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It's not Ypres, it's [Passchendaele]

saggiosaggio Registered User regular
edited October 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
First there was the Salient.
2ndypressalientsmall.jpg

Then there was Vimy.
pic_wonder_vimy_lg.jpg

And in the end, there was the Hundred Days. But before there, there was...
Canadian_troops_on_Arras-_Cambrai_road-1918.jpg

Passchendaele!
hompageoff_01.jpg


The new film by Paul Gross about the experiences of one member of the Canadian Corps from Calgary both in Flanders and back home in Alberta.

e02103974a89aa74df6cdc02acdf.jpeg
With Paul Gross as the lead character of Sgt. Michael Dunne.

film4-1.jpg
And the incredibly hot Caroline Dhavernas as Nurse Sarah Mann.

Reviews:
National Post
Global and Mail
Toronto Star

It's out this weekend, and I just got back from seeing it myself! I enjoyed it very much, although the middle section definitely dragged. What do you guys think? Is this the start of more indigenous Canadian films? Or is this Paul Gross's swan song?

3DS: 0232-9436-6893
saggio on

Posts

  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I am going to see this, I've been waiting for a good, new WWI film.

    But until then, I don't have much to say :P

    James on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I have no fucking idea what the hell any of these references you made are aboot.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    I have no fucking idea what the hell any of these references you made are aboot.

    Neither do I, but I like maps and the first picture is a map so I keep checking back to this thread.

    Cervetus on
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    A "salient" is when you have an area that is surrounded by the enemy on three sides, typically a fortress or other feature that has put up stronger resistance. Here it refers to Ypres, and the battles fought there.

    Vimy Ridge was a German stronghold that both the British and the French failed to take (one of them failed more than once, I don't remember which), but the Canadians were successful. It was kind of an Ocean's 11 scenario; we actually duplicated the battleground and practiced.

    The Hundred Days was the last "allied" (really Entente) offensive of the war, and more specifically refers to the Battle of Amiens. Canada played a large part in the German defeat.

    These are all very important, and gave the Canadian Forces a reputation as expert fighters. That and 95% of our 600,000 something men actually volunteered to serve.

    James on
  • QliphothQliphoth Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    "I died in Hell
    (they called it Passchendaele); my wound was slight
    and I was hobbling back; and then a shell
    burst slick upon the duckboards; so I fell
    into the bottomless mud, and lost the light"


    Doesn't seem like an appropriate battle to put a typical love story around. This would probably annoy me and take away from the gravity of what may have been one of the most horrific and pointless battles of all time.

    Qliphoth on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'll be sorely disappointed if this doesn't have the Iron Maiden song in there somewhere.

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
  • ZsetrekZsetrek Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    "What are your legs? Springs, steel springs. What are they going to do? They’re going to haul me down the track. How fast can you run? Fast as a leopard. How fast are you gonna run? Fast as a leopard. Then let’s see you do it!"

    Zsetrek on
  • L*2*G*XL*2*G*X Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Qliphoth wrote: »
    "I died in Hell
    (they called it Passchendaele); my wound was slight
    and I was hobbling back; and then a shell
    burst slick upon the duckboards; so I fell
    into the bottomless mud, and lost the light"


    Doesn't seem like an appropriate battle to put a typical love story around. This would probably annoy me and take away from the gravity of what may have been one of the most horrific and pointless battles of all time.

    The great war is holy to me; all you need to know about war you can learn from that one, AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE LAST ONE.
    I don't even go to the fucking musea they built, and I live 1hr. away. It makes me too angry.

    As for the fucking goddamned Canadian volunteers; even typing this I feel like crying for those poor sods. Turning their pointless suffering into something patriotic is beyond stupid. You failed to get the point.
    No-one won that fucking war, you ignorant douchbag. (edit, that was not meant for Qliphoth, obviously he got the point.)

    L*2*G*X on
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I went to the theatre with some friends to see this.

    We saw Max Payne instead.

    I don't know what's wrong with us.

    Sceptre on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Sceptre wrote: »
    I went to the theatre with some friends to see this.

    We saw Max Payne instead.

    I don't know what's wrong with us.

    Fail.

    saggio on
    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    In a foreign field he lay
    Lonely soldier unknown grave
    On his dying words he prays
    Tell the world of Paschendale...

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Thank you

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    My great grandfather fought at Passchendaele, man, I feel connected. Anyone done the WW1 tour thing? Ypres is meant to be well worth the trip, if you like feeling sad due to years of pointless sacrifice

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    L*2*G*X wrote: »
    As for the fucking goddamned Canadian volunteers; even typing this I feel like crying for those poor sods. Turning their pointless suffering into something patriotic is beyond stupid. You failed to get the point.
    No-one won that fucking war, you ignorant douchbag. (edit, that was not meant for Qliphoth, obviously he got the point.)

    So you are suggesting that we don't remember the sacrifice they willingly made for their country?

