We have a new update on The Future of the Penny Arcade Forums.

[WoW] -adin is a suffix for all occasions. [Paladins]

18911131497

Posts

  • SporkacusSporkacus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Excellent!! Thank you all so much for the swift and accurate response :)

    Btw, SabreMau you are my hero for the 8/8 Judgment!!

    I'm excited for next tuesday, Blessing of Sanc is going to make leveling Prot so goddamn sexy.

    Sporkacus on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    My paladin has terrible gear. It is horrible. I'm thinking of getting the Ragesteel stuff made so I can do some stuff when the patch hits, then grab the last 18k honor needed for a 2h sword. (ugh)
    Is it good stuff?

    Rizzi on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Aldarez wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Well, behold my paladin's Armory. Full set!

    Still easily my favourite armor set ever.

    Looking at the stats on it though... we've really come a long way since vanilla WoW, haven't we?

    I suspect that when WoW enters it's twilight years and people start saying "People still play that?" the Judgment set will be considered one the greatest of all time still. There will be debate on the greatest sets, but the phrase "Well of course after Judgment..." will be added to each debate.

    That and Bloodfang.

    The two greatest armor sets ever crafted.

    Wavechaser on
  • Zephyranthes91Zephyranthes91 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Wewt Myrmidons Treads

    Zephyranthes91 on
    sig-919109.jpg
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    They're a nice pair of boots.

    Except that I still wish Tide-Stomper's would drop.

    Dhalphir on
  • Zephyranthes91Zephyranthes91 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    yeah i server transferred again, this time to proudmoore. Im on trial status with a guild thats 3/9 BT 4/5 Hyjal and they dropped for me off akama tonight. Sadly the Tide Stompers didnt drop and from what i hear they have a low drop chance.

    Zephyranthes91 on
    sig-919109.jpg
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    They're a nice pair of boots.

    Except that I still wish Tide-Stomper's would drop.

    The only pair we ever got went to a holy paladin. Although come to think of it, we don't have a consistent prot paladin anyways...

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So, it looks like you could easily spend all but 5 of your talent points into ret, and you wouldn't need to be ashamed about it. I cooould get BoK, but meh.

    Bigity on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    What do you guys feel is more useful during leveling after 3.0? Benediction or deflection? With the new Judgements of the Wise, I feel deflection. The reason being mana shouldn't be an issue and parries speed up your swing timer. I'm guessing at max level benediction is better just because parrying is unnecessary as dps but during leveling it seems useful. Any opinions?

    edit: Also this seems like a pretty decent PvE ret build. Am I right? There's 5 more points there for whatever too. Blessing of Kings, some pvp talents, etc.

    shadowane on
  • SporkacusSporkacus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I would have to agree with your choice of Deflection > Benediction. It just seems like a better use of points if you're going to be getting JotW or even Blessing of Sanc (due to the mana returns from dodge/block/parry). Regardless it's a better use of points.

    Sporkacus on
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I guess Benediction vs Deflection for me depends on how they 'fix' ret paladins. If they have the mana generating stuff alone, I agree with Deflection. If they screw us in PvE because of level 70 PvP, the cheaper instant spells might be more valuable.

    Bigity on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    End wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    They're a nice pair of boots.

    Except that I still wish Tide-Stomper's would drop.

    The only pair we ever got went to a holy paladin. Although come to think of it, we don't have a consistent prot paladin anyways...

    Same deal with us. I missed one BT raid ever because I had to stay back from work for an extra hour, and all I missed was Naj'entus and they dropped and /emorage

    Dhalphir on
  • LaurlunaLaurluna Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Paladin healing is baddy bad bad baaaaaaaad.

    <3 my Druid, for the time being. The Wild Growth fixes and such have made it a lot nicer. Gogo Ret Paladin for WotLK and Resto Druid for raiding stuff!



    Unless Blizz pulls their heads out...

    Laurluna on
    Being casually elitist in WoW since 2005.
    First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
    "Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Free respec on Tuesday + Level 55 pally = This?

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Free respec on Tuesday + Level 55 pally = This?

    Looks solid. I'd personally put the two points from Imp BoM into Crusade, but that's just me.

    Wavechaser on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Free respec on Tuesday + Level 55 pally = This?

    Looks solid. I'd personally put the two points from Imp BoM into Crusade, but that's just me.

    I'm levelling full-time with a Feral Druid. I think Imp. BoM does more for us overall than Crusade would.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Free respec on Tuesday + Level 55 pally = This?

