There aren't any ranks of Divine Storm and Crusader Strike, etc. because the abilities themselves scale very well with your gear. Anyway, the damage doesn't need to be nerfed but the healing does.
There aren't any ranks of Divine Storm and Crusader Strike, etc. because the abilities themselves scale very well with your gear. Anyway, the damage doesn't need to be nerfed but the healing does.
The simplest way to nerf us in PvP with out affecting PvE is to take out the CD reduction of HoJ from the PvP set.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
How to balance Paladins in PvP without affecting their PvE viability:
1) Paladins only benefit from resilience when they have Hand of Salvation active on them.
2) Paladins deal -50% damage against targets that have resilience gear on them.
3) If the Paladin is wearing resilience gear, he can't cast heals.
I hate the paladin community so much. We must be the only class that is demanding a nerf on ourselves along with all the retards out there.
Seriously, what's so hard to understand? Yes, paladins are very strong PvP-wise in PTR/3.0 since most of our core abilities only have one rank and are scaled for level 80 play. We won't get new ranks of Divine Storm or Crusader Strike in the expansion.
This is kind of frustrating.
Aren't many of these people bitching because of beta experience on 80?
I hate the paladin community so much. We must be the only class that is demanding a nerf on ourselves along with all the retards out there.
Seriously, what's so hard to understand? Yes, paladins are very strong PvP-wise in PTR/3.0 since most of our core abilities only have one rank and are scaled for level 80 play. We won't get new ranks of Divine Storm or Crusader Strike in the expansion.
This is kind of frustrating.
Aren't many of these people bitching because of beta experience on 80?
From what I've heard, paladins in the beta are fine. Most of the complaints seem to come from people that have not experience the game at 80, but through PTR which is capped at 70. Also most of the PvP complaints are from to 1v1s and BGs.
Infusion of Light -- now affects Flash of Light or Holy Light. Flash of Light is reduced to 0 cast time with 2 ranks, meaning that if you're running around and get a Holy Shock crit, you can also Flash without stopping.
BAM, the exact change I was looking for after the nerf.
Enlightened Judgements -- range benefit is now 30 yards with 2 ranks (was 20). This means you can judge or heal from the same range without having to run around so much.
Obviously meant to say 40 yards and 30 yards (EDIT: Duhr, misread this one, he meant the talent gives +30 with 2 ranks which = 40 in the end), another change I was looking for.
Righteous Defense -- cooldown lowered to 8 sec. It had been 10 sec recently and is 15 sec on live.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2008
No they got it right. Judge base range is 10 yards, so 10+30=40
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2008
Also, you forgot the best one:
Bacon of Light -- no change here, but I can never miss an opportunity to call it Bacon.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2008
If mordim was a silly RP'd character, I'd have him emote "BIBBITY BOBBITY BACON" with bacon of light procs.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2008
Uh, SEGUI works on a proc basis. That's what I meant.
Munkus Beaver on
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I'm biting my nails in anticipation of these ret changes.
Like, I know they are there, and I know they are coming, but i'm really scared to find out what they are going to be.
Also, where did you get those latest pally notes? I don't see them up on mmo-champ yet.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2008
use the MMO champ bluefinder
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
OMFG, the Righteous Defense change is amazing.
The 10 sec cooldown was nice, warriors get 8 seconds which bugged me a little but hell, if I can mnage with a 15 sec c/d on Live I can handle 10, but 8 is awesome. Going to be weird being able to taunt so often.
Anyone know if the 33% mana return on judgements of the wise is affected by the proc percentage? Meaning, the talent is 3 points with each point making it 33% more likely to have the replenishment affect occur so at 3 points it's every judgement. Does that effect the 33% mana return too or is that occur 100% of the time even at 1 point?
The only reason I ask is for leveling. If you get the 33% every time then you can put 1 point into the talent and move away from it until you need the other 2 points to move up the tiers. This frees up some points to get some damage talents earlier in your leveling up process.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
you need 3 ranks to get the 100% chance for both effects
Anyone know if the 33% mana return on judgements of the wise is affected by the proc percentage? Meaning, the talent is 3 points with each point making it 33% more likely to have the replenishment affect occur so at 3 points it's every judgement. Does that effect the 33% mana return too or is that occur 100% of the time even at 1 point?
The only reason I ask is for leveling. If you get the 33% every time then you can put 1 point into the talent and move away from it until you need the other 2 points to move up the tiers. This frees up some points to get some damage talents earlier in your leveling up process.
