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Screwed By My Landlord
Antishow
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
The cast:
Our hero - Anti
The damsel - P
Evil Dickface Landlord - J
My girlfriend and I moved into a condo back in August with a (now former) friend who knew the property owner. Because the property owner didn't really know us, and didn't really want to deal with the place, she made J the "Property Manager", effectively our landlord. We signed a lease agreement that he wrote up, and paid our rent to him, which he would then pass on to the owner.
Needless to say, it didn't work out. We lasted about two months before we decided to just get a place of our own. We provided a written thirty day notice to quit, and twenty-five days later moved out. The lease, notice, and letter of reconciliation we later received all clearly stated that we would be getting our security deposit back. J tells us that he legally has 30 days to get us our deposit, but that since we're friends we can expect it early, like probably in a week or so.
But every time he scheduled a time for us to get together to pick up the money, he would come up with some kind of excuse and not deliver. Since he legally has the thirty days our hands were pretty much tied, but of course we did contact him pretty often trying to get our money back.
Now, P isn't exactly subtle when it comes to asking for the money back. J keeps telling us "This friday" every week, but always fails to deliver. Tempers flare and some angry "Give us our fucking money you god damned prick"-style e-mails are exchanged. Nothing actually *that* bad, but you get the idea.
Then last Monday I get a call from J, upset that P is e-mailing him trying to get the money. I tell him that I'm sorry, and I'll ask her to stop; he accepts that and tells me he'll have the money for me "on Friday, bro, totally". I call him on Friday, and surprise surprise, no response. So then P gets angry and sends him another e-mail, asking when we can expect to see our deposit. J then immediately calls me, angry because P sent him another e-mail. He's so pissed in fact, that he'll be holding our deposit until Sunday, the last day of his thirty day grace period.
So on Sunday (yesterday) I call, and he's "Not feeling well" so we can't come over to get it. I'm pretty angry, but I'm at a friend's birthday party and don't really feel like dealing with the drama, so I say it's fine; I'll stop by after work and grab it.
Today I get there, and instead of my deposit I'm given a bill for some court fees. Earlier in the day he decided to go and file a restraining order against P.
Now first of all, I can't imagine that he can just preemptively charge us for a case that hasn't even gone to trial yet. Second, even if he *could*, it's certainly not an expense that would have anything to do with our security deposit. Third, I don't think he ever actually put that deposit into Escrow like he's legally required to do, and even if he did he never gave us a receipt saying where it was deposited. Fourth, even if he did pay the money today, it would have been late.
Now, I could have dealt with getting the deposit one day late, but now he is trying to take us to court just to try and weasel out of returning the deposit. So at this point the gloves are off as far as I'm concerned, now I want to take everything this asshole has. I've already made a few phone calls to lawyers, and feel like we have a solid case, but here I am awake this late, so I guess I'm still a little nervous.
I have to concede that P did contact him after he asked her to stop, that's basically my only concern. I'm rationalizing it to myself by thinking that this is not a personal matter, it's not like we let him borrow some money, it was a fucking security deposit. Does that make a difference? I can see his argument that we're "harassing" him for our money, but really once this is over neither of us plan on ever talking to or being around this asshole ever again so this whole "I'm a victim of harassment waaaaaaah" posturing he's trying to pull now is just stupid, childish, and imho an abuse of the legal system.
Finally, he sells pot. I'm really torn as to whether or not I want to even bring this up in court. My rage side says to do it, but my rational side tell me that it would just be regarded as hearsay, and wouldn't really help me much at all, (plus I bought from him, so I just don't know if I want to go there).
I'm sure this was poorly written, and for that I apologize, I'm just really smoldering with rage right now. Can anyone reassure me that we have nothing to worry about?
Our hero - Anti
The damsel - P
Evil Dickface Landlord - J
My girlfriend and I moved into a condo back in August with a (now former) friend who knew the property owner. Because the property owner didn't really know us, and didn't really want to deal with the place, she made J the "Property Manager", effectively our landlord. We signed a lease agreement that he wrote up, and paid our rent to him, which he would then pass on to the owner.
