion hit like a mack truck with little mack trucks for fingers?)
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
I guess everyone gets something different out of the game. My personal philosophy is that if I'm not doing everything you can to make a run go faster/more efficiently/smoother, I'm wasting other people's time (within reason).
Dumping rage into HS and cleave adds a considerable amount of damage over the course of an instance, especially cleave. Yeah, it might only make a fight go 20 seconds faster - 20 seconds faster each fight over the course of an instance is a considerable amount of time, and I'd feel like I was half-assing my way through a run if I was satisfied with just holding threat.
Take this idea to the other extreme - I had a rogue in a regular UK a few weeks ago who was doing 3-400 dps. Another rogue in the group was suggesting rotations to him, ways to do more damage, etc. He responded that he didn't care because it was just a game, and he couldn't be bothered to hit buttons faster just so things would die quicker, because "he got the same experience per kill no matter how much damage he did." The job was getting done, why should he care?
A tank's job isn't just to hold aggro anymore, it's the bare minimum of what they should be doing - they've been given the tools to do a non-trivial amount of damage over the course of a run, and they should all be used. In my opinion.
I really havent had an issue at all with holding aggro. Between huge revenge and shield slam crits, increased thunder clap damage and damage shield, Ive never had to use Heroic strike. Shit I forget to use cleave most of the time while multi tanking.
My problems right now are with staying alive, not holding aggro.
(Why does every boss in this expansion hit like a mack truck with little mack trucks for fingers?)
Same here. I mean, I use HS on bosses when I have infinite rage, because yeah, gotta burn it somehow. But there have also been some mutli pulls where I zoned out or something, and used nothing but TC for the pull, and still held aggro and killed everything. As long as the job is done, and done well, everybody is happy. And I'm not going to fret over how I forgot to hit the right button at the right time lest my dps dropped by 2 points.
I will say though, that I thank god that they made tanking a whole lot easier and fun. Trying to do something like Shattered Halls before involved an insane amount of keyboard dexterity, using Revenge on one mob while alt-tabbing to another for Shield Slam, and then to the 3rd for HS. Now it's just "Hit every button when the cooldown is up and you win".
...Yes, I know it's slightly more complicated than that. But the point is I don't break out into a cold sweat now when I have to hold 4 or more mobs at one time.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
Justinsane, you came in here talking about how you have problems with holding off people who attack incorrect targets. This is not a problem I have unless we're talking about a 25man raid with two or three people going hardout on 6-7 separate mobs...and you've already said you only do heroic 5mans, which means that you have problems with holding aggro against only one dpser per mob, which is something I don't struggle with at all, even in gear that leaves me somewhat rage-starved at times in 5mans. The only difference that I see between your playstyle and mine is that I use Heroic Strike as my next autoattack anytime I have 40 rage.
You came here with what sounded like a problem, we offered constructive criticism that you could have used to help fix the issue from your end. You chose not to take it, this does not make it a personal attack on you, it was not, get over yourself, you're not god's gift to tanking, you are far from it, if you think that the goal of rage-dumping is actually to dump rage.
So given that the Tempered Titansteel Helm is getting a meta in the patch (and thusly the only reason I made one), what meta have people been going with? 32 stam/2% armor? 32 stam/2% SDR? 21 def/5% SBV?
I'd guess the latter for a threat set maybe, but which of the first two for heroic/10 man tanking?
I still prefer the blue meta plate hat with the +hit bonus
Meh, the Titansteel helm had a greater tank point value even before the patch, and I didn't feel like chain running Nexus just to hope that that dropped. Also I tend to pug a lot - this means that a) threat is more or less never an issue, and b) whether or not I get into certain pugs depends solely on my answer to the "WAT IS UR HP AND DEF" query.
Okay, so OP post is an inspiring pic but does not tell me the nutshell on warriors these days. Skimming through 99 pages yields a mix of observations on later-level stuff.
