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ROUND TWO: FIGHT H: RESULTS

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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Malkor wrote:
    If Bigby gets to get Blue's sword from the armory, then Cable gets to ransack Tony Stark's basement.
    Contestants get to prepare in their "home base". So grabbing something out of the armory of the place which would be a default home base is equivalent to Cable getting to prepare on that Island he's got, with whatever technology is available there. Not Stark tower.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Malkor wrote:
    If Bigby gets to get Blue's sword from the armory, then Cable gets to ransack Tony Stark's basement.

    They can only prepare from their own base of operations and still only bring one item with them.

    edit: beat'd

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    okay I'm calling bullshit. Bigby does not get a fucking magic sword. It's too close to a deus ex machina.

    Kuribo's Shoe on
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Not really. 2 guys can take him at range and Hulk is probably the only person who could survive a vorpal sword.

    Scooter on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    manaleak34 wrote:
    Ambrose typically used the field to manipulate the effects of time and gravity around himself and others--slowing time to a near-halt, redirecting gravity to allow himself to run up walls or change the direction of bullets, etc. Ambrose could use the field on himself, project it over a large area of unspecified dimensions, or concentrate it onto a smaller area or object, such as another person.
    (wiki)

    So yeah, unless they get the drop on him somehow projectiles wouldn't do anything to him. And considering he is quite aware he's in a fight I'm sure he would 'turn on' his field as soon as he can.
    How does the field work? Can he keep it up all the time? He always uses it for a certain effect then shuts it off 'til the next specific situation in his appearances. Also, if he can control the effects of gravity in the field, why couldn't he stop himself from falling into the machine in the JLA crossover? They never say his powers work differently, even though it's an elseworlds, and everyone else is the same. Something doesn't add up about his power.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Considering Providence has some stuff that's beyond Stark even, I don't think it would be too hard to get something advanced out of it.

    Furu on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    okay I'm calling bullshit. Bigby does not get a fucking magic sword. It's too close to a deus ex machina.
    Wonder Woman got an identical sword, and the sword appeared earlier in the match, when Boy Blue used it. Also, he's still in a match against people with long-range attacks who can keep him from getting close enough to use it.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Guys, Bigby fucked Snow White

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    manaleak34 wrote:
    Ambrose typically used the field to manipulate the effects of time and gravity around himself and others--slowing time to a near-halt, redirecting gravity to allow himself to run up walls or change the direction of bullets, etc. Ambrose could use the field on himself, project it over a large area of unspecified dimensions, or concentrate it onto a smaller area or object, such as another person.
    (wiki)

    So yeah, unless they get the drop on him somehow projectiles wouldn't do anything to him. And considering he is quite aware he's in a fight I'm sure he would 'turn on' his field as soon as he can.
    How does the field work? Can he keep it up all the time? He always uses it for a certain effect then shuts it off 'til the next specific situation in his appearances. Also, if he can control the effects of gravity in the field, why couldn't he stop himself from falling into the machine in the JLA crossover? They never say his powers work differently, even though it's an elseworlds, and everyone else is the same. Something doesn't add up about his power.

    His power is unpredictable. But usually not to the point where it becomes unreliable.

    It's weird. Nobody knows how it works. It just does crazy shit.

    Spectre-x on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    You know, this is probably the weirdest fight ever.
    There's a monster, a canine, a guy from the future, and a black dude that "does stuff".

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    You know, this is probably the weirdest fight ever.
    There's a monster, a canine, a guy from the future, and a black dude that "does stuff".
    I need to remember this fight, so I have something to point to when people ask me why I love comics.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Powers aside, all four of them have an assload of combat experience.

    With the exception of Hulk, who is basically a lock, it's anyone's ball game.

    Furu on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I'm trying to think of what the major influences towards victory would be in a fight like this and who would come out on top with each category. So far I've got:
    Strength - Hulk
    Endurance - Hulk / Bigby
    Equipment - Cable/Bigby
    Powers - Ambrose
    Intelligence/tactical ability - Bigby/Cable

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Doesn't Chase have to consciously activate his field to do specific things?

    Can it affect time and gravity at once, for instance?

    Also, his field didn't protect him from getting a clip emptied into his chest.

    I will beat you to death.
    a sound argument, but it doesn't answer the question.
    He didn't die because he was shot, he died because reality was trying to kill him, or something like that.
    so you could just as easily argue that he loses because reality makes him lose. if he had to die because the black guy always dies in action movies, then he has to lose to the more marketable characters.

