2) The flags, they do nothing. On the 360 version, I think there are some achievement points or something, but like most things in GTA IV, the devs decided to provide no reward whatsoever for this collection minigame. This is a GOOD thing, since trying to collect every flag could do lasting psychological damage. Note, however, that this shouldn't prevent you from exploring the world: there are huge, fascinating areas of the main map that you'll never encounter playing through the story.
I've used four different maps and I can still only find 19 out of 20 flags in Masayaf arrrrrrrgh
Considering the possibility of actually having a b0rked save.
You guys are faulting Bioshock for things Assassin's Creed never even attempted to pursue.
Are you defending Assassin's Creed, or are you just attacking Bioshock?
Well, when the game's fame is based solely around excellent story-telling and it doesn't, at least in my opinion, tell anything close to an excellent story, it isn't that good a game. And the thread was "which should I buy, AC or BS." I think AC is a more fun game, because the core gameplay is far superior to BS, and the story, which was the main draw in Bioshock, completely underdelivers.
I see. You actually think that giving players a choice detracted from the story? Without it, you would just move through the game with a set amount of Adam, there would be one ending, your relationship with Tenenbaum could play out one way, a large portion of the dialogue in the game would be scrapped, and it would make the game a much more linear experience.
Please explain how that would make the story better.
Of course I exaggerate. The truth is, I loved this game for about the first 3 hours. The rest of the time I spent hating it, wondering why it was a 3 hours game spread out to fucking 20 hours for no goddamn reason. Yes, I did beat the game. The ending was a cliffhanger, and not a very good one. The graphics were beautiful, however I ran in to several bugs that helped cement my opinion that the game is absolute shit.
And I hate on it far more than some random shitty game. It was a game with promise and potential, and the devs fucked it up so much that it deserved to be ridiculed and laughed at. It's like if you had a sibling or child or something, that started life off great, was super smart, had such a promising career. Then this person took a nose dive, blew everyone off, started doing hard drugs, and getting in trouble with the law. Then they ended up a retarded bum in some alleyway. How the fuck can you appreciate someone like that who had it all and threw it away? That's what this game is, potential that is never met, in the worst way possible.
Want to know the way to enjoy this game? Play it for up to and DEFINITELY not over 3 hours. That's it, and only if you are determined to play. If you're on the fence, go do something else with your time.
Honestly, I know some people that will play a game and work to love it.
I've only seen two people in my time actively work to hate a game as much as possible, like you did.
I mean you put real effort in there, I have to applaud you for it.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Well, when the game's fame is based solely around excellent story-telling and it doesn't, at least in my opinion, tell anything close to an excellent story, it isn't that good a game. And the thread was "which should I buy, AC or BS." I think AC is a more fun game, because the core gameplay is far superior to BS, and the story, which was the main draw in Bioshock, completely underdelivers.
I think a lot of people, myself included, think the gameplay in AC is boring, and the story is almost irrelevant. In addition, to say the story of Bioshock "completely underdelivers" just sounds like you've taken a radical stance for the sake of your argument.
I bought this game a few weeks back, and for 20 bucks it's probably well worth it. However, it is FAR from perfect - the core gameplay does not evolve at all for the entirety of the game (the upgrades ARE A LIE and mostly useless after you're about three assassinations in).
I haven't beat the game yet, but I do like just putzing around, climbing things and getting in fights with guards. I love walking casually up to ten of them walking in formation and KABLAM knife in the throat, and then methodically cutting down the rest in a big cinematic fight.
However, and maybe it's just me or maybe it's the intention of the game, but I've found very little way to actually kill your assassination targets unnoticed, let alone get suitably near them. Still, it's fun to creep around the rafters of a medieval hospital and pretend like you're about to do something ninja-like.
What do you mean by upgrades were a lie?
-When your weapons upgraded they did more damage
-big belt thingy lets you tackle people while you run.
-Gloves let you reach and grab a ledge while falling
I see. You actually think that giving players a choice detracted from the story? Without it, you would just move through the game with a set amount of Adam, there would be one ending, your relationship with Tenenbaum could play out one way, a large portion of the dialogue in the game would be scrapped, and it would make the game a much more linear experience.
Please explain how that would make the story better.
Giving players an artificial, irrelevant choice is an insult to intellectual thought. How about that? It was a stupid way to hammer in the idea of "moral choices", but it was half-assed and corny.
Leaving it out would have been better than the slap to the face that it was to "give us choice"
The only fact here is that you view it one way, and that other people felt it was more meaningful.