Long story short: a buddy is playing WoW for the first time and rolled a troll warrior. Having never played a warrior myself, I'm teaching him the basics of combat and such, but he's wondering about where to put talent points now that he's level 10.
Any pearls of wisdom I ought to pass on to a budding warrior?
Sometimes I wish I was in a guild that could do 25man content. I'm like, two drops and a crafted item away from literally the best gear I can get right now, and it's kind of depressing.
You can pug pretty much all of naxx with 1 competent tank and a couple competent healers.
too bad that A: Ravenholdt is pretty dead progression wise so it's going to be hard to get in on a 25man pug and B: there are very very very few groups out there that will PuG a tank (or at least, a main tank) for raids unless the entire group is random people, in which case no thanks because those kinds of groups are a pile of repair bills and headaches.
It's cool though. Once the beasts actually get up and running with guild runs of 10man my thirst for new content will be quenched for some time.
Okay, so OP post is an inspiring pic but does not tell me the nutshell on warriors these days. Skimming through 99 pages yields a mix of observations on later-level stuff.
Where do people stand on gearing for threat vs. avoidance/mitigation? I'm loathe to drop hit/expertise, but it seems like it was all over the level 80 "starter" tanking stuff (rep items, craftables, easy to obtain stuff). It seems like even slight upgrades involve the trade off. If I'm not having threat issues, should I even worry about giving up some hit/expertise? If I'm not dying with any regularity, is it worth giving up the extra dps from these stats for a bit of extra dodge, parry, or armor?
Okay, so OP post is an inspiring pic but does not tell me the nutshell on warriors these days. Skimming through 99 pages yields a mix of observations on later-level stuff.
hahaha he actually put my orc in the OP
yesssssss
At least it's not the shame I had asking what to do with my warrior's spec when I posted it long ago
It's a lesson to all who ask
I hate having low hit in tank gear because it aggravates me to no end missing things like Shield Bash (like against a healer, since I generally can't count on the retards in PUGs to interrupt). Of course, I only do 5 man content on my warrior, where spells can actually be interrupted sometimes. I suppose that doesn't matter much for you raiding folks where there's nothing you can do against spells except brace for rape or do some sort of boss gimmick shuffle.
I have run Heroic UP like 4 times now and still havent gotten my red sword of courage.
Every night that I don't get that sword people will die.
I'm a man of my word.
HaHAhaHAhAHAhAHA
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I hate having low hit in tank gear because it aggravates me to no end missing things like Shield Bash (like against a healer, since I generally can't count on the retards in PUGs to interrupt). Of course, I only do 5 man content on my warrior, where spells can actually be interrupted sometimes. I suppose that doesn't matter much for you raiding folks where there's nothing you can do against spells except brace for rape or do some sort of boss gimmick shuffle.
Most bosses don't cast spells, the only one I can think of where you'd need to interrupt the ability is Kel'Thuzad, and he's interruptable.
Okay, so OP post is an inspiring pic but does not tell me the nutshell on warriors these days. Skimming through 99 pages yields a mix of observations on later-level stuff.
hahaha he actually put my orc in the OP
yesssssss
At least it's not the shame I had asking what to do with my warrior's spec when I posted it long ago
It's a lesson to all who ask
That needs to be in the next OP, for certain. Speaking of which... who is gonna make the new thread once we break 100 pages? And should we figure out what to get into the OP?
I hate having low hit in tank gear because it aggravates me to no end missing things like Shield Bash (like against a healer, since I generally can't count on the retards in PUGs to interrupt). Of course, I only do 5 man content on my warrior, where spells can actually be interrupted sometimes. I suppose that doesn't matter much for you raiding folks where there's nothing you can do against spells except brace for rape or do some sort of boss gimmick shuffle.
Most bosses don't cast spells, the only one I can think of where you'd need to interrupt the ability is Kel'Thuzad, and he's interruptable.
I take it you mean uninterruptable? And, yeah, that confirms my suspicions about shield bash being useless in raids.