Needless to say, it didn't work out. We lasted about two months before we decided to just get a place of our own. We provided a written thirty day notice to quit, and twenty-five days later moved out. The lease, notice, and letter of reconciliation we later received all clearly stated that we would be getting our security deposit back. J tells us that he legally has 30 days to get us our deposit, but that since we're friends we can expect it early, like probably in a week or so.
But every time he scheduled a time for us to get together to pick up the money, he would come up with some kind of excuse and not deliver. Since he legally has the thirty days our hands were pretty much tied, but of course we did contact him pretty often trying to get our money back.
Now, P isn't exactly subtle when it comes to asking for the money back. J keeps telling us "This friday" every week, but always fails to deliver. Tempers flare and some angry "Give us our fucking money you god damned prick"-style e-mails are exchanged. Nothing actually *that* bad, but you get the idea.
Then last Monday I get a call from J, upset that P is e-mailing him trying to get the money. I tell him that I'm sorry, and I'll ask her to stop; he accepts that and tells me he'll have the money for me "on Friday, bro, totally". I call him on Friday, and surprise surprise, no response. So then P gets angry and sends him another e-mail, asking when we can expect to see our deposit. J then immediately calls me, angry because P sent him another e-mail. He's so pissed in fact, that he'll be holding our deposit until Sunday, the last day of his thirty day grace period.
So on Sunday (yesterday) I call, and he's "Not feeling well" so we can't come over to get it. I'm pretty angry, but I'm at a friend's birthday party and don't really feel like dealing with the drama, so I say it's fine; I'll stop by after work and grab it.
Today I get there, and instead of my deposit I'm given a bill for some court fees. Earlier in the day he decided to go and file a restraining order against P.
Now first of all, I can't imagine that he can just preemptively charge us for a case that hasn't even gone to trial yet. Second, even if he *could*, it's certainly not an expense that would have anything to do with our security deposit. Third, I don't think he ever actually put that deposit into Escrow like he's legally required to do, and even if he did he never gave us a receipt saying where it was deposited. Fourth, even if he did pay the money today, it would have been late.
Now, I could have dealt with getting the deposit one day late, but now he is trying to take us to court just to try and weasel out of returning the deposit. So at this point the gloves are off as far as I'm concerned, now I want to take everything this asshole has. I've already made a few phone calls to lawyers, and feel like we have a solid case, but here I am awake this late, so I guess I'm still a little nervous.
I have to concede that P did contact him after he asked her to stop, that's basically my only concern. I'm rationalizing it to myself by thinking that this is not a personal matter, it's not like we let him borrow some money, it was a fucking security deposit. Does that make a difference? I can see his argument that we're "harassing" him for our money, but really once this is over neither of us plan on ever talking to or being around this asshole ever again so this whole "I'm a victim of harassment waaaaaaah" posturing he's trying to pull now is just stupid, childish, and imho an abuse of the legal system.
Finally, he sells pot. I'm really torn as to whether or not I want to even bring this up in court. My rage side says to do it, but my rational side tell me that it would just be regarded as hearsay, and wouldn't really help me much at all, (plus I bought from him, so I just don't know if I want to go there).
I'm sure this was poorly written, and for that I apologize, I'm just really smoldering with rage right now. Can anyone reassure me that we have nothing to worry about?
Antishow on
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You're going to need to record the time of every single phone related to the subject, with notes about what happened each time. The more detail the better. Do not lie, or fill in any blanks you don't remember exactly. Print all of your e-mail regarding the subject. Even the ones that look bad, he may imply they were worse than they are or that they contained threats. Having done your homework looks good if it goes there.
Mostly though, you guys were harassing the hell out of him all along and got abusive before his time with the money was up. That's not fair ball. Even if he flaked out ever week, he still didn't HAVE to give you any money until the 30 days ended. Then you could have involved the court system on your behalf instead.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
don't pay his court fees... if he wants a restraining order, he'll have to pay for it
also, don't bring up his drug dealing in court... do report it to the police if you're feeling particularly vengeful
It's a race to the courthouse, so move your ass. Talk to a lawyer, see if the above is true in your jurisdiction. Tthere's nothing like spending 2K of someone else's money to sue them for $500 bucks. God bless America.
