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The UK Communications Data Bill - XBL and Every website you visit will be logged.

Lave IILave II Registered User regular
edited October 2008 in Games and Technology
DO SOMETHING!

OK, I'm going to try and cash in all my long time poster karma (despite not posting that much recently) to kick off about this one, and try and convince you all to do something about the most Orwellian step a democratic country has ever made. I've put it in G&T because it's about the Government of the UK monitoring you through your Mobile Phone, your Internet Use, your Social Network use and your use of Xbox Live and other gaming networks.

Short version:
The bill announced yesterday will mean that:
  • The Government will record the times, dates, duration and locations of mobile phone calls and the numbers called (previously they had to go get those details when required off the company concerned). This means they will triangulate your location everytime you use your phone to contact a cell tower.
  • The Government will record every website you visit and every address you email. Previously they had to go get those details when justified off the company concerned.
The Gov having a record of every site you've ever visited is ridiculously open to abuse, exploitation and blackmail - if I need to explain to you why, then you've not used the internet for more than about an hour. Also considering the amount of dataleaks we've had imagine if your viewing habits were made public.
  • Will be kept for two years. To begin with remember.
  • As currently planned it won't keep the content of your emails, texts or chats. (Obviously, once the database exists that is mearly baby steps away, and if they know the html address of where you are visiting the content your upload is easily obtained.)
  • Security and intelligence agencies, and other public bodies, will be allowed access personal data using a wide range of internet sites, including social and gaming networks
Basically they want access to your facebook, that way they can know all your friends - so much so that a Whitehall security official source said
"People have many accounts and sign up as Mickey Mouse and no one knows who they are ... We have to do something."
Seems anonimity on the web shouldn't be allowed anymore.

Remember there is also a seperate database (coming online this january) to record 50,000,000 car number plates a day. Cameras will pinpoint the precise time and location of all vehicles on the road. Initially senior officers promised the data would be kept for two years. But after a Freedom of Information Act request the Home Office has admitted the data is now being kept for five years. This is not the actions of a free country.

So what can we do?
You can complain with WriteToThem in about 5 mins (I've nothing to do with that site obviously)
  • Click this link to go to WriteToThem
  • Enter your postcode. Don't worry mysociety.org who run the site are lovely, safe and non-evil.
  • It will find your Councilors, MP, MEP and so on. Click on the name of your MP.
  • Add your name and address (be truthful, fake addresses will get the email junked)
  • Write your letter of complaint about todays announcement.
  • Check the spelling and grammar, click preview and send.
  • Confirm your address in your email account.

I've based this post on two posts I wrote on my Blog (it's in the sig). But I'm really not trying to shill. It's just fucking crazy. Ever phone call tracked. Every web session recorded. It's time to bloody kick up a fuss uk PA peeps.

Lave II on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I've not agreed with you over a few issues in the past, but this really irks me. That seems way out of line. I'll try and get a rational and coherent response together and write a complaint tonight.

    darleysam on
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    CangoFettCangoFett Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Seeing as with many things, Europe sorta beta tests laws for America, it seems, is there anything a yank can do to support the effort against this?

    CangoFett on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    I've not agreed with you over a few issues in the past, but this really irks me. That seems way out of line. I'll try and get a rational and coherent response together and write a complaint tonight.
    :^:

    Exactly darleysam, before when we've argued about stuff like this there was a line to be argued and you had a strong point. Even I thought that maybe I am over reaching on it.

    But there is no argument for this bill. A UK that records my location every time I make a call, records who I ring and for how long, who records when I drive and where I drive too, who records every time I log on and makes a list of the sites I visit (oh 2 girls 1 cup again!) and for how long. Who records who I email and when. Who will have access to my friends on facebook and my friends on XBL. And keeps it all for at least 5 years.

    Without having to even guess that I'm a terrorist?

    Fucking hell.

    Lave II on
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    urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Is there any justification to this bill? I mean, seriously... Tracking every phone number, address, and thing you do through a data network seems really fucking invasive.

