I think that if you show more detailed character shots people wouldn't complain as much, such as the close up of redmask.
The problem with the far away shot is it just looks like a quickly done piece of shit blob that has no character what so ever.
But getting the close ups, you see the head/mask/whatever floats off the body, and the communication device kinda of sinks into the hand etc. makes it look nice.
I like that last episode though.
And I think the better coloring of that last episode does a lot of good for the characters, in contrast to what appears to be bucket fill coloring of the first episode.
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
I think that if you show more detailed character shots people wouldn't complain as much, such as the close up of redmask.
The problem with the far away shot is it just looks like a quickly done piece of shit blob that has no character what so ever.
But getting the close ups, you see the head/mask/whatever floats off the body, and the communication device kinda of sinks into the hand etc. makes it look nice.
Pretty much a better-explained version of what I was thinking, yeah.
I like the character designs, and the concept is cool. But this looks like a chunk out of the middle of a story, it's hard to understand. I'm definetlely interested though.
EDIT- Wait, I just saw the other page. Much better
I can't look at the character without thinking "God, that can't have taken more than 30 seconds to model".
I like the panel layout, colour choices ... pretty much everything except the char design. It's not entirely bad, just could do with a bit more development.
I love it, I don't think the characters work perfectly. Although on the last panel of the new one Ab and his flying machine seem kinda fuzzy and blended together. I would read this comic.
Actually I might say that the flying machine looks fuzzy in all panels for me for some reason. Might be my resolution though.
Ab is easily destinquishable being beige but it is hard to tell what is what when looking at the other characters.
You've got light blue tomb-monkeys but also light blue people in the city for example.
Seems kinda random and might lead to readers mixing up people with animals etc, especially in a world where all beings are more or less featureless.
You could've made all monkeys different shades of green while keeping the (not main character-) people grey-blueish / grey-purplish so one can tell them better apart.
On the overall your idea is awesome tho (and I caught the shrinking sword on the first time I saw it btw ).
This newer page is pretty much awesome. I agree about the usage of the term "tomb raiding", the game makes it a little cliche. The wider frames also help a lot in figuring out what exactly is going on. The motion lines and shading go a long way as well.
Imagine what each one would look like if it were a real organism, then update the model with some musculature or a skeleton.
And some textures for crissakes!
This is awesome, but it could be so much awesome-er.
This is what I meant:
There. That took me, like, 10 minutes to draw. I bet you could model it pretty quickly as well.
I really like the amorphous characters, although I agree with Run Run Run in that the characters colors might need a bit of work.
Also, either it's a strange coincidence, or I'm just being a jerk, but is anyone else reminded strangely of Zeruel (14th Angel) from Evangelion when they look at Ab?
Then you obviously have never done 3d modelling ... but i agree. some time spent refining the character would be time well spent in my opinion.
I used to and I've seen people churn out some incredibly detailed stuff in about that time frame.
With a program like zBrush I know for a fact that it is possible to make a model like that in about 15 minutes if you're good. Polygon/Sub-dv modeling would probably take longer, but not really long.
The hardest part would be rigging it properly, of course. That would take the longest I'd guess.
But I'm mainly posting here to throw in my vote that I really don't like the character design, I think Dr. Dastard's is a much better rendition.
really, my only problem is that you call his profession "tomb raiding"
Yes, I know, but it's not my fault that Eidos has tainted the most succinct way of saying "Person who goes into ancient burial grounds and takes stuff." I tried to avoid it, but it was just so concise.
Ab is easily destinquishable being beige but it is hard to tell what is what when looking at the other characters.
You've got light blue tomb-monkeys but also light blue people in the city for example.
I actually have a reason for this. Ab is the only beige/orange creature you will ever see. They call him Redmask because it's actually a trait unique to him. It ties in to Air and Earth being the only elements, but I don't want to give it all away.
Squeee, that's great, I'm saving it. It is pretty dead-on as far as my original concepts go, though Ab's legs aren't meant to be humanoid...
