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WoW: The New BLT: Bacon of LighT [Chat and General Discussion]

2456770

Posts

  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Not this week because there's a scourge invasion spawn point outside Ironforge right where all the happy Brewfest revelers are!

    The dark iron dwarves and the scourge are here run!

    You lives and beer are forfit!

    That just gave me a great idea:

    Imagine, the mole machines appear at Brewfest. Uh oh, Dark Iron Dwarves again. And out from the machines...SCOURGE!!!

    Zython on
    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Minerva_SCMinerva_SC Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Arena in 3.0 will be glorious. Everything you knew about match ups will be thrown out the window and you'll be getting your ass kicked by random mage/warlock combo's or something till people get everything down. I plan to spec my war prot and go to town, maybe do 2's with a frostmage or something, it should be fun. :p

    Minerva_SC on
    "If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
    I'm dead serious."
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    It was kinda slow even before most everyone got the retribution memo, though it REALLY clogged down after a batch of beta invites went out. Most people (myself included) seemed to want to test things out in a beta environment without having to worry about ganking while leveling to 80. And most of the people on one server causes performance issues, no matter what patch of the game it's on. It'll be fine in live.
    Forar wrote: »
    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.
    I chose paladins before WoW beta was even out. I didn't know, nor even care, that they were hybrids. And Charvanek's respec fee, last time I checked it, was 1 copper. Yeah, I'm somewhat of an outlier on that one (I can tank well enough and backup heal on Tresjynn if I need to), but at least for now, hybrid DPS is still going to get close to pure DPS class DPS, given equal gear. Not surpassing, just getting close.

    Spending 50g on a regular basis to flip back and forth is what other people do. Not for me, personally. Too much like buying Griftah goods.

    SabreMau on
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    "Remember where you are. This is Thunderdome. Death is listening, and will take the first man who screams."

    As a hybrid I can't tank and heal at the same time. I can do one or the other. Once I've committed to a role, I'm going to be doing that role until I go and respec and regear. Which I can't do on the fly. So while yes you're right, it's a silly argument because once I chose a spec, I'm locked into that role until I respec. At which one I'm locked into a single role again.

    Thomamelas on
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Devilsaurs have the most adorable swimming animation ever. All paddling along with their tiny little arms.

    -SPI- on
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    "Remember where you are. This is Thunderdome. Death is listening, and will take the first man who screams."

    As a hybrid I can't tank and heal at the same time. I can do one or the other. Once I've committed to a role, I'm going to be doing that role until I go and respec and regear. Which I can't do on the fly. So while yes you're right, it's a silly argument because once I chose a spec, I'm locked into that role until I respec. At which one I'm locked into a single role again.

    How is it a silly argument? Hybrids have a wealth of options open to them that pure classes do not. The pure classes need to be markedly better at the one and only thing they can do, ever in order to make things fair.

    Regina Fong on
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    jeepguy wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    "Remember where you are. This is Thunderdome. Death is listening, and will take the first man who screams."

    As a hybrid I can't tank and heal at the same time. I can do one or the other. Once I've committed to a role, I'm going to be doing that role until I go and respec and regear. Which I can't do on the fly. So while yes you're right, it's a silly argument because once I chose a spec, I'm locked into that role until I respec. At which one I'm locked into a single role again.

    How is it a silly argument? Hybrids have a wealth of options open to them that pure classes do not. The pure classes need to be markedly better at the one and only thing they can do, ever in order to make things fair.
    Pure classes do have the same options open to them. All they have to do is reroll.

    50g here, a reroll there, what's the difference outside of degree?

    SabreMau on
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Someone mentioned tanking being more fun because you do more damage.

    If it weren't for the across-the-board +30% threat buff, you'd be doing effectively the same TPS with the abilities you already have, because they used to get their threat from the "This ability causes a high amount of threat" line in their tooltip, where post-3.0 they get their threat from scaling with AP and/or spell damage. The reason you're seeing bigger numbers now as a tank is because the extra threat is being made more transparent [you're seeing 100% of the threat in hard numbers instead of invisible +threat multipliers] and because all tanks got a roughly 30% boost to threat, which takes the form of bigger numbers.