    If they were under attack by some spies and trying to figure out who it was I can sorta understand (still invasive) but this just seems... Stupid.

    urahonky on
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    PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Lave II wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    I've not agreed with you over a few issues in the past, but this really irks me. That seems way out of line. I'll try and get a rational and coherent response together and write a complaint tonight.

    Exactly darleysam, before when we've argued about stuff like this there was a line to be argued and you had a strong point.

    But there is an argument for this bill. A UK that records my location every time I make a call, records who I ring and for how long, who records when I drive and where I drive too, who records every time I log on and makes a list of the sites I visit (oh 2 girls 1 cup again!) and for how. Who records who I email and when. Who will have access to my friends on facebook and my friends on XBL.

    Without having to even guess that I'm a terrorist?

    Surely you don't have a problem with all of these perfectly reasonable measures to keep you safe.

    Unless, of course, you have something to hide.

    PeregrineFalcon on
    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    On the plus side, maybe we could get Rick Astley done on terrorism charges..

    "another million views, he has to be their leader"

    I do take slight opposition to the slippery-slope argument, it's something I'm never too happy to side with, but I think even the basics of what's being proposed here are enough to get outraged about. It just seems like a complete violation of any privacy you might have.

    darleysam on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Lave II wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    I've not agreed with you over a few issues in the past, but this really irks me. That seems way out of line. I'll try and get a rational and coherent response together and write a complaint tonight.

    Exactly darleysam, before when we've argued about stuff like this there was a line to be argued and you had a strong point.

    But there is an argument for this bill. A UK that records my location every time I make a call, records who I ring and for how long, who records when I drive and where I drive too, who records every time I log on and makes a list of the sites I visit (oh 2 girls 1 cup again!) and for how. Who records who I email and when. Who will have access to my friends on facebook and my friends on XBL.

    Without having to even guess that I'm a terrorist?

    Surely you don't have a problem with all of these perfectly reasonable measures to keep you safe.

    Unless, of course, you have something to hide.

    Ha ha, :)

    But yeah, of course I've got something to hide. As do you.

    Especially if you can complete this sentence: Two girls one...

    Lave II on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    On the plus side, maybe we could get Rick Astley done on terrorism charges..

    "another million views, he has to be their leader"

    I do take slight opposition to the slippery-slope argument, it's something I'm never too happy to side with, but I think even the basics of what's being proposed here are enough to get outraged about. It just seems like a complete violation of any privacy you might have.

    Exactly, it doesn't matter what anyone's views on the other stuff is. This bill alone warrants the attention.

    Lave II on
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    thejazzmanthejazzman Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Message sent, although my town is Lib Dem, so he's probably against it anyway.

    thejazzman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Lave II wrote: »
    Ha ha, :)

    But yeah, of course I've got something to hide. As do you.

    Especially if you can complete this sentence: Two girls one...

    Guy?

    I don't know how you roll, but that's how I get down. :winky:
    yes I know exactly what you're referring to, and as a hybrid of America and the EU, Canadians should be watching this with great intent especially since Harper's still sitting at the head of the table.
    watching this bill, not 2g1c, although I would like to see Harper eating from said cup
    not really see it, mind you, just knowing that he did it is enough

    PeregrineFalcon on
    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
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    AmpixAmpix Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Wow this is truly horrible. A couple months ago there was discussion of a bill similar to this in Dutch parliament, but I remember it being absolutely destroyed (except for something on phone tracking, but nowhere near as invasive as this). I guess the UK thought that now in the middle of the crisis clean-up it would be a good time to squeeze this through.

    Ampix on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, there's barely even any slope left to slide down here. This is just flat out unacceptable. I mean Jesus, it's not even just them watching me that pisses me off. My wife, my child once she starts using communications technology - they're going to watch and record every single thing that they do?

    No, just no. Get the fuck out of my family's private life. Jesus, what the fuck is wrong with our government that they think this is even remotely acceptable?

