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Chemistry Problem (not the lab, but the girlz)
Dalboz
Resident Puppy EaterRight behind you...Registered User regular
Resident Puppy EaterRight behind you...Registered User regular
"You're a really nice guy, and I'd like to pursue a friendship, but I just don't feel there's any chemistry between us."
-Every Girl I've Ever Dated
I have a problem. Every girls I've tried to date in just about my entire dating history says this. In whatever venue I meet them, whatever we do on a date, it doesn't matter. We go on one, maybe two dates at best. Rarely three. Then I get the above quote. And it's always the same. They always specifically say that they like me and want to be friends, but there's no "chemistry." Always "chemistry."
I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. I'm usually very talkative when we're together, telling them about myself and asking questions about them, usually more of the latter. I am really bad at reading signals, so I tend to hold back on some physical contact unless I know fairly clearly that they don't mind (I can be touchy-feely once that barrier is down, but I have difficulty reading that barrier being down). I always try to be nice, even chivalrous, such as opening doors, paying for everything at least on the first date, etc. As a result of this, I've only had what could be described as one relationship in my entire life, and that was pretty fucked up and the girl involved was crazy. No, I really mean she was crazy, as in stalkerish, she-really-does-need-to-be-in-treatment crazy, so I don't know if that counts.
I'm getting really frustrated and pissed off and depressed over this (depressed over several things right now, but this a biggy, since I just got this message through email from a girl I was seeing). What am I doing wrong? This is also directed at the girls who might read this thread: What do the girls really mean when there's no "chemistry?" Because that's the same line I'm being fed constantly, so I'm guessing that it probably means something else, or there's some hidden female code in there somewhere; just don't risk your life by revealing this secret code.
-Every Girl I've Ever Dated
I have a problem. Every girls I've tried to date in just about my entire dating history says this. In whatever venue I meet them, whatever we do on a date, it doesn't matter. We go on one, maybe two dates at best. Rarely three. Then I get the above quote. And it's always the same. They always specifically say that they like me and want to be friends, but there's no "chemistry." Always "chemistry."
I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. I'm usually very talkative when we're together, telling them about myself and asking questions about them, usually more of the latter. I am really bad at reading signals, so I tend to hold back on some physical contact unless I know fairly clearly that they don't mind (I can be touchy-feely once that barrier is down, but I have difficulty reading that barrier being down). I always try to be nice, even chivalrous, such as opening doors, paying for everything at least on the first date, etc. As a result of this, I've only had what could be described as one relationship in my entire life, and that was pretty fucked up and the girl involved was crazy. No, I really mean she was crazy, as in stalkerish, she-really-does-need-to-be-in-treatment crazy, so I don't know if that counts.
I'm getting really frustrated and pissed off and depressed over this (depressed over several things right now, but this a biggy, since I just got this message through email from a girl I was seeing). What am I doing wrong? This is also directed at the girls who might read this thread: What do the girls really mean when there's no "chemistry?" Because that's the same line I'm being fed constantly, so I'm guessing that it probably means something else, or there's some hidden female code in there somewhere; just don't risk your life by revealing this secret code.
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It may, for example, mean something like this: "I really enjoyed the attention at first but then that faded and all I was left with is the feeling that you're too fat for me." (I get this one).
It may be that you put out a particular vibe that's either dysfunctional or just incompatible with the people you're going out with. It's hard to tell which it might be - if you're going out with all the same kind of people, you may be encountering the same kind of incompatibility each time and you just need to date a different kind of person. Otherwise, maybe you're coming off as aloof or detached or depressed or whatever. It's going to be hard to see these things on your own; some brutally honest friends would be helpful here. Of course, this is also hard, because your friends may be just like you and thus unable to see what the girls are seeing.
Of course it would be most helpful if the girls themselves would tell you what's wrong. It's very likely that they know and are just keeping it to themselves in the name of tact. If they don't know, they could probably figure it out by thinking really hard for a few minutes about it, but there's a good portion of society that isn't observant or introspective enough to come up with adequate answers, so even that may not be helpful.
The point is that "there's just no chemistry" is a non-reason and a non-answer. There's no actionable information in there for you. You're going to need to dig deeper.
