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Bayonetta - giving naughty little angels a good spanking.
o_O A catholic upbringing isn't why I find fan service in my games unnecessary/distasteful. :P
Inquisitor on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
I didn't say a catholic upbringing.
I said an upbringing within an influenced society. As it has been, for hundreds of years.
Plus it's not like they are the ones with the monopoly on those kinds of silly taboos.
It's a computer game and the character is not one who is going to give a damn about what anybody thinks about it. Why should I feel bad about that if the character doesn't? Especially when most are fine with a male character running around shirtless or sleeping with alien chicks they get into bed with bad lines? There's nothing overtly stupid about this game that isn't in every male game. See cos I don't know about you but I'm not built like kratos, and I'm not a japanese girly boy with western features acting like a cocky prick. That's just as shallow and sexist.
Jump on the terrible male stereotypes as well.
But...people don't.
Why?
Because they're games.
And I agree.
This is a game, it's awesome. Any bleating about it is socially accepted hypocrisy.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
the NG games are great games, but they aren't as good (or well made) as DMC 1 and 3. (4 to a lesser extent).
You've given a good description--however, your experience is not necessarily the universal one. Mine seems to be spending a lot more time on the offensive by comparison--I easily spend twice (sometime three times, depending on the difficult) as much of my time block and dodging, combined, actually attacking (I'm a fan of abusing the Flyling Swallow).
My DMC experience isn't as extensive, but it mostly consists of jump, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. Jump back, shoot, shoot, shoot. I acquired that in 3 and it led up to 4. Thus, as me and my friends (who mostly run sub-missions, since those are faster), agree--DMC is good, but the gameplay isn't as varied (or visceral) as NG or the sequel.
(I'm not going to delve in DMC4, since once I realized, "Crap, I've been here before and fought these exact same bosses, and it wasn't fun the first time" basically makes up the entire singleplayer element, my judgement was inevitably tainted. It does it worse than NG2, which is saying a lot.)
What I'm trying to say is that a close examination like this can vary a lot because in these sort of games, you find something that works and--since there's no multilayer element--you tend to stick with it. Bayonetta will probably be the same.
Though they're also throwing in the whole 'Kinky S&M Librarian with Freaky Hair Kung-Fu and Gun Heels'....which I don't know what to make of. We probably shouldn't assume just because it has some big names behind it that it ABSOLUTELY MUST BE GOOD SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT YOUR RESERVATIONS ASSHOLE, but nor do we know it'll suck. I'm going for somewhere between Ninja Blade Mediocre and a surprisingly good title. I'm sure there won't be as many crotch shots in the final product. Probably.
EDIT: Oh, and that narrator guy needs to freaking die. We can read, right guys?
I don't really like to say this, but you're doing it wrong :P You should never, ever, be dealing damage with the guns, except maybe sporadic grenade launcher/lady's gun/pandora use or something like that. It's a lot more streamlined than NG, which personally I prefer, but shooting is only really for keeping a combo going or juggling, or stunlocking or whatever, not for actualy damage dealing. But what you're saying; find something that works and stick with it? Really not how the game shines, in my opinion. It's giving you a streamlined, easy to use playground, you could at least try to be inventive with it :P
I can't imagine how long the game'd take to play focussing entirely on guns.
The backtracking I totally understand.
I think it'll probably be pretty sweet, but something certainly seemed off about that trailer, I think it just felt like it was trying too hard.
SilkyNumNuts on
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
You know, this is the sort of game where it will be definitely be fun to play, but noone sane will ever admit to owning it for fear of being labeled a deviant. Sort of like alot of JRPG's.
That trailer in the OP is pretty fucking embarassing to watch at some points. The level of fan-service is tangible.
You know, this is the sort of game where it will be definitely be fun to play, but noone sane will ever admit to owning it for fear of being labeled a deviant. Sort of like alot of JRPG's.
That trailer in the OP is pretty fucking embarassing to watch at some points. The level of fan-service is tangible.
No, it's actually ok. You're just repressed.
Free your mind, and the crotch shots will follow.
NotASenator on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
Don't run.
Argue with me.
I'm waiting for you.
Why are you runnin?
I think your judgement of this is shitty, and I have outlined why. I want to know why you think its shitty with better reasons than "oh because sane people believe that" or silly snide remarks. Who knows maybe you'll change my mind eh. You might have a damn good reason, be a shame if you didn't mention it.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
You know, this is the sort of game where it will be definitely be fun to play, but noone sane will ever admit to owning it for fear of being labeled a deviant. Sort of like alot of JRPG's.
That trailer in the OP is pretty fucking embarassing to watch at some points. The level of fan-service is tangible.
No, it's actually ok. You're just repressed.
Free your mind, and the crotch shots will follow.
I'm not repressed at all. If I want to look at porn, i'll damn well look at porn, and probably get my hard-drive riddled with viruses in the process of doing so.