    Looks solid. I'd personally put the two points from Imp BoM into Crusade, but that's just me.

    I'm levelling full-time with a Feral Druid. I think Imp. BoM does more for us overall than Crusade would.

    Well I think you're a jerk.
    <3

    Edit: In all honesty you could close your eyes, click random Ret talents until you were out of points and still end up as a fucking godly bringer of death. You really can't go wrong with the tree.

    Wavechaser on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Funny.

    Also, Mercy, as I said earlier I'm not convinced with the new mana changes whether benediction or deflection is better for leveling. If you never have any mana issues because of judgements of the wise, what's the point of reducing mana costs? With 5% more parry, you have a higher chance of getting a faster swing and wrecking some shit.

    shadowane on
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Free respec on Tuesday + Level 55 pally = This?

    Looks solid. I'd personally put the two points from Imp BoM into Crusade, but that's just me.

    I'm levelling full-time with a Feral Druid. I think Imp. BoM does more for us overall than Crusade would.

    As long as you pick them up eventually, because Crusade is that good.

    Beyond Normal on
    Battle.net: Phender#1108 -- Steam: Phender -- PS4: Phender12 -- Origin: Phender01
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    shadowane wrote: »
    Funny.

    Also, Mercy, as I said earlier I'm not convinced with the new mana changes whether benediction or deflection is better for leveling. If you never have any mana issues because of judgements of the wise, what's the point of reducing mana costs? With 5% more parry, you have a higher chance of getting a faster swing and wrecking some shit.

    That's a good point. I haven't played my pally on the PTR at all, so I don't really know how awesome JotW is. If it ends up making my mana pool last forever when it goes live, I'll probably drop Benediction for Deflection.

    @ Beyond - Of course I'll pick it up at 80. But for right now, 3% extra damage is about 4.5 extra DPS (9 extra DPS on Undead/Demons/Etc).

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Before you factor in Judgement of Wisdom/replenishment at all you can cast all your attack skills every 8 seconds as well as a flash of light and never run out of mana.

    Mgcw on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Before you factor in Judgement of Wisdom/replenishment at all you can cast all your attack skills every 8 seconds as well as a flash of light and never run out of mana.

    We'll see if it remains that way. I don't think they want anyone never running out of mana. I could be wrong, but time will tell.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    They don't want casters never running out of mana. When you switch primary role from caster to melee DPS, they're fine with your longevity. Right now, when you switch primary role from caster to tank, you never run out of mana either (assuming you're not too overgeared for what you're tanking, and assuming you're not soloing).

    SabreMau on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    SabreMau wrote: »
    They don't want casters never running out of mana. When you switch primary role from caster to melee DPS, they're fine with your longevity. Right now, when you switch primary role from caster to tank, you never run out of mana either (assuming you're not too overgeared for what you're tanking, and assuming you're not soloing).

    But now you don't even have a limited energy source. That's... uh... that's pretty silly, in my opinion. See Rage; Energy.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I agree with MayGodHaveMercy. I suspect to see some sort of nerf to retribution mana recovery. At the very least, I expect they want retribution paladins to be using some of their active regeneration abilities at some point in order to keep mana up.

    I have no idea, so this is a question, not a smarky comment: do enhancement shamans (essentially the closest class/spec comparison to ret paladins) in Wrath run into mana problems or are they just like retribution paladins?

    forty on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    "We don't think [current damage] is way off, honestly."

    The Q&A just now regarding Ret, I really don't see them nerfing damage/mana returns so much as they will healing to fix Ret in PvP.

    Mgcw on
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    forty wrote: »
    At the very least, I expect they want retribution paladins to be using some of their active regeneration abilities at some point in order to keep mana up.
    What active regeneration abilities? Divine Plea? That's basically just another JotW every minute (and will be used anyway with little DPS drawback, as it's instant, not channeled). "abilities" is plural, so what's the other one?

    SabreMau on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    SabreMau wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    At the very least, I expect they want retribution paladins to be using some of their active regeneration abilities at some point in order to keep mana up.
    What active regeneration abilities? Divine Plea? That's basically just another JotW every minute (and will be used anyway with little DPS drawback, as it's instant, not channeled). "abilities" is plural, so what's the other one?
    I'm not sure what I was thinking of there, actually. For a second I was thinking of JoW, but that's not really active since you're casting a judgement every 8 seconds anyway.