It's extraordinarily hard to tell in the comics, but Ab is actually centauroid, it's just that his four-legged pelvis is right around where a human's ankles are.
Also, either it's a strange coincidence, or I'm just being a jerk, but is anyone else reminded strangely of Zeruel (14th Angel) from Evangelion when they look at Ab?
Yeah, I can see the resemblance. I didn't do it intentionally, but, then again, the angels are one of the few bits of Evangelion I haven't tried to block from my memory.
I used to and I've seen people churn out some incredibly detailed stuff in about that time frame.
With a program like zBrush I know for a fact that it is possible to make a model like that in about 15 minutes if you're good. Polygon/Sub-dv modeling would probably take longer, but not really long.
The hardest part would be rigging it properly, of course. That would take the longest I'd guess.
But I'm mainly posting here to throw in my vote that I really don't like the character design, I think Dr. Dastard's is a much better rendition.
Hmm, I've never used zBrush ($489!) but I will look into it. The main problem here besides time to model is time to render. Right now, with the render split into two layers, it takes about 15 minutes for an average panel, and that's fine, but anything longer and it becomes a really aggrivating proccess to get each panel laid out correctly.
Hmm, I've never used zBrush ($489!) but I will look into it. The main problem here besides time to model is time to render. Right now, with the render split into two layers, it takes about 15 minutes for an average panel, and that's fine, but anything longer and it becomes a really aggrivating proccess to get each panel laid out correctly.
Well try the demo before you slap down any money. I've seen videos of people doing amazing stuff with it but goddamn I couldn't wrap my head around the user interface. This was several years ago and I see they've released a new version since then. Still, I knew people who loved it. It's more of a digital sculptoring program than anything. You start out with primitives, and make a basic shape and then you can sculpt that into something really detailed (They used zBrush to create displacement maps for the LOTR movie creatures), or you can export as a new mesh. It's pretty neat.
Render times I understand. Is ther a reason you don't render out (hardware render perhaps) preview frames without the fancing shading for panel layout?
Okay, so, considering all the comments about my horrendous character designs, I figured I'd go back and see what I could do to make Ab less... well, lame.
Here are some quick "sketches" of two new model designs, un-rigged as of yet.
First is a slight alteration of the current design, with added fingers and a more defined centaur section:
Images Removed.
Second, we have a two-legged, more humanoid Ab, with unintentional pot-belly:
Images Removed.
And finally, the above models, with a new texture I was hoping would make them look "cloudy," but instead caused them to look like they were made of marshmallows:
Whoa hey ho, ZBrush isn't the only modelling program that can make featureless amorphous blobs. Sure, it has the ZSphere modelling thing, but it's not super duper special or anything. Blender seems to be working out pretty well for you, there's no point in going into any deeper modelling programs (especially something like ZBrush that doesn't render at all) if Blender serves your needs.
As for render speeds, well, I don't have an familiarity with Blender, but depending on however large you're rendering these out and the materials you're using, your time should be a lot less than 15 minutes in something like Maya or 3dsmax with mental ray. But again, you don't want to spend any money on some modelling program if what you've got works fine.
How fast is your computer? You might be able to pick up a real cheap CPU upgrade to speed things up.
Edit: As for your new designs... frankly I like who he is right now. You're probably going to have trouble making him any "cloudier" than he is right now with what Blender offers (although I'm not entirely sure).
Render times I understand. Is ther a reason you don't render out (hardware render perhaps) preview frames without the fancing shading for panel layout?
I do, but half the time I need to actually check the quality of the shadows themselves, and occasionally I'll only notice problems on the full-sized 16-Sample-Ambient-Occlusioned final shot.
I used your exact same camera angle in that first shot. That was really what I had in mind when I got my "marvelous idea."
I was gonna do more, but I am very, very lazy.
Plus, I logged on and saw what you actually intended for the character was entirely, entirely different from what I thought.
After that, my marvelous idea didn't seem so marvelous any more.