The entire premise of the game is just ludicrous, not that that's a bad thing. DMC was insane too, and had some awkward moments (Example: The "I wanted to be the one to fill your soul with LIIIIGGHHHHT" scene.). This is like they distilled that into it's basic essence, then drizzled it down some crazy british, gun toting, lolita, librarians throat.
I mean, the dialogue in the trailer goes way beyond B movie badness. It transcends that, even.
Archonex on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
Why?
Your opinion isn't magical you see. You haven't given any reasoning behind your opinion other than "it's really bad" backed up by "it's ludicrous" which are what I like to call conclusions.
Time for the introduction! Maybe a bit of body? :winky:
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Considering the word "ludicrous" means "causing laughter because of absurdity," I really don't think any reasoning needs to be provided. She has high heel pistols.
Considering the word "ludicrous" means "causing laughter because of absurdity," I really don't think any reasoning needs to be provided. She has high heel pistols.
And looks vaguely like Palin.
Couscous on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Considering the word "ludicrous" means "causing laughter because of absurdity," I really don't think any reasoning needs to be provided. She has high heel pistols.
Yes it does.
Why is it absurd?
So he's laughing at a conclusion when he hasn't even outlined his argument?
Bit premature of the man don't you think? Think of the poor lady.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Considering the word "ludicrous" means "causing laughter because of absurdity," I really don't think any reasoning needs to be provided. She has high heel pistols.
Yes it does.
Why is it absurd?
So he's laughing at a conclusion when he hasn't even outlined his argument?
Bit premature of the man don't you think? Think of the poor lady.
"Why is it absurd?"
Um, what? Do I need to define absurd as well?
"utterly or obviously senseless, illogical"
I would describe pretty much everything in this game as precisely that. The character bodyslams a dragon in one of the videos. Don't be ridiculous and argue that this game isn't absurd, because that's precisely what it's trying to be.
BloodySloth on
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
Your opinion isn't magical you see. You haven't given any reasoning behind your opinion other than "it's really bad" backed up by "it's ludicrous" which are what I like to call conclusions.
Time for the introduction! Maybe a bit of body? :winky:
First of all, I never said the gameplay would be bad.
Second of all, if you can't see how insane the concept of a british woman who wears clothing that makes her look like a cross between a fetishist, a librarian, and possibly a stripper, with guns attached to every limb she has so she can kill shit faster, then I don't know what to say.
The dialogue is bad. Like, original DMC cheesy bad but on a more extreme level. They've got a hipster wearing a scarf spouting out "you killed my father, BAYONETTA!" lines, and the librarian/bondage/stripper chick hitting on said scarf wearing hipster and demurely calling him a "cheshire puss". A gratuitous cutscene with no less then three crotch shots, also, her apparently stripping down to her underwear at the end of the fight, and she has, i'll say it again, guns attached to every fucking limb.
If that's not ludicrous, then what is?
Edit: Also, where the fuck is her bayonet? I mean, you'd think from the name she might have one.
Edit 2: Also, the nice thing about opinions is that yes, they are magical. Anyone can have them. They're alot like assholes, you see.
I think your judgement of this is shitty, and I have outlined why. I want to know why you think its shitty with better reasons than "oh because sane people believe that" or silly snide remarks. Who knows maybe you'll change my mind eh. You might have a damn good reason, be a shame if you didn't mention it.
Wait, is this directed at me? I wasn't running, I was off doing other stuff. :P
I don't like fan service in my games/media because I find it demeaning to women. I also don't like male stereotypes either, as I find them limiting to men. It's not enough to make me not buy, or even dislike a game because it's so prevalent. But it's enough to make me think "I would prefer if they had done X instead of Y".
I can't help but feel that this is derailing the thread though.
I'm hoping this reaches...nay...surpasses God Hand-like levels of ridiculousness. I think the "suplex a giant fucking dragon" scene at the end of the trailer has sealed the deal for me as a day one purchase (also, fucking creator of God Hand). I'm a sucker for absurd suplexes.
As someone who's watched an innumerable amount of anime, I think the amount of fanservice in this just bounces off me like rain. I may have become desensitized to it.
PunkBoyThank you! And thank you again!Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
This game looks even more ridiculous now, but in a good way. I may pick it up on the cheap eventually. It actually reminds me of Bloodrayne for some reason. It's kind of a shame that series is dead.
And not to deviate too much, but didn't Rumble Roses actually have a solid wrestling system?
PunkBoy on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
Stop having a serious fucking conversation in here.
Especially in a game with someone that has guns on her fucking feet.
Zen Vulgarity on
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ViscountalphaThe pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered Userregular
This game looks even more ridiculous now, but in a good way. I may pick it up on the cheap eventually. It actually reminds me of Bloodrayne for some reason. It's kind of a shame that series is dead.
And not to deviate too much, but didn't Rumble Roses actually have a solid wrestling system?
I honestly think no one was really paying attention to that- at all.