I already know that the sec dep is going to be ours, probably along with punitive damages, because he took the money for himself instead of putting it into Escrow. I guess it's just the restraining order that I'm worried about, and even then my concerns are based on my total lack of knowledge on how the legal system works, not the actual facts of the case.
It turns out that the e-mails she was sending have really only been since about ten days ago, and none of them were really all that angry at all. She was angry of course, but didn't let John see that. There were 5 messages sent total, one of which was an apology for being catty, three just asking when we can go pick it up, and another which states in no uncertain terms that we just want to resolve the issue and move on. Nothing that could be perceived as threatening in any way. Not only that, but he was responding to these e-mails, perfectly normal, nothing like "Stop talking to me" or anything. One of his responses was, and I am quoting here, "U got it!
That being said, can he *really* file a restraining order against her? For a handful of e-mails? I spoke to a legal assistance line today and they said it was a police matter, so I guess I'm just not really sure what the difference between a police dispute and a civil dispute is? Is it just that the security deposit is a separate issue from the restraining order?
Do I even bring a lawyer to small claims court? Witnesses? Or is it basically Judge Wapner style?
Pheezer is just flat wrong. Getting a restraining order in this country is very difficult, and given that he owed you money, and kept telling you he'd get it to you, you weren't harassing him by any real definition.
That being said, you need to circumvent your friend entirely, and contact the actual owner, and tell him what's going on. Legally speaking, he's the one responsible for your deposits, and he's the one you're going to have to haul into small claims court. Explain to him that you really don't want to drag anyone to court, but that obviously you need your deposit back. If you can get him on your side, it'll make things go much easier.
Do NOT bring up the drug dealing. It's irrelevant and could only hurt you. It can be reported anonymously to the police if you really want to, but that's pretty weak, IMO. It's just weed.
I was wondering to myself, how could it be that we had an agreement on Sunday and a court filing on Monday? What happened?
On Sunday night P posted a comment on the MySpace profile of a girl that is on both P and J's friends list. This is from the report that J filed.
Seriously, though, get on talking to the actual landlord, instead of dealing with this douchebag. In fact, you should stop contacting the douchebag altogether. Do you and your girlfriend use cell phones, or are you on a landline? And how much of your communication has been over the phone?
We haven't had much phone contact with him. Most of the conversations have gone like:
* J calling me to say when I could come grab the money,
* Me calling J at that appointed time (just a courtesy, "Hey I'm on my way") and not getting an answer,
* P sending J an e-mail asking when we can actually expect the money
I've gotten a few calls from him angrily demanding that I "find my balls" and force P to stop e-mailing him. Which I have tried to do, but she's determined to not let him get away with this.
We have already decided to not talk to him at all at this point. Until I talk to some kind of lawyer I don't think I really want to get ahold of the property owner; if a fucking MySpace comment on someone else's profile warrants a restraining order, I can only imagine what we'll be dealing with if I try going over his head. It's kind of weird, now that I think of it we didn't sign any sort of agreement with the actual property owner, just J, so I'm not sure what we can really do there.
And the agreement doesn't mention the property owner at all? That's... really weird.
Consult with a lawyer, absolutely, but it seems unlikely that you will need one. And lets be clear here, if what you've said is really what happened, then you don't have much to worry about. Judges have an uncanny ability to sniff out the truth, that why they are where they are. If youve been spinning to us here a bit, then well, thats going to come out.
The print out of the emails sounds like a great idea, and also the blurb on whoevers page- uttering threats anywhere, even on myspace, still counts. I hope it wasn't a physical threat, because that could actually be taken seriously. You may get a wrist smack for it, but given the circumstances, it probably wont be much more than that.
i don't know how it works in terms of counterclaim- you may not be able to bring up the money owed bit at the same time, because its part of a different matter. That may require an alt ruling, a different time in court, I just don't know. Maybe Cojo will stop by and enlighten us.
No, we don't even want to talk to him. The problem is that we can't afford to pay the court fees for the restraining order, especially since we didn't get the deposit owed to us.