    Ha ha ha

    That's completely retarded. It wasn't the fact that he was Ambrose that made him die, it was the fact that he was black and in a science fiction movie at the time.

    Unless Battleworld is a movie with Hulk, Bigby or Cable as the main character, courtesy of some super-scientists fucking with the very nature of reality and fiction, Ambrose's weakness wouldn't come into play.

    Read the god damned book or our posts for a change, would you?


    Anyway, Chase's powers royally fuck up both people and datastreams. Cable is a person and uses streams of data to fuck with people. Ambrose has a pretty good defense against Cable, I would say, and probably takes him down.
    don't be such a pretentious assfuck.

    I honestly don't know how his powers work beyond what I've read on wikipedia. I'm sorry that I haven't read your precious books, but I frankly have no interest in reading Planetary after the past few months of discussing how the four of them are such unbeatable, unethical kill machines that people here have made them out to be. But, apparently, I can't ask questions or have opinions without doing so.

    :|

    Conditional_Axe on
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I've read the books, and I don't know why Spectre's been pushing the characters so hard.

    Cable could kill Ambrose by using a force field to push him into something pointy.

    Scooter on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I didn't mean to come off as a jerk, it's just that people have been doing the same "Ambrose Chase will lose because lol he got shot" shit over and over again without even bothering to pay attention the many many times their shitty opinions have been destroyed with the simple explanation of why Ambrose actually got shot.

    And come on! You suggested that he would lose because the other characters were more popular than him, so therefore reality would work against him this time, too! Which is completely illogical!

    But I'm still sorry. I just get annoyed at all these people who just ignore people's posts when they go against what they think a character is able to do, even though it's in the comics and everything.

    (PS shut up scooter or I will pinch you so hard)

    Spectre-x on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    So if Ambrose gets shoved, he can't reverse or stop his fall (Terra Occulta)? What if Bigby uses his winds to shove him into the Grand Canyon? Could he slow his descent or can he only slow the time it takes him, from his perspective, to hit the floor and go splat?

    robosagogo on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    So if Ambrose gets shoved, he can't reverse or stop his fall? What if Bigby uses his winds to shove him into the Grand Canyon?
    According to Planetary/JLA, this is true. According to Wikipedia, it is not.
    Ambrose could make it seem to himself like it took years to fall to his death, but the other contestants would see it happen in real time.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I was not sure whether he died as the result of his powers backfiring or something like that or whether it was a unique function of Planet Fiction, or whatever it was called. He has reality-altering powers, and he was killed by 'reality, not bullets,' so I was curious. And I got attacked for it.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I was not sure whether he died as the result of his powers backfiring or something like that or whether it was a unique function of Planet Fiction, or whatever it was called. He has reality-altering powers, and he was killed by 'reality, not bullets,' so I was curious. And I got attacked for it.

    Well, sorry for that.

    He has physics-altering powers, however, and he was killed not by the laws of physics but by the storyline of the reality he was in.

    Spectre-x on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    So if Ambrose gets shoved, he can't reverse or stop his fall? What if Bigby uses his winds to shove him into the Grand Canyon?
    According to Planetary/JLA, this is true. According to Wikipedia, it is not.
    Ambrose could make it seem to himself like it took years to fall to his death, but the other contestants would see it happen in real time.
    Can he fly or levitate very high (higher than the range of his field)? If he can't fly with his powers, then he's dead.

    robosagogo on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I was not sure whether he died as the result of his powers backfiring or something like that or whether it was a unique function of Planet Fiction, or whatever it was called. He has reality-altering powers, and he was killed by 'reality, not bullets,' so I was curious. And I got attacked for it.
    I read the reality killed him thing as a throwaway joke line when I read the issue, and assumed he was shot because he wasn't using his powers. The powers were interfering with the Drummer's power, so Ambrose didn't use them. Did they later definitively say that it was "reality" that did it?

    Adaemus1sf on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    i haven't read the jla crossover but..it sounds like he died in that too

    Servo on
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    The LuggageThe Luggage Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Hulk wins automatically.

    The only one who can actually last is Cable.

    I mean, dude's got an impenetrable shield.

