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[COH ON]Company of Heroes - Wherein We Grudgingly Accept A Balanced(ish) Game

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Posts

  • KinderpartyKinderparty Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    No faction is UP in the game. Certain strategies and abilities are a little silly at times, but every faction has the ability to win the game just like the others. US players still have way more trouble dealing with PE than Brits do. A lot of the power has been sucked from the brits in that they're no longer the punching force they used to be. Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite can simply field more power than the Brits can, which used to be the reverse when more conventional volksgrenadier/scout car strategies were in use. Brits have turned into a counter punch army, and learning how to counter punch with them is quite the difficulty in itself. It's turned one of the easiest factions into one of the most peculiar to play. It takes a lot of replay watchin', judgement development, and trust in your units to really be an effective Brit player now.

    Kinderparty on
  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    No faction is UP in the game.

    US vs. PE in the current retail is a joke of a matchup balance-wise and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

    British at least have tools to fight PE retardation with infantry that don't have insane negative modifiers all over the place, US does not until the M8.

    Steel-Angel on
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  • TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    No faction is UP in the game.

    US vs. PE in the current retail is a joke of a matchup balance-wise and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

    British at least have tools to fight PE retardation with infantry that don't have insane negative modifiers all over the place, US does not until the M8.

    Don't bother. The vast, vast majority of the community agrees US is under powered vs PE and, to a lesser extent, Brits are under powered vs Wher now that the bike has been rediscovered (which rapes tommies and brens equally).

    Even the top PE players agree the faction is completely OP vs Americans, who have literally no way to counter the AC outside of stupidity by the operator. It comes out in 4 minutes when the only thing on the field is rifles and, in the hands of a top player, can wipe out any rifleman squad in any amount of cover, head to the US player's base, and prevent them from getting up a motor pool.

    TekDragon on
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I came across a rather unusual PE strategy playing US earlier: infantry swarm. My opponent built nothing but infantry. The last battle was his six squads (a combination of regular, elites, and anti-tank) all with some degree of veterancy, assaulting my position of two rifles, one ranger, two AT guns, two Shermans, and a sniper. He overran me and managed to kill everything but one Sherman. This was in part due to slow reaction times, but I was definitely surprised after the last few assaults he tried failed.

    My question: how would you counter that? It seems like suppression would be key, but I was assuming the Shermans would lay that down. Am I wrong? Did I need to activate my BAR squads or get some MGs?

    admanb on
  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The answer is always strafing run.

    Streltsy on
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  • TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    admanb wrote: »
    I came across a rather unusual PE strategy playing US earlier: infantry swarm. My opponent built nothing but infantry. The last battle was his six squads (a combination of regular, elites, and anti-tank) all with some degree of veterancy, assaulting my position of two rifles, one ranger, two AT guns, two Shermans, and a sniper. He overran me and managed to kill everything but one Sherman. This was in part due to slow reaction times, but I was definitely surprised after the last few assaults he tried failed.

    My question: how would you counter that? It seems like suppression would be key, but I was assuming the Shermans would lay that down. Am I wrong? Did I need to activate my BAR squads or get some MGs?

    In the current patch? You can counter PE blobs with strafing runs.

    In the next version just hit esc - end game.

    TekDragon on
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    TekDragon wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    I came across a rather unusual PE strategy playing US earlier: infantry swarm. My opponent built nothing but infantry. The last battle was his six squads (a combination of regular, elites, and anti-tank) all with some degree of veterancy, assaulting my position of two rifles, one ranger, two AT guns, two Shermans, and a sniper. He overran me and managed to kill everything but one Sherman. This was in part due to slow reaction times, but I was definitely surprised after the last few assaults he tried failed.

    My question: how would you counter that? It seems like suppression would be key, but I was assuming the Shermans would lay that down. Am I wrong? Did I need to activate my BAR squads or get some MGs?

    In the current patch? You can counter PE blobs with strafing runs.

    In the next version just hit esc - end game.

    What if they're good enough not to blob and get mowed down by a single MG?

    Like, comin at you from 15 angles with StG44s.

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    What if they're good enough not to blob and get mowed down by a single MG?

    Like, comin at you from 15 angles with StG44s.

    lol @ MG against PE.

