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Persona 4: Relationships are the Devil.

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Posts

  • PunkBoyPunkBoy Thank you! And thank you again! Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    GAHH

    Dungeon 5 spoilers
    I get the damn statue to down to one more hit, and the bastard hits everyone with Tetrafoo. And then two Megidoloans.

    This game hates me.

    PunkBoy on
    Steam ID:
    steam_sig.png
    The Linecutters Podcast: Your weekly dose of nerd! Tune in for the live broadcast every Wednesday at 7 PM EST, only at www.non-productive.com!
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Man, I never got more than two dudes Feared.

    God damn, I must have made out like a bandit in that fight.

    Elendil on
  • AydrAydr Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Elendil wrote: »
    Man, I never got more than two dudes Feared.

    God damn, I must have made out like a bandit in that fight.

    Seriously.

    Aydr on
  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2008
    Elendil wrote: »
    Man, I never got more than two dudes Feared.

    God damn, I must have made out like a bandit in that fight.

    Yeah, I was getting bullshitted even with his accuracy down and my evasion up.

    A duck! on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Let's have a brief discussion on the ending (assuming there isn't anything else of interest past the "setup" for the True Ending, I haven't actually completed it yet)

    Does anyone else feel a little let down? I watched the bad ending, and I have to admit, that felt like a pretty powerful ending and very appropriate to the story overall.

    The "good" ending, with Nanako magically waking up a few minutes later doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative perspective (given that the bad ending has her stay dead, and there's nothing to suggest that sparing Namatame allowed her to recover). Beyond that, Adachi made for a fucking terrible villain. Besides pointing to him being the villain only at the very end feeling poorly written, I had a hard time being terribly upset with him. Granted, he's the "bad guy", but when his crimes only boil down to killing two people largely unrelated to the cast (aside from Yosuke's crush on Saki), and "hurting" Nanako (who comes out fine if you get to the Adachi reveal, so I'm not counting her death), he just didn't do that much.

    Adding in the ungodly lame "crazy fuck" villain stereotype, rather than him having some kind of reason or logic behind his actions, and I just have a very hard time giving a shit about him either way. The Ameno-Sagiri stuff was pretty terrible too...the last boss is just going to fight me as a test and then leave everyone alone? Again, not particularly inspiring.

    So all of that is said and done, and then we discover that Izanami the gas station attendant was further behind everything? Ugh. It feels like they didn't have a clue how to end the story, so they just ended it several times over, with increasingly absurd explanations for things.

    Tell me I'm not the only one who feels this way. It felt especially disappointing after so many months of interesting dungeons, figuring out possible motives, getting fantastic character development from every member of the cast, only to have the ball dropped at the end.

    edit: Also, I'm kind of annoyed that
    you just jump 3 months ahead after finishing the "final" boss, depriving you of 3 months worth of S Link advancing.

    I disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

    The foreshadowing, like any good detective story, is all over the game. Is it easy to figure out who's who and what's coming? No. But it's definitely there. I can understand how it feels sloppy if you missed it but it all builds up to a much more satisfying conclusion.

    Furu on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited December 2008
    A duck! wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Thetheroo wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Thetheroo wrote: »
    I beat the Mitsuo dungeon at level 40, and damn was it hard. I fused a Dis, and that helped because it had no weaknesses. I switched out for a Neko Shogun when the shell was up.
    This is the
    boss of the Void Quest we're talking about right? The baby thing? Because I actually found it really easy; just wailed away at him, while throwing down a sedative or Mediarama here and there. Dude barely even attacked.

    It was annoying as fuck because if I didn't stop him from getting his shell up then he got a whole bunch of HP back, and I was running low on SP. I also had almost no items at the point.
    Yeah, I don't know what's going on, because I'd heard enough bad things about it to dread going in.
    Then afterwards I was all "huh, that wasn't so bad"

    Maybe I lucked out in not getting the worst of his pattern.

    It all depends on how many status effects he decides to hit you with, and which weakness he decides to peg. I had Teddie and Yosuke, and that jerk loved to throw lightning at me. Your damage output goes down by quite a bit when you're down to 1 person healing and 1 person attacking.

    He attacks you with whatever element of the shield he puts up. And even then only as long as his shield lasts. Then it's rebuilding his shell, status effect attacks, or removing buffs/debuffs, though if he manages to inflict fear, he'll follow it up the next round with whatever that attack is that kills everybody with fear. The baby form is seriously a pathetic joke compared to the shell. Especially the second round of the shell.

    Aroduc on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited December 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Let's have a brief discussion on the ending (assuming there isn't anything else of interest past the "setup" for the True Ending, I haven't actually completed it yet)

    Does anyone else feel a little let down? I watched the bad ending, and I have to admit, that felt like a pretty powerful ending and very appropriate to the story overall.

