They must be working on viable tactics for Palin during the debate that aren't distracting the audience wth puppies or having McCain tickle Biden in the middle of every answer, but what would they be? Surely by now they realise that trying to make her sound presidential or even vaguely competent isn't going to work.
She doesn't need to sound like a plausible president ready to take over from McCain if he snuffs it - she needs to just shore up the support she was picked to gee up. She could shrug off the question of readiness for succession by just smiling and saying that McCain has plenty of years left in him and he'll outlive us all ho ho but she's sure that with a strong team surrounding her she'll be ready blah blah. What if they just let her loose and she drags every question kicking and screaming back to Jesus, being pro-life, supporting Israel, general patriotism and maverick maverick. If she manages to get those answers off without falling over herself isn't that surely going to be better than fumbling attempts to remember who the President of Pakistan is? Biden's going to eat her alive if she tries to actually debate him, so the smart move has to be to say screw it and tell her to be as evangelical as she can.
Single-issue voters are silly. How's your friend feel about going to war with everybody there is?
Funny thing, she's a pacifist and a vegetarian and very cute and mousy. She's just very religious. She really is one of those "value voters" and is generally disinterested in politics. I guess she really does personally identify with Palin, and I don't think there's any rational way to argue against that without losing a friend.D:
She isn't one of those freakishly idiotic people who think Jesus was a vegetarian, is she?
Nah, in the Seventh-Day-Adventist church it is "highly encouraged" for folk to be vegetarian for their health. 'Cause "your body is the temple of God" and all that.
It should be noted that pork and shellfish are a huge no-no regardless of being a vegetarian or not though.
(used to be adventist. Though I wasn't vegitarian. Also, my parents still think I'm adventist so.... *cough*.)
would it be in poor taste for Biden to ask Palin if any of her ancestors had a pet dinosaur? Or of she thinks the Flinstones is a documentary?
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Oh yes, I know. And thank the gods for that. I absolutely detest Biden, and it actually made me rather angry that Obama chose someone like Biden that is so politics-as-usual. To me, it completely destroyed his whole campaign of "changing the way Washington works." Actually, both VP choices were complete oxymorons. Biden contradicts change and fighting the status-quo, Palin contradicts the entire notion of experience and honesty.
If I could vote, I'd still vote Obama, but I wouldn't be happy about it. Everybody loves Bill Clinton, but I still remember him allowing the GOP to piggyback legislation on the Higher Education Act to restrict non-violent felony drug offenders from federal education grants. Might not seem so bad, but that's why I had to wait until I was 27 to work on my college degree rather than when I was still 19. A rapist, child molester, murderer, etc. could get an education grant, but I could not. Biden was a proponent of that legislation.
My real point is, don't think that just because he's a Democrat that all's peachy and rosy. The Demoncrats can be just as bad in many ways as the Republicons, and in the end they all answer to the will of their corporate masters above the will of the American people.
would it be in poor taste for Biden to ask Palin if any of her ancestors had a pet dinosaur? Or of she thinks the Flinstones is a documentary?
Yes, it would.
First, there is no clear evidence that she actually believes that. The information for such claims comes from a rather dubious source, a far-left blogger who is/was a local Alaskan music teacher. Frankly, it's entirely hearsay. He said, she said.
Secondly, it sound patronizing and belittling. Neither of which are very adorable traits for a person to show.
What would work? Ask her why she thinks philosophy constitutes science. Ask her how does one scientifically test for principles of "intelligent design." Watching her fumble, mumble, and try to wrap a sentence around that would clearly expose her as the nitwit that she is. The problem lies that a large percentage of Americans would still be offended by those questions as well. This is a nation where a poll concluded that 60% of people believe in a literal biblical flood, that the story of Noah's Ark really did happen. 61% believe in that the bible's story of creation is literal and not symbolic.