Bayonetta is supposed to be out there and be the sexy librarian/angel/demon killer. I think its hilarious people are trying to have a serious discussion about something that isn't serious at all. You need to take things at face value.
Viscountalpha on
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
I just looked in here for the first time.
This game is the first thing I've seen that makes me want a PS3/360.
Considering the word "ludicrous" means "causing laughter because of absurdity," I really don't think any reasoning needs to be provided. She has high heel pistols.
Yes it does.
Why is it absurd?
So he's laughing at a conclusion when he hasn't even outlined his argument?
Bit premature of the man don't you think? Think of the poor lady.
"Why is it absurd?"
Um, what? Do I need to define absurd as well?
"utterly or obviously senseless, illogical"
I would describe pretty much everything in this game as precisely that. The character bodyslams a dragon in one of the videos. Don't be ridiculous and argue that this game isn't absurd, because that's precisely what it's trying to be.
Exactly. It's trying to be.
That's why it is both absurd....and that's not a criticism anymore. The context is all wrong.
It's like calling me a pedantic prick about something relatively trivial. I'll say thankyou and still expect you to define your argument properly. Why is it absurd to him. Now you've taken up his torch I'll ask the same of you, with the following proviso:
In any case I'm not objecting to anything other than the random omg she showed crotch and this is REALLY BAD overtones, not the weapons and things. Man there's been worse. Guitar anyone?
Ridiculous. And awesome.
That's the thing I'm trying to work out. What has switched this from run of the mill DMC style cheesy to unacceptable. I'm really interested in knowing this, I'm not just reacting for the sake of it.
If you don't hold that it's unacceptable then we cool, I was mostly sparked by the guy who said he wanted to "get into games to stop shit like this" then buggered off after a snarky comment.
Your opinion isn't magical you see. You haven't given any reasoning behind your opinion other than "it's really bad" backed up by "it's ludicrous" which are what I like to call conclusions.
Time for the introduction! Maybe a bit of body? :winky:
First of all, I never said the gameplay would be bad.
Second of all, if you can't see how insane the concept of a british woman who wears clothing that makes her look like a cross between a fetishist, a librarian, and possibly a stripper, with guns attached to every limb she has so she can kill shit faster, then I don't know what to say.
The dialogue is bad. Like, original DMC cheesy bad but on a more extreme level. They've got a hipster wearing a scarf spouting out "you killed my father, BAYONETTA!" lines, and the librarian/bondage/stripper chick hitting on said scarf wearing hipster and demurely calling him a "cheshire puss". A gratuitous cutscene with no less then three crotch shots, also, her apparently stripping down to her underwear at the end of the fight, and she has, i'll say it again, guns attached to every fucking limb.
If that's not ludicrous, then what is?
Edit: Also, where the fuck is her bayonet? I mean, you'd think from the name she might have one.
Edit 2: Also, the nice thing about opinions is that yes, they are magical. Anyone can have them. They're alot like assholes, you see.
Thanks, I try to be.
Anyway, so I don't see why these things are absurd, as I explained to the guy above.
They don't seem any more absurd than anything else I've seen from these companies. I laugh at it just as much as you, but I want to see more of it. After all it makes me laugh. Why is it that this sparks a negative reaction in you? I'm acting like an ass about it, but I'm actually interested.
Mind you if you hated those things in those games too I can see how that is being consistent....but why would someone have to be insane to be proud of owning the game? I can't see how you are arriving at that opinion?
I wouldn't have a problem with your opinion if you weren't making an unjustified general call with your "sane" crack.
I think your judgement of this is shitty, and I have outlined why. I want to know why you think its shitty with better reasons than "oh because sane people believe that" or silly snide remarks. Who knows maybe you'll change my mind eh. You might have a damn good reason, be a shame if you didn't mention it.
Wait, is this directed at me? I wasn't running, I was off doing other stuff. :P
I don't like fan service in my games/media because I find it demeaning to women. I also don't like male stereotypes either, as I find them limiting to men. It's not enough to make me not buy, or even dislike a game because it's so prevalent. But it's enough to make me think "I would prefer if they had done X instead of Y".
I can't help but feel that this is derailing the thread though.
Nah I was talking to that NotACrook guy.
This is a good consistent opinion I can get behind. :winky: We cool.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I'm hoping this reaches...nay...surpasses God Hand-like levels of ridiculousness. I think the "suplex a giant fucking dragon" scene at the end of the trailer has sealed the deal for me as a day one purchase (also, fucking creator of God Hand). I'm a sucker for absurd suplexes.
As someone who's watched an innumerable amount of anime, I think the amount of fanservice in this just bounces off me like rain. I may have become desensitized to it.
Whoah whoah.
This is from the guy behind God Hand?
This game is now near the top of my "must keep an eye on" list.
Inquisitor on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I hate when Morninglord isn't on steam so I can't yell at him
Zen Vulgarity on
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2009
Absurd is a fair statement.