I'm curious as to why you guys enjoyed AC so much. I bought it, I enjoyed it for a while, and now I haven't played it since that first week. What is it about the game that makes it better than average?
Well, when the game's fame is based solely around excellent story-telling and it doesn't, at least in my opinion, tell anything close to an excellent story, it isn't that good a game. And the thread was "which should I buy, AC or BS." I think AC is a more fun game, because the core gameplay is far superior to BS, and the story, which was the main draw in Bioshock, completely underdelivers.
I think a lot of people, myself included, think the gameplay in AC is boring, and the story is almost irrelevant. In addition, to say the story of Bioshock "completely underdelivers" just sounds like you've taken a radical stance for the sake of your argument.
It did underdeliver, especially considering the reviews/GOTY awards it received.
Very minor spoilers, but I'm not risking ruining anything. I'm not an ass.
The story falls completely apart at the 60% mark. Nothing after the twist is good. The endings are terrible. The gunplay is unsatisfying, enemy AI is unremarkable, the escort and final boss were beyond stupid, and there are way way way way too many fetch quests that pad the game out an extra 5-10 unnecessary hours. Dull hours. And again, the moral choice was awful. In a game that is trying to rise above the typical video game story, having a simple black/white asshole/saint choice is unnacceptable (especially when you consider what happens in the story after the twist).
Well, when the game's fame is based solely around excellent story-telling and it doesn't, at least in my opinion, tell anything close to an excellent story, it isn't that good a game. And the thread was "which should I buy, AC or BS." I think AC is a more fun game, because the core gameplay is far superior to BS, and the story, which was the main draw in Bioshock, completely underdelivers.
I think a lot of people, myself included, think the gameplay in AC is boring, and the story is almost irrelevant. In addition, to say the story of Bioshock "completely underdelivers" just sounds like you've taken a radical stance for the sake of your argument.
The gameplay of Bioshock seems interesting because it has fear and anxiety wrapped around it. This will always make something appear more interesting than it is since it lends emotional height to any experience and generates "moments".
There's absolutely no fear in AC, you are the badass badass who ever stalked through the streets. I sat down one day and tried to actively use the environment and vigilantes to kill as many guards as possible without resting. I killed at least 50 guards before fucking up and trying to take them with just the stealth knife, which I wasn't good at using at that point.
Some people find this boring, some people like this as it makes it easy to roleplay.
By no means, though, are you making an objective comparison about the gameplay between the two, I'd say this would be almost impossible to do considering the differences in atmosphere and environment without specifically writing down all of the gameplay points on a piece of paper and putting them next to each other.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Are you telling me a metacritic rating of 96 is just plain wrong?
Are you telling me that disagreeing with a metacritic rating of 96 is just plain wrong?
Way to avoid the question.
I'm saying that the critics play more games than you or I. If the story was such a failure, as you imply, why would it be hailed so much for it's story?
I payed about $17 for it and played it for the first time today. I only have praise for it, except for the whole 'future genetic memory' thing and the futuristic HUD/DNA cutscene thing.
Are you telling me a metacritic rating of 96 is just plain wrong?
Are you telling me that disagreeing with a metacritic rating of 96 is just plain wrong?
Way to avoid the question.
I'm saying that the critics play more games than you or I. If the story was such a failure, as you imply, why would it be hailed to much for it's story?
Do I really need to go over my points again? I thought it was pretty bad, excluding a nice little twist (which was damned clever, I won't deny that). Just because reviewers loved it doesn't mean everyone has to. My whole point in this thread is that if you ignore stories (because both are mediocre with bad endings), AC has better gameplay than Bioshock in my opinion. Thus, it is a better purchase.
And in my humble opinion, the engaging story, fantastic atmosphere, and great gameplay of Bioshock are what makes it a better game.
But if someone doesn't like FPS games, Bioshock will certainly not change their opinion.
Errrr, I said "in my opinion" in a bunch of my posts.
In your little spoiler above you only used generalised language, which is what he was reacting to.
Now, you did say the story was bad in your opinion in an earlier post, but heres a protip.
Unless you specifically say "Everything I'm about to say is only my opinion", mentioning "X aspect of a game" is your opinion and then damning other aspects of it in generalised language doesn't automatically get covered.
Logic is like maths you have to show all your working.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
And in my humble opinion, the engaging story, fantastic atmosphere, and great gameplay of Bioshock are what makes it a better game.
But if someone doesn't like FPS games, Bioshock will certainly not change their opinion.