HOWEVER, I just remembered the other reason I hate having low hit. FUCKING RESISTED TAUNTS SHIT ASS FART. Considering some raid fights rely on taunt transitions (4H at least), I'd imagine that's a good reason to get your hit up.
I hate having low hit in tank gear because it aggravates me to no end missing things like Shield Bash (like against a healer, since I generally can't count on the retards in PUGs to interrupt). Of course, I only do 5 man content on my warrior, where spells can actually be interrupted sometimes. I suppose that doesn't matter much for you raiding folks where there's nothing you can do against spells except brace for rape or do some sort of boss gimmick shuffle.
Most bosses don't cast spells, the only one I can think of where you'd need to interrupt the ability is Kel'Thuzad, and he's interruptable.
I take it you mean uninterruptable? And, yeah, that confirms my suspicions about shield bash being useless in raids.
HOWEVER, I just remembered the other reason I hate having low hit. FUCKING RESISTED TAUNTS SHIT ASS FART. Considering some raid fights rely on taunt transitions (4H at least), I'd imagine that's a good reason to get your hit up.
KT's frost bolt cast can be interrupted and its almost required that you do so, however its pretty much the only thing that can be.
Isn't taunt still a spell? Seems unlikely that you would be able to cap it unless you use the glyph.
khain on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
As a warrior, you have a lot of options if a taunt fails to act, Mocking Blow and Challenging Shout will hold a target for long enough that you can Taunt again.
And no, I meant interruptable, not uninterruptable. You don't want to be interrupting him every cast, you'll end up rage-starved, but you do want to interrupt every shield bash cooldown. If you're the only one interrupting, that works just fine.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Posts
I'm pretty sure he was saying that SS should always come before Revenge in an optimal rotation, but that doing things the other way around isn't going to make or break your ability to tank - it won't.
Nobody here cares if people tank with 100% efficiency when it doesn't affect them; nobody plays the game perfectly all the time, and it's exhausting to try. People just get irked if you come in here and make comments to the effect that you're god's gift to tanking when there are some glaring things you can improve on. Bonus points if you spit on their advice.
I could have just been an asshole and told you to fuck off and get off my fucking back, but I didn't. Even though at this point, I should have.
My problems right now are with staying alive, not holding aggro.
(Why does every boss in this expansion hit like a mack truck with little mack trucks for fingers?)
Dumping rage into HS and cleave adds a considerable amount of damage over the course of an instance, especially cleave. Yeah, it might only make a fight go 20 seconds faster - 20 seconds faster each fight over the course of an instance is a considerable amount of time, and I'd feel like I was half-assing my way through a run if I was satisfied with just holding threat.
Take this idea to the other extreme - I had a rogue in a regular UK a few weeks ago who was doing 3-400 dps. Another rogue in the group was suggesting rotations to him, ways to do more damage, etc. He responded that he didn't care because it was just a game, and he couldn't be bothered to hit buttons faster just so things would die quicker, because "he got the same experience per kill no matter how much damage he did." The job was getting done, why should he care?
A tank's job isn't just to hold aggro anymore, it's the bare minimum of what they should be doing - they've been given the tools to do a non-trivial amount of damage over the course of a run, and they should all be used. In my opinion.
Same here. I mean, I use HS on bosses when I have infinite rage, because yeah, gotta burn it somehow. But there have also been some mutli pulls where I zoned out or something, and used nothing but TC for the pull, and still held aggro and killed everything. As long as the job is done, and done well, everybody is happy. And I'm not going to fret over how I forgot to hit the right button at the right time lest my dps dropped by 2 points.
I will say though, that I thank god that they made tanking a whole lot easier and fun. Trying to do something like Shattered Halls before involved an insane amount of keyboard dexterity, using Revenge on one mob while alt-tabbing to another for Shield Slam, and then to the 3rd for HS. Now it's just "Hit every button when the cooldown is up and you win".
...Yes, I know it's slightly more complicated than that.