The guns on her feet have hand grips and triggers with no trigger guards.
Those pistols: Single shot design yet she is rapid firing them.
The clothes she is wearing, which happen to be made out of her own prehensile hair, has a zipper up the front.
The same amount of hair, mind you, that composes a dragon head/neck, or a giant arm that she uses to punch things with. I am also willing to bet that guillotine in the second video was made out of her hair.
Absurd is perfectly valid, and yet strangely is not a statement on quality.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Stop having a serious fucking conversation in here.
Especially in a game with someone that has guns on her fucking feet.
So, I hear this chick has guns on her feet.
I'm not sure what to think. Personally all the crotch shots and stripping just makes me roll my eyes. The whole thing seems to be trying way too hard to appeal to 13 year old boys. I'm not one of those, so I just sigh and want to move on. The fighting itself, however, looks like it could be just preposterous enough to work and be entertaining. There's no way to tell without trying a demo, is my opinion.
As for it being demeaning, well, it is. Like, it really is. Obviously, both genders get stereotyped to perfect characitures, where men are super buff monsters and women are skimpy-clothed temptresses, but the whole sexy fanservice thing Bayonetta has going on isn't just the basic vidya game stereotyping. If we got a bunch of drooly crotch shots of men, or if it was a guy with his clothes melting off and drawing sexy poses before shooting a bad guy with his feet, I feel comfortable in taking the assumption that a whole hell of a lot of people would be uncomfortable with it, too (admission: it would also be hilarious).
I'm sorry, no more serious discussion.
BloodySloth on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
I don't listen to you anyway when you tell me to stop, so what's the point.
Plus I must go to bed now so you can yell at me another day.
I'm going to dream about beating the crap out of giant dragons with hair claws.
I bet it wont be as hard as God hand though. That was specifically designed to emulate that old style of die repeatedly till you learn.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2009
Personally, I think this game is what we would see if Frank Miller were required to have a movie with a strong female lead. :P
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
Just one last point and then I wont be serious at all anymore I promise: I wasnt overmuch concerned with what was said, I just got the feeling that gasp sex was driving opinions to extremes when, to be honest, I didn't even fucking notice. I was like oh hey there which was immediately replaced by OH MY FUCKING GOD SHE MADE A DRAGON OUT OF HER HAIR that is so awesome I want to play this.
Because like I said.
I don't see anything more extreme here than I do in Dante. The stereotypes for each gender are different after all.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Stop having a serious fucking conversation in here.
Especially in a game with someone that has guns on her fucking feet.
I'm not sure what to think. Personally all the crotch shots and stripping just makes me roll my eyes. The whole thing seems to be trying way too hard to appeal to 13 year old boys. I'm not one of those, so I just sigh and want to move on. The fighting itself, however, looks like it could be just preposterous enough to work and be entertaining. There's no way to tell without trying a demo, is my opinion.
This is basically my opinion, from what we've seen so far the combat system looks like it could be right up there with God Hand, DMC and Ninja Gaiden Black in terms of combo building and fluidity. But i doubt I'll be buying this one because i dislike the puerile crotch and boob shots and ridiculously over-sexualised design for the heroine.
I'm not 13 anymore and i'm not driven by hormones alone, so when i look at it i think that its both mildly insulting to my intelligence and degrading to women. I'd be embarrassed to play this game around other people and i find the whole 'oh the stereotypes are different' and 'its TRYING to be over the top' arguments to be disingenuous hand-waving attempting to avoid the fact that its crap like that which helps to perpetuate the stigma against gaming as a hobby.
Stop having a serious fucking conversation in here.
Especially in a game with someone that has guns on her fucking feet.
I'm not sure what to think. Personally all the crotch shots and stripping just makes me roll my eyes. The whole thing seems to be trying way too hard to appeal to 13 year old boys. I'm not one of those, so I just sigh and want to move on. The fighting itself, however, looks like it could be just preposterous enough to work and be entertaining. There's no way to tell without trying a demo, is my opinion.
This is basically my opinion, from what we've seen so far the combat system looks like it could be right up there with God Hand, DMC and Ninja Gaiden Black in terms of combo building and fluidity. But i doubt I'll be buying this one because i dislike the puerile crotch and boob shots and ridiculously over-sexualised design for the heroine.
I'm not 13 anymore and i'm not driven by hormones alone, so when i look at it i think that its both mildly insulting to my intelligence and degrading to women. I'd be embarrassed to play this game around other people and i find the whole 'oh the stereotypes are different' and 'its TRYING to be over the top' arguments to be disingenuous hand-waving attempting to avoid the fact that its crap like that which helps to perpetuate the stigma against gaming as a hobby.
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
I'm glad I'm on the far end of my thirties so I'm not lugging around that twenty-somethingish social self conscious bullshit that gets in the way of me enjoying myself.
It's fun not giving a fuck what other people think about what kind of games I play.
