Hhrm so if they go classless, will this make it harder to find healers/tanks, or are you guys talking about taking fights to the next level where you actually have to think about an encounter rather than just outdps/outheal/outdespell the mobs?
Well, I'm not sure if I agree completely. I've enjoyed healing in the past, it just sucks when people die and they automatically assume it as your fault even if they were being dumb fucks. But, I can agree with Bioware trying to mix it up and not go for the same old same old and just slap Star Wars on to it.
Anyways, if the Commandos can give group buffs, I'm wondering if it's a safe bet to say that Jedi will have the same sort of "inspiration" ability. Or an Aura, even.
Faynor on
do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
0
ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
The archetypes the that WoW produced were boring as hell and I'm glad I didn't play it for long. I mean the game was fun and all, but when you just focus on the numbers of the thing and just focus on stuff like that, it got way boring. It would be nice if this game had a better system that pulls you into the game more.
Light Sith is kind of an interesting concept in itself. They could play it as a super ambitious Jedi who wants to cure the Dark Side whole thing from the inside.
Wouldn't Dark Jedi and "Light" Sith pretty much be the same? A force-user who embraces the Dark Side but believes in the Jedi code?
Light Sith is kind of an interesting concept in itself. They could play it as a super ambitious Jedi who wants to cure the Dark Side whole thing from the inside.
Wouldn't Dark Jedi and "Light" Sith pretty much be the same? A force-user who embraces the Dark Side but believes in the Jedi code?
Sith code and Jedi code are pretty different, man
At least, according to KotOR, which Bioware probably considers canon (since it's their game!)
A "Light" Sith would have a pretty different outlook than "Dark" Jedi.
Light Sith is kind of an interesting concept in itself. They could play it as a super ambitious Jedi who wants to cure the Dark Side whole thing from the inside.
Wouldn't Dark Jedi and "Light" Sith pretty much be the same? A force-user who embraces the Dark Side but believes in the Jedi code?
guess we would call them 'grey jedi' or Sidi or Jith?
Hhrm so if they go classless, will this make it harder to find healers/tanks, or are you guys talking about taking fights to the next level where you actually have to think about an encounter rather than just outdps/outheal/outdespell the mobs?
I'm not talking about going classless. I'm still in favor of classes, just fewer and more generalized ones that can specialize in different things within their scope, like instead of having three different Jedi classes and then having to make three Sith analogues, you just make one Jedi and one Dark Jedi class, and each one can branch out into their own variation (or combinations thereof) via things like skill points/perks/talents/what have you. Nothing hyperspecialized like pre-NGE SWG or in EQ2 where you have a multitude of classes that perform the same roles in mostly the same ways, but only with a slight twist or variation.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I imagine a Light Side Sith as a sort of "Chaotic Good" character from D&D. They believe in helping people, but maybe by creating situations where the people have to help themselves. They draw their strength from emotions, but use that strength to do well. And after all, looking through the "Sith Code" as written in KOTOR 1:
Peace is a lie. There is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
There's nothing overtly evil about any of that. I would imagine it's just more difficult to channel the Light Side when you're drawing it from emotions rather than inner focus.
For another analogy, I see the Jedi as Wizards and the Sith as Sorcerors from 3.X D&D. Wizards gain their power through extensive study, focus, etc. while the Sorceror uses inborn talent to channel magic with his or her own body as a conduit. The Light/Dark Side dichotomy comes from whether you're fundamentally good or evil.
Actually, I hope they make neutral characters viable, rather than giving you bonuses for ignoring Kreia like they did in KOTOR 2.
But Mace Windu mastered that really powerful lightsaber technique that involved him enjoying the thrill of combat or some ridiculousness like that, didn't he? And it was Vader's love for Luke that turned him away from the Dark Side.
Also, keep in mind that's being told to Luke by Yoda, a jedi. That's not an unbiased opinion.
Yoda basically says that emotions ultimately lead to evil, though
True, but so much of the two Kotor games is designed to make you question that dogma.