She doesn't have to scientifically justify intelligent design, she just has to parrot the line about teaching both, 'not being afraid of information' and something something Jesus. I don't think she needs to turn in a Vice-Presidential performance. She just needs to do what she's supposed to - shore up the fundie/gun lobby/hockey mom vote by making sure they can identify with her on a personal level. They don't care about the details of tribal politics in the Middle East - they just want to hear that she'll support Israel and doesn't trust any of them other furriners out there.
True, her whole entire induction was because the fundamentalist crowd and hard-right hate McCain. To be honest, it doesn't matter how much Palin screws up, flubs, looks like an idiot. Many are going to vote for her and McCain because they cannot and will not vote for a black man. My grandmother is that way, and I'd love to tell you her take on it, but I'm afraid I'd be banned for doing so.
Broaching the topic of intelligent design as a crock of idiocy is a doomed platform in the USA. This is not like the UK where the notion of intelligent design being introduced into the curriculum creates national uproar against it. Here, people say, "oh, why not." Because it's not science, that's why not.
Anyways, mayhaps we steer this away from intelligent design lest this thread begin to merge ideologically with this one. There are plenty of other things to mention, such as Palin's record of earmarks and bloated budgeting. Or McCain's strong stances against regulation that helped to create our current financial mess...
I don't think any of those things (earmarks, regulation, proven lies, etc) are going to matter to the people Palin's there to bring on board. She's there for numerous single-issue voters and as long as she hits their buttons she's done her job. She doesn't need to match Biden on policy experience or anything substantial - she just needs to shore up the lolfundie vote, get the hell out of there and dodge the press for another month. She'll look like an idiot to Democrats who weren't going to vote for her anyway and reasonable Republicans who view her as a necessary evil. Undecideds might agree, but what the hell - it's not like McCain trusts her either and is going to let her set policy (or, in fact, decide anything except what moose to shoot). It's only the problem of her possible succession that makes her really dangerous, and how many votes is that going to swing?
Sure, she's a laughing stock and an idiot. But she can still do what she was picked for.
One thing: Biden can do literally nothing to prevent appearing like a bully. The best he could do is rebut every single point she makes and do it professionally.
As a professional hitman would. Clean, effective, no more than is necessary.
I also want to see him go absolutely fucking nuclear on her. 3 minutes in. Either way, he's going to look like a bully. Let's all band together to tell people they need to stfu, followed by asking them if they would say "He needs to be nice" if it was George W Bush up there.
I think his best weapons are going to be a quizzical smile and a deep, rolling sigh. Or he could just endlessly repeat 'What Governer Palin doesn't understand is...' every time.
I think his best weapons are going to be a quizzical smile and a deep, rolling sigh. Or he could just endlessly repeat 'What Governer Palin doesn't understand is...' every time.
Ugh no. You do not want their to be a Biden: Palin::McCain:Obama relationship. Given Obama's considerable lead Biden should just politely answer the questions without really touching on most of Palin's comments.
If they have to interact and she just pours out gibberish in place of a substantial answer he'll have to engage somehow. They'be nothing in her answer to actually address other than asking 'whut?', so he'll need some way of pressing her. Just leaving her enough rope to hang herself is potentially risky, as she may have crammed just enough to get a passing 'D'.
If they have to interact and she just pours out gibberish in place of a substantial answer he'll have to engage somehow. They'be nothing in her answer to actually address other than asking 'whut?', so he'll need some way of pressing her. Just leaving her enough rope to hang herself is potentially risky, as she may have crammed just enough to get a passing 'D'.
I was pretty certain that the format was completely different from the Presidential debates with less direct interaction.
I'll also note that while I think he shouldn't engage the stupid I don't think he will be able to avoid/resist it.
No matter what, even if Biden is a smiling, nice old man who comes across as cuddly as a kitten on Christmas day, lets Palin flub away and gives her a free pass the entire debate, the far-right wacko AM media of Limbaugh, Levin, and Hannity will accuse him of being a bully.