    Edit: Also, why is it that every home secretary we have seems to be more evil than the last? Here's a good law "If someone shows interest in the role of Home Secretary, burn them for they are surely a witch".

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    arod_77arod_77 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    Jesus Christ. If this happened in America I would go totally off grid

    arod_77 on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Seeing as with many things, Europe sorta beta tests laws for America, it seems, is there anything a yank can do to support the effort against this?

    Seems like this is a huge extension on the Patriot Act, actually.

    Good luck, Lave. If there's something us "butchers of the English language" can do to help, think of it and let us know.
    You know I kid.

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Hey, guess whose MP is David Cameron?

    This guy.

    :|

    darleysam on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    There is no way this would be passed anyways. I think your outrage is well placed but ultimately redundant. The House is never going to pass this right after they denied the 40 day terror bill. It might be tweaked and changed a little but in no way will the bill as it stands ever come into law, even in an encroaching society of surveillance. Not with an election on the horizon. History shows that such a bill would not be fasttracked in any way into law and we have less than a year till the next general election. No-one but the most staunch left wingers is going to support this thing, so all the opposition have to do is say no and it just does not get passed.

    Like Id cards, the without charge arrests and most of the recent financial aid bills this is political posturing by a government on the ropes. It is no secret everyone hates Brown, all Cameron has to do is say 'we won't do this' and whammo the bill gets denied and he goes up in the polls by about 10 points.

    Not that I have much faith in the commons or the lords but let's be reasonable here, what they are proposing is so extreme that even without outspoken support against it the thing would never get past a green paper let alone vetted by the Lords.

    Every month there is a new bill being considered that we have to get motivated to oppose, and every time it gets shut down because the government keeps forgetting that we live in a democracy and we hate both them and their stupid laws vehemently. I mean its not like we live in America or something.

    I can see the relevance here, checking on Xbox Live or Facebook or whatever. But unless the government knowing how much Halo I play is incriminating I'm really failing to see how absurd as it is for something this ridiculous to get in anyways, how it would be much of an issue anyways. It's not like my number isnt already publicly available, as is my email, my cellphone, my address. At work my browsing is monitored, as are land line calls. The amount of spam I get to my apartment and the cold call telemarketing indicates that my privacy went out the window a long time ago when I turned 18 and moved out.

    I'm not saying we should be any less than diametrically opposed to such a bill, by its very nature it restricts freedoms and offers no benefit to the public, but I'm saying that this is just the bill of the week. Soup of the day. Remember when ID cards had a serious threat of getting passed? No? That's because there was no chance of them getting passed. Because not a single fucking person wanted one.

    the UK thought that now in the middle of the crisis clean-up it would be a good time to squeeze this through.

    This is the real issue at hand here. What better time to bury bad news than the middle of a goddamn economic crash? It's 9/11 all over again, that infamous memo. The thing is that passing a bill like this requires far too much time and vetting for it to slip under the radar. The fact that on the same day it is announced we already have a forum thread up about the many ways we can actively oppose it should show just how massively unlikely it is for this to get anywhere near being state law, let alone remembered in 5 years time.

    The media is going to jump on this in an instant and rip it apart. Trust me, I know.

    The_Scarab on
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    ben0207ben0207 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    This is truly some scary shit, and makes me have serious doubts about returning to the UK (though Germany isn't exactly paradise)

    ben0207 on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    ben0207 wrote: »
    This is truly some scary shit, and makes me have serious doubts about returning to the UK (though Germany isn't exactly paradise)

    Yeah, ask the guys at CryTek, they've got some fascinating stories!

    darleysam on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    Hey, guess whose MP is David Cameron?

    This guy.

    :|

    Doesn't matter. Email him.

    The more each party know that the public will back them up the more resistance their will be.

    Email him telling him your a life long labour supporter who faced with this outrageous proposal will be forced to vote for the tories if they fight against this bill.