Also both movie trilogies. If Anakin could've been honest and open about his feelings, he would've never needed to become Palpatine's sidekick, and I get the impression Vader was pretty emotionless until he gave into love for his son and turned light again.
thinking more on the whole Dark Jedi/Light Sith thing, I can't make much sense of it.
being a Sith is a pretty big distinction from being a Jedi, and being a Light Sith doesn't seem possible, since the Sith code isn't the only thing the Sith go by, they actively train their apprentices to feed off of their emotions, especially fear and anger. The Dark Side might not inherantly be evil, but those that choose to use it (the Sith) most certainly are
anyway, my money is on Jedi/Dark Jedi, with the Rule of Two and all that
Zombiemambo on
0
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2009
You also have to consider that Yoda knew he had to give Luke the quick and dirty explanations, due to the fact that he didn't have Luke's whole life to train him up, and also that both Obi Wan and Yoda were manipulating Luke toward a desired outcome.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
guys the problem with trying to reconcile parts of the movie dialog with the expanded universe is that the movie dialog was written for 10 year olds and isn't even internally consistent.
why attempt to push the bubbles out of wallpaper?
when you consider the whole star wars universe to be a sort of semi-amorphous entity where the authors can take liberty with all of these gray areas, it makes it so much more enjoyable.
Yoda basically says that emotions ultimately lead to evil, though
Let's be honest, Yoda was a ponce.
Finally someone else gets it.
Yoda presided over both the destruction of the Republic and the Jedi Order because he never took the time to say "Hey Anakin, you look sad, want to talk? Something's wrong, isn't it?" or ask the question "Gee, isn't leading an army of Cloned slave soldiers a little bit hypocritical of a life-respecting Jedi to do?"
I don't know if this was Lucas' intent, but the Emperor was the only person to talk *with* Anakin (albeit to manipulate him) while everyone else just talked *at* him.
It annoys me to no end how Sid goes from scheming supervillain with a ton of finesse and control and turns into Douche McCockfaggot, bumbling fool with the foresight of a blind emu, at the first sign of trouble. I realize his evilness wasn't obvious enough for the general audience, but up until that point, I was rooting for him. Then he turns into a demented albino hobbit with a skin condition and anger management issues.
Or he stopped pretending to be anything but the loveably maniacal freak that he actually was?
And, sure, the Jedi killed led an army of clones but it was just to kill droids. Droids aren't alive are they?
But what about the slavery of the clones you ask? Who cares, they were clones. They're not real life. They're like the diet pepsi of life. Sure they claim to taste just like real life, but they're lieing and you know it.
I imagine a Light Side Sith as a sort of "Chaotic Good" character from D&D. They believe in helping people, but maybe by creating situations where the people have to help themselves. They draw their strength from emotions, but use that strength to do well. And after all, looking through the "Sith Code" as written in KOTOR 1:
Peace is a lie. There is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
There's nothing overtly evil about any of that. I would imagine it's just more difficult to channel the Light Side when you're drawing it from emotions rather than inner focus.
For another analogy, I see the Jedi as Wizards and the Sith as Sorcerors from 3.X D&D. Wizards gain their power through extensive study, focus, etc. while the Sorceror uses inborn talent to channel magic with his or her own body as a conduit. The Light/Dark Side dichotomy comes from whether you're fundamentally good or evil.
Actually, I hope they make neutral characters viable, rather than giving you bonuses for ignoring Kreia like they did in KOTOR 2.
You'rs is the best analogy I've seen yet.
Jedi = LG
Dark Jedi = LE
Jedi draw their power from meditative disciplines, requiring a calm, orderly mind but a calm orderly mind can also be psychopathis and callous; like Evil monks in D&D
Sith = CE
Light Sith = CG
Sith draw their power from strong emotions and, as with anger, hate, and fear being strong emotions, can easily corrupt a person into being power-hungry and cruel. Love, however, is also a strong emotion and a true feeling of love (caring more about others than yourself) will not corrupt.
Anakin fell because of fear and anger, afraid and angry at loosing his wife or the Jedi finding out, which were stronger than benevolent feelings. Other jedi, who, say, loved someone have simply left the order.
widowson on
-I owe nothing to Women's Lib.
Margaret Thatcher
0
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Dark Jedi are not dark side users who continue to follow the teachings of the Jedi.
Means you aren't really a Jedi or a Sith anymore. You've pretty much abandoned the teachings of your tradition.
That's fine, really. I mean, that kind of shit's all over the Star Wars fiction.
However, just because you "fall" from one tradition doesn't necessarily make you another. Every Jedi who falls to the Dark Side doesn't automatically become a Sith, even before the Rule of Two made it so there was only two Sith.
If you're a Jedi who has fallen to the Dark Side, you're a fallen Jedi who has abandoned his teachings. You're not a Sith.
If you travel to Korriban and you train as a Sith, or get you a Sith holocron to learn from, or be knighted by some Sith Lord, then you're a Jedi who became a Sith.
Otherwise, you're just another fallen Jedi.
If you're a Sith who follows the Light Side of the Force, who abandons the path of anger, selfishness, destruction and impulsive usage of the Force, you're not really a Sith anymore. You've fallen from the Sith path, and went into a different direction with your usage of the Force. This does not make you a Jedi. Travel to the Jedi Academy (if they'll take you), be taken in as an unofficial Padawan by a Jedi Master, etc. then you're (arguably) a Jedi.