How is this any more puerile and insulting than DMC or Ninja Gaiden? Ninja Gaiden, the game that has a woman with a watermelon chest being eaten by a huge tentacle monster for the sole reason of granting a glistening property to her bountiful bosom. Don't even get me started on DMC. The entire character of Gloria is basically the exact same thing as Bayonetta. Except she's not the main character I guess.
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
How is this any more puerile and insulting than DMC or Ninja Gaiden? Ninja Gaiden, the game that has a woman with a watermelon chest being eaten by a huge tentacle monster for the sole reason of granting a glistening property to her bountiful bosom.
I'm..totally..like..not going..to the store now..to buy that game..
I'm hoping this reaches...nay...surpasses God Hand-like levels of ridiculousness. I think the "suplex a giant fucking dragon" scene at the end of the trailer has sealed the deal for me as a day one purchase (also, fucking creator of God Hand). I'm a sucker for absurd suplexes.
As someone who's watched an innumerable amount of anime, I think the amount of fanservice in this just bounces off me like rain. I may have become desensitized to it.
Whoah whoah.
This is from the guy behind God Hand?
This game is now near the top of my "must keep an eye on" list.
Yea, Clover closed after God Hand and they now are Platinum Games with Shinji Mikami (Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe).
Everyone is taking this game waaaaay too seriously.
Hahaha. That's grand. We're bringing feminism and intellectual appeal about this game now.
I didn't know I was in D&D.
Well, the whining's about the same.
Because none of these things have anything to do with criticism of the game, right?
I kind of don't get it. People voice legitimate reasons why they don't find the game appealing, and others jump down their throats. Not finding really childishly done sex-appeal interesting doesn't make people stupid or self-conscious. It just means they don't like it. Why does this agitate people so much? I don't care if you like it, in fact I practically outright stated that I was going to try the demo to see if the gameplay matches up with the ridiculous fun it looks like it sets out to be. Why do you care so much that others don't like it?
How is this any more puerile and insulting than DMC or Ninja Gaiden? Ninja Gaiden, the game that has a woman with a watermelon chest being eaten by a huge tentacle monster for the sole reason of granting a glistening property to her bountiful bosom. Don't even get me started on DMC. The entire character of Gloria is basically the exact same thing as Bayonetta. Except she's not the main character I guess.
It's not. That's the problem with the industry, they treat their entire audience like ignorant, hyperactive, hypersexual children.
Hahaha. That's grand. We're bringing feminism and intellectual appeal about this game now.
I didn't know I was in D&D.
Well, the whining's about the same.
Because none of these things have anything to do with criticism of the game, right?
I kind of don't get it. People voice legitimate reasons why they don't find the game appealing, and others jump down their throats. Not finding really childishly done sex-appeal interesting doesn't make people stupid or self-conscious. It just means they don't like it. Why does this agitate people so much? I don't care if you like it, in fact I practically outright stated that I was going to try the demo to see if the gameplay matches up with the ridiculous fun it looks like it sets out to be. Why do you care so much that others don't like it?
Whatever. This is way off-track by now anyway.
They are defensive about it because they feel the need to be defensive about it. I think that's pretty telling. They know it's a guilty pleasure, so they feel guilty about it and try to justify it by comparing it to other things or whatever.
the NG games are great games, but they aren't as good (or well made) as DMC 1 and 3. (4 to a lesser extent).
You've given a good description--however, your experience is not necessarily the universal one. Mine seems to be spending a lot more time on the offensive by comparison--I easily spend twice (sometime three times, depending on the difficult) as much of my time block and dodging, combined, actually attacking (I'm a fan of abusing the Flyling Swallow).
My DMC experience isn't as extensive, but it mostly consists of jump, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. Jump back, shoot, shoot, shoot. I acquired that in 3 and it led up to 4. Thus, as me and my friends (who mostly run sub-missions, since those are faster), agree--DMC is good, but the gameplay isn't as varied (or visceral) as NG or the sequel.
(I'm not going to delve in DMC4, since once I realized, "Crap, I've been here before and fought these exact same bosses, and it wasn't fun the first time" basically makes up the entire singleplayer element, my judgement was inevitably tainted. It does it worse than NG2, which is saying a lot.)
What I'm trying to say is that a close examination like this can vary a lot because in these sort of games, you find something that works and--since there's no multilayer element--you tend to stick with it. Bayonetta will probably be the same.
Though they're also throwing in the whole 'Kinky S&M Librarian with Freaky Hair Kung-Fu and Gun Heels'....which I don't know what to make of. We probably shouldn't assume just because it has some big names behind it that it ABSOLUTELY MUST BE GOOD SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT YOUR RESERVATIONS ASSHOLE, but nor do we know it'll suck. I'm going for somewhere between Ninja Blade Mediocre and a surprisingly good title. I'm sure there won't be as many crotch shots in the final product. Probably.
EDIT: Oh, and that narrator guy needs to freaking die. We can read, right guys?
