Yeah, but now you can try to sway their opinion with really flashy 51-point talents! Ambush something four times in a row! Get stuck in the sky box of The Oculus by Killing Spreeing an airborne mob!
That looks impressive, right? <.<
Kind of like how a friend of mine KS'd nightbane in his flight form then fell outside of the instance? that's impressive. My guild won't have to worry about me speccing sub based solely on the fact that I'm not going to clear out my shift+2 bar cause that's where all my non-combat stuff is and basically i have no room to move those to make a shadowdance barand i'm too lazy to macro the bar switch... plus i never really liked playing as sub
If they ever give us another free respec I'd like to try Shadowdance just once with a spec built entirely around the idea of one enormous burst and see what kind of numbers it actually puts out
but I'm not intrigued enough to actually pay gold to see this
I just love how Blizzard made a bunch of changes to all the classes so that "there won't be one specific way to spec to maximize the character." but i'm sure there's people already working on the best cookie-cutters out there. At least we have more than 1 viable spec even if I'm sure someone is hard at work so they can tell us what the one best spec is... I'm just waiting to see if my RLs come 80 read a website with the new "raid specs" on it and tell me i have to be point for point a certain spec... even though they haven't been playing the class and keeping up with the changes/mechanics/whatnot...
Rogues do one thing and one thing only in a raid: melee DPS. No other DPS is quite so pigeonholed, with the possible exception of mages. There are at least two kinds of warlocks you'll want in a raid, same with DPS druids and shamans for the unique debuffs and buffs that they bring.
Rogues don't have quite the utility of other DPS classes, when it comes to raiding. PvP-wise they're swiss army knives, but a raiding guild doesn't give a shit about the fact that you can stunlock something for 98 seconds straight as Sub.
Shadowdance, the one ability with even worse implimentation than HfB.
And the devs are clinging so fiercely to it, that's what's baffling to me. "But if you get a bunch of Ambushes off, that can really add up!"
Yeah, except when would you have an opportunity to fire off multiple ambushes in a row on something unless it's a raid boss, and if you're that deep into Subtlety, well, your raid output is sub-optimal at best and atrocious at worst.
I stand by my initial impression: decent idea, terrible functionality, terrible implementation.
HfB is all things awesome. So totally used to it, doesn't interrupt me anymore. The only time it ever goes down is if I'm in oh shit mode trying to survive/save healers
Man, why didn't anyone tell me that Mutilate is way more fun than sword spec?
Bwah?
People have been making that assertion for years at this point.
And recently it's moved up in the numbers to put out comparable (if not slightly superior) raid DPS.
Gotta say that combat swords with the SS glyph, however, is all kinds of fun, but I've been a combat whore since Molten Core, so that could just be me.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
HfB is all things awesome. So totally used to it, doesn't interrupt me anymore. The only time it ever goes down is if I'm in oh shit mode trying to survive/save healers
So are you telling me that constantly hearing that "whoosh" sound every 10 seconds that you refresh it isn't annoying at all?
HfB is all things awesome. So totally used to it, doesn't interrupt me anymore. The only time it ever goes down is if I'm in oh shit mode trying to survive/save healers
So are you telling me that constantly hearing that "whoosh" sound every 10 seconds that you refresh it isn't annoying at all?
Not compared to the sound it makes when it's 6 seconds from running out when my SpellReminder makes this terrible metallic sound so I can remember to recast it.
Where arc = Awesome Rating of Combat, and arm = Awesome Rating of Mutilate.
Clearly, Combat is exactly 25% as awesome as Mutilate.
IT'S ALL SO OBVIOUS NOW
uh... you sure about that math? i could be wrong i haven't had math in like 4 years but wouldn't that equation simplify down to
arc=arm/4 so you're saying that either combat is 4 times as awesome or that mut is so much mroe awesome that even divided by 4 it's still more awesome than combat?
Where arc = Awesome Rating of Combat, and arm = Awesome Rating of Mutilate.
Clearly, Combat is exactly 25% as awesome as Mutilate.