Good luck.
do you tease the girls you go out with? pay them out a bit? because i think you should. don't get me wrong, if you're having a laugh at their expense you better be sure to have one at your own as well - and it's a hard thing to balance - but it can be really good to know how to give your dates a gentle, good-humoured ribbing
it's not just because it injects a bit of fun into the relationship, either. it adds a bit of tension there, a bit of 'wait - did he mean that?'. of course you didn't, she still knows that, but maybe there's a teeny bit of doubt. and people like to be liked, she'll want to hang around you a bit, suss you out - as long as you back it up with genuine affection, make your time together worthwhile, she'll be less likely to think 'i know this guy's score. he's great (or terrible), but i've gotten as much from him as i feel i can get.'
i remember joking with a girlfriend on one of our first dates, at a pub. i just got back from the bathroom, she was sitting quietly. after a few seconds of silence i said 'i'm bored, you're boring me.' it was a lame futurama quote or something, off the cuff and i didn't think about it
years later (and we're still together), we were talking about when we knew we loved each other etc. she said "i don't know - you thought i was boring!" even if she didn't wholeheartedly believe it, she noticed it, she dwelled on it enough to remember it, and it made her want to crack me
maybe this is terrible advice and i don't want to promote a 'treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen' mentality, because i hate that. but chemistry is about a dynamic relationship as much as anything, and i think that could put some into your dates.
it's either that or vending-machine pheremones
edit: also, i'm not saying to take this to extremes, don't go out of your way if you already make fun of each other a bit when you go out. but if you try to play it as straight and careful as possible and be the ultimate nice-guy, you'll have no mystique at all
The reason why girls don't feel any chemistry with you is cause you're too much of a nice guy. If you treat them like a queen without them earning it, they'll feel that this is too easy and not really want to chase you.
Next time you take a girl out, keep the mentality in your head that you're just going to hang out tonight, like it's with your friends. Don't pay for everything, and have her buy something. Like you get the movie tickets and she buys the food/drink you two share. Don't run up to doors to open them for her, only if you're nearest to it when you walk up. Just play it cool. That's the first step to turning this around.
The goal is to have her try to win your approval. Then you've got it made and there's always chemistry with the girls you go out with. If you act like you can take it or leave it, and you're just out to have a good time that night (to see a good movie, have good conversation, whatever), AND if you can pick on her a bit to make her laugh and see that you're not afraid to put her on guard a bit and you're not putting the pussy on a pedestal, then she thinks she has to work at winning you over. Cause the way you're doing it, she's already won you over before you say the first word.
I'm not saying be a jerk. I'm just saying joke around with her like you would one of your guy friends. Treat her like an equal and go out and have a good time, and don't worry about making sure she has a great time. You both will end up having fun and she'll respect you for not fawning over her, and even want you more if you're not giving it up easily.
Know what I mean?
Edit: and don't be afraid to give some playful contact. Nothing worse than a guy who won't touch a girl cause he's afraid of her reaction, cause those guys always wait sooo long the girl wonders if he's got any balls. If she doesn't want to be touched, you'll know from her reaction. But she's not likely to shy away from your touch if she's out on a date with you. Just don't plan for 5 minutes "How am I gonna break the touch barrier? Should I graze her arm with my arm? Lead her up to the food counter with my palm on her back? Grab her hand during the movie?" cause if you plan and execute it'll seem forced and creepy. Just do what comes naturally and you'll do fine.
These are just general things and no two women are exactly the same about it. Many aren't even aware they're doing them. Some may, in fact, be consciously avoiding giving such signals and may not be interested, and others could be simply sending different signals.
But these are typically signs that any human is interested in another. And not even in a sexual way. Crossing their arms is a decent indicator that they're not being very open (i.e. protecting themselves). So if they're doing something that appears to be an type of engaging action, it's a good sign. If they're doing something as if they're trying to block you, that's a bad sign.
It could just be that your inability to see positive signs makes them think that you're not interested and when you show further interest they're 'confused' and then reject you with a vague response. It could even be that you're sending negative signals and it's a response to that.
However, DrFrylock is probably onto something. Since the other common thing here is you, it might just be something you're doing. If you can find people to honestly evaluate you and how you present yourself, you can at least narrow down if that is, indeed, the problem. It's okay to ask the women why they're not interested, but it can come off a bit creepy and desperate. Maybe phrase it like asking they why they felt there was no connection.
Remember, asking them to clarify can be awkward. For them because you might seem a bit needy. And for you because you might hear something you won't like. If you can ask in such a way to make it sound like a really casual question, you might have better success. And whatever the answer, don't be afraid of, or angered by, criticism. If you don't ask, you won't know. And if you don't know, you can't learn.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
This may be part of the issue. It's not the treating them like a queen part, it's that this is usually a symptom of something even worse: desperation. You can open doors and pay for dinner in a way that is cool and nonchalant, and you can do it in a way that says "OMG I'm so desperate please pay attention to me please please please." Women have finely-attuned desperation detectors, they're like bees and dogs are with fear. It's a slippery slope, too. Low self-esteem => Low self confidence => Trying a little bit too hard => Desperation => Loser. Anything on this little critical path can raise big red flags.