From the wording on the tooltip it sounds like both effects have a 33/66/100% chance depending on how many talent points are spent there, so you'd need 3/3 to guarantee yourself the 33% base mana return on every Judgement.
edit: or basicly what dhalphir said with alot less words
The people bitching about Paladins in general on the level 70 PTRs are as silly as the ones that did the same thing for TBC. We got Crusader Strike..............people cried...................it got changed. Blizzard eventually changed it back to what it was before. I would like to think that Blizzard learns from their mistakes, and ignores the silly people that haven't even seen what's going on with this game @ level 80.
Most of the classes can't even fully spec into their respective "good builds" until they start leveling up. That's one of a few reasons that Ret is so strong on the level 70 PTRs. The class doesn't need much more than that, while other classes are missing their talent points from 71-80 to go far enough down other trees to get their "goodies".
replace all variations of the word "silly" with "fucking ignorant" in the above statements to view true poster feelings.
But weren't rets doing like 5k dps on the level 80 naxx runs?
Or am I completely mixing it up?
I seriously do not call for nerfs or some shit like that, because I experience it first-hand on my warlock, as level 70 spells got nerfed for 60, then never reverted
Paladins were doing some pretty crazy DPS, but so were other classes. I'd also wager that the numbers you're talking about are from a little while ago, and would not reflect the changes made to Seal Damage changes. You're also talking about an instance that is comprised completely of mobs that are vulnerable to Exorcism and Holy Wrath. Just like in Karazhan, Ret Paladins will do higher overall damage than they would in a comparable non-undead/demon instance.
There's some parses floating around of damage being done by other classes in Naxx 10/25. Fairly recent too, if memory serves me. Most of these classes are pulling mid-range to high 3k numbers. These are over on the "live Beta" servers, where people are still mostly in Sunwell gear, and things that have been picked up on the road to 80.
Most healing classes are doing the DPS of SSC/TK level characters from back at 70. 1600-1700 DPS from Priests/Druids and Shaman is quite normal. Holy Paladins are actually GIMPED in this respect.
I hate the paladin community so much. We must be the only class that is demanding a nerf on ourselves along with all the retards out there.
Seriously, what's so hard to understand? Yes, paladins are very strong PvP-wise in PTR/3.0 since most of our core abilities only have one rank and are scaled for level 80 play. We won't get new ranks of Divine Storm or Crusader Strike in the expansion.
This is kind of frustrating.
Aren't many of these people bitching because of beta experience on 80?
As someone who hasn't played a palaind (at level 60) since... well, at least 2006 (or, read another way, my first level 60 character), what are these Ret changes? I ask because I *just* rolled another paladin (BE) and he's level 15, and I want to take him Ret just... well, because. Why is ret suddenly the new tits, and why are people crying nerf?
Because they've gone from truly pitiful to mostly pitiful and in the 3.0/beta, are going to be a viable raid DPSer and gained power in other areas as well (healing, pvp, utility,etc). It's such a slap in the face to a long proud tradition in the manner of lolret that a lot of people can't get over it.
Especially when an old hand ret pally smashes faces in PVP now the the skill they developed being gimpy is coupled with non-gimpiness.
But weren't rets doing like 5k dps on the level 80 naxx runs?
Or am I completely mixing it up?
I seriously do not call for nerfs or some shit like that, because I experience it first-hand on my warlock, as level 70 spells got nerfed for 60, then never reverted
Actually our PvE DPS output is lower than most other classes at 80. It's still comparable and very good, but by no means the end all be all DPS class at 80.
The request for the nerfbat isl coming from the PvP community, where even at 80 we are apparently incredibly hard to kill (except by mages), and can dish out some insane damage.
I remember being in the top 5 damage in and AV with most amount of KB's with the current Ret. (didn't happen all the time of course) I can't wait to run around in there as the new Ret.
I remember being in the top 5 damage in and AV with most amount of KB's with the current Ret. (didn't happen all the time of course) I can't wait to run around in there as the new Ret.
I really wish you weren't Alliance. It would be nice to have you join our Ret Paladin Rape Force.
What I love is killing undergeared tauren healing druids
Those dead cows look so sad, yet so silly somehow
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Because they've gone from truly pitiful to mostly pitiful and in the 3.0/beta, are going to be a viable raid DPSer and gained power in other areas as well (healing, pvp, utility,etc). It's such a slap in the face to a long proud tradition in the manner of lolret that a lot of people can't get over it.
Especially when an old hand ret pally smashes faces in PVP now they the skill they developed being gimpy is coupled with non-gimpiness.