    Hamurabi on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Halfmex wrote: »
    On the one hand, yeah, it's easy to say "well that just opens up possibilities for progression", but on the other, you've got classes potentially sidelined because no matter what they do, they don't have the option of tossing out an emergency heal (lower-quality though it may be) or off-tanking.


    This is silly. Every single class brings something to a raid. Rogues bring Tricks of the Trade and their version of Blood Frenzy. Warlocks bring amazing debuffs. Every class has something other than pure DPS/Heals/Tanking that they can offer, which, in most cases, will make them very desirable. To say you're going to be sidelined because you can't heal/tank is ludicrous.

    Literally the only class who doesn't bring anything special to a raid right now is DPS warriors. And that's just me whining because every buff we have can be supplied by another class, and in a better form. :(

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think there's some merit to spreading the hybridization...the first half of demonology focuses so much on survivability anyways. Of course, it's not going to happen. And I'm not very interested in the whole tanking thing. (Although, I should note, I'm still ending up as the warlock tank for Illidan...)

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    SabreMau wrote: »
    50g here, a reroll there, what's the difference outside of degree?

    I think, when he said "...a wealth of options open to them that pure classes do not," he meant things like Nurturing Instinct, Sheath of Light, and Maelstrom weapon -- cross-spec talents that will help you heal or do magical damage in a pinch. It's a stretch, but maybe that's what he meant.

    Hamurabi on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    50g here, a reroll there, what's the difference outside of degree?

    I think, when he said "...a wealth of options open to them that pure classes do not," he meant things like Nurturing Instinct, Sheath of Light, and Maelstrom weapon -- cross-spec talents that will help you heal or do magical damage in a pinch. It's a stretch, but maybe that's what he meant.

    I think he meant exactly what Sabre thinks he meant.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    50g here, a reroll there, what's the difference outside of degree?

    I think, when he said "...a wealth of options open to them that pure classes do not," he meant things like Nurturing Instinct, Sheath of Light, and Maelstrom weapon -- cross-spec talents that will help you heal or do magical damage in a pinch. It's a stretch, but maybe that's what he meant.

    I think he meant exactly what Sabre thinks he meant.

    I roleplay as Deville S. Add'vokate from time to time.

    Hamurabi on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Halfmex wrote: »
    On the one hand, yeah, it's easy to say "well that just opens up possibilities for progression", but on the other, you've got classes potentially sidelined because no matter what they do, they don't have the option of tossing out an emergency heal (lower-quality though it may be) or off-tanking.


    This is silly. Every single class brings something to a raid. Rogues bring Tricks of the Trade and their version of Blood Frenzy. Warlocks bring amazing debuffs. Every class has something other than pure DPS/Heals/Tanking that they can offer, which, in most cases, will make them very desirable. To say you're going to be sidelined because you can't heal/tank is ludicrous.

    All the important warlock debuffs (that I can think of offhand) can be provided by hybrids. :P

    That said, warlocks still provide healthstones, soul stone, and demon controlling abilities. :)

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Tricks of the trade isn't exactly amazing, it also isn't needed considering generating threat in WOTLK as it currently stands is easier than rolling your face across the keyboard.

    The other problem with equal dps is liability, and rogues are the worst there. We have to stand in melee range of the big bad boss with our shitty leather armour and eat constant AOEs, as well as having a lower threat cap.

    We take up more healing than any hunter/mage/warlock/priest who stand comfortably out of range of the majority of attacks in most boss fights. And warriors and paladins get much more armour and hp. We're also absolutely useless at dealing with multiple mobs which is just another reason to bring a mage or lock with their amazing AOE capabilities while retaining the same single target dps of a rogue.

    Rami on
    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Bit of an odd question here. What's the best way to transfer items or gold across factions? I recently decided to roll a night elf and see the other side of the pond, and I wanted to send him some gold, to buy some bags and just get him set up nice. After hatching a plan to get him to a neutral AH and putting up a piece of cloth for 100g, I realize Blizzard doesn't like that because my troll can't bid on the auction. So is there any way to do this with one account? Or do I just have to ask some guildies to be middlemen?

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
    PSN: TheWolfman64 3DS/Pokemon Y: 0774-4614-4065/NNID: the_wolfman64
  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Halfmex wrote: »
    On the one hand, yeah, it's easy to say "well that just opens up possibilities for progression", but on the other, you've got classes potentially sidelined because no matter what they do, they don't have the option of tossing out an emergency heal (lower-quality though it may be) or off-tanking.


