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[WAR] Crafters: I fertilized your seed with my clotted gore.

SWATJesterSWATJester Registered User regular
edited October 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
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In this thread, we discuss the various crafting/gathering professions of Warhammer.

Warhammer has two kinds of trade professions: Gathering, and Crafting, and you can choose one of each. Now, it seems obvious but gathering skills get you materials (usually off of things you kill); Crafting skills expend your materials to make or enhance things. So without further ado, your trade skills.

Gathering Skills

Cultivating
Cultivating is perhaps the most unique tradeskill in Warhammer. Essentially, it lets you grow weeds and fungi, which can then be used in various apothecary potions. Understandably, Cultivating synergies very well with Apothecary (you can be your own potion factory).

Cultivating does not require a specific location; it's entirely conducted through your skills menu ("V" hotkey). You have up to 4 plots that you can plant spores (for fungi) and seeds (for weeds) in, starting with just a single plot at level 1, and gaining another ever 50 levels of tradeskill. The process works like this: You first put the seed or spore into the plot, which starts a count down timer for the Germination stage. This timer is usually between 1 and 2 minutes, and can be reduced in half by adding soil. When the timer counts down, it moves to the Seedling stage, where the countdown timer can again be reduced by using watering cans. When the timer counts down again, it moves on to the Flowering stage, which works just like the others, and the timer can be reduced by applying gore, or blood. Once the Flowering stage is over, simply click the "Harvest" button and you now have that weed or fungus in your inventory.

As an added bonus, there is a chance to get your seed/spore back when harvesting. This chance is increased when you use the supplemental materials (watering cans, gore, and soil). The bonus seed will take 50% longer to germinate than its parent did, and has a similar chance to spawn its own bonus seed.

Remember, you don't have to use the supplemental materials, it will just take longer. This might be a good thing in a Scenario, as it doesn't require you to pay any attention: just put your seeds in and go.
Salvaging
Salvaging is very similar to Disenchanting for World of Warcraft veterans. By salvaging a green or better quality armor or weapon, you can create salvaging materials, which generally are used in Talisman Making. Obviously, this is the best synergy for Salvaging, but it can be an appropriate skill for anyone, since you'll run through gear like mad, and can make a bit of extra money this way (Salvaging materials tend to sell for significantly higher prices than other gathering crafts).

When using the Magical Salvaging ability on an item, you'll either succeed and gain a fragment (the primary ingredient in Talisman Making) or a scrap, which can be combined to make essences (secondary ingredients in Talisman Making). Obviously, fragments are much more valuable, especially since salvaging is the only way to get them. Furthermore, because talismans are not permanent (except in rare cases), there will always be a need for salvaging.

Butchering
Butchering is the skinning of non-sentient mobs. If you have rights to the mob, you can skin it for some extra loot. (If you don't have rights, you'll get them after a period of time where the owner does not butcher the mob). Butchering synergies ok with cultivating (which unfortunately you can't double up on) in that you will often butcher blood and gore that can be used as nutrients for the final cultivation stage. A better synergy is with Apothecary, where several of your butchering loots will be good supplemental ingredients for a potion; and you can double up on it.

Butchering is also very quick to raise. In a single run of the "Burning Windmill" Chapter 2 Order Public Quest for example, one can raise Butchering to 51 (the limit in Tier 1) just off Seeker Horrors. Any public quest which has a stage requiring the killing of large numbers (75+) of non-sentient mobs will be a good leveling spot.

Scavaging
Scavaging is the sentient mob version of Butchering. Scavaging tends to lend itself to synergies with Talisman Making (you find lots of curios) and Cultivation (you find lots of watering cans). Other than the type of loot found, it's identical to butchering.

Crafting Skills: Currently there are only Apothecary and Talisman Making, though Mythic intends to add more. Note that currently all crafting skills require a "container" of sorts, and in the event of a failed crafting attempt, you only lose your container. Lower level containers can be bought, but higher level ones come from public quest loot.

Apothecary
Apothecary is used to create Potions, Dyes and Gold Essences. Dyes are currently pretty rare, in that the pigments for them do not drop often off of mobs, nor do they spawn often off of cultivations. Gold Essences are used to aid in Talisman Making, and such are not something that the Apothecary can himself actually use. Therefore, the bulk of your work will involve potions. Since most potions use materials developed through cultivation, it's clearly the best synergy for you to train your gathering skills in if you intend to do Apothecary.