It wasn't a threat. It was something to the effect of "Princess J didn't give us our deposit back today because he wasn't feeling good". This guy is crazy.
Something is weird about you having to pay to defend yourself when in the clear, there has to be some kind of provision in the law about that, because otherwise, you could just sue whomever about nothing, and then go to town when they couldn't make court. Unless... thats the plan?
Ur lawz cunfooses me.
Also, I didn't think small claims had fees. Because the claims are small. Public service and all that.
Also, is there no public defender for this kind of thing?
I dunno, somehow this seems like a bullshit scare tactic, and there is always a way through bullshit tactics. Even court fees I think can be delayed or paid off over time.
What sum are we talking about here? And can you afford to let it go? I mean, I would pay quite a bit just to put a bully in the ground, and if I had to fork over a few hundred to do it, I still would. Just in terms of a countersuit, or small claim suit, you should be able to recover all legal costs, and your deposit, yes no?
You only have a right to an attorney for criminal cases. Public defenders are busy saving drunk drivers and misdemeanors so they don't do civil stuff. There should be legal aid clinics available in most metropolitan communities that can give basic legal advice like this stuff.
I would agree that the pot claim wont get you anywhere. Charging you for the restraining order doesn't make any sense to me either. BTW I'm only a law student so my best advice is to go see free legal aid.
I've seen judges work as well, they usually have heard so much bullshit in their time they are amazingly good at sniffing it out. I watched a federal judge blow through an entire jury selection crowd in an hour, he hard lined every poor bastard in there including myself. I told him I would fail out of my college engineering program if I had to commit (which I would have), and he still managed to make it seem like I was blowing smoke up his ass.
I didn't say it was harassment or that the restraining order was totally justified, I was just pointing out that the behaviour was in fact unacceptable and that there are limits on how much he can play the victim here.
And the stuff I had about a detailed and accurate log of all contacts, and printed copies of all electronic contacts, regardless of content? That's important as all fuck. It'll carry a whole lot of weight if either of you are accused of making threats that you did not. And even "threats" that you did make still have to be plausible and the person making them has to be capable of carrying them out and so forth. Arguing that it was clearly not a serious threat, that it was made in the heat of the moment, and that the person who made it has no history of violence or threatening behaviour and could never actually do what she threatened will likely get you out of that one. Assuming that's all true.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Unless there's more to your story, I doubt his restraining order will stand up in court. From what you've said, a harassment claim seems so unsubstantiated that you can probably counter claim for incidental expenses you've incurred in responding to it and have a good chance at getting them (if NH allows that) as judges generally don't like having their time wasted with frivolous suits.
Since we're the defendants here, all we're really obligated to do is show that there were no threats and this whole thing should be dismissed, right? There's no "burden of proof" on us?
J broke a number of laws regarding how he handled our deposit, how he didn't return it on time, and how he's now trying to charge us for things without a receipt. Should we be filing a countersuit? Or do we do that after his restraining order is dismissed? We looked into the actual laws and there are some pretty severe penalties for the shit he has pulled, we stand to maybe get a few thousand dollars out of him.
Those penalties in the law have nothing to do with how much you could get in a suit. Unless you can show damages beyond not getting your security deposit back, just countersue for that.
It also may be the case that the real party at fault with regard to the housing laws is the property owner, not your friend.
Don't accept any of the things he is saying or doing. Trust me, as soon as he started complaining about 'harassment' it was immediately obvious he was dodgy.
Trying to get an obvious flake to pay you what he owes you is not harassment in any way.
I'm not entirely sure how to represent myself when I go to court next week, mostly because I've never been in this kind of situation before.
The point of it being that he's claiming to feel threatened by me (let's not even mention the fact that I'm a girl and he's a grown 28 year old man)...
Conveniently, this came right after he was supposed to give us our security deposit back and failed to do so within 30 days.
I will admit, I left him a pretty mean voicemail the day after he left us with a bill claiming to owe him money... but it was nothing threatening. Just me calling him a POS and such.
Anyone have a clue as to what I should say here?