IT'S ALL SO OBVIOUS NOW
uh... you sure about that math? i could be wrong i haven't had math in like 4 years but wouldn't that equation simplify down to
arc=arm/4 so you're saying that either combat is 4 times as awesome or that mut is so much mroe awesome that even divided by 4 it's still more awesome than combat?
why am I questioning fake math?
Mutilate is 4x as awesome as Combat. So yes, divided by 4 it's just as awesome as combat....
If mutilate's awesome rating is 20, then combat's awesome rating would be... 5. Right?
no, he's got it right. But I can see why you think that way. You're seeing it as a statement like combat is 4times as awesome as mutilate, but he made it a math equation.
arc = arm/4 Move the 4 to make it a lil' easier-- multiply both sides by 4. so 4arc = arm as in it takes 4 awesome combat ratings to equal 1 awesome mutilate ratings.
Rogues do one thing and one thing only in a raid: melee DPS. No other DPS is quite so pigeonholed, with the possible exception of mages. There are at least two kinds of warlocks you'll want in a raid, same with DPS druids and shamans for the unique debuffs and buffs that they bring.
There is?
Warlocks don't bring any unique buffs/debuffs with their specs that I can think of, so if you want any for a specific spec, it's because you lack a boomkin, or an ele shaman, or whatever. Blizzard would probably say that's intentional.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Nothing brings 'unique' buffs to the table anymore. It's one of the reasons I'm considering hanging up my Enhancement Shaman in WotLK. As powerful as he is, I could probably just roll Death Knight and provide a lot of the same bonuses, while also having the versatility to spec into tanking.
Nothing brings 'unique' buffs to the table anymore. It's one of the reasons I'm considering hanging up my Enhancement Shaman in WotLK. As powerful as he is, I could probably just roll Death Knight and provide a lot of the same bonuses, while also having the versatility to spec into tanking.
Yeah, it's rare that a spec will bring something unique.
It's quite common for classes to bring something unique only their class can bring. Bloodlust, Blessing of Wisdom, Wrath of Air Totem, Fortitude, Kings, Judgements, etc, etc. On some of these, you can get the same effect out of someone else, but these things stack.
I'll agree (with the rogues on here) that Rogues do get kinda boned with this. There's not much their class brings to the table for the most part, besides their damage. Well, until they add another suppression room of course.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Nothing brings 'unique' buffs to the table anymore. It's one of the reasons I'm considering hanging up my Enhancement Shaman in WotLK. As powerful as he is, I could probably just roll Death Knight and provide a lot of the same bonuses, while also having the versatility to spec into tanking.
Not true at all. While many buffs / debuffs are similar or non-stacking, just as many retain their own unique edge to make them worthwhile.
There are many crit buffs, yes, but no others that give the health bonus of imp LotP. That and the awesome seal of light / whatever they have now is often enough to keep incidental damage merely annoying rather than outright lethal.
There is no replacement for Fortitude.
Or Mark of the Wild.
Or Kings.
Just because BoM means you no longer need to sweat BS doesn't mean that Auras are no longer useful, or DI, or BoP, or AI, or any other number of class or spec specific buffs.
Though I've got to say, if anything's made me want to finally end my rogue's reign as my "main" character, it's been the declaration that all classes should have essentially the same dps plateau.
A 5% edge over not having all the wonderful tools that make people swoon for group composition with hybrids, while remaining melee over the advantages of being ranged?
Thanks Blizzard. Tell you what, don't do me any favours, I think I've had enough.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
well i do get drums which are thankfully still useful or else i don't know how much more i could ignore having my profession without just outright dropping it if they stopped being worth it
Well, Rogues can bring Expose Armor if you don't have a warrior tank. The problem with that is, every other class that brings debuffs doesn't usually have to leave their normal rotation to keep the debuff up (usually), where rogues have to sacrifice a finisher to put up and keep up EA. No one wants to be the EA Bitch.
I have to sacrifice a curse. The effect is less harmful to my personal dps than EA is for a rogue, but it's still harmful.
I'm really curious on what Blizzard balances their numbers around, considering boomkin, for example, don't alter -anything- to put up their same exact debuff. And of course, for EA,...that's the same debuff as sunder, right? Yeah, sunder is just par for the course for a warrior.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
I have to sacrifice a curse. The effect is less harmful to my personal dps than EA is for a rogue, but it's still harmful.
