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[WoW] Rogues - Or how I stopped worrying and learned to facestab

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Posts

  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Ok, bought the Venerable Dal'Rends Blade or whatever it's called, and slapped Crusader on it. Level 6 rogue, what's the best way to twink myself out for leveling?

    Rizzi on
  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    reVerse wrote: »
    Yes, you have to kill him before the timer is up, otherwise he just jumps into a portal and disappears.
    That is... that's incredibly gay.

    Senshi on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Senshi wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Yes, you have to kill him before the timer is up, otherwise he just jumps into a portal and disappears.
    That is... that's incredibly gay.

    I got him to 10% last night and he ran away. Swearing was involved.

    Rizzi on
  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So what is the optimum combat/swords talent spec pre 3.1?

    Esh on
  • AresProphetAresProphet Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Rizzi wrote: »
    Senshi wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Yes, you have to kill him before the timer is up, otherwise he just jumps into a portal and disappears.
    That is... that's incredibly gay.

    I got him to 10% last night and he ran away. Swearing was involved.

    I was in a pug where we got up to the corruptor with a little over 3 minutes left. Plenty of time for us to kill him, but only because I was outdoing the other DPS 2 to 1.

    We were standing there and just about pulled when we realized the shaman healer wasn't with us. She was at Mal'Ganis. She engaged him alongside Arthas thinking we were right behind her. She asked, "where are you guys?"

    She thought you had to beat Mal'Ganis within 25 minutes, you see. She died and reincarnated and ran back to us, but the corruptor got away with about 25% left.

    Lucky for me I went with a group that was all guildies and one pug (me) that got it right the next day and I got the drake, which I will never use because I'm a druid.

    AresProphet on
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  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    ...and could someone give my build/gear/enchants/gems a once over for me? Thanks!

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Uldum&n=Ruriko

    Esh on
  • AresProphetAresProphet Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Esh wrote: »
    ...and could someone give my build/gear/enchants/gems a once over for me? Thanks!

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Uldum&n=Ruriko

    I believe the belt from heroic UK is better than Jorachs, but you're expertise capped so probably not in your case.

    You'd be better off replacing one of your blue gems (you have three) with a 32AP gem, probably on your belt. 16 AP > 4 agi.

    With leatherworking you have access to the 114 AP once you get to 400 skill, start working on that. It is a terrible, terrible grind though. If you're levelling one profession strictly for the personal stat bonus the easiest to get to 400 is alchemy (longer/stronger flask) and the most useful is JC but not by that much.

    I think Swords are inferior in a combat build right now to a fist/dagger spec but I don't know a lot about that.

    AresProphet on
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  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Esh wrote: »
    ...and could someone give my build/gear/enchants/gems a once over for me? Thanks!

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Uldum&n=Ruriko

    I believe the belt from heroic UK is better than Jorachs, but you're expertise capped so probably not in your case.

    You'd be better off replacing one of your blue gems (you have three) with a 32AP gem, probably on your belt. 16 AP > 4 agi.

    With leatherworking you have access to the 114 AP once you get to 400 skill, start working on that. It is a terrible, terrible grind though. If you're levelling one profession strictly for the personal stat bonus the easiest to get to 400 is alchemy (longer/stronger flask) and the most useful is JC but not by that much.

    I think Swords are inferior in a combat build right now to a fist/dagger spec but I don't know a lot about that.

    I'll swap out a blue gem. That's not a bad idea. Shadowpanther.net ranks the Croc belt higher than the UK one, and I had a bunch of spare Emblems sitting around, so...

    Leatherworking was something I was thinking about doing then decided I'd rather jab a fork in my eye.

    Esh on
  • AresProphetAresProphet Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Esh wrote: »
    I'll swap out a blue gem. That's not a bad idea. Shadowpanther.net ranks the Croc belt higher than the UK one, and I had a bunch of spare Emblems sitting around, so...

    Jorachs offers more crit, Sharp-Barbed offers more AP and expertise. If you can use a couple of expertise points to manage upgrades in other slots it might be worth it, but you're going to have to look at your set as a whole and it's more difficult than saying "x is better than y".
    Leatherworking was something I was thinking about doing then decided I'd rather jab a fork in my eye.

    If you do want a stat-oriented profession Alchemy is your best bet. The DPS trinket (100 AP 50 crit) is spectacular if you can hit-cap on other items so you don't need the Sphere, and the benefit from flasks makes a huge difference. It's also stupidly easy/cheap to level up, about 1k in herbs (depending on server prices) should get you to 400. And if you do herbalism yourself you've got a better moneymaker than skinning.