    ZOOOOOOM! AC pulls up. Fires a single burst. MG dead. ZOOOOOM!

    TekDragon on
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    TekDragon wrote: »
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    What if they're good enough not to blob and get mowed down by a single MG?

    Like, comin at you from 15 angles with StG44s.

    lol @ MG against PE.

    ZOOOOOOM! AC pulls up. Fires a single burst. MG dead. ZOOOOOM!

    House + AP rounds?

    Not always the situation, but takes care of ACs pretty well.

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    TekDragon wrote: »
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    What if they're good enough not to blob and get mowed down by a single MG?

    Like, comin at you from 15 angles with StG44s.

    lol @ MG against PE.

    ZOOOOOOM! AC pulls up. Fires a single burst. MG dead. ZOOOOOM!

    House + AP rounds?

    Not always the situation, but takes care of ACs pretty well.

    We're talking Armored Cars, here.

    Last night I had a St Hillaire where I managed to take the city. I put TWO MGs into the front stone warehouse. It's a big stone fucking building.

    Two ACs drove up, knocked out both MGs in 2 bursts a piece. They were dying so fast they couldn't even shoot.

    Granted, Relic is giving ACs a MASSIVE nerf to their accuracy against green structures - but the scale of the nerf shows just how completely imbalanced they are in the current version. It makes it hilarious when you see the people (granted there's many 2-3 of them in the entire community) that think PE vs US is balanced.

    TekDragon on
  • KinderpartyKinderparty Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    It's going to be good to see Armored Cars finally nerfed. Though it's likely the patch won't even come out before Dawn of War II at this rate so who gives a fuck anymore.

    Kinderparty on
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So it's a vehicle that kills infantry. The hard counter is an anti-vehicle unit that is immune to anti-infantry rounds. Your choices as American are M8s to start, M10s, and Shermans. Soft (squishy) counter would be AT guns, airborne, and rangers. So if the AC comes out at 4 minutes, you need to get enough fuel for an M8 soon after. Maybe an OP on a high fuel as soon as possible, and tech right to motor pool? Mine the choke points to the US base to prevent an AC rush on building the motor pool.

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    It's going to be good to see Armored Cars finally nerfed. Though it's likely the patch won't even come out before Dawn of War II at this rate so who gives a fuck anymore.

    Werd. And now that I find out DoW2 will have directional cover and grenades (and likely all the other CoH goodies) I'm finding it hard to stay excited about CoH anymore.

    I'll miss my riflemen yelling about "Kraut mother fuckers", but at least I'll have my commander telling me to "Suffer not the alien, the mutant, the heretic"
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    So it's a vehicle that kills infantry. The hard counter is an anti-vehicle unit that is immune to anti-infantry rounds. Your choices as American are M8s to start, M10s, and Shermans. Soft (squishy) counter would be AT guns, airborne, and rangers. So if the AC comes out at 4 minutes, you need to get enough fuel for an M8 soon after. Maybe an OP on a high fuel as soon as possible, and tech right to motor pool? Mine the choke points to the US base to prevent an AC rush on building the motor pool.

    Agreed 110%. But there-in lies the major problem with PE.

    AC comes out at 4 minutes.

    M8 comes out at what? 7 minutes? 8? Not to mention that the AT-HT comes out BEFORE the AC, plus teller mines only take 1 CP.

    So what we see is that the AC comes out, is completely uncounterable (unless the operator fucks up) for 3-4 minutes, then a soft counter comes out (soft because the AC can run away), but PE gets 2 hard counters to that soft counter at the same time.

    Against rank <9 opponents it doesn't matter. After that, though, you get people who simply don't lose ACs to rifles, AT guns, recoiless rifles, or even rangers (although rangers are pretty decent, despite coming out at 3 cp).

    TekDragon on
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    TekDragon wrote: »
    It's going to be good to see Armored Cars finally nerfed. Though it's likely the patch won't even come out before Dawn of War II at this rate so who gives a fuck anymore.

    Werd. And now that I find out DoW2 will have directional cover and grenades (and likely all the other CoH goodies) I'm finding it hard to stay excited about CoH anymore.