    This is silly. Every single class brings something to a raid. Rogues bring Tricks of the Trade and their version of Blood Frenzy. Warlocks bring amazing debuffs. Every class has something other than pure DPS/Heals/Tanking that they can offer, which, in most cases, will make them very desirable. To say you're going to be sidelined because you can't heal/tank is ludicrous.

    Literally the only class who doesn't bring anything special to a raid right now is DPS warriors. And that's just me whining because every buff we have can be supplied by another class, and in a better form. :(

    I hate to be a devils advocate here but it is not just DPS warriors. Holy priests have the same problem. Druids and Paladins are as good if not better than priests healing wise and they get some cool utils like battle res and DI. If it wasn't for circle of healing, there would be no reason to take more than one priest along in raids (for the spirit buff).

    Mc zany on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Aldarez wrote: »
    I refuse to post in this thread until someone comes up with an interesting title.


    Shit.

    Dhalphir on
  • EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Aldarez wrote: »
    I refuse to post in this thread until someone comes up with an interesting title.


    Shit.

    In honor of the Warrior change:

    Thunder, thunder, thunderclaps, Ho!
    Thunderclaps are on the move,
    Thunderclaps are loose,
    Feel the magic, hear the Roar,
    Thunderclaps are loose,

    Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thunderclaps!
    Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thunderclaps!
    Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thunderclaps!
    Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thunderclaps! Thunderclaps!

    Probably better suited for the warrior thread, but there's no witty title here yet.

    EvilBadman on
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I should note that Badman is fucking awesome
    XBL- Evil Badman; Steam- EvilBadman; Twitter - EvilBadman
  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Well, I know I'm going to be transferring my rogue to my friend's/roommate's server so I'm getting him from 66 to 70 to be ready for WoTLK to drop so I can duo with his dr00d.

    But I have a warlock I'd love to play in WoTLK as well, and my level 60 Ret Pally in the Beasts is something I'd love to play some more of come the time. Balancing time between these is obviously going to be an issue, as is the fact that I'm not really looking forward to doing HFP.....again. At least it'll be faster this time around.

    mynameisguido on
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  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    For your amusement: The thread that spawned after my guild exploded. The best actual numbers I can come to is that 8 officers took 15 players of the guild, and dumped 22. Most of them want to continue raiding in some form, so they didn't dare comment, or only as alts. But I had nothing holding me back, and did my best to expose how exactly they set this up, and how little they cared for their members. The amount of personal attacks I got is hilarious. Vaneras himself came to lock the thread in the end.

    SanderJK on
    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    I would like to see you, from now on, try to complete both a set of gear for your rogue and a set of gear for a resto druid while you are raiding. I'd love to see the gear that you'd be able to get.

    Don't mind me, Sunwell guild. I'm gonna tank these bosses in my dungeon blues!

    You're acting like it's such a simple solution to gear up and do this shit. You could probably level up a guy to 70 before I was 1/4 of the way done with gearing up my character. Shit, with all the crap around now, you could do it in under a week.

    Munkus Beaver on
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    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
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  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Your old guild members need to learn how to type.

    shadowane on
    Rich on Beer - I talk about drinking beer. You read about it.
  • MonstyMonsty Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    I would like to see you, from now on, try to complete both a set of gear for your rogue and a set of gear for a resto druid while you are raiding. I'd love to see the gear that you'd be able to get.

    Don't mind me, Sunwell guild. I'm gonna tank these bosses in my dungeon blues!

    You're acting like it's such a simple solution to gear up and do this shit. You could probably level up a guy to 70 before I was 1/4 of the way done with gearing up my character. Shit, with all the crap around now, you could do it in under a week.
    Yeah, but a pure DPS who wants to tank or heal has to reroll/level to 70, as you mentioned, and then ALSO gear up. It's still requiring more effort from pure classes to switch roles. Not to mention I bet more people do 5-mans than raids where jumping around is more welcoming.

    And I'm pretty much playing devil's advocate here. I play more than one class, anyways.

    Monsty on
  • ZeroCowZeroCow Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    ZeroCow wrote: »
    Finally purchased BC this weekend, yay wedding money!

    You have exceptionally bad timing, you know that?