    AresProphet on
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  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Senshi wrote: »
    Gentlemen. I downed Mal'Ganis today (after we were like 30 seconds away from the Corruptor WRYYYYYYYY), and Greed dropped. I needed, thinking it'd be nice to have something for 3.1. Friend of mine has Namlak's Supernumerary Sticker, and he's willing to give/sell it to me.

    I'll probably be going Combat in 3.1 due to assassination getting the assfuck treatment--is that a good pairing for starting out? Should I start leveling my Unarmed?
    Hate to have to repost, but seriously, is a Slow/Fast fist/dagger combo for Combat come 3.1 good? Y/N?

    I'm assuming it'll be back to Instant/Deadly, too, I was thinking with this build.

    Senshi on
  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I believe I read that fist/dagger slow/fast was the currently accepted combo, though you could do quite a bit better than that Supernumary Sticker. Frankly I still don't know why they haven't itemized its stats better, the damned thing's practically schizophrenic. That said, unless it's forced upon you and you're obligated not to sell it yourself, I'd advise against that dagger. Hell, get an LPC at least until you hit up Naxx 10/25.

    Halfmex on
  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Got two of 'em :3

    Good to know that I'm practically good to go!

    Senshi on
  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    What's the recommended Rogue raiding food for someone who has a 355 Hit Rating already?

    Esh on
  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    expertise

    mastman on
    ByalIX8.png
    B.net: Kusanku
  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    mastman wrote: »
    expertise

    Capped.

    Esh on
  • HerothHeroth Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Esh wrote: »
    mastman wrote: »
    expertise

    Capped.

    80 ap then.

    Heroth on
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  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Heroth wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    mastman wrote: »
    expertise

    Capped.

    80 ap then.

    I figured that or the Haste food. Thanks!

    Esh on
  • ToldoToldo But actually, WeegianRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Is Greed really better than Crimson Steel as a MH?

    Toldo on
  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Crimson Steel is certainly more badass. It also has +hit!

    Senshi on
  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Here are the Rogue changes for the newest PTR build:
    Combat

    * Feint tooltip has been changed to "reduces the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 50% for 6 sec." (Didn't have the duration before)

    Assassination

    * Master Poisoner now also increases the bonus chance to apply Deadly Poison when Envenom is used by an additional 15/34/50%.
    And the crowd goes mild.

    I'm finding myself less and less encouraged that we'll see some nice Assassination changes before this patch hits.

    Halfmex on
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Bleeeeh. Shoulda just merged the glyph in with the talent instead of this stupid proc boost.

    Our T8 set bonuses are poorly designed too (in that, ironically, they are too strong). Especially the 4 piece -- allowing rupture to crit should be default or talented, not item based.

    Tag on
    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yeah it seems like too much of a mechanical upgrade, as opposed to purely augmenting abilities.

    Javen on
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    and big changes in the last few months? i sorta slowed down a whole lot on the playing time when my guild transferred

    initiatefailure on
  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dear Rogues,

    With the coming PPM poison changes, what's the point of ever using anything fast again if you're specced Combat? I can think of no reasons. In fact, I can think of several good reasons to use slow-ass motherfucking weapons: Killing Spree.

    Sincerely,
    Senshi

    Senshi on
  • AresProphetAresProphet Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Combat Potency

    AresProphet on
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  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    goddamn it i knew i was missing something

    Senshi on
  • AresProphetAresProphet Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Senshi wrote: »
    goddamn it i knew i was missing something

    I do that all the time.

    AresProphet on
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  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    fuck and I was so psyched about two high-damage weapons attacking five targets .5 secs after eachother

    do you know how badass that would be

    Senshi on
  • HerothHeroth Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Senshi wrote: »
    fuck and I was so psyched about two high-damage weapons attacking five targets .5 secs after eachother

    do you know how badass that would be

    Weapon swap macro?

    Heroth on
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  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    it's just not the same :(

    Senshi on
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Plus weapon swapping would cost 2 swing timer resets.

    On the plus side, the difference isn't so bad. Assuming PvE (since combat PvP has different considerations and isn't a serious PvP spec anyway) Comparing Silent Crusader (2.5, 391.5 avg dam) to Hailstorm (1.5, 317 avg dam) with 5000 AP (+892 to SC, +535 to HS). So SC is 1283.5 and HS is 852. Then add in OH penalty (963 vs. 639) and, say, a 20% armor reduction (770 vs. 511) and you've only got a 260 damage per hit difference between the best OH sword and the best MH sword (using CG throws in an improved ilvl so its not really fair).

    So the difference to KS is only ~1300, which sounds like a lot but is only 11 DPS overall.

    Edit: although this fails to take into account the new poison PPM system. But even being silly and assuming 100% crit (2600) 1400 in poison (4000) its still only 33 DPS difference. 33 when you're doing 4500-5000 DPS is pretty trivial -- basically lost to background noise.

    Tag on
    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I love everything Tag posts

    Senshi on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I hate Mutilate.

    Does this make me a bad Rogue?

    Because I really just hate it.

    reVerse on
  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Nah, Mut's not for everyone. In its purest form (that is, before Hunger for Blood was ever a gleam in some drunken developer's eye), Mutilate was my favorite talent for rogues. Still is, really. For me, a rogue just isn't a rogue if he/she's wielding anything other than daggers. Huge swords and ginormous fist weapons don't scream out "stealthy killer" to me. But that's just my take on it. Other rogues eat, sleep and breathe Combat, so the big heavy hitters are more their style, which is fine too.

    Now, if you loved daggers but hated Mutilate such that you started Sinister Striking with them? Then yeah, that'd make you a bad rogue.

    Halfmex on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Aw hell no, son. I aint that bad.

    reVerse on
  • chinooscarchinooscar Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Well, finally got Calamity's Grasp to go with Murder, so I happily went and put Berserker on both and specced combat fist/dagger.

    Fuck, after being Mutilate since the expansion, it felt so freaking sluggish, was having a hell of a time keeping up with energy regen, etc.

    I was going with Calamity MH (Wound Poison) and Murder OH (Instant Poison). Specced for Imp. Eviscerate and Rupture. Skipped that talent that give you 60% chance of combo point on your finishers (forgot the name), but did get 5/5 Relentless Assault. In retrospect, I should be using Deadly in one of them, to get the extra damage from having target poisoned. I am thinking Deadly MH, Wound OH

    At any rate, DPS was WAY down from my sluggish first attempts at the heroic dummy (compared to the assassination Shiv build). I tried to keep a 5 SnD, 5 Rupture and 5 Evis rotation going with very little success. I had to basically cut down Rupture to about 3 or 4 max.

    Assassination Shiv Build - Murder MH / LPC OH, both instant poison - 2500 DPS at dummy
    Combat Fist / Dagger - 1600 DPS at dummy.

    AP - 3650 unbuffed
    Hit - 367 (new weapons put me over - got murder last week too)
    Crit - 32% withouth raid buffs
    Expertise - 28/28 (just from gear, so can't regem)


    Any suggestions?

    chinooscar on
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Senshi wrote: »
    I love everything Tag posts

    Hehe ty ^^


    @Chino
    Couple things:
    Wound poison will activate the debuff, so don't worry about DP if its lower dps (which I think it is at the moment, but I'm assassination so I'm not certain).

    Also, most combat rogues don't go 5/5/5. I think most only do 3-4 point SnDs and 4-5 point eviserates depending on their gear (our combat rogue does 3s/5r/4-5e I think).

    Combat is always a little sluggish compared to mut I think, but it has the cooldowns to make up for it.

    @ Halfmex
    Hehe I agreed with this position before I started raiding, but since we never seem to get to stealth in raid I look at the rogue more like a crazy berserker! Plus as a dwarf the daggers are the size of my leg anyway ;P I would looove a more "assassiny" role/feel in PvE though, kinda like the CoV stalker or something. Alas, PvP always interferes.

    Tag on
    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Senshi wrote: »
    goddamn it i knew i was missing something

    I do that all the time.
    Liar.

    chino: I'm curious in what way you consider Combat "sluggish." I guess I could see CP generation, but compared to the other specs it actually has the best energy regeneration (with raid buffs, Vitality and Combat Potency should be increasing your average energy generation by about 50% above base), and with a 40 energy main attack, you're probably pushing a button at least as often as mutilate rogues. I guess if you're comparing it to a 34 energy main attack spamming build, then I could understand that, but I'd think about anything would feel sluggish compared to that.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm bored of Mutilate, are Sub Hemo builds any good these days? I miss my old BC Hemo days.

    Maybe something like this?

    Wavechaser on
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    forty wrote: »
    Senshi wrote: »
    goddamn it i knew i was missing something

    I do that all the time.
    Liar.

    chino: I'm curious in what way you consider Combat "sluggish." I guess I could see CP generation, but compared to the other specs it actually has the best energy regeneration (with raid buffs, Vitality and Combat Potency should be increasing your average energy generation by about 50% above base), and with a 40 energy main attack, you're probably pushing a button at least as often as mutilate rogues. I guess if you're comparing it to a 34 energy main attack spamming build, then I could understand that, but I'd think about anything would feel sluggish compared to that.

    I don't know about Chino, but the reason I find it sluggish is that, while combat presses buttons faster, it paradoxically completes cycles more slowly. This is especially true with CttC since it removes the most "passive" finisher.

    Shiv-assassin is the best of both worlds though ;) I'm gonna miss it when its gone.

    Tag on
    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
This discussion has been closed.