I'm really curious on what Blizzard balances their numbers around, considering boomkin, for example, don't alter -anything- to put up their same exact debuff. And of course, for EA,...that's the same debuff as sunder, right? Yeah, sunder is just par for the course for a warrior.
Sunder is also built in to Devistate.
Allow me to talent into applying improved EA along with Ruptures so as to not waste combo points, and I'd be fine with it.
It would, however, probably be absurdly overpowered for PVP.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I have to sacrifice a curse. The effect is less harmful to my personal dps than EA is for a rogue, but it's still harmful.
I'm really curious on what Blizzard balances their numbers around, considering boomkin, for example, don't alter -anything- to put up their same exact debuff. And of course, for EA,...that's the same debuff as sunder, right? Yeah, sunder is just par for the course for a warrior.
Sunder is also built in to Devistate.
Allow me to talent into applying improved EA along with Ruptures so as to not waste combo points, and I'd be fine with it.
It would, however, probably be absurdly overpowered for PVP.
Could put something like that deep in the combat tree to keep pvp rogues from picking it up I guess.
I got tried to even trying to find groups on my rogue and started to use my mage for pve and I switched my rogue to pvp a few months ago. Sure I would love to dps in a 25 man every now and again, but I find that just sticking with pvp is bringing me much more enjoyment out of my rogue than when I was just about pve.
As for the people who want to pve on their rogue and all that jazz, well um...I've got nothin.
Though I've got to say, if anything's made me want to finally end my rogue's reign as my "main" character, it's been the declaration that all classes should have essentially the same dps plateau.
I have little sympathy for people that slaughter me in PvP based around them having an abundance of what my main lacks.
Do Rogues have it somewhat boring in raid DPS right now? Yeah. Is it going to feel a little unfair to them in WotLK? Maybe. We're not sure yet how all this will work out, or if Blizzard is going to change their mind along the way.
But look at it this way, you might not have the most interesting jobs in boss fights, but you own face in battlegrounds and Arenas. You're also going to me much more useful in trash clearing with the added classes of creatures that you can now Sap. I don't know how it went for you, but back in the day it was a bitch to find enough good Mages to CC through Al'ar's trash.
I have little sympathy for people that slaughter me in PvP based around them having an abundance of what my main lacks.
Do Rogues have it somewhat boring in raid DPS right now? Yeah. Is it going to feel a little unfair to them in WotLK? Maybe. We're not sure yet how all this will work out, or if Blizzard is going to change their mind along the way.
But look at it this way, you might not have the most interesting jobs in boss fights, but you own face in battlegrounds and Arenas. You're also going to me much more useful in trash clearing with the added classes of creatures that you can now Sap. I don't know how it went for you, but back in the day it was a bitch to find enough good Mages to CC through Al'ar's trash.
No, I really don't think Forar's owns in PVP.
...for the simple little thing that I don't think he PVPs at all.
(Forar shall have to correct me if he's a PVP god and I just didn't know it...)
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
No, End, that's right. I BG now and then, but I've come to loathe the arenas with a passion.
Which is something of a pet peeve of mine; being shit on for something I take no part in. It's more than the difference between a difference in playstyle like being a hybrid allows (healing/tanking to fill in where needed/necessary) rather than being told your class isn't welcome here, go back to ganking and spec'ing subtlety and raping people in arenas, you ganking ganker fuckwit camping ass shit!
Yes, I get it, people hate on rogues for their actions on other server types and for being douchebags that the advantage of stealth grants them. That's not me. That's never been me. I play on a PVE server and rarely gank anyone who isn't being a gigantic asshole in the first place (and that's only an option if they happen to be a flagged asshole who is also Horde; ie; I wish I could gank other Alliance more often than not).
Being arena face-rape given human form does me little good if I want to raid.