I don't really like to say this, but you're doing it wrong :P You should never, ever, be dealing damage with the guns, except maybe sporadic grenade launcher/lady's gun/pandora use or something like that. It's a lot more streamlined than NG, which personally I prefer, but shooting is only really for keeping a combo going or juggling, or stunlocking or whatever, not for actualy damage dealing. But what you're saying; find something that works and stick with it? Really not how the game shines, in my opinion. It's giving you a streamlined, easy to use playground, you could at least try to be inventive with it :P
I can't imagine how long the game'd take to play focussing entirely on guns.
The backtracking I totally understand.
I think it'll probably be pretty sweet, but something certainly seemed off about that trailer, I think it just felt like it was trying too hard.
I am not the least bit surprised I was playing it wrong. Similarly, you're doing NG2 wrong by constantly being on defense--you should be dodging/blocking no more than half the time, and that's a liberal estimation. You'd be better off spending no more than a forth your time during combat on the defensive. Seriously, being on defensive effective negates the entire environmental element--wall running, jumping, attacking off walls--since you can't do any of these things while blocking. Not to mention the element of lining up enemies to strike multiple targets at once....
In other words, you did it wrong. :P I mean, you can still finish the game, but it's really only half the experience. Though NG2 is more forgiving in the respect that they take away the time constraints--you play NG1 like that, and...well, you're just doing it wrong, no excuses. Personally, I still find DMC4 to be too easy to beat without being inventive (especially since the second half of the game is..well, basically the first half of the game, but in different colors). They really should have mixed it up a bit more...but, no game is perfect. And that's neither here nor there.
I guess I'm the odd guy out. I'm still gonna wait to see how it turns out before considering buying it. :?
Same here. There are moments that look very cool (and I give them points for creativity/wierdness--though not necessarily things I'd personally like), but the game could still absolutely suck. Then again, I also waited for various reviews of NG1/NG2/Pretty much every other game I love. That might make me too cautious.
How is this any more puerile and insulting than DMC or Ninja Gaiden? Ninja Gaiden, the game that has a woman with a watermelon chest being eaten by a huge tentacle monster for the sole reason of granting a glistening property to her bountiful bosom. Don't even get me started on DMC. The entire character of Gloria is basically the exact same thing as Bayonetta. Except she's not the main character I guess.
Well, there's the difference--they're side-characters. I personally think playing as Rachel is easily the best part of NG:Sigma (it's what separates it from a mediocre port of a very good game from an actually decent one), but the main element of the game would have worked if it was just, say, a doppleganger of the main character. The same could be said about DMC.
In Bayonetta's case, the S&M/Witch/Librarian/Hair Lady is the main character, so that brings her under more focus. And there are, truth be told, a lot of crotch shots.
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I said an upbringing within an influenced society. As it has been, for hundreds of years.
Plus it's not like they are the ones with the monopoly on those kinds of silly taboos.
It's a computer game and the character is not one who is going to give a damn about what anybody thinks about it. Why should I feel bad about that if the character doesn't? Especially when most are fine with a male character running around shirtless or sleeping with alien chicks they get into bed with bad lines? There's nothing overtly stupid about this game that isn't in every male game. See cos I don't know about you but I'm not built like kratos, and I'm not a japanese girly boy with western features acting like a cocky prick. That's just as shallow and sexist.
Jump on the terrible male stereotypes as well.
But...people don't.
Why?
Because they're games.
And I agree.
This is a game, it's awesome. Any bleating about it is socially accepted hypocrisy.
I don't really like to say this, but you're doing it wrong :P You should never, ever, be dealing damage with the guns, except maybe sporadic grenade launcher/lady's gun/pandora use or something like that. It's a lot more streamlined than NG, which personally I prefer, but shooting is only really for keeping a combo going or juggling, or stunlocking or whatever, not for actualy damage dealing. But what you're saying; find something that works and stick with it? Really not how the game shines, in my opinion. It's giving you a streamlined, easy to use playground, you could at least try to be inventive with it :P
I can't imagine how long the game'd take to play focussing entirely on guns.
The backtracking I totally understand.
I think it'll probably be pretty sweet, but something certainly seemed off about that trailer, I think it just felt like it was trying too hard.
That trailer in the OP is pretty fucking embarassing to watch at some points. The level of fan-service is tangible.
No, it's actually ok. You're just repressed.
Free your mind, and the crotch shots will follow.
Argue with me.
I'm waiting for you.
Why are you runnin?
I think your judgement of this is shitty, and I have outlined why. I want to know why you think its shitty with better reasons than "oh because sane people believe that" or silly snide remarks. Who knows maybe you'll change my mind eh. You might have a damn good reason, be a shame if you didn't mention it.
I'm not repressed at all. If I want to look at porn, i'll damn well look at porn, and probably get my hard-drive riddled with viruses in the process of doing so.