Whatever happens with this debate I don't think it will change that much - Palin consolidates the pro-lifers et al for the Republicans as much as she consolidates their opposite numbers for the Democrats. What Biden has to do is to nudge as many independents as possible over to Obama and the best way to do that is to seem authoritative and 'presidential'. He should try to show Palin up by contrasting her rather than attacking her, if the debate is set up in a less head-to-head way than the presidential ones then that would be the obvious tactic anyway.
Biden should tear her to shreds if she gives him the opportunity. As mean as they make him look for it, they'll make Palin look weak. A VP that needs to wrapped in cotton wool isn't fit for the job.
I am sure Biden is gonna make a gaffe about how guys would like to masturbate on Palin, In fact he would like to as well! But it will be ignored as just another dumb-ass thing Biden says randomly.
And so it goes...
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Biden should tear her to shreds if she gives him the opportunity. As mean as they make him look for it, they'll make Palin look weak. A VP that needs to wrapped in cotton wool isn't fit for the job.
Let's be honest. She might tear herself to shreds.
Despite how well Barack is doing right now, I can only think back to the last time we thought McCain was dead in the water- during the primaries.
I wouldn't count him out yet. He can still make a comeback.
Incidentally, there's an interesting Foreign Affairs article by Holbrooke right now comparing the two foreign policies. I found it a very good "overall summary" of their differences.
Letting Palin dig her own grave is pretty risky. If she manages to trot out rote answers without flubbing it'll count as a win for her, because hey, she can speak in sentences now. Biden has to go after her, just with a scalpel, not an axe.
Despite how well Barack is doing right now, I can only think back to the last time we thought McCain was dead in the water- during the primaries.
I wouldn't count him out yet. He can still make a comeback.
Incidentally, there's an interesting Foreign Affairs article by Holbrooke right now comparing the two foreign policies. I found it a very good "overall summary" of their differences.
McCain cratered in the primaries in July of 2007. It was almost Christmas before he had really come back to the forefront. Even then, people were thinking that Romney had a good shot at the nomination.
Incidentally, there's an interesting Foreign Affairs article by Holbrooke right now comparing the two foreign policies. I found it a very good "overall summary" of their differences.
I assume this is the article you were talking about? It's a good read and well explained. The side-tracking was kept minimal and helped to explain the point of view he's coming from - a solid article.
Despite how well Barack is doing right now, I can only think back to the last time we thought McCain was dead in the water- during the primaries.
I wouldn't count him out yet. He can still make a comeback.
Incidentally, there's an interesting Foreign Affairs article by Holbrooke right now comparing the two foreign policies. I found it a very good "overall summary" of their differences.
McCain cratered in the primaries in July of 2007. It was almost Christmas before he had really come back to the forefront. Even then, people were thinking that Romney had a good shot at the nomination.
He doesn't have 6 months to spare this time.
Obama isn't going to burn out like McCain's primary opponents did.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Letting Palin dig her own grave is pretty risky. If she manages to trot out rote answers without flubbing it'll count as a win for her, because hey, she can speak in sentences now. Biden has to go after her, just with a scalpel, not an axe.
I do like that phrase.
Well, it's "with a scalpel, not a hatchet", but let's not get all nasty on semantics.
I want to see Biden railroad her right into the ground. I don't care if they think he's going to come off as a bully. As a matter of fact, I want to see her cry up there. Call me mysoginisitic if you want, a better descriptor would be vengeful and a bit callous.
Think about it... the only people who would really care if Biden seems to be bullying her would be people that are voting for her in the first place. The undecideds are either going to give her a free pass on the higher progesterone content or not. The way Biden acts won't change it, and if he dances on eggshells around her it may even make people see him as weak.
Despite how well Barack is doing right now, I can only think back to the last time we thought McCain was dead in the water- during the primaries.
I wouldn't count him out yet. He can still make a comeback.