    The Luggage on
    Interminable
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    I was not sure whether he died as the result of his powers backfiring or something like that or whether it was a unique function of Planet Fiction, or whatever it was called. He has reality-altering powers, and he was killed by 'reality, not bullets,' so I was curious. And I got attacked for it.
    I read the reality killed him thing as a throwaway joke line when I read the issue, and assumed he was shot because he wasn't using his powers. The powers were interfering with the Drummer's power, so Ambrose didn't use them. Did they later definitively say that it was "reality" that did it?

    That was actually the thing in the issue. The scientist was being serious. They were in a sci-fi film, and the storyline had him turn off his powers.

    Ambrose can walk on walls, by the way, so I don't know if he would be able to survive a fall into the Grand Canyon. I assume he can.

    Spectre-x on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    I was not sure whether he died as the result of his powers backfiring or something like that or whether it was a unique function of Planet Fiction, or whatever it was called. He has reality-altering powers, and he was killed by 'reality, not bullets,' so I was curious. And I got attacked for it.
    I read the reality killed him thing as a throwaway joke line when I read the issue, and assumed he was shot because he wasn't using his powers. The powers were interfering with the Drummer's power, so Ambrose didn't use them. Did they later definitively say that it was "reality" that did it?

    That was actually the thing in the issue. The scientist was being serious. They were in a sci-fi film, and the storyline had him turn off his powers.

    Ambrose can walk on walls, by the way, so I don't know if he would be able to survive a fall into the Grand Canyon. I assume he can.

    How? By giving walls gravity?

    robosagogo on
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    Toji SuzuharaToji Suzuhara Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    If he gets shoved back, he can redirect gravity from pulling him down, to pulling on him from the opposite direction of the force of the shove.

    Gravity only pulls so much. It doesn't instantly overcome the opposite force. Once it does, though, it'll pull him in the other direction (towards the new gravity).

    How long it takes to overcome depends on the magnitude of the force. If some dude shoves you, there won't be much force to overcome. If Superman shoves you it's going to take a while for gravity to negate that force.

    Toji Suzuhara on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    I was not sure whether he died as the result of his powers backfiring or something like that or whether it was a unique function of Planet Fiction, or whatever it was called. He has reality-altering powers, and he was killed by 'reality, not bullets,' so I was curious. And I got attacked for it.
    I read the reality killed him thing as a throwaway joke line when I read the issue, and assumed he was shot because he wasn't using his powers. The powers were interfering with the Drummer's power, so Ambrose didn't use them. Did they later definitively say that it was "reality" that did it?

    That was actually the thing in the issue. The scientist was being serious. They were in a sci-fi film, and the storyline had him turn off his powers.

    Ambrose can walk on walls, by the way, so I don't know if he would be able to survive a fall into the Grand Canyon. I assume he can.
    Okay, I reread the issue, and I see what you mean about the sci-fi thing. Forget that, then. Why would he be able to survive a fall into the Grand Canyon? He was killed by bullets, which hit with a lot less force than the ground after a fall of over a mile. He can't fly, or at least was never shown to, and in the JLA special they said he can pause, but not stop or redirect velocity, or he wouldn't have died.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    If he gets shoved back, he can redirect gravity from pulling him down, to pulling on him from the opposite direction of the force of the shove.

    Gravity only pulls so much. It doesn't instantly overcome the opposite force. Once it does, though, it'll pull him in the other direction (towards the new gravity).

    How long it takes to overcome depends on the magnitude of the force. If some dude shoves you, there won't be much force to overcome. If Superman shoves you it's going to take a while for gravity to negate that force.
    Bigby's the son of pretty much the living embodiment of wind, so he can hit Ambrose pretty hard with his aerokinesis.

    Also, he won't see the wind coming so he's likely to be caught off guard.

    robosagogo on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I still don't see why Bigby gets the damn vorpal sword.

    Bigby's a badass, and I like him, but he's not the be-all and end-all here. I can see him finishing last, realistically.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    I was not sure whether he died as the result of his powers backfiring or something like that or whether it was a unique function of Planet Fiction, or whatever it was called. He has reality-altering powers, and he was killed by 'reality, not bullets,' so I was curious. And I got attacked for it.
    I read the reality killed him thing as a throwaway joke line when I read the issue, and assumed he was shot because he wasn't using his powers. The powers were interfering with the Drummer's power, so Ambrose didn't use them. Did they later definitively say that it was "reality" that did it?

    That was actually the thing in the issue. The scientist was being serious. They were in a sci-fi film, and the storyline had him turn off his powers.