Errrr, I said "in my opinion" in a bunch of my posts.
In your little spoiler above you only used generalised language, which is what he was reacting to.
Now, you did say the story was bad in your opinion in an earlier post, but heres a protip.
Unless you specifically say "Everything I'm about to say is only my opinion", mentioning "X aspect of a game" is your opinion and then damning other aspects of it in generalised language doesn't automatically get covered.
Logic is like maths you have to show all your working.
Or you could, y'know, just make the very easy assumption that everything I post is an opinion. Since it is. Or you could use the fact that since I said "in my opinion" in several other posts, perhaps everything I say in the thread is "in my opinion."
And since we already know what the majority of the gaming public thinks about Bioshock (hence the 96 on metacritic, something I'll never understand), is the lack of three words in a post really that big of a deal?
Also, be less of a cockbag please. You don't have to take shots at me just because you think my opinion is a little bit too extreme. Bioshock is the most disappointing game I've played in a long time (moreso even than Fable).
Also, be less of a cockbag please. You don't have to take shots at me just because you think my opinion is a little bit too extreme. Bioshock is the most disappointing game I've played in a long time (moreso even than Fable).
Hey guys, I think this thread is about Assassin's Creed.
It's a pretty fun game to me, the combat is actually pretty fun in that it lets you do cool counter-attacks that are pretty brutal, but you really don't have any control over which one he does, just have to get the timing down.
Also, be less of a cockbag please. You don't have to take shots at me just because you think my opinion is a little bit too extreme. Bioshock is the most disappointing game I've played in a long time (moreso even than Fable).
And in my humble opinion, the engaging story, fantastic atmosphere, and great gameplay of Bioshock are what makes it a better game.
But if someone doesn't like FPS games, Bioshock will certainly not change their opinion.
Errrr, I said "in my opinion" in a bunch of my posts.
In your little spoiler above you only used generalised language, which is what he was reacting to.
Now, you did say the story was bad in your opinion in an earlier post, but heres a protip.
Unless you specifically say "Everything I'm about to say is only my opinion", mentioning "X aspect of a game" is your opinion and then damning other aspects of it in generalised language doesn't automatically get covered.
Logic is like maths you have to show all your working.
Or you could, y'know, just make the very easy assumption that everything I post is an opinion. Since it is. Or you could use the fact that since I said "in my opinion" in several other posts, perhaps everything I say in the thread is "in my opinion."
And since we already know what the majority of the gaming public thinks about Bioshock (hence the 96 on metacritic, something I'll never understand), is the lack of three words in a post really that big of a deal?
Also, be less of a cockbag please. You don't have to take shots at me just because you think my opinion is a little bit too extreme. Bioshock is the most disappointing game I've played in a long time (moreso even than Fable).
Logic is like maths you have to show all your working. I'm just going to repeat this since you plainly didn't get it.
Assuming knowledge in your reader is a really stupid thing to do. It amazes me you don't know this.
I'm not taking shots at your opinions. Presented as opinions, they're fine. You don't present them as opinions though, you present them as melodramatic statements and demand everybody else interpret them because you are too lazy to do so. After I told two face this he stopped being so aggro to you.
I had to interpret your lazy ass for someone else to stop arguing pointlessly with you.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Sooo what have we learned here? Some people don't like games, despite others liking them. It's really quite shocking, I know. But what we may not have already known is that some people 's views are so completely radical that nobody takes them seriously, even those on the same side originally.
Logic is like maths you have to show all your working. I'm just going to repeat this since you plainly didn't get it.
Assuming knowledge in your reader is a really stupid thing to do. It amazes me you don't know this.
I'm not taking shots at your opinions. Presented as opinions, they're fine. You don't present them as opinions though, you present them as melodramatic statements and demand everybody else interpret them because you are too lazy to do so. After I told two face this he stopped being so aggro to you.
I had to interpret your lazy ass for someone else to stop arguing pointlessly with you.
Okay, I forgot to write three words in a post on an online message board. Is it really such a big stretch to assume I might be making subjective comments when I am discussing something that cannot be objectively measured (in this case, the amount of fun had playing a particular video game).
So this is stupid. Know what isn't stupid? Assassin's Creed. Fun game. You stab people in the neck with a blade hidden in your sleeve. Wish you could be more stealthy, but there's always the sequel!
Morninglord:...No. Anything you ever write is and only can be your opinion, your interpretation. The vast majority of forum disagreements are sparked by all involved forgetting that the reason you don't write "I" in an essay, is because anything you're writing is your opinion anyway; I only leads to "I think" and similar statements, and are unnecessary.