Anyway, hope you enjoyed these b]very unfinished[/b pictures, DE?AD.
Those are excellent, Dr. Dastard, your Ab is very Earthworm Jim-esque, I like it. Also, I plan to steal the "monkey tries to grab belt" bit.
However, I think I'm going to go with the centaur for now, then switch to bipedal a little further into the story: Ab is going to break his hind legs during the middle of a chase scene. He escapes by quickly tearing his over-long abdomen in two, thus forming new, longer legs.
Thoughts on Hands
So I've got a new, improved Ab model, but I'm still trying to figure out how to do his hands. Most things I've tried have fallen into two categories: Things that Don't Look Right, and Things that Don't Move Right.
Here's some of the options so far:
1. Extend-a-tendril: This was the original idea, and meant to sell the concept that these people don't follow normal logic, and neither does the world they live in.
A pointy tentacle which is retracted into the arm most of the time, but extends when a character needs to do fine manipulation, press a button, etc.
Images Removed.
2. Frog-Hands: A bubbly, two-jointed finger. Not much to say about it really.
Images Removed.
3. Udder-Fingers: Again, fairly self-explanatory, though these could work as retractable as well.
Images Removed.
4. The Oven Mit: Not a fan of this one really, I just threw it in for completions sake.
But seriously...thanks. ^^
I might finish them sometime between now and the battle tourney. For some reason Ab is really fun to draw.
After working with a character like this, It makes me angry that I made Dr. D so skinny and unrealistic. I think I'm gonna re-design him so I can use more perspectives and such on him. He's rather flat at the moment.
And to DE?AD, the whole monkey grabbing at the belt thing was my version of your monkey trying to steal the cube thing. It never made sense to me that you started the comic with the cube in mid-air for some reason. I figured he'd have it on his belt.
(When he tossed the shoulder-monkey off, it would have ripped the cube from his belt, then Ab and the last monkey would have both gone for it and then I woulda done the "Your move, buddy," thing.)
Also, funny you mentioned his Earthworm Jim-esqueness. I happen to be a HUUUUUUUGE fan of Doug TenNapel.
And: that's crazy about him ripping himself in half. If anything, THAT is the most original thing I've heard in a long time. Heh.
But don't give away too much! I'm becoming attatched to the story. Heh.
Aaaaaaaand: I suggest the frog hands, but that's only because that's how I drew him. XD
After much delay and fiddling with Blender, here is the updated Page 1, immediately followed by the shiny new Page 2, in which I further toy with panel/page layout and formatting:
If I have learned one thing it is this: Sound Effects are hard.
Hell yeah, these last two pages are MUCH better. I really like the one background as he's speeding through the desert where the wountains are just flattish geometric shapes - reminds me of something by the Designers Republic for a Wipeout game for some reason...
Whew, I managed to view it all somehow You've bought me with the story, I hope you set up a website soon! Now on to comments!
The characters are indeed interesting. My main problem is the shape of Ab's back: it's somewhat too square in side-view (second panel on the first page), while the rest of his body is round- it's not really a nice contrast. Also, you tend to mix toon shading with normal (lambertor oren-nayar, whatever) shading, which makes it difficult for me to read the form in most of the panels on page 2. If you're afraid of making the chars too plastic (like the monkeys seem to be), use the Minnaert shader.
The lack of an exclamation mark at the end of FWUMP (page 2) makes it look kinda like a writing painted on the floor.
By the way, the characters remind me of something... are you, per chance, a fan of the Neverhood? Those blue fellas remind me of Skullmonkeys a LOT.
Anyway, if you need any help with Blender, ask away, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to help you. Good job- keep it up!
By the way, the characters remind me of something... are you, per chance, a fan of the Neverhood? Those blue fellas remind me of Skullmonkeys a LOT.
Tee Hee. Now they're accusing you of copying TenNapel. Hehehehe!