    The "good" ending, with Nanako magically waking up a few minutes later doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative perspective (given that the bad ending has her stay dead, and there's nothing to suggest that sparing Namatame allowed her to recover). Beyond that, Adachi made for a fucking terrible villain. Besides pointing to him being the villain only at the very end feeling poorly written, I had a hard time being terribly upset with him. Granted, he's the "bad guy", but when his crimes only boil down to killing two people largely unrelated to the cast (aside from Yosuke's crush on Saki), and "hurting" Nanako (who comes out fine if you get to the Adachi reveal, so I'm not counting her death), he just didn't do that much.

    Adding in the ungodly lame "crazy fuck" villain stereotype, rather than him having some kind of reason or logic behind his actions, and I just have a very hard time giving a shit about him either way. The Ameno-Sagiri stuff was pretty terrible too...the last boss is just going to fight me as a test and then leave everyone alone? Again, not particularly inspiring.

    So all of that is said and done, and then we discover that Izanami the gas station attendant was further behind everything? Ugh. It feels like they didn't have a clue how to end the story, so they just ended it several times over, with increasingly absurd explanations for things.

    Tell me I'm not the only one who feels this way. It felt especially disappointing after so many months of interesting dungeons, figuring out possible motives, getting fantastic character development from every member of the cast, only to have the ball dropped at the end.

    edit: Also, I'm kind of annoyed that
    you just jump 3 months ahead after finishing the "final" boss, depriving you of 3 months worth of S Link advancing.

    I disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

    The foreshadowing, like any good detective story, is all over the game. Is it easy to figure out who's who and what's coming? No. But it's definitely there. I can understand how it feels sloppy if you missed it but it all builds up to a much more satisfying conclusion.
    Nametame was pretty obvious though.

    HMM HMM HMM, who is this strange person with a proper name and a portrait who keeps going on about how evil affairs are and being generally unhinged but cannot be S.Linked to? I mean, he's only hanging around town for 6 months without doing anything. I wonder what his deal could be.
    Dot dot dot

    Aroduc on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Furu wrote: »
    Let's have a brief discussion on the ending (assuming there isn't anything else of interest past the "setup" for the True Ending, I haven't actually completed it yet)

    Does anyone else feel a little let down? I watched the bad ending, and I have to admit, that felt like a pretty powerful ending and very appropriate to the story overall.

    The "good" ending, with Nanako magically waking up a few minutes later doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative perspective (given that the bad ending has her stay dead, and there's nothing to suggest that sparing Namatame allowed her to recover). Beyond that, Adachi made for a fucking terrible villain. Besides pointing to him being the villain only at the very end feeling poorly written, I had a hard time being terribly upset with him. Granted, he's the "bad guy", but when his crimes only boil down to killing two people largely unrelated to the cast (aside from Yosuke's crush on Saki), and "hurting" Nanako (who comes out fine if you get to the Adachi reveal, so I'm not counting her death), he just didn't do that much.

    Adding in the ungodly lame "crazy fuck" villain stereotype, rather than him having some kind of reason or logic behind his actions, and I just have a very hard time giving a shit about him either way. The Ameno-Sagiri stuff was pretty terrible too...the last boss is just going to fight me as a test and then leave everyone alone? Again, not particularly inspiring.

    So all of that is said and done, and then we discover that Izanami the gas station attendant was further behind everything? Ugh. It feels like they didn't have a clue how to end the story, so they just ended it several times over, with increasingly absurd explanations for things.

    Tell me I'm not the only one who feels this way. It felt especially disappointing after so many months of interesting dungeons, figuring out possible motives, getting fantastic character development from every member of the cast, only to have the ball dropped at the end.

    edit: Also, I'm kind of annoyed that
    you just jump 3 months ahead after finishing the "final" boss, depriving you of 3 months worth of S Link advancing.

    I disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

    The foreshadowing, like any good detective story, is all over the game. Is it easy to figure out who's who and what's coming? No. But it's definitely there. I can understand how it feels sloppy if you missed it but it all builds up to a much more satisfying conclusion.
    Nametame was pretty obvious though.

    HMM HMM HMM, who is this strange person with a proper name and a portrait who keeps going on about how evil affairs are and being generally unhinged but cannot be S.Linked to? I mean, he's only hanging around town for 6 months without doing anything. I wonder what his deal could be.
    Dot dot dot

    Oh yes. But he was also too obvious.

    Furu on
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I know I'm a little LTTP - you guys have all been enjoying it since the 8th and you've moved on from initial impressions to plot deconstruction and battle tactics - but I finally got my hands on P4 tonight and... wow.