If you were a Jedi in the first place, fell to the Dark Side and even joined the Sith, then redeemed yourself, you could say you are a redeemed Jedi, and a former Sith.
If you were a Sith in the first place, embraced the Light, somehow got yourself into the Jedi, then fell back to the Dark Side, you could say you are a "redeemed" Sith, and a former Jedi.
Hope this helps, it sure hurt my soul to write something this nerdy!
I'm gonna be a Jedi who needs extra cash to pay the rent, so takes a second night job as a Sith.
I'm going to be a Sith who develops moral qualms as he is forced to face his son in battle. Or a Jedi who doesn't have anyone who understands him, and his feelings, and so turns to the dark side. Hmmm, waitaminute.
I'm gonna be a Jedi who needs extra cash to pay the rent, so takes a second night job as a Sith.
I'm going to be a Sith who develops moral qualms as he is forced to face his son in battle. Or a Jedi who doesn't have anyone who understands him, and his feelings, and so turns to the dark side. Hmmm, waitaminute.
Are you kidding me? No one would ever want to play as that?
Anyway, looking over everything so far on this MMO and I can barely wait. I played the hell out of SWG, I love the SW universe...Yes, I have read nearly every EU book. I'll be the insane Mando'ade blowing the 'ell outta your emo lovy dovy jetii and dar'jetii
He was a Light former-Jedi. I know the game had his needle at exactly mid-range, but his actions and attitude still put him into the Light category, and there was nothing Sith-like about him.
There was nothing remotely Sithish about Jolee. He was a good dude that thought the Jedi Council was stupid.
So, is the Sith Empire in this supposed to be the real Sith Empire that Revan discovered in the Unknown Regions, or the incompetent poseurs that periodically hang out on Korriban?
Posts
Buff-guy? Cool. But just being the guy responsible for spamming the HP increasing spell is BORING.
Anyways, if the Commandos can give group buffs, I'm wondering if it's a safe bet to say that Jedi will have the same sort of "inspiration" ability. Or an Aura, even.
Wouldn't Dark Jedi and "Light" Sith pretty much be the same? A force-user who embraces the Dark Side but believes in the Jedi code?
Sith code and Jedi code are pretty different, man
At least, according to KotOR, which Bioware probably considers canon (since it's their game!)
A "Light" Sith would have a pretty different outlook than "Dark" Jedi.
guess we would call them 'grey jedi' or Sidi or Jith?
I'm not talking about going classless. I'm still in favor of classes, just fewer and more generalized ones that can specialize in different things within their scope, like instead of having three different Jedi classes and then having to make three Sith analogues, you just make one Jedi and one Dark Jedi class, and each one can branch out into their own variation (or combinations thereof) via things like skill points/perks/talents/what have you. Nothing hyperspecialized like pre-NGE SWG or in EQ2 where you have a multitude of classes that perform the same roles in mostly the same ways, but only with a slight twist or variation.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Peace is a lie. There is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
There's nothing overtly evil about any of that. I would imagine it's just more difficult to channel the Light Side when you're drawing it from emotions rather than inner focus.
For another analogy, I see the Jedi as Wizards and the Sith as Sorcerors from 3.X D&D. Wizards gain their power through extensive study, focus, etc. while the Sorceror uses inborn talent to channel magic with his or her own body as a conduit. The Light/Dark Side dichotomy comes from whether you're fundamentally good or evil.
Actually, I hope they make neutral characters viable, rather than giving you bonuses for ignoring Kreia like they did in KOTOR 2.
According to the site (or the IGN interviews, I can't remember), being neutral is actually the most beneficial, but also the most difficult.
True, but so much of the two Kotor games is designed to make you question that dogma.
Also, keep in mind that's being told to Luke by Yoda, a jedi. That's not an unbiased opinion.
Also both movie trilogies. If Anakin could've been honest and open about his feelings, he would've never needed to become Palpatine's sidekick, and I get the impression Vader was pretty emotionless until he gave into love for his son and turned light again.
being a Sith is a pretty big distinction from being a Jedi, and being a Light Sith doesn't seem possible, since the Sith code isn't the only thing the Sith go by, they actively train their apprentices to feed off of their emotions, especially fear and anger. The Dark Side might not inherantly be evil, but those that choose to use it (the Sith) most certainly are
but I admit I don't know enough about Star Wars mythology to make any sort of informative statement on the matter
anyway, my money is on Jedi/Dark Jedi, with the Rule of Two and all that
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
why attempt to push the bubbles out of wallpaper?
when you consider the whole star wars universe to be a sort of semi-amorphous entity where the authors can take liberty with all of these gray areas, it makes it so much more enjoyable.