The entire premise of the game is just ludicrous, not that that's a bad thing. DMC was insane too, and had some awkward moments (Example: The "I wanted to be the one to fill your soul with LIIIIGGHHHHT" scene.). This is like they distilled that into it's basic essence, then drizzled it down some crazy british, gun toting, lolita, librarians throat.
I mean, the dialogue in the trailer goes way beyond B movie badness. It transcends that, even.
Your opinion isn't magical you see. You haven't given any reasoning behind your opinion other than "it's really bad" backed up by "it's ludicrous" which are what I like to call conclusions.
Time for the introduction! Maybe a bit of body? :winky:
And looks vaguely like Palin.
Yes it does.
Why is it absurd?
So he's laughing at a conclusion when he hasn't even outlined his argument?
Bit premature of the man don't you think? Think of the poor lady.
"Why is it absurd?"
Um, what? Do I need to define absurd as well?
"utterly or obviously senseless, illogical"
I would describe pretty much everything in this game as precisely that. The character bodyslams a dragon in one of the videos. Don't be ridiculous and argue that this game isn't absurd, because that's precisely what it's trying to be.
First of all, I never said the gameplay would be bad.
Second of all, if you can't see how insane the concept of a british woman who wears clothing that makes her look like a cross between a fetishist, a librarian, and possibly a stripper, with guns attached to every limb she has so she can kill shit faster, then I don't know what to say.
The dialogue is bad. Like, original DMC cheesy bad but on a more extreme level. They've got a hipster wearing a scarf spouting out "you killed my father, BAYONETTA!" lines, and the librarian/bondage/stripper chick hitting on said scarf wearing hipster and demurely calling him a "cheshire puss". A gratuitous cutscene with no less then three crotch shots, also, her apparently stripping down to her underwear at the end of the fight, and she has, i'll say it again, guns attached to every fucking limb.
If that's not ludicrous, then what is?
Edit: Also, where the fuck is her bayonet? I mean, you'd think from the name she might have one.
Edit 2: Also, the nice thing about opinions is that yes, they are magical. Anyone can have them. They're alot like assholes, you see.
Wait, is this directed at me? I wasn't running, I was off doing other stuff. :P
I don't like fan service in my games/media because I find it demeaning to women. I also don't like male stereotypes either, as I find them limiting to men. It's not enough to make me not buy, or even dislike a game because it's so prevalent. But it's enough to make me think "I would prefer if they had done X instead of Y".
I can't help but feel that this is derailing the thread though.
As someone who's watched an innumerable amount of anime, I think the amount of fanservice in this just bounces off me like rain. I may have become desensitized to it.
Weaboo List
And not to deviate too much, but didn't Rumble Roses actually have a solid wrestling system?
Especially in a game with someone that has guns on her fucking feet.
I honestly think no one was really paying attention to that- at all.
Bayonetta is supposed to be out there and be the sexy librarian/angel/demon killer. I think its hilarious people are trying to have a serious discussion about something that isn't serious at all. You need to take things at face value.
This game is the first thing I've seen that makes me want a PS3/360.
Exactly. It's trying to be.
That's why it is both absurd....and that's not a criticism anymore. The context is all wrong.
It's like calling me a pedantic prick about something relatively trivial. I'll say thankyou and still expect you to define your argument properly. Why is it absurd to him. Now you've taken up his torch I'll ask the same of you, with the following proviso:
In any case I'm not objecting to anything other than the random omg she showed crotch and this is REALLY BAD overtones, not the weapons and things. Man there's been worse. Guitar anyone?
Ridiculous. And awesome.
That's the thing I'm trying to work out. What has switched this from run of the mill DMC style cheesy to unacceptable. I'm really interested in knowing this, I'm not just reacting for the sake of it.
If you don't hold that it's unacceptable then we cool, I was mostly sparked by the guy who said he wanted to "get into games to stop shit like this" then buggered off after a snarky comment.
Thanks, I try to be.
Anyway, so I don't see why these things are absurd, as I explained to the guy above.
They don't seem any more absurd than anything else I've seen from these companies. I laugh at it just as much as you, but I want to see more of it. After all it makes me laugh. Why is it that this sparks a negative reaction in you? I'm acting like an ass about it, but I'm actually interested.
Mind you if you hated those things in those games too I can see how that is being consistent....but why would someone have to be insane to be proud of owning the game? I can't see how you are arriving at that opinion?
I wouldn't have a problem with your opinion if you weren't making an unjustified general call with your "sane" crack.
Nah I was talking to that NotACrook guy.
This is a good consistent opinion I can get behind. :winky: We cool.
Whoah whoah.
This is from the guy behind God Hand?
This game is now near the top of my "must keep an eye on" list.
The guns on her feet have hand grips and triggers with no trigger guards.
Those pistols: Single shot design yet she is rapid firing them.
The clothes she is wearing, which happen to be made out of her own prehensile hair, has a zipper up the front.