Times have changed. I don't want to say "chivalry is dead" but I it has changed. Women (in my experience) don't want to be made to feel like the guy they're dating somehow looks up to them as some kind of model of virtue. It sets up an impossible standard to live up to.
Also, it makes you look insincere. A date means getting to know someone. If you're too busy being "chivalrous", when does the real you come out? Some people say dating is like a job interview. I say bollocks to that. Dating is to see if you can be friends with someone who happens to be of the gender you're physically attracted to.
Chemistry means physical excitement and attraction, whether women want to admit it or not. As a guy, you can help foster this by being flirty and challenging. Don't be a doormat, don't put girls up on a pedestal. Just be yourself, concentrate on having fun, oh and TOUCH your date. Little things like brushing up against her had, focusing her attention on something by touching the small of her back. Maybe even a playful poke of shoulder-punch when the situation calls for it (don't overdo it).
Simply spouting out your interests in a row does not constitute stimulating conversation.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But not when I'm dating. Dating is about risk. Putting yourself and want you want out there. Waiting for singals? Sure, you can do that, but its better to generate your own. Somebody has to make the first move. I'm not talking about going all out, but just what was mentioned; that you are paying attention, that you are initiating some contact, that you are 'pulling' them them closer to you all the time.
For the most part, if you've gotten the date, they can see something there. The possibility. Now they are watching you for signs that you are something they want. They can be convinced, and they can become unconvinced. Most people take a 'try and see' approach to the person they are seeing, he wants a kiss, well lets give that a go. Was it decent? Yes, proceed, terrible, hey now lets go bowling instead.
The way you touch, the way you move, the amount of desire you have- all measured. Put those things forward. If you want someone so badly you can barely stand it, why would you nonchalantly wait around for them to 'see' if they want you back? Pursue them, show them you care, show them that you desire them. Being desired is as much as an aphrodisiac as anything else, someone on the fence can easily slip over to the positive side when they find that they are truly wanted. Make those first steps. Move forward until they move back.
Seduction is not an asshole move. Its a normal and healthy part of new relationships that needs to take place. Its a good thing, often abused by questionable people. If your intentions are good, and your heart is in the right place, then feel free to go hard. Put the effort in first. Make that investment up front. Not with cash or meals or movies, but with emotional risk and physical desire.
What does it cost to be forward? Afraid you might mess things up and she'll... what exactly? Tell you to slow down? Step away and give you a friends speech? Act bored? I guarentee you if you're a person of substance and worth, that even if she is only half-sold on the idea of being with you, you'll only get a 'stop that', not a 'stop altogether'. Which is what you're getting now. A full stop. The worst possible outcome.
The worst thing that could happen (in being good and caring) is already happening. Be afraid of that, that very real outcome instead of imaginary results that may or may not occur if you 'misjudge the signals'. Make your own signals. Lead. If it falls, she crashed. She wasn't into what you wanted, and thats her situation. Be okay with that. If you just follow someone along it is highly unlikely you'll wind up where you want to be.
not sure i really agree with this. it's good not to obsess and stress yourself about it, sure, but in most people's lives there'll be at least one first date that's incredibly important
This doesn't mean you need to change anything fundamental about yourself, you just need to be more energetic in your pursuits, more interactive, more social in them. Are you a generally introverted dude? That's ok, but you need to be more SOCIAL with your introversion, so to speak.
You say you're chivalrous. That's nice, for some girls. Some women honestly like that. But if that's all you bring, well it's not very interesting in and of itself. Do you have good conversations with these women? Do you feel you connect to them on a personal level? That's FAR more important than even physical attractiveness.