    Why's that? He's about two or three weeks away from McAwesome patch and you need BC in order to play Wrath anyway. With any luck he'll hit 70 right when Wrath hits.

    I doubt I'll get my hunter to 70 before November since I work full-time and just started grad school, but it is nice to have access to the "new" content and I can't wait for the patch. Plus I think I'll actually get WotLK in a decent amount of time. Probably not right at release, but I'm guessing by the beginning of the new year.

    Also I'm happy because I can finally play a paladin. And you might say, but you could before. Which is true, but I like the Horde and all my gold is on Horde characters. So...yay paladin!

    ZeroCow on
    PSN ID - Buckeye_Bert
    Magic Online - Bertro
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    jeepguy wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    "Remember where you are. This is Thunderdome. Death is listening, and will take the first man who screams."

    As a hybrid I can't tank and heal at the same time. I can do one or the other. Once I've committed to a role, I'm going to be doing that role until I go and respec and regear. Which I can't do on the fly. So while yes you're right, it's a silly argument because once I chose a spec, I'm locked into that role until I respec. At which one I'm locked into a single role again.

    How is it a silly argument? Hybrids have a wealth of options open to them that pure classes do not. The pure classes need to be markedly better at the one and only thing they can do, ever in order to make things fair.

    Except the pure classes have a wealth of options of play style open to them. A mutilate dagger plays different then a combat swords rogue. Frost mages play differently then fire mages. To say that pure DPS classes don't have a choice is wrong. The other issue is that if there is a radical gap between a hybrid's DPS and a pure classes DPS, the hybrid will not be viable.

    That has been a fundamental fact throughout the last two expansions.

    Thomamelas on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Monsty wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    I would like to see you, from now on, try to complete both a set of gear for your rogue and a set of gear for a resto druid while you are raiding. I'd love to see the gear that you'd be able to get.

    Don't mind me, Sunwell guild. I'm gonna tank these bosses in my dungeon blues!

    You're acting like it's such a simple solution to gear up and do this shit. You could probably level up a guy to 70 before I was 1/4 of the way done with gearing up my character. Shit, with all the crap around now, you could do it in under a week.
    Yeah, but a pure DPS who wants to tank or heal has to reroll/level to 70, as you mentioned, and then ALSO gear up. It's still requiring more effort from pure classes to switch roles. Not to mention I bet more people do 5-mans than raids where jumping around is more welcoming.

    And I'm pretty much playing devil's advocate here. I play more than one class, anyways.

    I'm actually able to out damage better geared rogues in 5mans if there is a shaman present >.>

    The bottom line is always thus: "What gear are you collecting?" I'm not collecting gear for my tier of playing for anything but my spec'd roll. I only start to delve into other off-spec gear once all the mains have much better things for that slot. And by then its a moot point.

    I mean, I find it hard enough to get just one set of gear from raiding kara and getting badges. Asking me to build two or three sets at the same time is going to make me flaccid like a seventy year old's dick.

    Furthermore, you roll a rogue so that your roll will always be doing damage, and you can do damage with X flair and Y focus. As a pally, I can only deal damage in one very specific manner. If I only like doing DPS and I get bored with my spec, then I can't respec. I gotta reroll. Conversely, a rogue can go from one day saying "I think I'll play around with Shadowstep for the weekend" and go hogwild in battlegrounds, raids, parties, what-have-you dishing out damage and prancing around like a fucking ninja and then respec for mutilate come 3.0 and eat up combo points with whimsy.

    And here's the rub for the famous "If hybrids can do DPS as well as pure classes, who would roll a pure class?" line: "If hybrids couldn't do DPS as well as pure classes, who in would ever choose that spec?" So, again, the current philosophy (which I agree with) is that each talent tree should be a playstyle. Each playstyle should be viable for both PvP and PvE. Some people have 3 dps playstyles, some people have 1, others have 2.

    Munkus Beaver on
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  • FreakinchairFreakinchair Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    jeepguy wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    "Remember where you are. This is Thunderdome. Death is listening, and will take the first man who screams."

    As a hybrid I can't tank and heal at the same time. I can do one or the other. Once I've committed to a role, I'm going to be doing that role until I go and respec and regear. Which I can't do on the fly. So while yes you're right, it's a silly argument because once I chose a spec, I'm locked into that role until I respec. At which one I'm locked into a single role again.