    My MP is a Labour candidate, so I sent this:
    Dear WHOEVER

    I've recently become aware of the Communications Data Bill announced on Thursday. A database recording enough of our actions to trace every member of our society to an extent unprecidented in any democratic country. This is outrageous enough to warrant what is typically the hyperbole term 'Orwellian.' I fear that as most MPs are too old to have grown up with the internet they do not fully grasp the nature of their actions.

    As my representative in Parliament I wish for you to strongly oppose this plan in every way available to you.

    Please respond stating what your views of this plan are, and what actions you will take to oppose (or support) them. As, despite being a fan of yours, this is the final straw. Labours continued assaults on my civil liberties is enough for them to lose my vote in the coming election. Infact it is seriously making me consider voting Tory in the next election, despite the widespread damage it would cause, just to ensure essential civil liberties are preserved. Voting Tory was idea unthinkable until recently, but I will no longer support you if you support this plan.

    Yours sincerely,
    YOUR NAME

    Doesn't matter what you would actually vote (I vote Lib) it's about making the case as strongly as possible that this losing htem their voter base.

    I've put a guide and example letters on my site. It's all public domain so feel free to mirror it and copy it and improve it and forward it.

    We really need to spread the word as far as we can to complain about this.

    Lave II on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Oh great, my MP Voted strongly for introducing ID cards, Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws and Voted strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.

    What a cunt.

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Written.

    I don't believe it will get through Parliament, but it's pretty important this isn't allowed.
    would like to be concise. The proposed UK Communications Data Bill
    Act is deeply, deeply troubling to me. I am a liberal myself with
    centrist tendancies, and I can see the merit of being able to obtain
    this sort of information. I have no problem with public security
    cameras, for example.

    But recording and logging all data as a matter of course? I fail to see
    how that is not of massive concern to privacy, especially with the
    government's recent track record of data security. Even though much of
    the data is ostensibly harmless to record, I believe it's a fundamental
    infringement on our human rights to privacy.

    I also believe that this bill is likely garnering most support from
    those ignorant of the nature of technology, especially the internet.
    This sort of quote:
    "People have many accounts and sign up as Mickey Mouse and no one knows
    who they are ... We have to do something."
    is so fundamentally wrong-headed and obviously naive of the nature of
    its context that to detail the counterarguments would easily double the
    length of this email, and I'm sure would be an insult to your
    intelligence. Said quote does not even account for I.P address
    identification. It's absurdly - dangerously - knee-jerk and ignorant.

    The Conservatives may not be my political party of choice, but the
    panopticon direction Labour is currently taking is, well, scary. I
    trust you to do best by your constituents and your country in
    vigilantly opposing this breach of civil liberty.

    Flippy_D on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Lave that is a delicious letter there. I might just copy/paste it exactly.

    My MP is also Labour.

    (would have helped your cause if unprecedented was correct :D)

    The_Scarab on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    So should I blast off emails to my MP, MSPs, MEPs and the House Of Lords just to be sure?

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    There is no way this would be passed anyways. I think your outrage is well placed but ultimately redundant. The House is never going to pass this right after they denied the 40 day terror bill. It might be tweaked and changed a little but in no way will the bill as it stands ever come into law, even in an encroaching society of surveillance. Not with an election on the horizon. History shows that such a bill would not be fasttracked in any way into law and we have less than a year till the next general election. No-one but the most staunch left wingers is going to support this thing, so all the opposition have to do is say no and it just does not get passed.

    Like Id cards, the without charge arrests and most of the recent financial aid bills this is political posturing by a government on the ropes. It is no secret everyone hates Brown, all Cameron has to do is say 'we won't do this' and whammo the bill gets denied and he goes up in the polls by about 10 points.

    Not that I have much faith in the commons or the lords but let's be reasonable here, what they are proposing is so extreme that even without outspoken support against it the thing would never get past a green paper let alone vetted by the Lords.