    The war probably would have been the last one, had the United States joined the League of Nations and other things been handled differently. But that isn't the way it happened. Also, not that many Canadians actually died in the war considering the number of forces deployed, and the population of the country at the time.

    I'm not really sure who you're yelling at but I think you're misinterpreting something and getting really defensive about it. And I know you didn't fight in the war yourself, because you'd be over 100 years old, so don't try to misrepresent yourself as if you've experienced it... you're being waaaay too emotional about this.

    However this isn't the place to discuss the ethics of world war.

    James on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    James wrote: »
    L*2*G*X wrote: »
    As for the fucking goddamned Canadian volunteers; even typing this I feel like crying for those poor sods. Turning their pointless suffering into something patriotic is beyond stupid. You failed to get the point.
    No-one won that fucking war, you ignorant douchbag. (edit, that was not meant for Qliphoth, obviously he got the point.)

    So you are suggesting that we don't remember the sacrifice they willingly made for their country?

    The war probably would have been the last one, had the United States joined the League of Nations and other things been handled differently. But that isn't the way it happened. Also, not that many Canadians actually died in the war considering the number of forces deployed, and the population of the country at the time.

    I'm not really sure who you're yelling at but I think you're misinterpreting something and getting really defensive about it. And I know you didn't fight in the war yourself, because you'd be around 130 years old, so don't try to misrepresent yourself as if you've experienced it... you're being waaaay too emotional about this.

    However this isn't the place to discuss the ethics of world war.
    Yeah L*2, you need to chill down.

    James, I'm not overly familiar with the way Canadians got a whole generation down in the trenches, but over in England, Germany, Belgium and France the young men were pretty much forced into the trenches by the generation before them that had talked a sense of nationality into them for years. Add to that peer pressure and such rampant chauvinism that young men walking down the street would be yelled after to join the army and die for their country and there is your average volunteer army.

    Dulce et decorum est
    pro patria mori

    Aldo on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Oh, WWI movie.

    All you need is All Quiet on the Western Front.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Aldo wrote: »
    James wrote: »
    L*2*G*X wrote: »
    As for the fucking goddamned Canadian volunteers; even typing this I feel like crying for those poor sods. Turning their pointless suffering into something patriotic is beyond stupid. You failed to get the point.
    No-one won that fucking war, you ignorant douchbag. (edit, that was not meant for Qliphoth, obviously he got the point.)

    So you are suggesting that we don't remember the sacrifice they willingly made for their country?

    The war probably would have been the last one, had the United States joined the League of Nations and other things been handled differently. But that isn't the way it happened. Also, not that many Canadians actually died in the war considering the number of forces deployed, and the population of the country at the time.

    I'm not really sure who you're yelling at but I think you're misinterpreting something and getting really defensive about it. And I know you didn't fight in the war yourself, because you'd be around 130 years old, so don't try to misrepresent yourself as if you've experienced it... you're being waaaay too emotional about this.

    However this isn't the place to discuss the ethics of world war.
    Yeah L*2, you need to chill down.

    James, I'm not overly familiar with the way Canadians got a whole generation down in the trenches, but over in England, Germany, Belgium and France the young men were pretty much forced into the trenches by the generation before them that had talked a sense of nationality into them for years. Add to that peer pressure and such rampant chauvinism that young men walking down the street would be yelled after to join the army and die for their country and there is your average volunteer army.

    Dulce et decorum est
    pro patria mori

    Well, volunteer or not, they should still be remembered. The prevention of further disasters like the world wars is what gives their death meaning.

    James on
  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Kalkino wrote: »
    My great grandfather fought at Passchendaele, man, I feel connected. Anyone done the WW1 tour thing? Ypres is meant to be well worth the trip, if you like feeling sad due to years of pointless sacrifice
    Back in 2002. We went through Ypres, Vimy Ridge, Passchendaele (including largest Commonwealth cemetery at Tyne Cot), Beaumont Hamel (Newfoundland "battle") and the tour threw in Dieppe as well. Really great experience.

    My great grandfather was with the Royal Newfoundland Regiment and was wounded and captured at Monchy-Le-Preux (British battle, part of the same campaign as Vimy Ridge).

    Andrew_Jay on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Kalkino wrote: »
    My great grandfather fought at Passchendaele, man, I feel connected. Anyone done the WW1 tour thing? Ypres is meant to be well worth the trip, if you like feeling sad due to years of pointless sacrifice
    Back in 2002. We went through Ypres, Vimy Ridge, Passchendaele (including largest Commonwealth cemetery at Tyne Cot), Beaumont Hamel (Newfoundland "battle") and the tour threw in Dieppe as well. Really great experience.

    My great grandfather was with the Royal Newfoundland Regiment and was wounded and captured at Monchy-Le-Preux (British battle, part of the same campaign as Vimy Ridge).

    How did you do the tour? Hire car or some sort of arranged tour?

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    My great granddad fought in Vimy Ridge, I thought that was really cool when I found out. I might see this, not sure.