Potions require 2 ingredients minimum: A container (vials) and a main ingredient (determines the type of potion made). Most people will not be able to successfully craft without a third ingredient: stabilizing water. The quality of water determines the stability of the potion. Other materials can effect other aspects: supplemental ingredients can increase the number of potions created, or the duration of the potion.

You'll note there is a little bar on the side of your skill menu, that has an arrow bouncing up and down. This is the stability bar. It tells you what the chances are of your potion failing, being volatile, or stable. Testing seems to show that the bar's bouncing doesn't actually effect your chances (i.e., you don't get a better potion if you do it at the top of the bar, rather than the bottom); but rather it's a visual indicator of the range of results possible. Better quality water (ranging from cloudy, to glowing) will increase the stability. Higher quality materials will increase the potency of the potion. Higher quality potions obviously have higher level requirements: even at low levels it is entirely possible to craft a potion that you simply can't use yet for several ranks. Note that cultivators can grow rare stabilizing waters, but this only comes from spectacular harvests, which are rare, and even then can result in several different results: water is not guaranteed.

Talisman Making
First thing about Talisman Making is that the trainer is called a Hedge Wizard. Got it?

Ok, second thing about Talisman Making is that the talismans you make are NOT permanent. They will decay over a period of game time depending on their final rarity. This is important: decay time is based on rarity, and measured in gametime, not realtime. White is 8 hours, Green is 2 days, Blue is 5 days, and Purple is permanent. Talismans start with a container, and then require a fragment, curio, gold essence, and magical essence. Gold essences can be made through Apothecary, fragments and magic essences come from Salvaging, and curios come from Scavenging.

Fragments are defined by two prefixes, one that determines both the stat and rarity, and one that determines the quality (rank), and a suffix that serves some unknown purpose. Essences have just one prefix (rank/quality) and a suffix (rarity). Curios have no real prefixes or suffixes, just different names for each rarity at each rank (i.e. an heirloom pocketwatch is the blue rarity skill 1 curio).

The result of a talisman made is determined by three things: the rarity level, the quality level, and the type of fragment used. Getting a "you made something better" result will increase the quality level (which in turn increases the quality modifier), while a "you have made something awesome" result gives you a higher rarity level (which in turn increases duration and base quality).

So you start with the base quality from your rarity (adjusting if it is bumped up by a rarity bonus result). Then you add the quality (adding the quality modifier from any quality bonus results.) Then you multiply by 10 if it is a resistance. The result is the stat increase you get, with a duration based on rarity (formula listed above).

Trainers

Trainers can be found for the first time in your Chapter 2 encampment, and in your Capitol city, as well as scattered elsewhere throughout the game. Trainers typically have two dialog options: "Trade in skill", which will allow you to pick a different trade skill by reducing your current skill to 0; and (for crafting trainers) "Let me see your wares" to buy materials. Please note, that some trainers will not sell you all of the materials you need for your trade skill -- notably Hedge Wizards (the Talisman trainer) do not carry "fragments".

Resources:

HammerWiki: Trade Skills: http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Trade_Skill
HammerWiki: Talisman Making modifiers and tables: http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Talisman_Making
HammerWiki: Apothecary drop tables and modifiers: http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Apothecary
Warhammer Alliance Crafting Forums:http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Apothecary

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    rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Gross.

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
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    A-PuckA-Puck Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    For you crafters, I pick up scavenging for the extra cash, if anyone wants my curios and ingredients I'll be more than happy to mail them to you if you are willing to pay me the vendor value for them (I'll send it cod).

    Let me know the character name and what sort of stuff (and level) and I'll send it to you. Assuming of course that you are destruction on Ulthuan.

    One apothacery, one cultivator, and one talisman maker. I am certainly also willing to buy pots and talismans for a modest mark up over the vendor prices for the ingredients, say 15% more than the cost of the sum of the ingredients.

    Does this sound fair to people or dickish.

    A-Puck on
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    Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Not all Green items can be salvaged, for some reason.