    Every month there is a new bill being considered that we have to get motivated to oppose, and every time it gets shut down because the government keeps forgetting that we live in a democracy and we hate both them and their stupid laws vehemently. I mean its not like we live in America or something.

    I can see the relevance here, checking on Xbox Live or Facebook or whatever. But unless the government knowing how much Halo I play is incriminating I'm really failing to see how absurd as it is for something this ridiculous to get in anyways, how it would be much of an issue anyways. It's not like my number isnt already publicly available, as is my email, my cellphone, my address. At work my browsing is monitored, as are land line calls. The amount of spam I get to my apartment and the cold call telemarketing indicates that my privacy went out the window a long time ago when I turned 18 and moved out.

    I'm not saying we should be any less than diametrically opposed to such a bill, by its very nature it restricts freedoms and offers no benefit to the public, but I'm saying that this is just the bill of the week. Soup of the day. Remember when ID cards had a serious threat of getting passed? No? That's because there was no chance of them getting passed. Because not a single fucking person wanted one.

    the UK thought that now in the middle of the crisis clean-up it would be a good time to squeeze this through.

    This is the real issue at hand here. What better time to bury bad news than the middle of a goddamn economic crash? It's 9/11 all over again, that infamous memo. The thing is that passing a bill like this requires far too much time and vetting for it to slip under the radar. The fact that on the same day it is announced we already have a forum thread up about the many ways we can actively oppose it should show just how massively unlikely it is for this to get anywhere near being state law, let alone remembered in 5 years time.

    The media is going to jump on this in an instant and rip it apart. Trust me, I know.

    I get you and agree to a point.

    Regardless you are left with a few choices:

    Do nothing and assume that other people will stop it passing.
    OR
    Spend ten minutes complaining and help stop it passing.
    OR
    Do more.

    I can understand just spending ten minutes on it. But in the time you wrote that post you could have complained yourself.

    If you do nothing and assuming someone else will stop it, sure the risk might be small, but:

    1) It assumes the Lords understand the internet
    and
    2) The cost of being wrong is too high.

    Lave II on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Lave that is a delicious letter there. I might just copy/paste it exactly.

    My MP is also Labour.

    Please do! But best to change it a little. It's the one I put up on my site and if you send an exact copy it might bounce as being duplicate spam. Better than nothing though.
    (would have helped your cause if unprecedented was correct )

    Bugger! thanks! I've been doing all this whilst during a really busy day.

    If anyone can improve anything I've done - please do!

    Lave II on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, I see no harm at all in taking five minutes to make some noise.

    I largely agree with Scarab that it probably wont happen but I'd feel pretty retarded if it did and I hadn't done even the bare minimum to prevent it.

    The ID cards had slim chance of success because the average geezer could easily grasp the idea that he'd have to pay for an ID card and thus wondered why the hell he should pay money for something he hasn't needed so far. Internet stalking isn't something we have to buy individually, it's just something the government can choose to start doing and most people won't notice it affecting them.

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Oh dont get me wrong, I sent my letter it took no time at all. I'm just saying, you should not have a worried tone. No way in holy hell will it get passed. Let's just go through the motions and oppose it and go back to our daily lives. It's not like we aren't used to this sort of thing by now. I mean... Labour.


    Dear Tony McNulty,

    You will be aware of the recently unveiled UK Communications Data Bill, announced Thursday. Please understand that as my representative to the parliament I urge you to vehemently oppose the passing of this bill as it seriously impedes upon my freedoms and civil liberties as a citizen of the United Kingdom.

    I will not stand idly by while this renegade government, which you represent, continually seeks to restrict and control my life and privacy. This will NOT stand.

    Please respond with your opinions and views on the bill, in support or opposition, so that I can make an informed decision in the next general election. Labour cannot be allowed to pass this bill, otherwise I will be compelled to vote Conservative, as will others.

    I hope you will be able to make the right decision in this matter.

    Yours sincerely,

    (Me)

    The ultimate irony being that he won a landslide vote last time and there is no way we will be a conservative seat for a long time. Still...