I was playing AB the other day with a priest friend. We devastated the opposing side, completely rocked the other side.
I'm not a pushover on live, I can't wait for the patch.
Munkus Beaver on
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Rets who were properly geared never were pushovers
Basically, laugh about that green/blue ret all you want, but his big brother s4 ret will wipe that smile of your face faster than many deem possible
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
Yeah, well-geared Rets have always been a force to be reckoned with in PvP.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2008
Have you seen my paladin? I've got some pieces of S3 armor, but I'm using an S1 sword, shoulders, and accessories.
I'm a veritable force usually because of teamwork. Good healer, good support, appropos repents and bubbles.
Doing a repent on the opposing healer can turn the tide it can.
Munkus Beaver on
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Posts
BUT I LIKE SOLOING INSTANCES
1) Paladins only benefit from resilience when they have Hand of Salvation active on them.
2) Paladins deal -50% damage against targets that have resilience gear on them.
3) If the Paladin is wearing resilience gear, he can't cast heals.
Ta-dah!
From what I've heard, paladins in the beta are fine. Most of the complaints seem to come from people that have not experience the game at 80, but through PTR which is capped at 70. Also most of the PvP complaints are from to 1v1s and BGs.
BAM, the exact change I was looking for after the nerf.
Obviously meant to say 40 yards and 30 yards (EDIT: Duhr, misread this one, he meant the talent gives +30 with 2 ranks which = 40 in the end), another change I was looking for.
Didn't expect this one but, hey, what the hell.
No word on any Ret changes.
looking forward to going holy again
Yeah, I saw that after reading it 3 more times. I'm dum.
Like, I know they are there, and I know they are coming, but i'm really scared to find out what they are going to be.
Also, where did you get those latest pally notes? I don't see them up on mmo-champ yet.
The 10 sec cooldown was nice, warriors get 8 seconds which bugged me a little but hell, if I can mnage with a 15 sec c/d on Live I can handle 10, but 8 is awesome. Going to be weird being able to taunt so often.
The only reason I ask is for leveling. If you get the 33% every time then you can put 1 point into the talent and move away from it until you need the other 2 points to move up the tiers. This frees up some points to get some damage talents earlier in your leveling up process.
edit: or basicly what dhalphir said with alot less words
Most of the classes can't even fully spec into their respective "good builds" until they start leveling up. That's one of a few reasons that Ret is so strong on the level 70 PTRs. The class doesn't need much more than that, while other classes are missing their talent points from 71-80 to go far enough down other trees to get their "goodies".
replace all variations of the word "silly" with "fucking ignorant" in the above statements to view true poster feelings.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
Or am I completely mixing it up?
I seriously do not call for nerfs or some shit like that, because I experience it first-hand on my warlock, as level 70 spells got nerfed for 60, then never reverted
There's some parses floating around of damage being done by other classes in Naxx 10/25. Fairly recent too, if memory serves me. Most of these classes are pulling mid-range to high 3k numbers. These are over on the "live Beta" servers, where people are still mostly in Sunwell gear, and things that have been picked up on the road to 80.
Most healing classes are doing the DPS of SSC/TK level characters from back at 70. 1600-1700 DPS from Priests/Druids and Shaman is quite normal. Holy Paladins are actually GIMPED in this respect.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
As someone who hasn't played a palaind (at level 60) since... well, at least 2006 (or, read another way, my first level 60 character), what are these Ret changes? I ask because I *just* rolled another paladin (BE) and he's level 15, and I want to take him Ret just... well, because. Why is ret suddenly the new tits, and why are people crying nerf?
Especially when an old hand ret pally smashes faces in PVP now the the skill they developed being gimpy is coupled with non-gimpiness.
Actually our PvE DPS output is lower than most other classes at 80. It's still comparable and very good, but by no means the end all be all DPS class at 80.
The request for the nerfbat isl coming from the PvP community, where even at 80 we are apparently incredibly hard to kill (except by mages), and can dish out some insane damage.
I really wish you weren't Alliance. It would be nice to have you join our Ret Paladin Rape Force.
Those dead cows look so sad, yet so silly somehow
I was playing AB the other day with a priest friend. We devastated the opposing side, completely rocked the other side.
I'm not a pushover on live, I can't wait for the patch.
Basically, laugh about that green/blue ret all you want, but his big brother s4 ret will wipe that smile of your face faster than many deem possible
I'm a veritable force usually because of teamwork. Good healer, good support, appropos repents and bubbles.
Doing a repent on the opposing healer can turn the tide it can.
Until the dumbfuck hunter multishots the healer that is.