    I dunno, then, but I still have this feeling they don't want one single talent to completely take care of a ret paladin's mana bar forever.
    do enhancement shamans (essentially the closest class/spec comparison to ret paladins) in Wrath run into mana problems or are they just like retribution paladins?

    forty on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    No, they don't.

    Mgcw on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Do mana spring, Water Shield (at the cost of Lightning Shield), and Shamanistic Rage completely cover their mana expenditure? Or do they have other abilities/talents that I'm forgetting about or unaware of that get them back mana?

    forty on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Shamanistic Rage completely covers mana expenditure and then some, then you count replenishment and JoW in groups and it's most certainly not a problem.

    Mgcw on
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    forty wrote: »
    I dunno, then, but I still have this feeling they don't want one single talent to completely take care of a ret paladin's mana bar forever.
    A ret paladin doesn't itemize for int. They have much smaller mana pools than casters, and can run out of mana really fast. What do they do when they run out of mana?

    Not a whole lot.

    You know, if they didn't want one single talent to completely take care of a ret paladin's mana bar forever, they probably wouldn't have gone from the stages of "Restores a percentage of your Judgement damage in mana to three party/raid members" to "Gives Replenishment buff to up to 10 party/raid members" to "Does Replenishment buff and also gives the paladin enough mana for a full DPS rotation." But they did. And, further, when given the choice to nerf or buff it, they took it from 25% of total mana to 33% of base mana. Which, for ret, is not a nerf. Leading me to assume they're considering it to be here to stay.

    And, personally, if they manage to tone back PvP effectiveness without hurting PvE in any way, I'm fine with that. Just not too much. I still level on a PvP server.

    SabreMau on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    SabreMau wrote: »
    What do they do when they run out of mana?
    Judge. ;)

    forty on
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    forty wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    What do they do when they run out of mana?
    Judge. ;)
    Well, after 3.0, yeah. I was thinking more of live, in which I carry haste potions but end up having to forego them for mana potions instead.

    SabreMau on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Look, on Live, Ret Pally mana efficiency is terrible. I know.

    In Wrath, you might as well not have a mana bar. It's broken, in my opinion.

    EDIT: Par for the course for Blizzard. From one extreme to the other.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    It's not broken, Rogues have the same deal except their abilities have no cooldowns and you wait on energy to essentially give you a cooldown, with Ret Paladins you're just waiting on cooldowns.

    Mgcw on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    "We don't think [current damage] is way off, honestly."

    The Q&A just now regarding Ret, I really don't see them nerfing damage/mana returns so much as they will healing to fix Ret in PvP.

    Can I say "I told you so" to all the fucking retards now?

    Wavechaser on
  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I wouldn't mind some middle ground between what we have now and what it is on the PTR.

    But honestly, there have always been specs that didn't need to sit and drink that often---that essentially have limitless mana. My Dark Pact Warlock, for instance, always ran with an Imp, and never ran out of Mana, thanks to that + Imp. Life Tap. Haunt's going to make that even more so the case than before. To say nothing of Rogue's energy, which is a negligible resource to regenerate (same for Kitty Druids until they get into trouble). Hell, if you gear up right, Shadow Priests don't run out of Mana a lot either.

    mynameisguido on
    steam_sig.png
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Look, on Live, Ret Pally mana efficiency is terrible. I know.

    In Wrath, you might as well not have a mana bar. It's broken, in my opinion.

    EDIT: Par for the course for Blizzard. From one extreme to the other.
    Ok, so you don't have a mana bar. Tankadins have what's been called a "blue rage bar". Retribution will have a "blue energy bar". Only healers will have a classic mana bar, and at least their gearsets will make using Divine Plea even more potent.

    And that's fine. Rogues don't run out of energy. Warriors constantly replenish rage. "Shamanistic Rage completely covers mana expenditure and then some". Melee DPS is not supposed to have as much of a limited-resource problem as casters or healers, especially in the new revised direction WotLK design is going in.

    SabreMau on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    With regards to the Ret paladins/Rogue/Warrior resource comparisons, think about this.

    Any rogue attack that isnt a damage-enhancing cooldown has no cooldown...energy is the only limiting factor on how fast you can spam it. Same goes for warriors except some of theirs have cooldowns, while they have a rage dump in the form of Heroic Strike. However, most warriors will always have enough rage to Bloodthirst/Whirlwind on cooldown.

    Retribution paladins, in contrast, every single one of their offensive spells besides their Seals have cooldowns. Retribution DPS is limited not by the resource you are using, as Rogue DPS is, but by the cooldowns of the abilities you are using.

    Dhalphir on
This discussion has been closed.