    Ambrose can walk on walls, by the way, so I don't know if he would be able to survive a fall into the Grand Canyon. I assume he can.
    Okay, I reread the issue, and I see what you mean about the sci-fi thing. Forget that, then. Why would he be able to survive a fall into the Grand Canyon? He was killed by bullets, which hit with a lot less force than the ground after a fall of over a mile. He can't fly, or at least was never shown to, and in the JLA special they said he can pause, but not stop or redirect velocity, or he wouldn't have died.

    Well obviously regular Ambrose can redirect velocity. He runs up a wall and deflects the course of some bullets.

    Also, in reference to your "he got killed by bullets" comment

    argno.jpg

    Spectre-x on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I've never read more than a few pages of Planetary, but I'm going to vote for Cable and Hulk, because every time I think of someone with the power to affect physics, I think of Hiro from Heroes, and that's just not very impressive next to a super-experienced soldier from the future and an unstoppable green juddgernaut. I'm not even considering Bigby for the win, because as cool as he is, he can still be hurt by conventional means, and everyone else in the match can't.

    Munch on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I recognize that you have problems with the "killed by bullets" comments, but the fact remains: he was hit by bullets, and he died. Are you suggesting that in the real world he would not be harmed by those bullets? Because we have never seen a comic appearance by Chase that would indicate this. The "science fiction universe" defense is interesting, but if you remove half of the information we have about the guy as "wrong", how can you make any claims at all?
    Edit: I'm referring to the trades, so help me out: Have we seen Ambrose Chase other than the two issues we've been discussing?

    Adaemus1sf on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    What? I am declaring the information you make up about him as wrong. I.e. the "Ambrose Chase can be killed with bullets".


    While, yes, that is true because he is not superhumanly durable or anything, it is not true, as most of the people arguing against Chase tend to believe, that his weakness to bullets extends to all situations.

    Unless he is in a science-fiction movie, he is not going to get shot.

    [spoiler:add4d6e4de]He's not even really dead anyway, probably.[/spoiler:add4d6e4de]

    And the Science-fiction defense isn't just interesting, it's true. Planet Fiction worked according to sci-fi rules. The black guy dies, shit happens that shouldn't be physically possible (whatever crossed over in the rocket broke several laws of physics without any difficulty)

    Unless you can somehow transport Ambrose to a fictional reality (within the fictional reality the fight takes place in normally), you are most probably and pretty much definitely not going to kill Ambrose Chase by shooting him with bullets. In fact, that action will probably only result in Ambrose filling you up with several thousand bullets more, using bullet-time.

    And Ambrose, in the comic, can change the direction of gravitational pull, slow down or speed up time, warp space-time itself, chang the course of bullets (Christ he does it in the picture in the OP).

    So there are probably a bunch of ways he could come up with in which he wouldn't die from falling into the Grand Canyon.

    Spectre-x on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    And Ambrose, in the comic, can change the direction of gravitational pull, slow down or speed up time, warp space-time itself, chang the course of bullets (Christ he does it in the picture in the OP).

    So there are probably a bunch of ways he could come up with in which he wouldn't die from falling into the Grand Canyon.

    What if the winds that push him into the Canyon also push him down with greater force than gravity alone would so that, if gravity is reversed, he continues to be pushed downwards nonethless?

    robosagogo on
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Furu wrote:
    Except that Bigby isn't invisible and I think both Chase and Cable are too smart to be ambushed by a swordwielding wolf.

    Bigby is the ultimate predator.

    I edited out the plot spoilers, but if you don't want some interesting background revelations from Fables spoiled, do not read on.
    wikipedia wrote:
    Angered by their intrusion into what he considered to be his territory, and the fact that they killed some of the inhabitants that the Wolf had been saving to eat himself, the Wolf went on the offensive, despite his annoyed discovery that their flesh tasted of corruption and thus was appalling to consume. Roaming ever further from his lands, he struck at will, with no discernable pattern to his attacks, spreading fear among the enemy forces. Increasingly large forces were dispatched to deal with him, which the Wolf took great pleasure in evading or destroying.
    Years passed in this fashion
    and the Wolf encountered a chain gang, in which were held Snow White and Rose Red. Freeing them, he led them to a portal leading to the mundane world, which he had established himself as the unofficial guardian of, tasting each person as they passed through for the taint of corruption that would mark them as a spy of the Adversary. In similar manner, the Wolf helped many Fables escape from the clutches of the enemy over the years that he guarded the hidden portal.