Secret Satan
I'm aware of some body signals that can be given, but I don't usually know what to do in that regard. In instances where I've actually tried to do anything (not jumping them or anything, just moving closer and maybe touching their hand or back a little), I get shot down, sometimes hard. Usually, the only time anything has gone anywhere is when the girl I've been with has made the first moves. So obviously, I'm really bad at this. I don't usually say much about myself unless asked, and I mostly focus on asking questions. Most of the girls I've been out with seem to at least be nice enough ask whatever I ask in return, as would be typical when getting to know each other
As for the whole chemistry thing, it really seems like women just don't like me, and if what Romantic Undead says is true (that chemistry is specifically referring to physical attraction), it seems that women just find me physically unattractive. This is disheartening, because the more experience I get, the more it seems to drive home that women simply don't like me. Period. It kind of seems that way in general social situations, too, when I'm not even trying to pick anyone up. It's like I'm emitting some kind of gender-based reverse gravitational force that repels the opposite sex with the force of black hole, so powerful that light can't get anywhere near me
The more I think about it and how consistent my history with women is, right down the wording used that they don't want to date me anymore, the depressed I'm getting.
Take a step back and look at your situation, and tell yourself that this is one of those life lessons that seem impossible at first, but once you conquer it, it'll change how you approach the rest of your life and you're going to become better because of it.
I don't care who you are, or what you look like, I've seen the weirdest and ugliest guys do fine with women, and you gotta know that the only thing that matters is personality when it comes to situations like this. If you think you're repelling girls, it's your personality. It's your self-confidence. It's how you express yourself in body language.
Take this opportunity in your life to see how much you can turn your situation around. Right now it can't get much worse in your eyes. So experiment and see what you can do to make this how you want it. Try things people have mentioned here. Try things you see guys in movies do who score the girl, even if it isn't yourself, just to see what happens. Maybe some things will work and you'll learn new things and grow in new directions.
For those people who are gonna say "Don't change! Be yourself, you'll find the one!" I'm not saying become another person. I'm just saying try new things and see the results.
Let me try to really nail this in. Right now you're going on dates, and inevitably the girls say they just want to be friends. Don't waste these experiences doing the same thing you've always been doing then! Try something different on every date and see what results! It's kinda like Groundhog Day except time is running normally and it's different girls you're after.
With girl A, try treating her like your best friend and just go see a movie or something. No pressure, no door opening, no touching, just chill. Who knows? Maybe she'll wonder why you're not showing interest and start making moves to entice you.
With girl B, act like you know she wants you and tease her about it. With girl C, tell her you appreciate a girl who opens doors for guys and pays for things. Say if she plays her cards right she might even get lucky tonight. With girl D, do something you wouldn't normally do for a date, like sneak into the back of a farm to steal apples or go to the science center and play with all the interactive exhibits.
Use these dates to try new things and act in ways you wouldn't normally act. You might find that there's things you like doing and they also work for you, and you kinda grow into it and that's part of who you become.
Think about it. But whatever you do don't keep doing the same thing and getting depressed over it.
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I wish I had an answer, but the whole chemistry thing is something that is consistently mentioned when I get the Speech, so it seems to be some common element across the board. Whether they mean passion or literally mean feeling an interaction of alkali metals with halogen gases, I don't know. I have no idea what it's supposed to mean, which is why I came here in the first place.
Sorry if I came off rather reactionary and resistant, Dragon. This is something that's really getting to me, and I don't deal well with something I don't know or don't understand the reasoning behind. Oversimplification, but I think you get the idea.
The things is that I do try different tactics, as I mentioned. Various levels of touching, interaction, etc. Sometimes depending on what I think the girl would be comfortable with. For example, a more conservative girl I might hold back a bit with so as not to overstep boundaries, especially in the beginning. Occasionally, I do push it a little, but nothing serious; more like testing the waters. My interaction does change, but I always get a consistent result. And I think that's where I'm getting frustrated. I'm not doing the same thing, but same thing keeps happening, in the same terms that don't really make sense to me, and as a result I can't make sense of the situation as a whole.
don't overanalyze what's acceptable with touching and conversation and all that shit, instead just do shit.
she might seem really conservative, but who the hell knows what she really likes, unless you try..
There's a lot of subject matter on the internet, but it's easy if you remember a few things:
-Have good body language. I don't mean reading it. Learn how to carry yourself.
-Do not be reactive to the girl. I mean, don't be emotionally reactive to her. If she rebuffs you, don't get sad. Note it, but don't dwell. It's more important than I can express simply, but it builds huge attraction.
-Have good vocal tonality. Learn to speak well and LOUD. Speaking poorly or softly immediately makes it seem like you don't believe what you're saying. This shows a lack of confidence and tanks attraction.
As far as 'not making the first move', you NEED TO DO IT. Keep in mind that the code of chivalry is about a guy LEADING. You need to LEAD the relationship to where you want it to go. You can't just hope that she's going to take it where you want. Because, straight up, if you let her take it where you want, then you're going to end up as a friend. You've learned that by now. You're the one who has to make things happen.