Anyway, AC is really fun if you don't try and finish it in a sitting, and are okay with the main missions having pretty much no choice for the player.
Morninglord:...No. Anything you ever write is and only can be your opinion, your interpretation. The vast majority of forum disagreements are sparked by all involved forgetting that the reason you don't write "I" in an essay, is because anything you're writing is your opinion anyway; I only leads to "I think" and similar statements, and are unnecessary.
Mmm, I tend to disagree. After all, you did just draw a comparison between a formal essay and internet video game forums. Additionally, in an essay you would not pose ideas as facts, IE "the world is flat."
Morninglord:...No. Anything you ever write is and only can be your opinion, your interpretation. The vast majority of forum disagreements are sparked by all involved forgetting that the reason you don't write "I" in an essay, is because anything you're writing is your opinion anyway; I only leads to "I think" and similar statements, and are unnecessary.
Mmm, I tend to disagree. After all, you did just draw a comparison between a formal essay and internet video game forums. Additionally, in an essay you would not pose ideas as facts, IE "the world is flat."
On the other hand, I no longer give a darn.
Yeah, I think the internet logic argument should die. It never goes anywhere other than stupid.
Morninglord:...No. Anything you ever write is and only can be your opinion, your interpretation. The vast majority of forum disagreements are sparked by all involved forgetting that the reason you don't write "I" in an essay, is because anything you're writing is your opinion anyway; I only leads to "I think" and similar statements, and are unnecessary.
Mmm, I tend to disagree. After all, you did just draw a comparison between a formal essay and internet video game forums. Additionally, in an essay you would not pose ideas as facts, IE "the world is flat."
On the other hand, I no longer give a darn.
I don't use I for informal essays either, unless I need to :P
But I really don't think in my opinion is a necessary addendum; exactly what else might it be, exactly?
Posts
Are you defending Assassin's Creed, or are you just attacking Bioshock?
Twitter 3DS: 0860 - 3257 - 2516
In my opinion it is better that Assassin's Creed didn't attempted to have a meaningless choice as in Bioshock it just detracted from the story.
I never asked for this!
I've used four different maps and I can still only find 19 out of 20 flags in Masayaf arrrrrrrgh
Considering the possibility of actually having a b0rked save.
Well, when the game's fame is based solely around excellent story-telling and it doesn't, at least in my opinion, tell anything close to an excellent story, it isn't that good a game. And the thread was "which should I buy, AC or BS." I think AC is a more fun game, because the core gameplay is far superior to BS, and the story, which was the main draw in Bioshock, completely underdelivers.
Please explain how that would make the story better.
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Honestly, I know some people that will play a game and work to love it.
I've only seen two people in my time actively work to hate a game as much as possible, like you did.
I mean you put real effort in there, I have to applaud you for it.
Assassin's creed was amazing, I played it twice within a week. After that, though... never picked it up again.
I think a lot of people, myself included, think the gameplay in AC is boring, and the story is almost irrelevant. In addition, to say the story of Bioshock "completely underdelivers" just sounds like you've taken a radical stance for the sake of your argument.
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What do you mean by upgrades were a lie?
-When your weapons upgraded they did more damage
-big belt thingy lets you tackle people while you run.
-Gloves let you reach and grab a ledge while falling
There wasn't any upgrade that didn't do anything.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
Giving players an artificial, irrelevant choice is an insult to intellectual thought. How about that? It was a stupid way to hammer in the idea of "moral choices", but it was half-assed and corny.
Leaving it out would have been better than the slap to the face that it was to "give us choice"
The only fact here is that you view it one way, and that other people felt it was more meaningful.
I'm curious as to why you guys enjoyed AC so much. I bought it, I enjoyed it for a while, and now I haven't played it since that first week. What is it about the game that makes it better than average?
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It did underdeliver, especially considering the reviews/GOTY awards it received.
Very minor spoilers, but I'm not risking ruining anything. I'm not an ass.
The gameplay of Bioshock seems interesting because it has fear and anxiety wrapped around it. This will always make something appear more interesting than it is since it lends emotional height to any experience and generates "moments".
There's absolutely no fear in AC, you are the badass badass who ever stalked through the streets. I sat down one day and tried to actively use the environment and vigilantes to kill as many guards as possible without resting. I killed at least 50 guards before fucking up and trying to take them with just the stealth knife, which I wasn't good at using at that point.
Some people find this boring, some people like this as it makes it easy to roleplay.