    Has anybody come up with a rhyme or reason as to what level your salvaging has to be compared to the level of the item and what color it is? More rare items seem to require a higher level salvaging.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
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    pantsypantsy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Not all Green items can be salvaged, for some reason.

    Has anybody come up with a rhyme or reason as to what level your salvaging has to be compared to the level of the item and what color it is? More rare items seem to require a higher level salvaging.

    From what I can tell on my rank 13 Chosen, I have been able to salvage everything that is rank 10ish required or less with like salvaging 19. Anything higher seems to need salvaging 25, so maybe its in increments of 10 ranks?

    Also, in regards to not being able to salvage every green, it seems that belts are unsalvageable at the moment for some reason. Ive been able to do everything else.



    I've also messed around with cultivating/apothecary on my squig herder. You can make some neat stuff, such as fire damage potions. I even made several "Fire Breath" potions that shoot fire in a cone for some aoe damage. You can imagine the surprise this gets when you use it in a packed area :D

    pantsy on
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    SWATJesterSWATJester Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    pantsy wrote: »
    Not all Green items can be salvaged, for some reason.

    Has anybody come up with a rhyme or reason as to what level your salvaging has to be compared to the level of the item and what color it is? More rare items seem to require a higher level salvaging.

    From what I can tell on my rank 13 Chosen, I have been able to salvage everything that is rank 10ish required or less with like salvaging 19. Anything higher seems to need salvaging 25, so maybe its in increments of 10 ranks?

    Also, in regards to not being able to salvage every green, it seems that belts are unsalvageable at the moment for some reason. Ive been able to do everything else.



    I've also messed around with cultivating/apothecary on my squig herder. You can make some neat stuff, such as fire damage potions. I even made several "Fire Breath" potions that shoot fire in a cone for some aoe damage. You can imagine the surprise this gets when you use it in a packed area :D

    The fire breath potions are indeed cool, but the damage is weaksauce (at least, at cultivating 30 and Apothecary 51), and the required seeds don't seem to pop enough.

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    pantsypantsy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Oh yeah they're totally lame, but excellent for the "WTF" effect when a crazed goblin starts shooting fire out of his mouth at you.

    I also managed to actually get a killing blow on a retreating Ironbreaker with the single target fire damage potion. Had to be embarassing for him.

    pantsy on
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    MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    Scavaging is actually really good for apothecary, as you get main ingrediants and water's to create potions.

    I can make a potion without add-on parts, I can't make a potion without water. :P

    Morkath on
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    NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Accessories in general cannot be melted with Magical Salvage right now. No idea why though.

    Nealneal on
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    CuddlyCuteKittenCuddlyCuteKitten Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    What's the max level of gathering skills? My scavenging seems to go up (sometimes more than one step!) for every corpse I lot. I'm at 90+ something right now at level 16.

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    Niceguy MyeyeNiceguy Myeye Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Why hello there!

    I was looking for more detailed information about crafting earlier!

    One thing I haven't quite been able to find is a list of the uncommon cultivation harvests you get from doing well by using higher level soil, water, and blood.

    For Instance, when I dumped the good components into the bitter elvish parsley, (so I would get the seed back after harvest) I would sometimes get an alchemy base (uncommon green name) for piss yellow dye and not the parsley.

    Is there a list of alternate harvests from cultivation anywhere? I'm curious as to if I'm missing something by not pumping components into seeds that make things I'd never use, such as ballistics potions.

    Niceguy Myeye on
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    GalagaGalaxianGalagaGalaxian Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Butchering works easily for Apothecary too, and Wolves are tailor-made for healing potions as they drop both a main ingredient for HoT potions (wolf's blood) and a stabilizer (zoic gore).

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    MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    What's the max level of gathering skills? My scavenging seems to go up (sometimes more than one step!) for every corpse I lot. I'm at 90+ something right now at level 16.

    Its at least 200.

    Probably 250.

    It slows alot after you hit 100.

    Morkath on
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    Niceguy MyeyeNiceguy Myeye Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Butchering works easily for Apothecary too, and Wolves are tailor-made for healing potions as they drop both a main ingredient for HoT potions (wolf's blood) and a stabilizer (zoic gore).

    Absolutely, I've heard the same sort of thing about scavenging and some sort of ticks on gnolls or something somewhere (probably here).