Finally someone else gets it.
Yoda presided over both the destruction of the Republic and the Jedi Order because he never took the time to say "Hey Anakin, you look sad, want to talk? Something's wrong, isn't it?" or ask the question "Gee, isn't leading an army of Cloned slave soldiers a little bit hypocritical of a life-respecting Jedi to do?"
I don't know if this was Lucas' intent, but the Emperor was the only person to talk *with* Anakin (albeit to manipulate him) while everyone else just talked *at* him.
Margaret Thatcher
And, sure, the Jedi killed led an army of clones but it was just to kill droids. Droids aren't alive are they?
But what about the slavery of the clones you ask? Who cares, they were clones. They're not real life. They're like the diet pepsi of life. Sure they claim to taste just like real life, but they're lieing and you know it.
You'rs is the best analogy I've seen yet.
Jedi = LG
Dark Jedi = LE
Jedi draw their power from meditative disciplines, requiring a calm, orderly mind but a calm orderly mind can also be psychopathis and callous; like Evil monks in D&D
Sith = CE
Light Sith = CG
Sith draw their power from strong emotions and, as with anger, hate, and fear being strong emotions, can easily corrupt a person into being power-hungry and cruel. Love, however, is also a strong emotion and a true feeling of love (caring more about others than yourself) will not corrupt.
Anakin fell because of fear and anger, afraid and angry at loosing his wife or the Jedi finding out, which were stronger than benevolent feelings. Other jedi, who, say, loved someone have simply left the order.
Margaret Thatcher
There is no such thing as a 'light sith'
Or following the Light Side as a Sith.
Means you aren't really a Jedi or a Sith anymore. You've pretty much abandoned the teachings of your tradition.
That's fine, really. I mean, that kind of shit's all over the Star Wars fiction.
However, just because you "fall" from one tradition doesn't necessarily make you another. Every Jedi who falls to the Dark Side doesn't automatically become a Sith, even before the Rule of Two made it so there was only two Sith.
If you're a Jedi who has fallen to the Dark Side, you're a fallen Jedi who has abandoned his teachings. You're not a Sith.
If you travel to Korriban and you train as a Sith, or get you a Sith holocron to learn from, or be knighted by some Sith Lord, then you're a Jedi who became a Sith.
Otherwise, you're just another fallen Jedi.
If you're a Sith who follows the Light Side of the Force, who abandons the path of anger, selfishness, destruction and impulsive usage of the Force, you're not really a Sith anymore. You've fallen from the Sith path, and went into a different direction with your usage of the Force. This does not make you a Jedi. Travel to the Jedi Academy (if they'll take you), be taken in as an unofficial Padawan by a Jedi Master, etc. then you're (arguably) a Jedi.
If you were a Jedi in the first place, fell to the Dark Side and even joined the Sith, then redeemed yourself, you could say you are a redeemed Jedi, and a former Sith.
If you were a Sith in the first place, embraced the Light, somehow got yourself into the Jedi, then fell back to the Dark Side, you could say you are a "redeemed" Sith, and a former Jedi.
Hope this helps, it sure hurt my soul to write something this nerdy!
I'm going to be a Sith who develops moral qualms as he is forced to face his son in battle. Or a Jedi who doesn't have anyone who understands him, and his feelings, and so turns to the dark side. Hmmm, waitaminute.
Are you kidding me? No one would ever want to play as that?
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Anyway, looking over everything so far on this MMO and I can barely wait. I played the hell out of SWG, I love the SW universe...Yes, I have read nearly every EU book. I'll be the insane Mando'ade blowing the 'ell outta your emo lovy dovy jetii and dar'jetii
.....faggots, j/k
Does this mean Sith who turn to the Light Side become Stand-Up Sith?
Do they get a drummer NPC follower?
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
You took a terrible joke and executed it well. Bravo.
That said, why is this MMO almost completely ignoring KOTOR 2? I can elaborate if I'm the only one that thinks this.
edit: I'm not sure I follow you, Faynor. Elaborate and then I'll decide if I agree or not.
XBL: Torn Hoodie
@hoodiethirteen
i mean, i know he called himself a "grey Jedi" or whatever, I have a feeling that he was more of a Light sith
of course its been like 5 years since i played that game
So, is the Sith Empire in this supposed to be the real Sith Empire that Revan discovered in the Unknown Regions, or the incompetent poseurs that periodically hang out on Korriban?