I agree with the thing about the shape of Ab's back, although it looks like you rounded it more in the second page. The tomb looks good, but I don't see much difference with the characters. If that's as detailed as you can make him, thanks to rendering times (etc.), I guess that's all you can do, though.
(Nice stuff, though. I'm actually really intrigued by the story so far. Like Forbe said: I would read this.)
The characters are indeed interesting. My main problem is the shape of Ab's back: it's somewhat too square in side-view (second panel on the first page), while the rest of his body is round- it's not really a nice contrast.
Yeah, the first page is still the old Ab model, the updated one has more of a rounded back and is a bit beefier in general.
Also, you tend to mix toon shading with normal (lambertor oren-nayar, whatever) shading, which makes it difficult for me to read the form in most of the panels on page 2. If you're afraid of making the chars too plastic (like the monkeys seem to be), use the Minnaert shader.
I am in fact using lambert, mainly because I can't manage to get the Toon diffuse shader to look at all decent. I'm pretty certain it's the lighting that's causing the oddities in those shots, though, as ever shader I tried seemed to have those stripe/shadow things.
The lack of an exclamation mark at the end of FWUMP (page 2) makes it look kinda like a writing painted on the floor.
Posts
this is definetly a big improvement over your first post to, lighter backgrounds and more shading on the character to give it umff
FaBuLoUs.
The problem with the far away shot is it just looks like a quickly done piece of shit blob that has no character what so ever.
But getting the close ups, you see the head/mask/whatever floats off the body, and the communication device kinda of sinks into the hand etc. makes it look nice.
I like that last episode though.
And I think the better coloring of that last episode does a lot of good for the characters, in contrast to what appears to be bucket fill coloring of the first episode.
Pretty much a better-explained version of what I was thinking, yeah.
EDIT- Wait, I just saw the other page. Much better
I like the panel layout, colour choices ... pretty much everything except the char design. It's not entirely bad, just could do with a bit more development.
Actually I might say that the flying machine looks fuzzy in all panels for me for some reason. Might be my resolution though.
Ab is easily destinquishable being beige but it is hard to tell what is what when looking at the other characters.
You've got light blue tomb-monkeys but also light blue people in the city for example.
Seems kinda random and might lead to readers mixing up people with animals etc, especially in a world where all beings are more or less featureless.
You could've made all monkeys different shades of green while keeping the (not main character-) people grey-blueish / grey-purplish so one can tell them better apart.
On the overall your idea is awesome tho (and I caught the shrinking sword on the first time I saw it btw
This is what I meant:
There. That took me, like, 10 minutes to draw. I bet you could model it pretty quickly as well.
However...he'll only have to model it once.
Anyway, I don't know if this is what you were picturing in your head when you came up with Ab, DE?AD, but this is what I see when I look at him.
Also, either it's a strange coincidence, or I'm just being a jerk, but is anyone else reminded strangely of Zeruel (14th Angel) from Evangelion when they look at Ab?
Links for the lazy:
http://www.animanga2000.net/evangelion/immagini/nge-zeru.jpg
http://www.panebianco3d.com/images/evangelion_01t.jpg
With a program like zBrush I know for a fact that it is possible to make a model like that in about 15 minutes if you're good. Polygon/Sub-dv modeling would probably take longer, but not really long.
The hardest part would be rigging it properly, of course. That would take the longest I'd guess.
But I'm mainly posting here to throw in my vote that I really don't like the character design, I think Dr. Dastard's is a much better rendition.
I have no idea how I managed this.
Yes, I know, but it's not my fault that Eidos has tainted the most succinct way of saying "Person who goes into ancient burial grounds and takes stuff." I tried to avoid it, but it was just so concise.
Thanks for the compliments, I'm glad you liked it.
Honestly? More like twenty-thirty minutes, but I've only started using Blender about a week ago.
I actually have a reason for this. Ab is the only beige/orange creature you will ever see. They call him Redmask because it's actually a trait unique to him. It ties in to Air and Earth being the only elements, but I don't want to give it all away.