    As it stands, it looks like cultivating is the least efficient way to obtain potion materials, because it requires you to get random drops, and then buy supplementary materials from either the vendor or other players. Whereas with butchering or scavenging, you only have to kill x type of mob to get the ingredients you want.

    Niceguy Myeye on
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    MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    Butchering works easily for Apothecary too, and Wolves are tailor-made for healing potions as they drop both a main ingredient for HoT potions (wolf's blood) and a stabilizer (zoic gore).

    Absolutely, I've heard the same sort of thing about scavenging and some sort of ticks on gnolls or something somewhere (probably here).

    As it stands, it looks like cultivating is the least efficient way to obtain potion materials, because it requires you to get random drops, and then buy supplementary materials from either the vendor or other players. Whereas with butchering or scavenging, you only have to kill x type of mob to get the ingredients you want.

    The gor give ticks for AP potions, and humanoids give leeches for hp potions.

    And everything gives water as a stabilizer.

    Morkath on
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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    As I see it, the biggest problem with butchering is that you're usually not killing animal mobs. I ended up switching an alt from butchering to scavenging because I couldn't find any PQs that involve killing animals (and obviously, there's no shortage of PQs that involve 'scavengable' mobs).

    jkylefulton on
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    A-PuckA-Puck Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    As I see it, the biggest problem with butchering is that you're usually not killing animal mobs. I ended up switching an alt from butchering to scavenging because I couldn't find any PQs that involve killing animals (and obviously, there's no shortage of PQs that involve 'scavengable' mobs).

    There are a couple of EvC PQs that involve killing hounds and wolves for stage 1. I THINK that it is early T2 but I wouldn't bet my life on it. It's the same chapter that has the PQ that stage one is killing the wagons around the farm.

    A-Puck on
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    SaammielSaammiel Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    A-Puck wrote: »
    As I see it, the biggest problem with butchering is that you're usually not killing animal mobs. I ended up switching an alt from butchering to scavenging because I couldn't find any PQs that involve killing animals (and obviously, there's no shortage of PQs that involve 'scavengable' mobs).

    There are a couple of EvC PQs that involve killing hounds and wolves for stage 1. I THINK that it is early T2 but I wouldn't bet my life on it. It's the same chapter that has the PQ that stage one is killing the wagons around the farm.

    The Ch2 PQ in Empire where you fight at the burning windmill is like the Mecca for early game butchering/apothecary.

    And cultivation really isn't that bad, my only complaint is that you get almost no stabilizers, which is making it increasingly hard to make potions at the 100 level. God only knows what the next few tiers will be like.

    The nice thing about Cultivation is that you quickly outstrip your actual rank with tradeskills. By this I mean, that I have 142 Cultivation at rank 22. 100 Tier seeds generally make level 30 potions. So I can't actually use things that I can make. However, and this is important, it seems that as you level Cultivation it gets easier to save seeds. So all those 75 seeds I have saved up are lasting longer than things I would have whistled up with Butchering. Not sure how it will all eventually pan out though.

    Saammiel on
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    SWATJesterSWATJester Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Morkath wrote: »
    What's the max level of gathering skills? My scavenging seems to go up (sometimes more than one step!) for every corpse I lot. I'm at 90+ something right now at level 16.

    Its at least 200.

    Probably 250.

    It slows alot after you hit 100.

    I am pretty sure it's 200, based on Cultivation having 4 plots, and you getting a new one at 1, 51, 101, and 151. Correspondingly, I've found that butchering only goes up to 51 on T1 mobs, and won't start raising again until you hit T2. With 4 tiers, that would seem to imply that skill maxes at 200.

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    CuddlyCuteKittenCuddlyCuteKitten Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah I'm stuck on 100 right now on T2 so 200 is probably max.

    CuddlyCuteKitten on
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    GalagaGalaxianGalagaGalaxian Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I miss having bagspace. :(

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    GalagaGalaxian on
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    SWATJesterSWATJester Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Anyone know if things like Witch Agate, Ice Agate, and Motes of Change, do anything?

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    RialeRiale I'm a little slow Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    wardb is your friend

    I know you use one Mote of Change in elf T4 to unlock a title. As for the other items I'd search around.