Incidentally, there's an interesting Foreign Affairs article by Holbrooke right now comparing the two foreign policies. I found it a very good "overall summary" of their differences.
McCain cratered in the primaries in July of 2007. It was almost Christmas before he had really come back to the forefront. Even then, people were thinking that Romney had a good shot at the nomination.
He doesn't have 6 months to spare this time.
Obama isn't going to burn out like McCain's primary opponents did.
Yeah, I was under the impression McCain taking the primary was less him doing something than him being the only one sitting when the music stopped in Primary Musical Chairs.
Despite how well Barack is doing right now, I can only think back to the last time we thought McCain was dead in the water- during the primaries.
I wouldn't count him out yet. He can still make a comeback.
Incidentally, there's an interesting Foreign Affairs article by Holbrooke right now comparing the two foreign policies. I found it a very good "overall summary" of their differences.
McCain cratered in the primaries in July of 2007. It was almost Christmas before he had really come back to the forefront. Even then, people were thinking that Romney had a good shot at the nomination.
He doesn't have 6 months to spare this time.
Obama isn't going to burn out like McCain's primary opponents did.
I remember it and I counted him out completely at the time. I really thought Rudy or Romney would be the pick. How did McCain make his comeback anyways?
Could be an indication on how the final week or even election day will go down. From what I read it was similar with the 1980 election. The polls were close but Reagan won in a landslide. But hey, Obama could win in a landslide too. Who... the... fuck... knows...
I remember it and I counted him out completely at the time. I really thought Rudy or Romney would be the pick. How did McCain make his comeback anyways?
Rudy 9/11'd himself out and Romney had teh Mormonism.
And I present this only as evidence that McCain's temper could be the nail in his coffin if he lets it out - and was wondering, with 2 debates left, did McCain actually start to mutter 'horseshit' at the debate?
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She doesn't need to sound like a plausible president ready to take over from McCain if he snuffs it - she needs to just shore up the support she was picked to gee up. She could shrug off the question of readiness for succession by just smiling and saying that McCain has plenty of years left in him and he'll outlive us all ho ho but she's sure that with a strong team surrounding her she'll be ready blah blah. What if they just let her loose and she drags every question kicking and screaming back to Jesus, being pro-life, supporting Israel, general patriotism and maverick maverick. If she manages to get those answers off without falling over herself isn't that surely going to be better than fumbling attempts to remember who the President of Pakistan is? Biden's going to eat her alive if she tries to actually debate him, so the smart move has to be to say screw it and tell her to be as evangelical as she can.
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Nah, in the Seventh-Day-Adventist church it is "highly encouraged" for folk to be vegetarian for their health. 'Cause "your body is the temple of God" and all that.
It should be noted that pork and shellfish are a huge no-no regardless of being a vegetarian or not though.
(used to be adventist. Though I wasn't vegitarian. Also, my parents still think I'm adventist so.... *cough*.)
If I could vote, I'd still vote Obama, but I wouldn't be happy about it. Everybody loves Bill Clinton, but I still remember him allowing the GOP to piggyback legislation on the Higher Education Act to restrict non-violent felony drug offenders from federal education grants. Might not seem so bad, but that's why I had to wait until I was 27 to work on my college degree rather than when I was still 19. A rapist, child molester, murderer, etc. could get an education grant, but I could not. Biden was a proponent of that legislation.
My real point is, don't think that just because he's a Democrat that all's peachy and rosy. The Demoncrats can be just as bad in many ways as the Republicons, and in the end they all answer to the will of their corporate masters above the will of the American people.
Steam ID - BewilderedRonin
Yes, it would.
First, there is no clear evidence that she actually believes that. The information for such claims comes from a rather dubious source, a far-left blogger who is/was a local Alaskan music teacher. Frankly, it's entirely hearsay. He said, she said.
Secondly, it sound patronizing and belittling. Neither of which are very adorable traits for a person to show.