    How is it a silly argument? Hybrids have a wealth of options open to them that pure classes do not. The pure classes need to be markedly better at the one and only thing they can do, ever in order to make things fair.

    Except the pure classes have a wealth of options of play style open to them. A mutilate dagger plays different then a combat swords rogue. Frost mages play differently then fire mages. To say that pure DPS classes don't have a choice is wrong. The other issue is that if there is a radical gap between a hybrid's DPS and a pure classes DPS, the hybrid will not be viable.

    That has been a fundamental fact throughout the last two expansions.

    Raid Leader: Hey guys, were down one healer tonight - can any of you hybrids respec and fill the role?
    Pure DPS Class: :(
    Raid Leader: Oh we also need a tank, and druids or pallies want to man up?
    Pure DPS Class: :(
    Raid Leader: Some fights are going to require more healing than others, so some of you pure dps are going to have to sit out so we can take ret pallies / feral druids / elemental shamans who can off heal in healing gear for fights that arent dps races or only require 1 tank/more healers.

    Sure DPS classes can choose their playstyle - it doesnt make them able to do anything other than DPS. Why ever take a pure DPS class when a hybrid can fill any role at a winks notice? Obviously we wont see raids filled with hybrids but there's no denying that they are more useful than pure classes - exceptionally so in WOTLK.

    Freakinchair on
    I'd construct a situation such that everyone died at the exact same moment so that we could attack whatever afterlife there happens to be en masse and so take it over and create a perfect unending afterlife existence. Also, everyone who wanted one would have an afterlife pony.
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    jeepguy wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Yeah, the pvp beta server doesn't seem too populated, but it seems like everyone and their mother is on pve.

    I wonder why the pvp server would be unpopulated?

    ... oh yeah! A bunch of ret paladins turned it into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic wasteland!

    (I don't actually know why)

    Edit: also; screw you guys regarding the tanking/healing/dps shenanigans. Tell you what; let all hybrids dps as well as dps classes. But mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues either get a viable tanking spec, healing spec, or both.

    "As a _____ hybrid, I can't *tank/heal*."

    Yes you can. It's called a respec and slapping on some new gear. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean your character/class lost the ability. "Not wanting to" and "not ever being able to" are two completely seperate things.

    "Remember where you are. This is Thunderdome. Death is listening, and will take the first man who screams."

    As a hybrid I can't tank and heal at the same time. I can do one or the other. Once I've committed to a role, I'm going to be doing that role until I go and respec and regear. Which I can't do on the fly. So while yes you're right, it's a silly argument because once I chose a spec, I'm locked into that role until I respec. At which one I'm locked into a single role again.

    How is it a silly argument? Hybrids have a wealth of options open to them that pure classes do not. The pure classes need to be markedly better at the one and only thing they can do, ever in order to make things fair.

    Except the pure classes have a wealth of options of play style open to them. A mutilate dagger plays different then a combat swords rogue. Frost mages play differently then fire mages. To say that pure DPS classes don't have a choice is wrong. The other issue is that if there is a radical gap between a hybrid's DPS and a pure classes DPS, the hybrid will not be viable.

    That has been a fundamental fact throughout the last two expansions.

    Raid Leader: Hey guys, were down one healer tonight - can any of you hybrids respec and fill the role?
    Pure DPS Class: :(
    Raid Leader: Oh we also need a tank, and druids or pallies want to man up?
    Pure DPS Class: :(
    Raid Leader: Some fights are going to require more healing than others, so some of you pure dps are going to have to sit out so we can take ret pallies / feral druids / elemental shamans who can off heal in healing gear for fights that arent dps races or only require 1 tank/more healers.

    Sure DPS classes can choose their playstyle - it doesnt make them able to do anything other than DPS. Why ever take a pure DPS class when a hybrid can fill any role at a winks notice? Obviously we wont see raids filled with hybrids but there's no denying that they are more useful than pure classes - exceptionally so in WOTLK.

    Except until you get the point in which you vastly out gear the content your hybrids will not have the gear to be able to do comparable healing or tanking to your main healers and tanks.

    And generally people don't chose hybrids because they want to do all three. Most people want to do a single thing. I'd rather have a root canal then go back to being a full time healer. I did it pre-tbc and I loathe it. I really don't understand why people think being forced into a role you hate is a good thing.