    I'll miss my riflemen yelling about "Kraut mother fuckers", but at least I'll have my commander telling me to "Suffer not the alien, the mutant, the heretic"
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    So it's a vehicle that kills infantry. The hard counter is an anti-vehicle unit that is immune to anti-infantry rounds. Your choices as American are M8s to start, M10s, and Shermans. Soft (squishy) counter would be AT guns, airborne, and rangers. So if the AC comes out at 4 minutes, you need to get enough fuel for an M8 soon after. Maybe an OP on a high fuel as soon as possible, and tech right to motor pool? Mine the choke points to the US base to prevent an AC rush on building the motor pool.

    Agreed 110%. But there-in lies the major problem with PE.

    AC comes out at 4 minutes.

    M8 comes out at what? 7 minutes? 8? Not to mention that the AT-HT comes out BEFORE the AC, plus teller mines only take 1 CP.

    So what we see is that the AC comes out, is completely uncounterable (unless the operator fucks up) for 3-4 minutes, then a soft counter comes out (soft because the AC can run away), but PE gets 2 hard counters to that soft counter at the same time.

    Against rank <9 opponents it doesn't matter. After that, though, you get people who simply don't lose ACs to rifles, AT guns, recoiless rifles, or even rangers (although rangers are pretty decent, despite coming out at 3 cp).

    Fair, but the early game is what determines fuel income, which determines countdown to AC or M8. An OP on a high fuel can tip the tide for the American. Grouping your riflemen to force him to either: get schreks to kill the OP, or get incendiary grenades to counter rifles. Both slow down the rate to which he can build the AC. If he starts grouping his PGs to counter your riflemen, that means he's not capping with anything other than a ketten, which engineers (whilst capping) can drive off.

    At that point, it comes down to micro and adaptability. The problem with the expansion factions is that they can't be fought normally. The intuitive strategy for American/Wehrmacht may not be the right answer against a smart Brit or PE.

    Also, the M8 can handle an AT-HT, just how an M10 handles a PanzerIV. American mines come out at 0 CP.

    Oh yeah that reminds me. The PE are a vehicle faction. Use mines, okay? And tank traps. They're good.

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • CG FaggotryCG Faggotry BristolRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I wouldn't mind the ACs coming out so fast as a US player if they weren't so cheap on manpower.

    CG Faggotry on
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  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I wouldn't mind the ACs coming out so fast as a US player if they weren't so cheap on manpower.

    Yeah I just got screwed over the by the AC spam strat. My next game was against Piospam.

    Fuck this.

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • LookFreeGrenadeLookFreeGrenade Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So yeah, had this for a while but I've only really touched the single player and some comp-stomp skirmish. If anyone would like to help show me the ropes in online or just mess around with some bots i'm in

    Relic Online: Argleblarg

    LookFreeGrenade on
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  • FatsFats Corvallis, ORRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    TekDragon wrote: »
    I'll miss my riflemen yelling about "Kraut mother fuckers", but at least I'll have my commander telling me to "Suffer not the alien, the mutant, the heretic"

    I hope DoW2 has half the audio greatness that CoH has.

    Also, I remember back in June when I said to myself "Man, I'm gonna reinstall CoH when this new patch comes out. It's gonna be awesome." Welp.

    Fats on
  • zeppelinzeppelin Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    At least I'm not good enough to realize this game has shortcomings in the balance department.

    I still find it a ridiculously fun LAN game. Does anybody play 2v2s-4v4s? I love those so much it's not even funny.

    zeppelin on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I do. I have a couple friends here who play so we play 2v2s or 3v3s against the Internet sometimes. It's fun I guess but I still prefer 1v1s. Those are all I play when I'm on my own and those are pretty much all I shoutcast too.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    zeppelin wrote: »
    At least I'm not good enough to realize this game has shortcomings in the balance department.

    I still find it a ridiculously fun LAN game. Does anybody play 2v2s-4v4s? I love those so much it's not even funny.

    The American/Wehrmacht 3v3 match-ups on Montherme are a blast. Not a big fan of the other non-city type maps though. The 4v4s are just ridiculous to keep track of.

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • KamiKami Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Hey gang, I have a pretty goofy question.

    I own the boxed retail copy of both Company of Heroes and Opposing Fronts. I've installed both of them before, registered my serial keys, the whole shebang. Now, say I want to purchase the Gold pack over Steam. Would I be able to log in with my boxed retail information, or would I have to create a new online username?