The same amount of hair, mind you, that composes a dragon head/neck, or a giant arm that she uses to punch things with. I am also willing to bet that guillotine in the second video was made out of her hair.
Absurd is perfectly valid, and yet strangely is not a statement on quality.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
So, I hear this chick has guns on her feet.
I'm not sure what to think. Personally all the crotch shots and stripping just makes me roll my eyes. The whole thing seems to be trying way too hard to appeal to 13 year old boys. I'm not one of those, so I just sigh and want to move on. The fighting itself, however, looks like it could be just preposterous enough to work and be entertaining. There's no way to tell without trying a demo, is my opinion.
As for it being demeaning, well, it is. Like, it really is. Obviously, both genders get stereotyped to perfect characitures, where men are super buff monsters and women are skimpy-clothed temptresses, but the whole sexy fanservice thing Bayonetta has going on isn't just the basic vidya game stereotyping. If we got a bunch of drooly crotch shots of men, or if it was a guy with his clothes melting off and drawing sexy poses before shooting a bad guy with his feet, I feel comfortable in taking the assumption that a whole hell of a lot of people would be uncomfortable with it, too (admission: it would also be hilarious).
I'm sorry, no more serious discussion.
Plus I must go to bed now so you can yell at me another day.
I'm going to dream about beating the crap out of giant dragons with hair claws.
I bet it wont be as hard as God hand though. That was specifically designed to emulate that old style of die repeatedly till you learn.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Because like I said.
I don't see anything more extreme here than I do in Dante. The stereotypes for each gender are different after all.
This is basically my opinion, from what we've seen so far the combat system looks like it could be right up there with God Hand, DMC and Ninja Gaiden Black in terms of combo building and fluidity. But i doubt I'll be buying this one because i dislike the puerile crotch and boob shots and ridiculously over-sexualised design for the heroine.
I'm not 13 anymore and i'm not driven by hormones alone, so when i look at it i think that its both mildly insulting to my intelligence and degrading to women. I'd be embarrassed to play this game around other people and i find the whole 'oh the stereotypes are different' and 'its TRYING to be over the top' arguments to be disingenuous hand-waving attempting to avoid the fact that its crap like that which helps to perpetuate the stigma against gaming as a hobby.
thank fuck for that
It's fun not giving a fuck what other people think about what kind of games I play.
I didn't know I was in D&D.
Well, the whining's about the same.
I'm..totally..like..not going..to the store now..to buy that game..
I SWEAR.
Yea, Clover closed after God Hand and they now are Platinum Games with Shinji Mikami (Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe).
Everyone is taking this game waaaaay too seriously.
Weaboo List
Because none of these things have anything to do with criticism of the game, right?
I kind of don't get it. People voice legitimate reasons why they don't find the game appealing, and others jump down their throats. Not finding really childishly done sex-appeal interesting doesn't make people stupid or self-conscious. It just means they don't like it. Why does this agitate people so much? I don't care if you like it, in fact I practically outright stated that I was going to try the demo to see if the gameplay matches up with the ridiculous fun it looks like it sets out to be. Why do you care so much that others don't like it?
Whatever. This is way off-track by now anyway.
It's not. That's the problem with the industry, they treat their entire audience like ignorant, hyperactive, hypersexual children.
They are defensive about it because they feel the need to be defensive about it. I think that's pretty telling. They know it's a guilty pleasure, so they feel guilty about it and try to justify it by comparing it to other things or whatever.
I am not the least bit surprised I was playing it wrong. Similarly, you're doing NG2 wrong by constantly being on defense--you should be dodging/blocking no more than half the time, and that's a liberal estimation. You'd be better off spending no more than a forth your time during combat on the defensive. Seriously, being on defensive effective negates the entire environmental element--wall running, jumping, attacking off walls--since you can't do any of these things while blocking. Not to mention the element of lining up enemies to strike multiple targets at once....
In other words, you did it wrong. :P I mean, you can still finish the game, but it's really only half the experience. Though NG2 is more forgiving in the respect that they take away the time constraints--you play NG1 like that, and...well, you're just doing it wrong, no excuses. Personally, I still find DMC4 to be too easy to beat without being inventive (especially since the second half of the game is..well, basically the first half of the game, but in different colors). They really should have mixed it up a bit more...but, no game is perfect. And that's neither here nor there.
Same here. There are moments that look very cool (and I give them points for creativity/wierdness--though not necessarily things I'd personally like), but the game could still absolutely suck. Then again, I also waited for various reviews of NG1/NG2/Pretty much every other game I love. That might make me too cautious.
Well, there's the difference--they're side-characters. I personally think playing as Rachel is easily the best part of NG:Sigma (it's what separates it from a mediocre port of a very good game from an actually decent one), but the main element of the game would have worked if it was just, say, a doppleganger of the main character. The same could be said about DMC.
In Bayonetta's case, the S&M/Witch/Librarian/Hair Lady is the main character, so that brings her under more focus. And there are, truth be told, a lot of crotch shots.