    I figured if I ever wanted to run through P3 again, I'd want to play the FES version. So after picking FES up this past week, running through the first five or so hours, and then sinking three hours into P4 tonight - Persona 4 really is astonishing, in how much of a leap it is over P3. (I know, I've played about 1/50th of the full game, but) the narrative, the writing, the storytelling are all like... it makes P3 look like practice, compared to this. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

    I know you all didn't need to hear my endorsement, but after getting a taste of it tonight I needed to gush over it a little, and this is kinda' the place for it.

    Carry on then, endgame tactics and [spoilered] plot spoilers, et cetera...

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • PunkBoyPunkBoy Thank you! And thank you again! Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Hey, gushing over 4 is perfectly welcome here, I believe. :P

    And you are right. 4 is much deeper and better than 3.

    December boss spoiler
    Argh, wiped out on the second form. I may need to sacrifice Yosuke to debuff the eye thing before he does the laser attack...

    PunkBoy on
    Steam ID:
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    The Linecutters Podcast: Your weekly dose of nerd! Tune in for the live broadcast every Wednesday at 7 PM EST, only at www.non-productive.com!
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    PunkBoy wrote: »
    Hey, gushing over 4 is perfectly welcome here, I believe. :P

    And you are right. 4 is much deeper and better than 3.

    December boss spoiler
    Argh, wiped out on the second form. I may need to sacrifice Yosuke to debuff the eye thing before he does the laser attack...
    Just guard. It shouldn't do more than 200 with a charge that way.

    Arkady on
    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • PunkBoyPunkBoy Thank you! And thank you again! Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    End game spoilers.
    Oh, I can take the first shot. It's the follow up Megidola that gets me. :P

    *sigh*

    Oh, got it on the second try. After the first attack, it decided to use Dekunda...even though I didn't debuff him...

    *shrug*

    Ahahaha
    "Woo...hoo"

    PunkBoy on
    Steam ID:
    steam_sig.png
    The Linecutters Podcast: Your weekly dose of nerd! Tune in for the live broadcast every Wednesday at 7 PM EST, only at www.non-productive.com!
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I do so very much love losing eight tedious floors of quest item collection to the first Hama ever to be cast on my main in 35 hours

    Elendil on
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Man you guys weren't kidding about that death s.link. :|

    Arkady on
    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Hmm... I've never chosen to take a Lunchtime S.Link request yet, but I've been wondering if they provide anything different from choosing to hang out with them normally. Some sort of bonus, perhaps?

    MrBlarney on
    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Hmm... I've never chosen to take a Lunchtime S.Link request yet, but I've been wondering if they provide anything different from choosing to hang out with them normally. Some sort of bonus, perhaps?

    I've been assuming it's the same as it was in P3, which is to say, if you go out with those people that day it'd a guaranteed link up.

    Arkady on
    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • Chrono HelixChrono Helix Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    noweat wrote: »
    i'm just running in circles in magatsu inaba. am i missing something obvious?

    on the plus side my guys are about 11 levels higher than when i started but still
    Have you jumped into the pit on the 2nd floor yet? From there it's just a steady descent to the mid-boss, then you can go back and unlock that area on the 2nd floor.

    Chrono Helix on
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Arkady wrote: »
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Hmm... I've never chosen to take a Lunchtime S.Link request yet, but I've been wondering if they provide anything different from choosing to hang out with them normally. Some sort of bonus, perhaps?

    I've been assuming it's the same as it was in P3, which is to say, if you go out with those people that day it'd a guaranteed link up.

    Hmm... that's quite possible, though I'm having trouble remembering if I've seen the same people simply go by at lunch or come by with a direct request. I suppose a good test would be to have a save before such an encounter and then see the results when accepting during lunchtime versus accepting after school, though it might be in fact that such encounters only happen when a rank up is going to occur anyways.

    MrBlarney on
    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Let's have a brief discussion on the ending (assuming there isn't anything else of interest past the "setup" for the True Ending, I haven't actually completed it yet)

    Does anyone else feel a little let down? I watched the bad ending, and I have to admit, that felt like a pretty powerful ending and very appropriate to the story overall.

    The "good" ending, with Nanako magically waking up a few minutes later doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative perspective (given that the bad ending has her stay dead, and there's nothing to suggest that sparing Namatame allowed her to recover). Beyond that, Adachi made for a fucking terrible villain. Besides pointing to him being the villain only at the very end feeling poorly written, I had a hard time being terribly upset with him. Granted, he's the "bad guy", but when his crimes only boil down to killing two people largely unrelated to the cast (aside from Yosuke's crush on Saki), and "hurting" Nanako (who comes out fine if you get to the Adachi reveal, so I'm not counting her death), he just didn't do that much.

    Adding in the ungodly lame "crazy fuck" villain stereotype, rather than him having some kind of reason or logic behind his actions, and I just have a very hard time giving a shit about him either way. The Ameno-Sagiri stuff was pretty terrible too...the last boss is just going to fight me as a test and then leave everyone alone? Again, not particularly inspiring.