    GreasyKidsStuff on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I did the same tour as Andrew_Jay (not at the same time), less Dieppe. Tyne Cot was absolutely humbling, and Beaumont Hamel was as well...

    oldmanken on
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Huh, I see he edited out the part about Canada not losing that many people in WWI proportionally.

    Anyways, I may go see this, but the review I heard on the radio seemed to indicate that they blew their budget on the beginning and the end of the movie, and the middle was sort of TV-movieish.

    Edit: Incidentally, when you take the numbers from Wiki on WW1 Casualties for Military Deaths and divide them by total population at the time, Canada's percentage population loss is about .9%, compared to UK at 1.95, Germany at 3.14, Serbs lead the list at 6.11%, with the Ottoman Empire second at 3.76%.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So does Dieppe have some sort of special significance for Canadians due to the raid like Gallipoli does for NZ/Australia (like say annual mass pilgrimages)?

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • L*2*G*XL*2*G*X Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    James wrote: »
    Well, volunteer or not, they should still be remembered. The prevention of further disasters like the world wars is what gives their death meaning.

    I'm not sure YAY CANADA WE RULEZ!!! is the way to a; remember them and b; preventing future wars. I might be strawmanning you, but that's what it sounds like, dumb patriotism of the worst kind. Allow me to elaborate

    Sure, volunteers in WW1 went to war to die gloriously for their nation. Or you could say they were brainwashed cannon fodder with no fucking value whatsoever. Just another bushel in the flames. The list of poets, painters, scientists that perished is endless, but everyone who died in that war had value as a human being, and died pointlessly.

    It proved once and for all that you are not a part of a nation. You are property of the nation that is trying to convince you there is a deeper bond than that, just so it can manipulate you better. Wether in war or in the factories, you are nothing but an expendable asset to people who care nothing for you. You are what Krupp has for breakfast regardless of which side you are on.

    After the great war more and more people realised this, and there was a strong support for pacifism, internationalisation on many levels, and emancipation from the nation.

    This is the only valuable thing that war brought us; ideas of redemption.

    The idea that nationalism is a murderous prison system.
    The idea that economic inequality is worse than medieavel fealty.
    That the military forces us into wars to protect their status.
    that industrialists forces governments into wars for financial gain.
    that the mainstream media are run by the same kapitalists who gain from war.
    that politicians are impotent against these forces at best,
    and glory-seeking bastards who willingly send millions to slaughter at worst.
    And that all of them would be utterly powerless if we simply did not do as they say.

    all of this is true now because people don't embrace the following idea:

    ALL PEOPLE are EQUAL and FREE.

    Even nowwe should break our chains and work together for a better world.

    I can't see how taking the identity from these veterans to turn them into faceless 'Canadians' is anything less than once more turning them into cannon fodder. Nor how praising the Canadian fighting spirit is not another way to ennoble the military butchers.

    L*2*G*X on
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    L*2*G*X wrote: »
    James wrote: »
    Well, volunteer or not, they should still be remembered. The prevention of further disasters like the world wars is what gives their death meaning.

    I'm not sure YAY CANADA WE RULEZ!!! is the way to a; remember them and b; preventing future wars. I might be strawmanning you, but that's what it sounds like, dumb patriotism of the worst kind.

    Yeah, I would say you are strawmanning me. My original post was to 'educate' non-Canadians in the thread about the importance of certain battles in the war, which their education system would not have covered (probably because of Euro-centred or American-centred 'patriotic' viewpoints). When I say the war gave us a reputation as expert fighters, I'm not saying it as some patriotic opinion, but as historical fact due to our accomplishments (accomplishments may not be the right word, considering you and many view the war as mostly worthless, but they would have been considered as such during the war).

    I agree with some of your points and disagree with others, but again, I'm not going to get into that in a thread about a movie :P

    James on
  • L*2*G*XL*2*G*X Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    James wrote: »
    L*2*G*X wrote: »
    I might be strawmanning you...

    Yeah, I would say you are strawmanning me.
    .. snip...
    I'm not going to get into that in a thread about a movie :P


    Fair enough on both counts.

    L*2*G*X on
  • Phil G.Phil G. __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    One needs to remember that after Vimy Ridge Canada kind of recognized itself as a nation independent of Britain. The way we conducted that battle kind of showed the world that we weren't just Britain's little Dominion across the ocean.

    Not saying that the war wasn't a clusterfuck of massive proportions, but still, it did help with Canada's self image.

    Phil G. on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Phil G. wrote: »
    One needs to remember that after Vimy Ridge Canada kind of recognized itself as a nation independent of Britain. The way we conducted that battle kind of showed the world that we weren't just Britain's little Dominion across the ocean.

    Not saying that the war wasn't a clusterfuck of massive proportions, but still, it did help with Canada's self image.

    Arthur Currie would've had Haig's job if the war went into 1919. On the one hand, the war went on far too long as it was, but it still would've been cool to see Canada's military genius in command of all Empire forces.

    saggio on
    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
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