You came here with what sounded like a problem, we offered constructive criticism that you could have used to help fix the issue from your end. You chose not to take it, this does not make it a personal attack on you, it was not, get over yourself, you're not god's gift to tanking, you are far from it, if you think that the goal of rage-dumping is actually to dump rage.
I'd guess the latter for a threat set maybe, but which of the first two for heroic/10 man tanking?
I still prefer the blue meta plate hat with the +hit bonus
Meh, the Titansteel helm had a greater tank point value even before the patch, and I didn't feel like chain running Nexus just to hope that that dropped. Also I tend to pug a lot - this means that a) threat is more or less never an issue, and b) whether or not I get into certain pugs depends solely on my answer to the "WAT IS UR HP AND DEF" query.
And my new Deadly Gladiator's Chestpiece. Which had 7,000 more tankpoints than the blue chestpiece it replaced.
Long story short: a buddy is playing WoW for the first time and rolled a troll warrior. Having never played a warrior myself, I'm teaching him the basics of combat and such, but he's wondering about where to put talent points now that he's level 10.
Any pearls of wisdom I ought to pass on to a budding warrior?
after that you want to decide if you want to level as arms, fury, or prot... at low levels, fury is probably the best choice.
Also, Dhalphir doesn't know that we're in a gear race in my head. He just passed me with that 30k unbuffed thing...I miss being a tauren. :P
Sometimes I wish I was in a guild that could do 25man content. I'm like, two drops and a crafted item away from literally the best gear I can get right now, and it's kind of depressing.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
too bad that A: Ravenholdt is pretty dead progression wise so it's going to be hard to get in on a 25man pug and B: there are very very very few groups out there that will PuG a tank (or at least, a main tank) for raids unless the entire group is random people, in which case no thanks because those kinds of groups are a pile of repair bills and headaches.
It's cool though. Once the beasts actually get up and running with guild runs of 10man my thirst for new content will be quenched for some time.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
hahaha he actually put my orc in the OP
yesssssss
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald%20Dream&n=Tatama
need new bracers and belt badly!
My current gear
Specifically, I'm wondering about replacing my Gal'darah's Signet and Sabatons of Draconic Vigor. I have the Greaves of Ancient Evil sitting in the bank, and just about every blue tank ring that drops. Thoughts?
Not everyone feels this way
Not everyone has access to high levels of hit/expertise while maintaining 30k health :P
At least it's not the shame I had asking what to do with my warrior's spec when I posted it long ago
It's a lesson to all who ask
Jesus, you're leaking your expertise all over my floor, man!
Oh, and I forgot to mention... 25-Man Thaddius makes me hard. 7100 DPS with 20k Deep Wounds ticks? Yes please!
And I've got a helm sitting in my bags with 7 more expertise on it.
All of my red gems are 8 exp/12 stam gems.
Avoidance isn't worth socketing for.
Every night that I don't get that sword people will die.
I'm a man of my word.
Most bosses don't cast spells, the only one I can think of where you'd need to interrupt the ability is Kel'Thuzad, and he's interruptable.
That needs to be in the next OP, for certain. Speaking of which... who is gonna make the new thread once we break 100 pages? And should we figure out what to get into the OP?
then quote every single post i've ever made in this thread
there we go we're done
HOWEVER, I just remembered the other reason I hate having low hit. FUCKING RESISTED TAUNTS SHIT ASS FART. Considering some raid fights rely on taunt transitions (4H at least), I'd imagine that's a good reason to get your hit up.
KT's frost bolt cast can be interrupted and its almost required that you do so, however its pretty much the only thing that can be.
Isn't taunt still a spell? Seems unlikely that you would be able to cap it unless you use the glyph.
And no, I meant interruptable, not uninterruptable. You don't want to be interrupting him every cast, you'll end up rage-starved, but you do want to interrupt every shield bash cooldown. If you're the only one interrupting, that works just fine.
well you have to waltz face first
you cant turn your back to mobs