    So all of that is said and done, and then we discover that Izanami the gas station attendant was further behind everything? Ugh. It feels like they didn't have a clue how to end the story, so they just ended it several times over, with increasingly absurd explanations for things.

    Tell me I'm not the only one who feels this way. It felt especially disappointing after so many months of interesting dungeons, figuring out possible motives, getting fantastic character development from every member of the cast, only to have the ball dropped at the end.

    edit: Also, I'm kind of annoyed that
    you just jump 3 months ahead after finishing the "final" boss, depriving you of 3 months worth of S Link advancing.

    I disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

    The foreshadowing, like any good detective story, is all over the game. Is it easy to figure out who's who and what's coming? No. But it's definitely there. I can understand how it feels sloppy if you missed it but it all builds up to a much more satisfying conclusion.
    The final verdict of "whodunit" (as far as humans go) doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of motive or the moving target of who is "really" behind things. First it's Adachi, then no, it's Ameno-Sagiri, then no, it's Izanami, who somehow *NONE* of the Inaba gang manage to recall was a decaying angry goddess circa several thousand years ago.

    Still though, I feel like the bad ending makes for a much more satisfying conclusion to the story (not to mention a more original and interesting one) than the painfully cliche (which is unusual in SMT games) "It was all some evil god plotting everything, but blaming the events on humans".

    Vincent Grayson on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Let's have a brief discussion on the ending (assuming there isn't anything else of interest past the "setup" for the True Ending, I haven't actually completed it yet)

    Does anyone else feel a little let down? I watched the bad ending, and I have to admit, that felt like a pretty powerful ending and very appropriate to the story overall.

    The "good" ending, with Nanako magically waking up a few minutes later doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative perspective (given that the bad ending has her stay dead, and there's nothing to suggest that sparing Namatame allowed her to recover). Beyond that, Adachi made for a fucking terrible villain. Besides pointing to him being the villain only at the very end feeling poorly written, I had a hard time being terribly upset with him. Granted, he's the "bad guy", but when his crimes only boil down to killing two people largely unrelated to the cast (aside from Yosuke's crush on Saki), and "hurting" Nanako (who comes out fine if you get to the Adachi reveal, so I'm not counting her death), he just didn't do that much.

    Adding in the ungodly lame "crazy fuck" villain stereotype, rather than him having some kind of reason or logic behind his actions, and I just have a very hard time giving a shit about him either way. The Ameno-Sagiri stuff was pretty terrible too...the last boss is just going to fight me as a test and then leave everyone alone? Again, not particularly inspiring.

    So all of that is said and done, and then we discover that Izanami the gas station attendant was further behind everything? Ugh. It feels like they didn't have a clue how to end the story, so they just ended it several times over, with increasingly absurd explanations for things.

    Tell me I'm not the only one who feels this way. It felt especially disappointing after so many months of interesting dungeons, figuring out possible motives, getting fantastic character development from every member of the cast, only to have the ball dropped at the end.

    edit: Also, I'm kind of annoyed that
    you just jump 3 months ahead after finishing the "final" boss, depriving you of 3 months worth of S Link advancing.

    I disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

    The foreshadowing, like any good detective story, is all over the game. Is it easy to figure out who's who and what's coming? No. But it's definitely there. I can understand how it feels sloppy if you missed it but it all builds up to a much more satisfying conclusion.
    The final verdict of "whodunit" (as far as humans go) doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of motive or the moving target of who is "really" behind things. First it's Adachi, then no, it's Ameno-Sagiri, then no, it's Izanami, who somehow *NONE* of the Inaba gang manage to recall was a decaying angry goddess circa several thousand years ago.

    Still though, I feel like the bad ending makes for a much more satisfying conclusion to the story (not to mention a more original and interesting one) than the painfully cliche (which is unusual in SMT games) "It was all some evil god plotting everything, but blaming the events on humans".
    Lack of motive? They spell it out for you! Adachi is a woman-hating sociopath who recieved power from Izanami and Izanami in her skewed perspective thinks being drowned in fog is what humanity really wants. Were you paying attention during any of the end points of the game?

    The bad ending was the bad ending for a reason. There's nothing original or interesting about "You killed the guy who it made no sense for him to be behind anything, your cousin died, and Inaba was probably destroyed after you left. Yay." It's a punishment for being a bad detective.

    Furu on
  • RedMageDarionRedMageDarion Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So I just made it to December (now at 12/06)

    SPOILERS
    Holy shit they scared me.

    Nanako dying was made even more devastating by the fact that I only managed to get her S. Link to rank 9.

    I... I get her back right? I really want to finish that S. Link...

    RedMageDarion on
    Pokemon White - 3954.6369.6328
  • CygnusZCygnusZ Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So I just made it to December (now at 12/06)

    SPOILERS
    Holy shit they scared me.