By no means, though, are you making an objective comparison about the gameplay between the two, I'd say this would be almost impossible to do considering the differences in atmosphere and environment without specifically writing down all of the gameplay points on a piece of paper and putting them next to each other.
"terrible, awful, unacceptable"
Are you telling me a metacritic rating of 96 is just plain wrong?
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Are you telling me that disagreeing with a metacritic rating of 96 is just plain wrong?
Evangir loves his melodrama, you should mentally downgrade most of his radical statements for your own sanity since he'll never change them.
I never asked for this!
Way to avoid the question.
I'm saying that the critics play more games than you or I. If the story was such a failure, as you imply, why would it be hailed so much for it's story?
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I think I'm beginning to understand.
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Do I really need to go over my points again? I thought it was pretty bad, excluding a nice little twist (which was damned clever, I won't deny that). Just because reviewers loved it doesn't mean everyone has to. My whole point in this thread is that if you ignore stories (because both are mediocre with bad endings), AC has better gameplay than Bioshock in my opinion. Thus, it is a better purchase.
And in my humble opinion, the engaging story, fantastic atmosphere, and great gameplay of Bioshock are what makes it a better game.
But if someone doesn't like FPS games, Bioshock will certainly not change their opinion.
Twitter 3DS: 0860 - 3257 - 2516
Errrr, I said "in my opinion" in a bunch of my posts.
In your little spoiler above you only used generalised language, which is what he was reacting to.
Now, you did say the story was bad in your opinion in an earlier post, but heres a protip.
Unless you specifically say "Everything I'm about to say is only my opinion", mentioning "X aspect of a game" is your opinion and then damning other aspects of it in generalised language doesn't automatically get covered.
Logic is like maths you have to show all your working.
Or you could, y'know, just make the very easy assumption that everything I post is an opinion. Since it is. Or you could use the fact that since I said "in my opinion" in several other posts, perhaps everything I say in the thread is "in my opinion."
And since we already know what the majority of the gaming public thinks about Bioshock (hence the 96 on metacritic, something I'll never understand), is the lack of three words in a post really that big of a deal?
Also, be less of a cockbag please. You don't have to take shots at me just because you think my opinion is a little bit too extreme. Bioshock is the most disappointing game I've played in a long time (moreso even than Fable).
Haha.
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It's a pretty fun game to me, the combat is actually pretty fun in that it lets you do cool counter-attacks that are pretty brutal, but you really don't have any control over which one he does, just have to get the timing down.
Also, running around is fun.
GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)
Damn.
But more importantly, Gamefly sent me the wrong game again. Fuuuck they're incompetent.
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Logic is like maths you have to show all your working. I'm just going to repeat this since you plainly didn't get it.
Assuming knowledge in your reader is a really stupid thing to do. It amazes me you don't know this.
I'm not taking shots at your opinions. Presented as opinions, they're fine. You don't present them as opinions though, you present them as melodramatic statements and demand everybody else interpret them because you are too lazy to do so. After I told two face this he stopped being so aggro to you.
I had to interpret your lazy ass for someone else to stop arguing pointlessly with you.
I never asked for this!
And so it starts again!
Twitter 3DS: 0860 - 3257 - 2516
I never asked for this!
Sooo what have we learned here? Some people don't like games, despite others liking them. It's really quite shocking, I know. But what we may not have already known is that some people 's views are so completely radical that nobody takes them seriously, even those on the same side originally.
Twitter 3DS: 0860 - 3257 - 2516
Okay, I forgot to write three words in a post on an online message board. Is it really such a big stretch to assume I might be making subjective comments when I am discussing something that cannot be objectively measured (in this case, the amount of fun had playing a particular video game).
So this is stupid. Know what isn't stupid? Assassin's Creed. Fun game. You stab people in the neck with a blade hidden in your sleeve. Wish you could be more stealthy, but there's always the sequel!
Anyway, AC is really fun if you don't try and finish it in a sitting, and are okay with the main missions having pretty much no choice for the player.
Mmm, I tend to disagree. After all, you did just draw a comparison between a formal essay and internet video game forums. Additionally, in an essay you would not pose ideas as facts, IE "the world is flat."
On the other hand, I no longer give a darn.
Twitter 3DS: 0860 - 3257 - 2516
Yeah, I think the internet logic argument should die. It never goes anywhere other than stupid.
I don't use I for informal essays either, unless I need to :P
But I really don't think in my opinion is a necessary addendum; exactly what else might it be, exactly?