    Not much is known about Fabletown's history before the late 1990's, but Bigby has been the sheriff since its inception. He took time off to fight in both World Wars, primarily as a commando.

    In his wolf form, Bigby is massive, considerably taller than a human being, can carry people with no apparent stress and is a formidable fighter. All other wolves defer to him and call him "The Lord of Wolves". His mixed ancestry gives him the ability to blow massive gusts of wind (the "huff 'n' puff" of the Three Little Pigs story) and can also briefly command local winds to do his bidding. Bigby swam across the Bering Strait without getting cold; he referred to it as "an enjoyable swim". Every one of his senses is far above the normal human ability.
    Because of his extraordinary senses, Bigby is able to pick up on the emotions of thousands of nearby strangers, to the extent that he needs to smoke constantly in order to drown them out. Due to his rapid hair growth, he has to shave several times a day.

    I'll just add that Bigby stated that during the "three little pigs" incident, he was a mere puppy. His "breath attack" since then is ridiculous, and brick houses would hardly be any defense.

    The likelyhood of throwing the son of the fucking God of Wind into space is laughable.

    Bigby can be injured but he heals at an incredible rate. I think he would ultimately lose in a toe to toe fight with Hulk, but I insist that he would not go toe to toe with Hulk, because he is way too fucking smart for that.


    -edit-

    And why do people still not understand why Bigby can use the vorpal sword? Read the fucking rules. They clearly state: one special item that the character would have access to that isn't standard equipment for that character eg. Diana's sword, Batman's atypical equipment, Reed's devices that he has but doesn't normally carry. The vorpal sword, along with all other magical relics in posession of Fabletown, have been made available to Fables characters when they needed them to go do something. Is Beast really going to tell Bigby "no" when Bigby asks if he can borrow the sword? I highly highly doubt it.

    Regina Fong on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    And Ambrose, in the comic, can change the direction of gravitational pull, slow down or speed up time, warp space-time itself, chang the course of bullets (Christ he does it in the picture in the OP).

    So there are probably a bunch of ways he could come up with in which he wouldn't die from falling into the Grand Canyon.

    What if the winds that push him into the Canyon also push him down with greater force than gravity alone would so that, if gravity is reversed, he continues to be pushed downwards nonethless?

    That would mean that Bigby knew everything about Chase's powers, which is improbable since nobody knows everything about Chase's powers.

    Spectre-x on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    jeepguy wrote:
    Bigby can be injured but he heals at an incredible rate. I think he would ultimately lose in a toe to toe fight with Hulk, but I insist that he would not go toe to toe with Hulk, because he is way too fucking smart for that.

    Whether or not Bigby fights Hulk might not necessarily be up to Bigby, however. Hulk likes a challenge, and big = challenge.

    Spectre-x on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    And Ambrose, in the comic, can change the direction of gravitational pull, slow down or speed up time, warp space-time itself, chang the course of bullets (Christ he does it in the picture in the OP).

    So there are probably a bunch of ways he could come up with in which he wouldn't die from falling into the Grand Canyon.

    What if the winds that push him into the Canyon also push him down with greater force than gravity alone would so that, if gravity is reversed, he continues to be pushed downwards nonethless?

    That would mean that Bigby knew everything about Chase's powers, which is improbable since nobody knows everything about Chase's powers.

    He probably knows well enough to stay out of the range of Chase's powers and, when he sees Chase floating out of the Grand Canyon, sending the winds to push him down to the bottom is kind of an obvious move.

    robosagogo on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    And Ambrose, in the comic, can change the direction of gravitational pull, slow down or speed up time, warp space-time itself, chang the course of bullets (Christ he does it in the picture in the OP).

    So there are probably a bunch of ways he could come up with in which he wouldn't die from falling into the Grand Canyon.

    What if the winds that push him into the Canyon also push him down with greater force than gravity alone would so that, if gravity is reversed, he continues to be pushed downwards nonethless?

    That would mean that Bigby knew everything about Chase's powers, which is improbable since nobody knows everything about Chase's powers.

    He probably knows well enough to stay out of the range of Chase's powers and, when he sees Chase floating out of the Grand Canyon, sending the winds to push him down to the bottom is kind of an obvious move.

    Well yes. But it's not even certain that the Grand Canyon will even come up into play. This is just one tiny outcome which might be possible but no-one knows for sure! And stuff.

    Spectre-x on
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