What would work? Ask her why she thinks philosophy constitutes science. Ask her how does one scientifically test for principles of "intelligent design." Watching her fumble, mumble, and try to wrap a sentence around that would clearly expose her as the nitwit that she is. The problem lies that a large percentage of Americans would still be offended by those questions as well. This is a nation where a poll concluded that 60% of people believe in a literal biblical flood, that the story of Noah's Ark really did happen. 61% believe in that the bible's story of creation is literal and not symbolic.
http://www.washtimes.com/news/2004/feb/16/20040216-113955-2061r/
Steam ID - BewilderedRonin
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Broaching the topic of intelligent design as a crock of idiocy is a doomed platform in the USA. This is not like the UK where the notion of intelligent design being introduced into the curriculum creates national uproar against it. Here, people say, "oh, why not." Because it's not science, that's why not.
Anyways, mayhaps we steer this away from intelligent design lest this thread begin to merge ideologically with this one. There are plenty of other things to mention, such as Palin's record of earmarks and bloated budgeting. Or McCain's strong stances against regulation that helped to create our current financial mess...
Steam ID - BewilderedRonin
Sure, she's a laughing stock and an idiot. But she can still do what she was picked for.
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As a professional hitman would. Clean, effective, no more than is necessary.
I also want to see him go absolutely fucking nuclear on her. 3 minutes in. Either way, he's going to look like a bully. Let's all band together to tell people they need to stfu, followed by asking them if they would say "He needs to be nice" if it was George W Bush up there.
I burned out on Sinfest a few years ago but I think I'm going to start reading it again. He's been solid gold lately.
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Wait, I can solve this!
SAT POWERS, ACTIVATE!
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I'll also note that while I think he shouldn't engage the stupid I don't think he will be able to avoid/resist it.
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Steam ID - BewilderedRonin
And so it goes...
Let's be honest. She might tear herself to shreds.
9/30 Daily Kos R2K Tracking Poll: Obama 51, McCain 41
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
1. Show up.
2. Wave penis.
3. Secure conservative vote.
I wouldn't count him out yet. He can still make a comeback.
Incidentally, there's an interesting Foreign Affairs article by Holbrooke right now comparing the two foreign policies. I found it a very good "overall summary" of their differences.
I do like that phrase.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
McCain cratered in the primaries in July of 2007. It was almost Christmas before he had really come back to the forefront. Even then, people were thinking that Romney had a good shot at the nomination.
He doesn't have 6 months to spare this time.
Obama isn't going to burn out like McCain's primary opponents did.
Well, it's "with a scalpel, not a hatchet", but let's not get all nasty on semantics.
I want to see Biden railroad her right into the ground. I don't care if they think he's going to come off as a bully. As a matter of fact, I want to see her cry up there. Call me mysoginisitic if you want, a better descriptor would be vengeful and a bit callous.
Think about it... the only people who would really care if Biden seems to be bullying her would be people that are voting for her in the first place. The undecideds are either going to give her a free pass on the higher progesterone content or not. The way Biden acts won't change it, and if he dances on eggshells around her it may even make people see him as weak.
I say, bury her alive with her own rhetoric.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/25/eveningnews/main4479062.shtml
And the one WITH McCain - Partial
I can't find a full transcript yet, probably be out later today.
edit: wtf 2 TOTPs? Here's a pic of Biden:
I remember it and I counted him out completely at the time. I really thought Rudy or Romney would be the pick. How did McCain make his comeback anyways?
Could be an indication on how the final week or even election day will go down. From what I read it was similar with the 1980 election. The polls were close but Reagan won in a landslide. But hey, Obama could win in a landslide too. Who... the... fuck... knows...
"Not only am I ready, I'm willing and able."
So, just to put it out there - I am ALSO willing and able to be vice president. And I guess that makes me ready.
I'm also willing and able to work at Harmonix making games and to be a zookeeper, so whoever calls first wins!
Horseshit or 'of course it'? I don't see how 'of course it' makes sense in context though...