Squeee, that's great, I'm saving it. It is pretty dead-on as far as my original concepts go, though Ab's legs aren't meant to be humanoid...
It's extraordinarily hard to tell in the comics, but Ab is actually centauroid, it's just that his four-legged pelvis is right around where a human's ankles are.
Yeah, I can see the resemblance. I didn't do it intentionally, but, then again, the angels are one of the few bits of Evangelion I haven't tried to block from my memory.
Hmm, I've never used zBrush ($489!) but I will look into it. The main problem here besides time to model is time to render. Right now, with the render split into two layers, it takes about 15 minutes for an average panel, and that's fine, but anything longer and it becomes a really aggrivating proccess to get each panel laid out correctly.
Damn you, Dr. Dastard!
Well try the demo before you slap down any money. I've seen videos of people doing amazing stuff with it but goddamn I couldn't wrap my head around the user interface. This was several years ago and I see they've released a new version since then. Still, I knew people who loved it. It's more of a digital sculptoring program than anything. You start out with primitives, and make a basic shape and then you can sculpt that into something really detailed (They used zBrush to create displacement maps for the LOTR movie creatures), or you can export as a new mesh. It's pretty neat.
Render times I understand. Is ther a reason you don't render out (hardware render perhaps) preview frames without the fancing shading for panel layout?
Here are some quick "sketches" of two new model designs, un-rigged as of yet.
First is a slight alteration of the current design, with added fingers and a more defined centaur section:
Images Removed.
Second, we have a two-legged, more humanoid Ab, with unintentional pot-belly:
Images Removed.
And finally, the above models, with a new texture I was hoping would make them look "cloudy," but instead caused them to look like they were made of marshmallows:
Images Removed.
Thoughts?
As for render speeds, well, I don't have an familiarity with Blender, but depending on however large you're rendering these out and the materials you're using, your time should be a lot less than 15 minutes in something like Maya or 3dsmax with mental ray. But again, you don't want to spend any money on some modelling program if what you've got works fine.
How fast is your computer? You might be able to pick up a real cheap CPU upgrade to speed things up.
Edit: As for your new designs... frankly I like who he is right now. You're probably going to have trouble making him any "cloudier" than he is right now with what Blender offers (although I'm not entirely sure).
I do, but half the time I need to actually check the quality of the shadows themselves, and occasionally I'll only notice problems on the full-sized 16-Sample-Ambient-Occlusioned final shot.
- great animation focused website http://www.catsuka.com
I used your exact same camera angle in that first shot. That was really what I had in mind when I got my "marvelous idea."
I was gonna do more, but I am very, very lazy.
Plus, I logged on and saw what you actually intended for the character was entirely, entirely different from what I thought.
After that, my marvelous idea didn't seem so marvelous any more.
Anyway, hope you enjoyed these b]very unfinished[/b pictures, DE?AD.
However, I think I'm going to go with the centaur for now, then switch to bipedal a little further into the story: Ab is going to break his hind legs during the middle of a chase scene. He escapes by quickly tearing his over-long abdomen in two, thus forming new, longer legs.
Thoughts on Hands
So I've got a new, improved Ab model, but I'm still trying to figure out how to do his hands. Most things I've tried have fallen into two categories: Things that Don't Look Right, and Things that Don't Move Right.
Here's some of the options so far:
1. Extend-a-tendril: This was the original idea, and meant to sell the concept that these people don't follow normal logic, and neither does the world they live in.
A pointy tentacle which is retracted into the arm most of the time, but extends when a character needs to do fine manipulation, press a button, etc.
Images Removed.
2. Frog-Hands: A bubbly, two-jointed finger. Not much to say about it really.
Images Removed.
3. Udder-Fingers: Again, fairly self-explanatory, though these could work as retractable as well.
Images Removed.
4. The Oven Mit: Not a fan of this one really, I just threw it in for completions sake.
Images Removed.
That is totally awesome!
NOW do you want to be on my team?