    The_Scarab on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, I see what you are saying, my worried tone is just a mixture of frustration and annoyance. That is an excellent letter man!

    I just don't trust most people to understand the web.

    Lave II on
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    SporkAndrewSporkAndrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Ruth Kelly wrote:
    Voted strongly for introducing ID cards.
    Voted strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws
    Voted very strongly for the Iraq war.

    Basically I have no chance of making any difference, but I've fired off a letter anyway.

    SporkAndrew on
    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited October 2008
    This shit is being pushed trough the EU as well. I'll write something later, got to rush now.

    Echo on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Oh man that's bad. Ruth Kelly. Ouch.

    My parents' MP is a proven racist. So yeah...

    what a fucked up country we live in.

    See you fools, Im off to live in Australia. YIPPE KAY AYY

    The_Scarab on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Ruth Kelly wrote:
    Voted strongly for introducing ID cards.
    Voted strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws
    Voted very strongly for the Iraq war.

    Basically I have no chance of making any difference, but I've fired off a letter anyway.

    Nigel Griffiths is basically identical (also Voted moderately for equal gay rights which I figure basically means he couldn't come right out and vote against it but he still hates the gays). I'll take the "I won't vote for you and I'll tell my children to hate Labour for the rest of their lives and lock my wife up so she can't vote on election day" approach I guess.

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    This shit is being pushed trough the EU as well. I'll write something later, got to rush now.

    This is why I want to know if we should be pestering our MEPs as well? Will that help at all or just get me put on the terrorist watch list?

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    VulpineVulpine Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Sent:

    "The proposed Communications Bill put forward by the Home Secretary,
    Jacqui Smith, is an affront to freedom of speech. In no free society
    should one's every telephone call, e-mail, or web page browsed be
    logged by the Government; and to claim it is necessary to prevent
    terrorism is a frankly laughable excuse for such Orwellian tactics.

    I implore you to do your utmost to prevent such a bill becoming law. I
    am a strong believer in the freedoms which many Britons died to
    protect, and see a Home Secretary attempting so blatantly to undermine
    them sickens me to the core."

    My MP's Oliver Letwin, who generally enjoys voting against Labour. I dislike the Tories, but Labour aren't doing much to endear me to them...

    Vulpine on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    This shit is being pushed trough the EU as well. I'll write something later, got to rush now.

    This is why I want to know if we should be pestering our MEPs as well? Will that help at all or just get me put on the terrorist watch list?

    Don't know much about whats happening in Europe. It's best to be specifically against something. Hopefully Echo can give us some details to go on. I'll have a google when I get a chance.

    Everyone who sent an email is awesome.

    Lave II on
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    LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Done, and passed on to a bunch of other people.

    Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

    LewieP on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm going to write one but avoid mentioning Orwell or Big Brother. This shit is too serious to fall-back on over-used hyperbole.

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    Done, and passed on to a bunch of other people.

    Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

    BlogitBlogitBlogitBlogitBlogitBlogitBlogitBlogitBlogitBlogit

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    VulpineVulpine Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm going to write one but avoid mentioning Orwell or Big Brother. This shit is too serious to fall-back on over-used hyperbole.

    Gah, too late! Still, I'll remember that should I send further letters.

    Vulpine on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    SporkAndrewSporkAndrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Nigel Griffiths is basically identical (also Voted moderately for equal gay rights which I figure basically means he couldn't come right out and vote against it but he still hates the gays). I'll take the "I won't vote for you and I'll tell my children to hate Labour for the rest of their lives and lock my wife up so she can't vote on election day" approach I guess.

    I don't think I'll ever vote Labour. Since turning 18 5 years ago they haven't done a thing to endear me to them. It's times like this I miss my old MP - Michael Jack

    Voted strongly against introducing ID cards.
    Voted moderately against Labour's anti-terrorism laws.

    SporkAndrew on
    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
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