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Grades and the future
Zeromus
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
This is pretty much completely out of curiosity, since my GPA is fine and I'm not in any academic peril right now, but after having a discussion with my friends about the future, I'm wondering: how important are undergrad grades for employment? To what extent are they used? Does it vary significantly? Should one put their GPA on a resume?
I'm sure for very competitive positions (and things like grad school, obviously), grades are a pretty big deal. Otherwise, are things like the reputation of one's university and majors more important?
Again, curious. Thanks!
I'm sure for very competitive positions (and things like grad school, obviously), grades are a pretty big deal. Otherwise, are things like the reputation of one's university and majors more important?
Again, curious. Thanks!
Zeromus on
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Otherwise, grades matter less as you get older and build a job history. It gets to the point where your job history speaks for itself, and having a completed degree is basically just a box you can tick. Its not quite THAT simple, but thats it in a nutshell.
It all depends how you are looking at it. Its silly to slack off delibrately under the assumption they wont matter at all, but nor should you panic if they arent as high as you would hope.
I work for an HR company (recruitment) and I can guarantee you that we don't even bother looking at GPAs if the candidate has more than 4 years' work experience.
On the flipside, if your grades aren't fantastic but you still get the degree, what can also give you an edge is still like activities and volunteer work and part-time work/internships.
Almost DEFINITELY get an internship while at school. Not only does it open doors and give you networking opportunities, but putting something like that on your resume gives it that extra punch.
That being said, the 3rd and 4th years are way more heavily weighted than your 1st and 2nd year marks.
Good stuff, folks.
Take my husband for example... graduated in 2006, 2.75 GPA, Civil Engineering major - he had 12 job offers with very good starting salaries right out of college. No experience, no internship, etc.
And then there's me... graduated in 2005, 2.75 GPA, Finance major - zero serious job offers relating to my major.
I did, however, get a job that required that I have a degree, they just didn't care what it was in or what my GPA was. This job has absolutely nothing to do with my major; they just wanted to see that you were able to make it through 4+ years of something without quitting.
The Best in Terms of Pants on JCCC3
From the perspective of someone who writes code for a living, grades matter a lot more than most people (even employed programmers) seem to think. We all know that all other things being equal the person with the better grades gets the job, but "things" are equal a hell of a lot when sifting through resumes. The first test you have to pass when applying for a job in, for example, the game industry is the HR test. Even senior recruiters will look deeper into the application of somebody with a 3.5+ than an application with no GPA or a < 3.0 GPA (and if your GPA's less than a 3.0 it really shouldn't be on your resume in the first place).
Nobody looks at your code samples until after you get through HR (if they look at all), and the most reliable way to get through HR is to get good grades.
Once you've got a few years in your chosen industry under your belt they matter a lot less, but getting that first job is painful if your grades are bad.
What is a good GPA?
And how much of a difference can a few tenths of a point make, really? Because this would alleviate a lot of my stressing over grades...
EDIT: What about one of those crazy competitive things like consulting, for example?
In today's economy, a Bain or McKinsey-style consulting job will be tough, especially because part of the population that would have been going to i-banking will be fighting over these jobs now that i-banking has imploded. A good GPA is essential to get you in the door, but is lower than you'd think (i'd say a 3.3 or so, with a demonstrated ability in quantitative skills...less if you were a gifted math/physics student who had good grades in humanities courses.) Top consulting and business firms tend to screen people based on raw intellectual ability based on what undergrad they attended, rather than major or GPA - so you can go work for goldman sachs if you were a good humanities major at harvard, but not if you were an excellent economics major at bumfuck state college, minnesota.
Consulting firms are much more about evaluating the candidate in person for two things.
First, to evaluate their personal skills. Whether the candidate can maintain eye contact, is enough of a douchebag (*cough*) er, displays leadership skills, and is articulate.
Secondly, if the candidate retains these social skills while solving a hypothetical problem. The point is to demonstrate your reasoning ability rather than get at a right answer - if you've looked seriously at a consulting job i'm sure you've seen these sorts of questions and example answers, e.g. "How many gas stations are there in the United States?" And then you go on to state your assumptions and extrapolate an answer from that.
Also a few tenths of a point could be the difference between graduating summa and magna cum laude.
Not true if you're fresh out of college with zero experience.
Or if you decide to change jobs less than five years out of college.
Technical jobs (science/engineering) tend to be very interested in college grades, but good work/internship/volunteering experience can offset a lower GPA.
And if it's a highly competitive field odds are most candidates will have an internship and a good GPA.
Consulting jobs are a crap-shoot. Don't even bother applying to Bain, BCG, or McKinzie unless you go to a school where they actually go to recruit. 3.9 GPA at a top 3 liberal arts school, 780 GMAT, 1500 SAT? Multiple varsity sports, community service, and amazing internships? That's nice, but they prefer somebody with a 3.3 from a feeder school. (Yes, I'm a little bitter, but it's true, and I recommend not even wasting your time with them.)
As far as the smaller consulting firms, or else something big but not as prestigious, like Accenture, grades definitely do matter, but once you get the first interview they won't be nearly as important as how you perform face-to-face. I agree with everything kaliyama said about that. Grades are an indicator of your problem solving abilities, but if you have a 3.5 and smoke your interview, you'll get the job over somebody with a 4.0 who is socially awkward and can't think on his feet.
even if you are just working out of college, grades are still important. I.e. engineering positions are given based partly on academic performance.