If you are both in the right then you really have nothing to worry about... and if he has saved the voicemail I would explain to the judge the level of frustration that has been carried around as your old... landlord?... whatever he is has placed on you. It wasn't the best move to call someone a POS when they can save the voice and number associated (envelope information if your service has it) and present that in court. The worst thing you could do in court is get defensive about this call if it's brought up.
But mimic'ing several others here, just play cool. I had to put a peace bond on an old tenant myself and it ended up going well as I was prepare for court with the relivent information and detailed times of when he had called, what number he had called from and what conversations I had with local law enforcement.
Now, is he suing you, or is this just going to be a hearing for the restraining order? If he's not suing you, you're not filing a countersuit, you need to go down and just file an actual lawsuit in small claims court. Get a couple of friends to serve him (or pay the cops to do it), so that you don't actually need to interact with him anymore.
You want to show up to court well-dressed. Do not talk to the guy at all. Do not address him in any way, shape, or form. You're talking to the judge, and only the judge. Do not get angry. If he interrupts you, just let him, don't try to talk over him. Do not interrupt him (you'll have your chance to speak). Tell the truth, even if it doesn't make you look good. Make sure you bring copies of the e-mails with you. If you have detailed phone bills (i.e. bills that show when you and your boyfriend called him), bring copies of those with you, too.
I mean, really, the guy is trying to get a restraining order without having even called the cops. That's not going to fly, and any judge worth his salt is going to give him a pretty severe tongue-lashing.
Take the good advice. Judges love people who aren't there to try and spin the story to make themselves the hero and the other person the evil villainous bad person. The truth will make this guy look like the prick that he truly is. From the story so far, I can say that it sounds like he's trying to intimidate you two into abandoning the security deposit. You might want to find a good, trustable lawyer and get a free consultation with them on if this guy's breaking any laws by trying to screw you out of the security deposit.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Pretend you're doing a debate in english class and your ass is getting marked.
Other than that, I guess all the really good advice has been stated and re-stated already. You'll be okay.
Really, I've just never been in this situation before, so it's scary. The last thing I want is for this guy to lie, and then win. We've been out of the complex for about two months now, I've only contacted him to ask about the security deposit, and then to leave the angry voicemail after he stuck us with a bill after being told for the 3rd or 4th time that we were going to have our funds back.
It'll be hard for me to keep my cool because the guy is such a scumbag, but I'll work on it. That's probably going to be the biggest obstacle. I hate injustice.
But I've also played too much Phoenix Wright XD
Also, you guys are in Dover? A buddy of mine just moved up there and I'm going to see him this weekend. I hope he didn't move into the same apartment building. :P
Well, the thing is, he doesn't actually OWN the property. The property owner made some arrangement (though I'm not even entirely sure if this is true, as it's only what this guy has said) where he was appointed Landlord of the condo. We were all paying money to her to rent the place out.
So we were living with our Landlord, basically.
That's where this gets really weird.
I'm going to try my very best to stay calm. I mean, I've gone over the fact in my head numerous times and I'm pretty confident and have had plenty of reassurance. It's just... time consuming and frustrating.
This boils down to him 1) not wanting to pay a lousy 200 dollars and 2.) wanting us to pay him more money after the fact.
Argh. It's crazy.
When is the court date? I'm sure everyone here is as curious as I am to see how this turns out.
I just can't even tell you how much time this is taking out of my day. Between having my boyfriend print out all of the e-mails, phone bill usage details, and trying to write out my side of the story, I feel like I can't breathe.
This isn't even including how much time I work myself into a frenzy over this.
I've never had anyone put a restraining order on me - let alone for calling him a "princess" on myspace and to try and dodge the fact that he owed us money.
I just wish I had someone who could hand him his ass like he deserves. I feel so helpless. -_-
I think my brain exploded inside of my head last night a little.
I need a vacation ><
J wrote this five page statement to get the temp. order until the hearing. In those five pages there are a number of easily debunked lies, and not a single example of any threat, direct or otherwise, coming from Lady Riddel. We have this in the bag. I was nervous a few days ago, but I've been doing my Chords of Steel workout and now I'm feeling prepared and ready to see this asshole get his comeuppance.