    Riale on
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    LlyLly Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I got stuck in apothecary by not having the right mats to get me to level 50. (I levelled past the mobs that would drop them, and can't be bothered to go back yet)

    My bank is now at 90% full entirely of apothecary drops waiting for some fun day when i just sit in IC and brew potions. I will definitely need to be drinking to make that bearable.

    Honestly i think the crafting is by far the weakest aspect of WAR, it's just so limited, grindy, and dull. (hate to admit, but i miss making armour and weapons in WoW, and even more so do i miss the crafting in asheron's call 2)

    Lly on
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    SWATJesterSWATJester Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Riale wrote: »
    wardb is your friend

    I know you use one Mote of Change in elf T4 to unlock a title. As for the other items I'd search around.

    Wardb is so out of date as to be useless to me.

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    RialeRiale I'm a little slow Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    SWATJester wrote: »
    Riale wrote: »
    wardb is your friend

    I know you use one Mote of Change in elf T4 to unlock a title. As for the other items I'd search around.

    Wardb is so out of date as to be useless to me.

    Well, what else is there? Some of the stuff is no good, but for quest info and quite a few item/tome unlocks it's the only/best source.

    Riale on
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    ShoggothShoggoth Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The resources posted so far are nice, but I'm curious if any one has any good grinding spots they'd like to share. I'm mainly interested in cultivation stuff, but if you know of a good spot for something else might as well share it.

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    SWATJesterSWATJester Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Riale wrote: »
    SWATJester wrote: »
    Riale wrote: »
    wardb is your friend

    I know you use one Mote of Change in elf T4 to unlock a title. As for the other items I'd search around.

    Wardb is so out of date as to be useless to me.

    Well, what else is there? Some of the stuff is no good, but for quest info and quite a few item/tome unlocks it's the only/best source.

    Nothing else out there, but that doesn't make Wardb any easier to navigate, or more up-to-date. It's only slightly more up to date than HammerWiki.

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    Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I have to say that I really want to check out these changes that they made for the crafting system, hopefully it they will tweak cultivation and apothecary in the right direction. Especially for useless goldsweed. :3

    Lucky Cynic on
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    DizzenDizzen Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I've found that leveling apothecary past 100 is pretty rough, as after a point the skill 50 vials sold by the merchants start being kinda ineffective. Luckily Altdorf has that quick and easy steam tank PQ that's a reliable source for thick vials, but it is somewhat tedious getting them one at a time like that.

    Anyone know of a better way to get good vials?

    Dizzen on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited October 2008
    The Artisan's Gift buff from a BO appears to be bugged with Apothecary. I had Apothecary 43, +10 from the buff, and I still couldn't use any skill 50 vials or materials.

    Cultivating worked just fine with the buff.

    edit: err. never mind that. I only had 33 in apothecary. I just assumed that the buff wouldn't be accounted for in the tooltip, which showed 43. <_<

    Echo on
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    MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    Dizzen wrote: »
    I've found that leveling apothecary past 100 is pretty rough, as after a point the skill 50 vials sold by the merchants start being kinda ineffective. Luckily Altdorf has that quick and easy steam tank PQ that's a reliable source for thick vials, but it is somewhat tedious getting them one at a time like that.

    Anyone know of a better way to get good vials?

    Do vials really matter that much?

    As long as I am using appropriate water I haven't been having a problem raising my apoth. Got it up to 124 before I ran out of waters.

    Morkath on
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    DizzenDizzen Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Morkath wrote: »
    Dizzen wrote: »
    I've found that leveling apothecary past 100 is pretty rough, as after a point the skill 50 vials sold by the merchants start being kinda ineffective. Luckily Altdorf has that quick and easy steam tank PQ that's a reliable source for thick vials, but it is somewhat tedious getting them one at a time like that.

    Anyone know of a better way to get good vials?

    Do vials really matter that much?

    As long as I am using appropriate water I haven't been having a problem raising my apoth. Got it up to 124 before I ran out of waters.
    Eh, if you've got good enough water/resin, then that seems to works too. It's just that good vials can enhance stability and potentially free up ingredient slots, and good water doesn't seem to come easy for non-scavengers, so I was hoping.

    Sadly, it seems that the skill 50 vials are as good as one can hope to buy until one's guild hits rank 21/28 (assuming they fix the bug with vials purchased from the guild tavern's quartermaster).

    Dizzen on
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