    Nanako dying was made even more devastating by the fact that I only managed to get her S. Link to rank 9.

    I... I get her back right? I really want to finish that S. Link...
    No

    CygnusZ on
  • RedMageDarionRedMageDarion Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    CygnusZ wrote: »
    So I just made it to December (now at 12/06)

    SPOILERS
    Holy shit they scared me.

    Nanako dying was made even more devastating by the fact that I only managed to get her S. Link to rank 9.

    I... I get her back right? I really want to finish that S. Link...
    No
    Well... fucking shitballs.

    :(

    RedMageDarion on
    Pokemon White - 3954.6369.6328
  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Columbia, SCRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Arkady wrote: »
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Hmm... I've never chosen to take a Lunchtime S.Link request yet, but I've been wondering if they provide anything different from choosing to hang out with them normally. Some sort of bonus, perhaps?

    I've been assuming it's the same as it was in P3, which is to say, if you go out with those people that day it'd a guaranteed link up.

    Hmm... that's quite possible, though I'm having trouble remembering if I've seen the same people simply go by at lunch or come by with a direct request. I suppose a good test would be to have a save before such an encounter and then see the results when accepting during lunchtime versus accepting after school, though it might be in fact that such encounters only happen when a rank up is going to occur anyways.

    According to a FAQ I read it provides a relationship multiplier, similar to (and stacking with) bringing a matching Persona. I suspect it only happens when you're already going to rank up, so the real test would be whether you rank up on the next encounter.

    FunkyWaltDogg on
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Furu wrote: »
    Let's have a brief discussion on the ending (assuming there isn't anything else of interest past the "setup" for the True Ending, I haven't actually completed it yet)

    Does anyone else feel a little let down? I watched the bad ending, and I have to admit, that felt like a pretty powerful ending and very appropriate to the story overall.

    The "good" ending, with Nanako magically waking up a few minutes later doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative perspective (given that the bad ending has her stay dead, and there's nothing to suggest that sparing Namatame allowed her to recover). Beyond that, Adachi made for a fucking terrible villain. Besides pointing to him being the villain only at the very end feeling poorly written, I had a hard time being terribly upset with him. Granted, he's the "bad guy", but when his crimes only boil down to killing two people largely unrelated to the cast (aside from Yosuke's crush on Saki), and "hurting" Nanako (who comes out fine if you get to the Adachi reveal, so I'm not counting her death), he just didn't do that much.

    Adding in the ungodly lame "crazy fuck" villain stereotype, rather than him having some kind of reason or logic behind his actions, and I just have a very hard time giving a shit about him either way. The Ameno-Sagiri stuff was pretty terrible too...the last boss is just going to fight me as a test and then leave everyone alone? Again, not particularly inspiring.

    So all of that is said and done, and then we discover that Izanami the gas station attendant was further behind everything? Ugh. It feels like they didn't have a clue how to end the story, so they just ended it several times over, with increasingly absurd explanations for things.

    Tell me I'm not the only one who feels this way. It felt especially disappointing after so many months of interesting dungeons, figuring out possible motives, getting fantastic character development from every member of the cast, only to have the ball dropped at the end.

    edit: Also, I'm kind of annoyed that
    you just jump 3 months ahead after finishing the "final" boss, depriving you of 3 months worth of S Link advancing.

    I disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

    The foreshadowing, like any good detective story, is all over the game. Is it easy to figure out who's who and what's coming? No. But it's definitely there. I can understand how it feels sloppy if you missed it but it all builds up to a much more satisfying conclusion.
    The final verdict of "whodunit" (as far as humans go) doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of motive or the moving target of who is "really" behind things. First it's Adachi, then no, it's Ameno-Sagiri, then no, it's Izanami, who somehow *NONE* of the Inaba gang manage to recall was a decaying angry goddess circa several thousand years ago.

    Still though, I feel like the bad ending makes for a much more satisfying conclusion to the story (not to mention a more original and interesting one) than the painfully cliche (which is unusual in SMT games) "It was all some evil god plotting everything, but blaming the events on humans".
    Lack of motive? They spell it out for you! Adachi is a woman-hating sociopath who recieved power from Izanami and Izanami in her skewed perspective thinks being drowned in fog is what humanity really wants. Were you paying attention during any of the end points of the game?

    The bad ending was the bad ending for a reason. There's nothing original or interesting about "You killed the guy who it made no sense for him to be behind anything, your cousin died, and Inaba was probably destroyed after you left. Yay." It's a punishment for being a bad detective.
    I was, yes. Adachi just being a sociopath is boring as fuck. Izanami's motive being "this is what mankind wants" is boring as fuck. It was a shitty resolution to a really awesome build-up.

    I liked the bad ending because it felt like a much more original concept...to pick the obvious answer, and push the dude into the TV and let that be that. To have Nanako's death be tragic and awful, rather than something that only happens for a few minutes like it's Final Fantasy 4 or some bullshit.