    Also, Pretentious, many thanks for the invite. I felt bad for not having the games installed, ahaha.

    In other news, I feel a bit dirty for rebuying both games over Steam, as the only reason will be 1) ease of use for installing, and 2) keeping track of played time. :oops:

    Kami on
  • CohsaeCohsae Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    You could get xfire to keep track of your playing time. Works for me.

    Cohsae on
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  • polikupoliku Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Kami wrote: »
    Would I be able to log in with my boxed retail information, or would I have to create a new online username?

    Your serial keys are stored in the (master?) account that you log into Relic with, so you should be able to log into the account regardless of where you play.

    poliku on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    You can log in with any Relic Online account from any copy of the game.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • KamiKami Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I feel dirty, as I rebought the games on Steam. Hell, there could be worse games I could've bought multiple of, eh? Its' nice to know that my Relic Online info will transfer over to the Steam version, though.

    Now, should I install both CoH vanilla and Opposing Fronts if I want to hop into some games with you fine folks?

    Kami on
  • TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    Minus whale since it'll save you a ton of time on patches

    TekDragon on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I don't know what the hell "whale" is but yeah, install both.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    I don't know what the hell "whale" is but yeah, install both.

    Is the internet new where you're from?

    Minus whale.

    Might as well.

    TekDragon on
  • CohsaeCohsae Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    TekDragon wrote: »
    I don't know what the hell "whale" is but yeah, install both.

    Is the internet new where you're from?

    Minus whale.

    Might as well.

    I have never heard this ever.

    Cohsae on
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  • KamiKami Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Woo, installed and patched up. Now, I'll play through the campaigns in order, but if it's anything like other RTS titles I own, it'll do nothing to train me for online play.

    With this in mind, what's really the main difference between factions? I'm a very careful player, and enjoy either setting up ambushes, or surprising rush-happy enemies with some nice tricks. Is there one faction that would adhere more towards this playstyle?

    Kami on
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Kami wrote: »
    Woo, installed and patched up. Now, I'll play through the campaigns in order, but if it's anything like other RTS titles I own, it'll do nothing to train me for online play.

    With this in mind, what's really the main difference between factions? I'm a very careful player, and enjoy either setting up ambushes, or surprising rush-happy enemies with some nice tricks. Is there one faction that would adhere more towards this playstyle?

    Wehr and British are the more defensive factions.

    admanb on
  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Cohsae wrote: »
    TekDragon wrote: »
    I don't know what the hell "whale" is but yeah, install both.

    Is the internet new where you're from?

    Minus whale.

    Might as well.

    I have never heard this ever.

    Steel-Angel on
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  • SepahSepah Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Cohsae wrote: »
    TekDragon wrote: »
    I don't know what the hell "whale" is but yeah, install both.

    Is the internet new where you're from?

    Minus whale.

    Might as well.

    I have never heard this ever.

    Sepah on
  • polikupoliku Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Sepah wrote: »
    Cohsae wrote: »
    TekDragon wrote: »
    I don't know what the hell "whale" is but yeah, install both.

    Is the internet new where you're from?

    Minus whale.

    Might as well.

    I have never heard this ever.

    I live in Kansas, so the concept of electricity was unheard of until a couple years ago. That's the ticket, right?

    poliku on
  • TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    I'm not even going to try posting lolcats here.

    TekDragon on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The difference being we've all heard of lolcats.

    cohlolcatnl5.jpg

    Kami, you're right about single player not doing jack for your skillz. The best way to learn is to play a few skirmishes against progessively harder AI until you figure out all the company commanders and buildings and stuff, then play a few online matches and get your butt kicked or kick butt (it can happen), then read some strategies or watch some shoutcasts or something, then play lots of games. And have fun weeeeeeee

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • KinderpartyKinderparty Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'll play with you, Kami.

    Kinderparty on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Playing singleplayer is great to have some fun and learn the buildings and units and how they interact, and work on your basic management and micro skills.

    If you play multi fresh out of the box you'll get stomped and learn almost nothing.

    I mean you'll still get stomped once you get some singleplayer in, but you'll know why or at least have some idea of how to improve and what you need to do.

    Evil Multifarious on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'll play with you, Kami.
    itsatrapcn6.jpg

    TychoCelchuuu on
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