And I don't find it boring. I find Blizzard's personally stated goal to normalize dps and give dps classes a 5% token edge insulting. Unless they intend to make T8/T9 and beyond a series of Brutallus style EVERYONE MUST TO XXXX DPS OR WE ALL WIPE AND ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD style encounters, as a raid leader I'd be hard pressed to bring me for any reason other than I'm a swell guy. And when you're trying to fit 45 swell guys and gals into 25 raid slots, some of 'em get to sit. And when a bunch of them bring very little to the table, they might just have to sit a lot over the other swell guys and gals that do bring awesome things to the table.
PS: Class'ism is almost as funny as Faction'ism. You should know better by now.
Edit: And you didn't even play pre-TBC? Dac. Buddy. Seriously.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I guess I'm just a WoW Outsider because I don't see what the problem is with Rogues getting a 5% edge on everyone else.
I mean, sure, my Shaman has 'flexibility', but that doesn't mean people bring me along because I can toss out heals or anything like that. They bring me along for damage and filling buff holes that aren't covered by DKs/Hunters.
Posts
but I'm not intrigued enough to actually pay gold to see this
Rogues do one thing and one thing only in a raid: melee DPS. No other DPS is quite so pigeonholed, with the possible exception of mages. There are at least two kinds of warlocks you'll want in a raid, same with DPS druids and shamans for the unique debuffs and buffs that they bring.
Rogues don't have quite the utility of other DPS classes, when it comes to raiding. PvP-wise they're swiss army knives, but a raiding guild doesn't give a shit about the fact that you can stunlock something for 98 seconds straight as Sub.
Because it won the prize for most fucking annoying mechanic ever.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Yeah, except when would you have an opportunity to fire off multiple ambushes in a row on something unless it's a raid boss, and if you're that deep into Subtlety, well, your raid output is sub-optimal at best and atrocious at worst.
I stand by my initial impression: decent idea, terrible functionality, terrible implementation.
B.net: Kusanku
Bwah?
People have been making that assertion for years at this point.
And recently it's moved up in the numbers to put out comparable (if not slightly superior) raid DPS.
Gotta say that combat swords with the SS glyph, however, is all kinds of fun, but I've been a combat whore since Molten Core, so that could just be me.
arc=arm/√16
Where arc = Awesome Rating of Combat, and arm = Awesome Rating of Mutilate.
Clearly, Combat is exactly 25% as awesome as Mutilate.
So are you telling me that constantly hearing that "whoosh" sound every 10 seconds that you refresh it isn't annoying at all?
Not compared to the sound it makes when it's 6 seconds from running out when my SpellReminder makes this terrible metallic sound so I can remember to recast it.
B.net: Kusanku
IT'S ALL SO OBVIOUS NOW
uh... you sure about that math? i could be wrong i haven't had math in like 4 years but wouldn't that equation simplify down to
arc=arm/4 so you're saying that either combat is 4 times as awesome or that mut is so much mroe awesome that even divided by 4 it's still more awesome than combat?
why am I questioning fake math?
Mutilate is 4x as awesome as Combat. So yes, divided by 4 it's just as awesome as combat....
If mutilate's awesome rating is 20, then combat's awesome rating would be... 5. Right?
I have no idea.
arc = arm/4 Move the 4 to make it a lil' easier-- multiply both sides by 4. so 4arc = arm as in it takes 4 awesome combat ratings to equal 1 awesome mutilate ratings.
B.net: Kusanku
no u
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
There is?
Warlocks don't bring any unique buffs/debuffs with their specs that I can think of, so if you want any for a specific spec, it's because you lack a boomkin, or an ele shaman, or whatever. Blizzard would probably say that's intentional.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Yeah, it's rare that a spec will bring something unique.
It's quite common for classes to bring something unique only their class can bring. Bloodlust, Blessing of Wisdom, Wrath of Air Totem, Fortitude, Kings, Judgements, etc, etc. On some of these, you can get the same effect out of someone else, but these things stack.
I'll agree (with the rogues on here) that Rogues do get kinda boned with this. There's not much their class brings to the table for the most part, besides their damage. Well, until they add another suppression room of course.
Not true at all. While many buffs / debuffs are similar or non-stacking, just as many retain their own unique edge to make them worthwhile.