    Sure, maybe it's not the proper ending for a game, but I liked it, and it felt thematically appropriate.

    edit: If nothing else, Nanako should have at least stayed dead in the proper ending, as it would have made hunting down and stopping Adachi more poignant.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • mastriusmastrius Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Furu wrote: »
    Let's have a brief discussion on the ending (assuming there isn't anything else of interest past the "setup" for the True Ending, I haven't actually completed it yet)

    Does anyone else feel a little let down? I watched the bad ending, and I have to admit, that felt like a pretty powerful ending and very appropriate to the story overall.

    The "good" ending, with Nanako magically waking up a few minutes later doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative perspective (given that the bad ending has her stay dead, and there's nothing to suggest that sparing Namatame allowed her to recover). Beyond that, Adachi made for a fucking terrible villain. Besides pointing to him being the villain only at the very end feeling poorly written, I had a hard time being terribly upset with him. Granted, he's the "bad guy", but when his crimes only boil down to killing two people largely unrelated to the cast (aside from Yosuke's crush on Saki), and "hurting" Nanako (who comes out fine if you get to the Adachi reveal, so I'm not counting her death), he just didn't do that much.

    Adding in the ungodly lame "crazy fuck" villain stereotype, rather than him having some kind of reason or logic behind his actions, and I just have a very hard time giving a shit about him either way. The Ameno-Sagiri stuff was pretty terrible too...the last boss is just going to fight me as a test and then leave everyone alone? Again, not particularly inspiring.

    So all of that is said and done, and then we discover that Izanami the gas station attendant was further behind everything? Ugh. It feels like they didn't have a clue how to end the story, so they just ended it several times over, with increasingly absurd explanations for things.

    Tell me I'm not the only one who feels this way. It felt especially disappointing after so many months of interesting dungeons, figuring out possible motives, getting fantastic character development from every member of the cast, only to have the ball dropped at the end.

    edit: Also, I'm kind of annoyed that
    you just jump 3 months ahead after finishing the "final" boss, depriving you of 3 months worth of S Link advancing.

    I disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

    The foreshadowing, like any good detective story, is all over the game. Is it easy to figure out who's who and what's coming? No. But it's definitely there. I can understand how it feels sloppy if you missed it but it all builds up to a much more satisfying conclusion.
    The final verdict of "whodunit" (as far as humans go) doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of motive or the moving target of who is "really" behind things. First it's Adachi, then no, it's Ameno-Sagiri, then no, it's Izanami, who somehow *NONE* of the Inaba gang manage to recall was a decaying angry goddess circa several thousand years ago.

    Still though, I feel like the bad ending makes for a much more satisfying conclusion to the story (not to mention a more original and interesting one) than the painfully cliche (which is unusual in SMT games) "It was all some evil god plotting everything, but blaming the events on humans".
    Lack of motive? They spell it out for you! Adachi is a woman-hating sociopath who recieved power from Izanami and Izanami in her skewed perspective thinks being drowned in fog is what humanity really wants. Were you paying attention during any of the end points of the game?

    The bad ending was the bad ending for a reason. There's nothing original or interesting about "You killed the guy who it made no sense for him to be behind anything, your cousin died, and Inaba was probably destroyed after you left. Yay." It's a punishment for being a bad detective.

    I do believe I already posted on this.
    I remember making a post saying something along the lines of "some people will bitch because it will feel like they just kept throwing people at you and saying it was them." But in my mind it doesnt feel that way. Its YOUR own fault if you didnt see this coming or who did it. Not the games fault by hiding it so well. Go play through the game again fully knowing everything and youll see the subtle clues, the subtle facts, everything they gave to you right there. I thought this game had one of the greatest game stories Ive ever gone through and Im happy to go through a second time just for it. Not to mention I get to go back through knowing things already and seeing where they dropped hints/ red herrings to throw us off. I LOVED this story, its an amazing detective story and I found nothing wrong with it.

    mastrius on
    "You're like a kitten! A kitten who doesn't speak Japanese." ~ Juliet Starling
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fifth dungeon boss was a joke.
    I even took Teddie and Yosuke, both weak to Lightning, and still won. Mind Charge + Rakunda + Matarukaja +Megidola probably helped a lot.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • mastriusmastrius Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Furu wrote: »
    Let's have a brief discussion on the ending (assuming there isn't anything else of interest past the "setup" for the True Ending, I haven't actually completed it yet)

    Does anyone else feel a little let down? I watched the bad ending, and I have to admit, that felt like a pretty powerful ending and very appropriate to the story overall.

    The "good" ending, with Nanako magically waking up a few minutes later doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative perspective (given that the bad ending has her stay dead, and there's nothing to suggest that sparing Namatame allowed her to recover). Beyond that, Adachi made for a fucking terrible villain. Besides pointing to him being the villain only at the very end feeling poorly written, I had a hard time being terribly upset with him. Granted, he's the "bad guy", but when his crimes only boil down to killing two people largely unrelated to the cast (aside from Yosuke's crush on Saki), and "hurting" Nanako (who comes out fine if you get to the Adachi reveal, so I'm not counting her death), he just didn't do that much.

    Adding in the ungodly lame "crazy fuck" villain stereotype, rather than him having some kind of reason or logic behind his actions, and I just have a very hard time giving a shit about him either way. The Ameno-Sagiri stuff was pretty terrible too...the last boss is just going to fight me as a test and then leave everyone alone? Again, not particularly inspiring.

    So all of that is said and done, and then we discover that Izanami the gas station attendant was further behind everything? Ugh. It feels like they didn't have a clue how to end the story, so they just ended it several times over, with increasingly absurd explanations for things.

    Tell me I'm not the only one who feels this way. It felt especially disappointing after so many months of interesting dungeons, figuring out possible motives, getting fantastic character development from every member of the cast, only to have the ball dropped at the end.

    edit: Also, I'm kind of annoyed that
    you just jump 3 months ahead after finishing the "final" boss, depriving you of 3 months worth of S Link advancing.

    I disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

    The foreshadowing, like any good detective story, is all over the game. Is it easy to figure out who's who and what's coming? No. But it's definitely there. I can understand how it feels sloppy if you missed it but it all builds up to a much more satisfying conclusion.
    The final verdict of "whodunit" (as far as humans go) doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of motive or the moving target of who is "really" behind things. First it's Adachi, then no, it's Ameno-Sagiri, then no, it's Izanami, who somehow *NONE* of the Inaba gang manage to recall was a decaying angry goddess circa several thousand years ago.

    Still though, I feel like the bad ending makes for a much more satisfying conclusion to the story (not to mention a more original and interesting one) than the painfully cliche (which is unusual in SMT games) "It was all some evil god plotting everything, but blaming the events on humans".
    Lack of motive? They spell it out for you! Adachi is a woman-hating sociopath who recieved power from Izanami and Izanami in her skewed perspective thinks being drowned in fog is what humanity really wants. Were you paying attention during any of the end points of the game?

    The bad ending was the bad ending for a reason. There's nothing original or interesting about "You killed the guy who it made no sense for him to be behind anything, your cousin died, and Inaba was probably destroyed after you left. Yay." It's a punishment for being a bad detective.
    I was, yes. Adachi just being a sociopath is boring as fuck. Izanami's motive being "this is what mankind wants" is boring as fuck. It was a shitty resolution to a really awesome build-up.

    I liked the bad ending because it felt like a much more original concept...to pick the obvious answer, and push the dude into the TV and let that be that. To have Nanako's death be tragic and awful, rather than something that only happens for a few minutes like it's Final Fantasy 4 or some bullshit.

    Sure, maybe it's not the proper ending for a game, but I liked it, and it felt thematically appropriate.

    edit: If nothing else, Nanako should have at least stayed dead in the proper ending, as it would have made hunting down and stopping Adachi more poignant.
    see but thats where we all differ. Pushing him into the TV and her dying is bad. He didnt REALLY kill everyone. It wasnt his fault. So to push him in and kill him and have her die is just a bad thing. YOu didnt catch the killer, you didnt do anything. I actually thought it was Namatame right from the beginning and once I found out it wasnt I was like..."what the fuck?" and it just made me more intrigued. The whole thing with keeping him alive rather than pushing him in is great because if you actually think about things it all makes sense that he didnt do it. they make you think he did, but it wasnt him at all, and I like that. It was susprising to me. To think all along Adachi was dropping fake hints in front of you to throw you off and make you fuck around more with the fake killer whos been trying to save people all along really pissed me off. He was fucking TOYING with you ALL that time. All the while perfectly hiding things so we didnt notice he did it. It was great.

    Also, hunting him down and stopping him seemed like the right thing to do. I mean...he DID sort of KILL two people, not to mentioned fuck with EVERYONE for almost a whole year. Push you guys in the wrong direction, and totally misguide your thoughts on everything. He was a clear-cut asshole who needed to be stopped. He made a game of cat and mouse out of you and another guy who were trying to stop the murders for nearly a year. And that doesnt give incentive to stop him?

    mastrius on
    "You're like a kitten! A kitten who doesn't speak Japanese." ~ Juliet Starling
  • MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Couple of curiousities I wanted to ask about this series.

    1) How accurate is this for everyday life of a modern Japanese HS kid?
    2) How much have they changed things between the Japanese and American versions? I have noticed a few places that seem like they left something out, or faded to black early.
    3) Whats the deal with the running kid? On days that you are going to school and they show a scene of you walking and either talking to a friend or listening to others, it always irises closed as someone runs by. Is that an in joke or just a coincidence?

    thanks for any anwsers you have :)

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Monkeydrye wrote: »
    Couple of curiousities I wanted to ask about this series.

    1) How accurate is this for everyday life of a modern Japanese HS kid?
    2) How much have they changed things between the Japanese and American versions? I have noticed a few places that seem like they left something out, or faded to black early.
    3) Whats the deal with the running kid? On days that you are going to school and they show a scene of you walking and either talking to a friend or listening to others, it always irises closed as someone runs by. Is that an in joke or just a coincidence?

    thanks for any anwsers you have :)

    1) Far as I know, school is life, and everything else comes second. If you don't score good grades on entrance exams and make it into a good college, nothing else matters. Attending college is more expected than optional in Japan, I think.

    2) Atlus always says they don't change anything. I guess that's just how they like closing scenes, i.e. 'you took so-and-so home'(I'm still not too fond of the game skipping events like that).

    3) Just someone who's always in a hurry, like in P3.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Monkeydrye wrote: »
    Couple of curiousities I wanted to ask about this series.

    1) How accurate is this for everyday life of a modern Japanese HS kid?
    2) How much have they changed things between the Japanese and American versions? I have noticed a few places that seem like they left something out, or faded to black early.
    3) Whats the deal with the running kid? On days that you are going to school and they show a scene of you walking and either talking to a friend or listening to others, it always irises closed as someone runs by. Is that an in joke or just a coincidence?

    thanks for any anwsers you have :)

    1) Far as I know, school is life, and everything else comes second. If you don't score good grades on entrance exams and make it into a good college, nothing else matters. Attending college is more expected than optional in Japan, I think.

    2) Atlus always says they don't change anything. I guess that's just how they like closing scenes, i.e. 'you took so-and-so home'(I'm still not too fond of the game skipping events like that).

    3) Just someone who's always in a hurry, like in P3.

    Thanks for the info. As for #2, I just wondered if there might have been things they had to edit out for ratings reasons. Once scene comes to mind.
    All the gals are in the hot springs. And talking after they have pummeled the guys with buckets. As it ends, Chei makes a motion with no voice or dialogue and then all the girls laugh (this DOES have sound). I wondered if Chei made a comment that wouldn't be appropriate in the states but is less frowned upon in Japan.

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    It took a crazy amount of willpower, but I turned down Ai due to the relationship with Yukiko. :|

    I don't think it makes me that bad a person.
    At least she has another option.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It took a crazy amount of willpower, but I turned down Ai due to the relationship with Yukiko. :|

    I don't think it makes me that bad a person.
    At least she has another option.
    I'm probably not even going to finish that link unless I have hella time left. I wanted to like her, I really did.

    I just maxed Yukiko, I think I'll go for Rise too. I can't chooooooose.

    Elendil on
  • Radikal_DreamerRadikal_Dreamer Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It took a crazy amount of willpower, but I turned down Ai due to the relationship with Yukiko. :|

    I don't think it makes me that bad a person.
    At least she has another option.

    It takes a crazy amount of willpower not to use the nastiest possible options with Ai in order to get her pissed off, as I really, really hate her.

    Radikal_Dreamer on
    theincidentsig.jpg
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It took a crazy amount of willpower, but I turned down Ai due to the relationship with Yukiko. :|

    I don't think it makes me that bad a person.
    At least she has another option.

    It takes a crazy amount of willpower not to use the nastiest possible options with Ai in order to get her pissed off, as I really, really hate her.
    Whenever I fuck up my lunch, I invite her.

    Elendil on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Ai's a lot different than you all think. Wait'll see you see Rank4/5.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I actually felt bad when I turned down Yukiko since it's so incredibly clear she hasa crush on you and when you put her in the Friend Zone she's all "Oh...yeah...of course we're just friends! Hahaha...ha."

    So I made up for that by going with Rise, Chie, and Naoto.

    Furu on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    I actually felt bad when I turned down Yukiko since it's so incredibly clear she hasa crush on you and when you put her in the Friend Zone she's all "Oh...yeah...of course we're just friends! Hahaha...ha."

    So I made up for that by going with Rise, Chie, and Naoto.

    You, sir, are a true gentlemen.

    Dragkonias on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    When the game explicitly said "you are already in another relationship" at the point Ai showed an interest(which is early), it sort of made me nervous.

    I already had Yukiko break up a Sunday date with her. I don't think Ai took kindly to being hit with Agilao.
    No that didn't happen, but it should've
    The competition's down! I must strike!

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I got to the September trip last night. It was the greatest thing.
    Teddie pulling a Strega. Oh my god.

    Teddie: #3 gives me smooch. For the love of God, give me a girl...
    Kanji: Gyah!

    Elendil on
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