But seriously...thanks. ^^
I might finish them sometime between now and the battle tourney. For some reason Ab is really fun to draw.
After working with a character like this, It makes me angry that I made Dr. D so skinny and unrealistic. I think I'm gonna re-design him so I can use more perspectives and such on him. He's rather flat at the moment.
And to DE?AD, the whole monkey grabbing at the belt thing was my version of your monkey trying to steal the cube thing. It never made sense to me that you started the comic with the cube in mid-air for some reason. I figured he'd have it on his belt.
(When he tossed the shoulder-monkey off, it would have ripped the cube from his belt, then Ab and the last monkey would have both gone for it and then I woulda done the "Your move, buddy," thing.)
Also, funny you mentioned his Earthworm Jim-esqueness. I happen to be a HUUUUUUUGE fan of Doug TenNapel.
And: that's crazy about him ripping himself in half. If anything, THAT is the most original thing I've heard in a long time. Heh.
But don't give away too much! I'm becoming attatched to the story. Heh.
Aaaaaaaand: I suggest the frog hands, but that's only because that's how I drew him. XD
If I have learned one thing it is this: Sound Effects are hard.
Comments in a few minutes (my net connection slowed down to a crawl until Nov 1st).
EDIT: Fuck, we're gonna have to wait until then, I'm like on goddamn 56K.
Velly good.
The characters are indeed interesting. My main problem is the shape of Ab's back: it's somewhat too square in side-view (second panel on the first page), while the rest of his body is round- it's not really a nice contrast. Also, you tend to mix toon shading with normal (lambertor oren-nayar, whatever) shading, which makes it difficult for me to read the form in most of the panels on page 2. If you're afraid of making the chars too plastic (like the monkeys seem to be), use the Minnaert shader.
The lack of an exclamation mark at the end of FWUMP (page 2) makes it look kinda like a writing painted on the floor.
By the way, the characters remind me of something... are you, per chance, a fan of the Neverhood? Those blue fellas remind me of Skullmonkeys a LOT.
Anyway, if you need any help with Blender, ask away, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to help you. Good job- keep it up!
Tee Hee. Now they're accusing you of copying TenNapel. Hehehehe!
I agree with the thing about the shape of Ab's back, although it looks like you rounded it more in the second page. The tomb looks good, but I don't see much difference with the characters. If that's as detailed as you can make him, thanks to rendering times (etc.), I guess that's all you can do, though.
(Nice stuff, though. I'm actually really intrigued by the story so far. Like Forbe said: I would read this.)
Its nice to see someone take crits and roll with them! Truly inspiring.
anyhow reminds me of desert punk / sunabouzu as per the desert relic hunter thing, my rule of thumb is if it's postapocalyptic it is a-okay
Thanks, I plan to get to ten pages before I look into making a website, that way I'll have a bit of a buffer to spend.
Yeah, the first page is still the old Ab model, the updated one has more of a rounded back and is a bit beefier in general.
I am in fact using lambert, mainly because I can't manage to get the Toon diffuse shader to look at all decent. I'm pretty certain it's the lighting that's causing the oddities in those shots, though, as ever shader I tried seemed to have those stripe/shadow things.
The lack of an exclamation mark at the end of FWUMP (page 2) makes it look kinda like a writing painted on the floor.
I've never actually gotten a chance to play either of the Neverhood games, unfortunately.
Thanks, I may have to, considering I'm pretty much at the "hit buttons in a random order and hope something good happens" stage.
He does seem to be coming up a lot. I guess I'll take it as a compliment.
Hey, the story's world has already had two apocalypses and is rapidly approaching a third! I'm giving apocalypses away!
Anyway...
No new page yet, but I've been fiddling with character designs. Here's what I've got so far on the main cast:
Ab, now with fingers.
Arrah, strange woman Ab keeps running into.
Motny, Ab's not-quite faithful sidekick and bookie.
Surrok, President of Surrok Industries, Evil.
I'm especially fond of Motny (Monty?).