There are many crit buffs, yes, but no others that give the health bonus of imp LotP. That and the awesome seal of light / whatever they have now is often enough to keep incidental damage merely annoying rather than outright lethal.
There is no replacement for Fortitude.
Or Mark of the Wild.
Or Kings.
Just because BoM means you no longer need to sweat BS doesn't mean that Auras are no longer useful, or DI, or BoP, or AI, or any other number of class or spec specific buffs.
Though I've got to say, if anything's made me want to finally end my rogue's reign as my "main" character, it's been the declaration that all classes should have essentially the same dps plateau.
A 5% edge over not having all the wonderful tools that make people swoon for group composition with hybrids, while remaining melee over the advantages of being ranged?
Thanks Blizzard. Tell you what, don't do me any favours, I think I've had enough.
I'm really curious on what Blizzard balances their numbers around, considering boomkin, for example, don't alter -anything- to put up their same exact debuff. And of course, for EA,...that's the same debuff as sunder, right? Yeah, sunder is just par for the course for a warrior.
Sunder is also built in to Devistate.
Allow me to talent into applying improved EA along with Ruptures so as to not waste combo points, and I'd be fine with it.
It would, however, probably be absurdly overpowered for PVP.
Could put something like that deep in the combat tree to keep pvp rogues from picking it up I guess.
I got tried to even trying to find groups on my rogue and started to use my mage for pve and I switched my rogue to pvp a few months ago. Sure I would love to dps in a 25 man every now and again, but I find that just sticking with pvp is bringing me much more enjoyment out of my rogue than when I was just about pve.
As for the people who want to pve on their rogue and all that jazz, well um...I've got nothin.
I have little sympathy for people that slaughter me in PvP based around them having an abundance of what my main lacks.
Do Rogues have it somewhat boring in raid DPS right now? Yeah. Is it going to feel a little unfair to them in WotLK? Maybe. We're not sure yet how all this will work out, or if Blizzard is going to change their mind along the way.
But look at it this way, you might not have the most interesting jobs in boss fights, but you own face in battlegrounds and Arenas. You're also going to me much more useful in trash clearing with the added classes of creatures that you can now Sap. I don't know how it went for you, but back in the day it was a bitch to find enough good Mages to CC through Al'ar's trash.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
No, I really don't think Forar's owns in PVP.
...for the simple little thing that I don't think he PVPs at all.
(Forar shall have to correct me if he's a PVP god and I just didn't know it...)
Which is something of a pet peeve of mine; being shit on for something I take no part in. It's more than the difference between a difference in playstyle like being a hybrid allows (healing/tanking to fill in where needed/necessary) rather than being told your class isn't welcome here, go back to ganking and spec'ing subtlety and raping people in arenas, you ganking ganker fuckwit camping ass shit!
Yes, I get it, people hate on rogues for their actions on other server types and for being douchebags that the advantage of stealth grants them. That's not me. That's never been me. I play on a PVE server and rarely gank anyone who isn't being a gigantic asshole in the first place (and that's only an option if they happen to be a flagged asshole who is also Horde; ie; I wish I could gank other Alliance more often than not).
Being arena face-rape given human form does me little good if I want to raid.
And I don't find it boring. I find Blizzard's personally stated goal to normalize dps and give dps classes a 5% token edge insulting. Unless they intend to make T8/T9 and beyond a series of Brutallus style EVERYONE MUST TO XXXX DPS OR WE ALL WIPE AND ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD style encounters, as a raid leader I'd be hard pressed to bring me for any reason other than I'm a swell guy. And when you're trying to fit 45 swell guys and gals into 25 raid slots, some of 'em get to sit. And when a bunch of them bring very little to the table, they might just have to sit a lot over the other swell guys and gals that do bring awesome things to the table.
PS: Class'ism is almost as funny as Faction'ism. You should know better by now.
Edit: And you didn't even play pre-TBC? Dac. Buddy. Seriously.
I mean, sure, my Shaman has 'flexibility', but that doesn't mean people bring me along because I can toss out heals or anything like that. They bring me along for damage and filling buff holes that aren't covered by DKs/Hunters.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow