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ROUND TWO: FIGHT D: RESULTS

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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I just want to emphasize that Blink thinks really fast. In one of her first badass moments, Holocaust had his energy blasting arm pressed against her head while she had one of her spikes against him. Blink ported him into a vat of acid before he had time to shoot. And then there's Hyperion, who shot at her with eye lasers from like 3 feet away, and she still managed to open a portal between them between the moment Hyperion fired and when the lasers would've hit her.


    I think there's a good chance she could surprise Jay with a portal, either by porting him somewhere (like out of bounds), or porting something onto him.

    Scooter on
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    CharmyCharmy Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Sentry wrote:
    Easy to see where he has been. The trail is behind him, which with someone like a Flash (yes, even Jay) pretty much means shit.

    Yeah, it means shit if he could stop and turn on a dime. But I doubt even the flash can do that...

    As far as I know, The Flash has always been portrayed as being able to change his direction pretty much at any time. I can't recall any case where momentum has ever been a problem for him.

    Anyone know otherwise?

    EDIT: Though, in light of Scooter's comments, it might not matter. I still give The Flash the edge over Kitty and Vision, though.

    Charmy on
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    SpaceDrakeSpaceDrake Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    To help settle the earlier argument, I'll point out that we used a nerfed Juggernaut as well.

    SpaceDrake on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Well, this is Jay without the speed force, so his max speed is mach 1, and he should have to deal with inertia without the speed force to negate it.
    Also, when Blink did the teleporting full of sand trick, she did it to someone super tough, not someone intangible. The whole pointof intangibility is that you can exist in the same space as other physical objects without harm, so I think teleporting sand into the space a phased person is in wouldn't have any effect.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    Well, this is Jay without the speed force, so his max speed is mach 1, and he should have to deal with inertia without the speed force to negate it.
    Also, when Blink did the teleporting full of sand trick, she did it to someone super tough, not someone intangible. The whole pointof intangibility is that you can exist in the same space as other physical objects without harm, so I think teleporting sand into the space a phased person is in wouldn't have any effect.

    Oh yea, was gonna mention that. Hyperion's not intangible, so filling him with sand has no bearing on whether or not Blink can mess with phased people or not.

    Scooter on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    well... is there a difference between Kitty's intangibility and Visions? I know he decreases his density to the point where he becomes intangible, but he's essentially still there. Couldn't Blink just port him out of bounds?

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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Well, she creates portals, right? As far as I know, she still tosses energy shards or whatever to teleport people who won't walk into one of her portals. So while Kitty or Vision could certainly still be teleported, I don't know if Blink could hit them with the portal generator.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    Well, this is Jay without the speed force, so his max speed is mach 1, and he should have to deal with inertia without the speed force to negate it.
    Also, when Blink did the teleporting full of sand trick, she did it to someone super tough, not someone intangible. The whole pointof intangibility is that you can exist in the same space as other physical objects without harm, so I think teleporting sand into the space a phased person is in wouldn't have any effect.

    Oh yea, was gonna mention that. Hyperion's not intangible, so filling him with sand has no bearing on whether or not Blink can mess with phased people or not.

    Hyperion was actually vibrating his own molecules at near-lightspeed, effectively making himself intangible.

    Spectre-x on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    Well, she creates portals, right? As far as I know, she still tosses energy shards or whatever to teleport people who won't walk into one of her portals. So while Kitty or Vision could certainly still be teleported, I don't know if Blink could hit them with the portal generator.
    She can do like an area of effect portal or something.

    I mean she can transport energy. Energy isn't really tangible.

    Theow the spike at their feet, oped a 10 foot portal or something.

    deadonthestreet on
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    AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I think The Flash would beat Blink.

    As for Vision and Shadowcat, though...it all depends on if Shadowcat would mess up Vision. Personally I think if her powers do effect him they would only do so in a minor way.

    I have to give this round to Vision with Flash taking second.

    Accualt on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Okay, I just looked at the Exiles issue Spectre's talking about- 1. He's vibrating to avoid being teleported, there's no indication that he's intangible, and 2. by the time she does the sand trick, it no longer looks like he's vibrating. I see him vibrating to avoid her teleport trick, then her turning around to toss an energy shard at the sand dune, with him in the background, not distorted in the way the previous panel used to make him look like he's vibrating. Then he gets filled up with sand.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    That sand trick only worked because he was vibrating. And he was intagible, because her energy stick thing went right through him.

    Spectre-x on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Those aren't physical, and where do you get the idea that it only woked because he was vibrating? Further, why is vibrating superfast the same as decreasing density?
    Edit: I should say that there's no indication I've seen that her teleport spike things are physical, since she stopped carrying the back of metal spikes in AOA. They seem to just be energy shards now, not physical at all.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I think Blink herself mentioned it right after filling Hyperion up with sand. I could be mistaken, though.

    And her spikes are physical. At least, they have to be able to hit something properly.

    And vibrating your molecules superfast, at least in the way Hyperion did, makes you intangible because your atoms move between the gaps in other atoms. Believe it or not, you're mostly empty space between protons, neutrons and electrons. Vision and Kitty's powers work pretty much the same way, only it's not superspeed-derived. At least not in exactly the same way, but their powers are basically the same thing that Hyperion did.

    Spectre-x on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Okay, I have the issue in front of me, and two things stand out: no one says anything about the sand trick only working because he's vibrating, and no one else tries to hit him while he's vibrating. This is important, because there's no indication that his vibration mimics intangibility in this case. Vibrating superfast is comic book science for "do whatever, basically", so it's just as likely that his vibration is canceling out her teleportation energy or something silly as it is that he's turning intangible. I have to stand by the idea that teleporting molecules of sand into a body which is spread out to avoid contacting other material will hurt it no more than walking through a wall does.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I'm actually fairly certain that it made him intangible, but whatever, it might be a different kind of intangibility.

    Spectre-x on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    Couldn't blink teleport a lot of the monsters from monters island around the other contestants?

    Munkus Beaver on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Couldn't blink teleport a lot of the monsters from monters island around the other contestants?
    Sure!

    deadonthestreet on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    She could, but what would they do? One guy runs away before the monsters know what's going on, the other two can't be touched by the monsters. And if Blink teleported a monster near the Baxter building and it killed some people, she might be disqualified.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    She could, but what would they do? One guy runs away before the monsters know what's going on, the other two can't be touched by the monsters. And if Blink teleported a monster near the Baxter building and it killed some people, she might be disqualified.

    Oh please, the Baxter Building is like a Giant Monster focus point or something. Still, I think Blink and Kitty could do this.

    Fencingsax on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    I think a couple of monsters are enough to distract the Flash, especially given how the lack of flat terrain is going to impede any speedster.

    Same with Vision and Shadowcat, they can go intagible, but they can't stay that way indefinitely. It wears them out.

    Munkus Beaver on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Shadowcats powers disrupt computers and things like that. Vision is the creation of Ultron who was created by Ant-Man and The Wasp. So as far as I can understand Vision is a very advanced robot/synthoid, but he's not some alien technology or anything like that. So would'nt Shadowcat really mess him up if she phased through him?

    Marathon on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Wikipedia gives no indication that Vision gets tired from phasing, though Kitty does. Also, it says Vision is close enough to human to be affected by telepathy, which doesn't matter this round, but might have last round. Whoops. Also, it seems that even if Vision is phased, Kitty can disrupt him, since it seems she disrupts electric fields instead of actual circuitry (again, Wikipedia).

    Adaemus1sf on
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    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I'd have to say Jay might have this one. It's all a matter of how smart his opponents are.

    As a flash, it's not just that he moves at super speeds, they can also adjust their perception of time. All he has to do is wait for Kitty or Vision to become tangible for a second, and he can stretch that into hours if need be.

    The catch is, how much does this wear him out? Kitty would probably have to drop the intangibility first, but Vision, being mechanical, might be able to keep it up much longer. If he realizes he can just wait Jay out, he'll just stay that way.

    Ok, my prediction, Kitty and Jay team up. Kitty takes out Vision, then keeps Blink distracted so Jay can knock her out before she teleports.

    MuddBudd on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited October 2006
    Why are you saying this environment would ruin Jay?

    If anything, it works out better for him because he can easily duck behind stuff or what have you. He still thinks faster than everyone here (I believe)

    Garlic Bread on
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    Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Keith wrote:
    Why are you saying this environment would ruin Jay?

    If anything, it works out better for him because he can easily duck behind stuff or what have you. He still thinks faster than everyone here (I believe)

    Right, he has the reflexes to match his speed. After all, he'd have to. Without them, he would have died day one in the 40's. Splat.

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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Yeah, not being able to see Jay coming gives him quite a leg up, but I doubt the vision at least will ever be tangible until he starts working in the Baxter Building, which has defenses that can keep Jay out. Either of the other two have just as much chance to sneak up on Jay as he has on them, maybe more since they're more used to stealth. But the ability to walk around a tree, unuexpectedly encounter an opponent, and then hit them several times at the speed of sound before they react, is pretty good. Also, can Jay make sonic booms, if he can hit the speed of sound and no longer has the speed force? I wonder what shock waves would do to intangible people.
    edit: Probably nothing, since a shock wave would probably be like a spread out optic blast from cyclops, and I don't recall those having an effect.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Keith wrote:
    Why are you saying this environment would ruin Jay?

    If anything, it works out better for him because he can easily duck behind stuff or what have you. He still thinks faster than everyone here (I believe)

    It is gonna be hard for him to work up to Full speed though. I think the enviornment here is designed to be pretty anti-flash. At the very least it will tire him out more.

    But you're right, it also gives him more places to hide. In fact, if he can wait for Kitty to take out Vision, he could sweep the whole thing. (I still think Vision would be the hardest for him to take down).

    He also has one other advantage here, as the only DC character. The Marvel folks all know each other (or of each other) and are more likely to quickly form plans based on what they know. (i.e. Kitty knows she can take out vision so will probably go after him first)

    Another thought, Blink's energy shards, do they make a portal the instant anything touches them? Or could Jay grab one out of mid-air and use it against someone else?

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Blink's spikes mostly seem to exist to look cool. Sometimes whatever they hit gets ported, but other times Blink can just make portals without needing them at all. I don't think they've ever spelled out exactly what it is they do.

    Scooter on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    guys you have to face facts that vision dies in almost every battle ever

    if the phasing idea really worked, he would have used it to not get blown up all the goddamn time

    Servo on
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    AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Servo wrote:
    guys you have to face facts that vision dies in almost every battle ever

    if the phasing idea really worked, he would have used it to not get blown up all the goddamn time

    :lol:

    Accualt on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Servo wrote:
    guys you have to face facts that vision dies in almost every battle ever

    if the phasing idea really worked, he would have used it to not get blown up all the goddamn time

    The Vision and Red Tornado should have a "who gets blown the fuck up the most"-off.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Servo wrote:
    guys you have to face facts that vision dies in almost every battle ever

    if the phasing idea really worked, he would have used it to not get blown up all the goddamn time

    The Vision and Red Tornado should have a "who gets blown the fuck up the most"-off.

    robots get all the deaths they can't explain away on humans.

    Kuribo's Shoe on
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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I give it to Kitty and Blink, mostly because they've got a huge advantage, but also because I really wanna piss Terrorbyte off.

    The Muffin Man on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Servo wrote:
    guys you have to face facts that vision dies in almost every battle ever

    if the phasing idea really worked, he would have used it to not get blown up all the goddamn time

    The Vision and Red Tornado should have a "who gets blown the fuck up the most"-off.

    Red Tornado wins that so hard it's not even funny.

    Well, it's actually hilarious, but it would make Vision cry.

    Spectre-x on
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    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    When it comes down to Vision or Shadowcat, I think there is one important factor no one has really touched on yet which could well sway the entire debate.

    Boobies.

    Meow.

    Caveman Paws on
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I give it to Kitty and Blink, mostly because they've got a huge advantage, but also because I really wanna piss Terrorbyte off.

    :^:

    Scooter on
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    Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Kitty and Blink

    Kitty's intangibility isn't based on density, it's some sort of magnetic electric field crap. And magneto can't do shit about that but that's for another battle.

    Blink can just teleport flash(she CAN react that fast) and vision gets messed up bigtime by Kitty.

    Mai-Kero on
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    CharmyCharmy Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Blink can just teleport flash(she CAN react that fast).

    She can only react that fast if she sees him coming. With so many obstacles in this field, it's very likely The Flash would be able to get the drop on her; just pop out at high speed from behind one of those freakishly giant trees.

    She can open a portal pretty fast if she knows where to open it, but in the time it takes her to figure out where The Flash is coming at her from he could probably take her out.

    Charmy on
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    NondocNondoc Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    Blink's spikes mostly seem to exist to look cool. Sometimes whatever they hit gets ported, but other times Blink can just make portals without needing them at all. I don't think they've ever spelled out exactly what it is they do.

    I always got the impression that Blink can open oprtals at what would be considered "touch" range, but also charge other objects to open portals/teleport, which is what she does with the crystals.

    It may be that the crystals are some special super-science substance that allows her to transfer her powers, but whatever they are she needs them to use her portals at a distance, but not up close.

    Nondoc on
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