    Thomamelas on
  • FugaFuga Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I'm D.E.H.T.A-s B.I.T.C.H.

    Fuga on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    My warrior does not have the best gear
    The other day a night elf rouge wearing the season 2 gear attempted to kill me
    He hit me with everything he had and took about 3 minutes to drop me compared to me running back and dropping him with one hit since I applied rend before I died so he could not get the full effect of vanish

    Brainleech on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    i originally rolled a paladin not to be a hybrid, but to be a paladin tank. if paladins could only tank, i'd still be one. why should i heal just because i didnt want to tank on a warrior?

    Dhalphir on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    i originally rolled a paladin not to be a hybrid, but to be a paladin tank. if paladins could only tank, i'd still be one. why should i heal just because i didnt want to tank on a warrior?

    I rolled my paladin because I wanted to tank then I thought it was a good idea to respec my warrior from arms to protection
    I am collecting a healing set for my paladin when I am forced to heal

    I hear that arms is calling me and hanging up but I kind of like tanking

    Brainleech on
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Bah, it's so hard to get anyone to protect Brewfest during the Dark Iron attack on my server. They mostly stand around and watch it, or jump around enjoying the knockback. And I quickly found out a single drunken dwarf cannot protect the camp by himself.
    Those extra 10 tokens a day (which I haven't gotten since the beginning of the event) would really help me get the 400 tokens I need to get all the crap I want. Any suggestions on the best time of day for people to actually participate?

    Also, I'm now stuck trying to figure out how best to spend my honor/marks before they're erased. Do I just buy whatever I can that's an upgrade and then ignore BGs, or do I actually focus on BGs and try to get a bunch of stuff before it gets whiped out?

    Lars on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Lars wrote: »
    Bah, it's so hard to get anyone to protect Brewfest during the Dark Iron attack on my server. They mostly stand around and watch it, or jump around enjoying the knockback. And I quickly found out a single drunken dwarf cannot protect the camp by himself.
    Those extra 10 tokens a day (which I haven't gotten since the beginning of the event) would really help me get the 400 tokens I need to get all the crap I want. Any suggestions on the best time of day for people to actually participate?

    Also, I'm now stuck trying to figure out how best to spend my honor/marks before they're erased. Do I just buy whatever I can that's an upgrade and then ignore BGs, or do I actually focus on BGs and try to get a bunch of stuff before it gets whiped out?

    It's the same for the horde on Windrunner most fight to stand on top of that one keg near the latrines
    so when they break it open they are floating

    usually the people dueling nearby will help for a break in the afternoon. Today I get the keg and beer of the month since that is all I wanted

    I would go into ironforge and ask? you might find a few who are bored enough to give it a try for 5 minutes

    Brainleech on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    i originally rolled a paladin not to be a hybrid, but to be a paladin tank. if paladins could only tank, i'd still be one. why should i heal just because i didnt want to tank on a warrior?

    well it depends when you rolled this pally tank.

    If it was before BC why in god's name would you want to tank on a pally instead of a warrior.

    Thier prot tree was awful before the xpac. Now it's incredible of course.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    i originally rolled a paladin not to be a hybrid, but to be a paladin tank. if paladins could only tank, i'd still be one. why should i heal just because i didnt want to tank on a warrior?

    well it depends when you rolled this pally tank.

    If it was before BC why in god's name would you want to tank on a pally instead of a warrior.

    Thier prot tree was awful before the xpac. Now it's incredible of course.

    My brother has played a protection paladin since day one almost 4 years ago
    When he wakes up I will ask him why? Are you that much of a sadist?

    Brainleech on
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    i originally rolled a paladin not to be a hybrid, but to be a paladin tank. if paladins could only tank, i'd still be one. why should i heal just because i didnt want to tank on a warrior?

    well it depends when you rolled this pally tank.

    If it was before BC why in god's name would you want to tank on a pally instead of a warrior.

    Thier prot tree was awful before the xpac. Now it's incredible of course.

    There was this line in the manual that said "Tanks overall". I fell for it. I leveled Prot, tanked instances as Prot and even did early raiding as Prot. It wasn't until you got to the deep number crunching that we couldn't do the job.

    Thomamelas on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Before BC, prot pallies had more threat generation than god, single-target at least.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
This discussion has been closed.