Marvel: What do you think we pay you for?

2

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  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I gotta say, I was unaware of the amount the guy traces and the examples I've seen are kind of disheartening. However, I still like the books the guy has done.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver A Lannister Always Pays His Debts Hear Me RoarRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    D:

    D:


    D:

    Someone got paid for that?

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  • SASA Registered User
    edited October 2006
    D:

    D:


    D:

    Someone got paid for that?

    Paid bunches and bunches.

    I totally won this thread.

    SA on
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  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    How much do artists get paid? I bet it's far less than what we think.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Whoa! Hold the phone. No one says another thing until I have an answer:


    Since when did the Invisible Woman become a blow up doll?

    Caveman Paws on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Seeing all that side by side is borderline ridiculous. I won't call the guy a hack because he clearly has some artistic talent, but stealing ideas from other artists and entertainment weekly is pretty lame.

    Marathon on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver A Lannister Always Pays His Debts Hear Me RoarRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Seeing all that side by side is borderline ridiculous. I won't call the guy a hack because he clearly has some artistic talent, but stealing ideas from other artists and entertainment weekly is pretty lame.

    Artistic talent?

    The only art I see there is the coloring, which he didn't do.

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Seeing all that side by side is borderline ridiculous. I won't call the guy a hack because he clearly has some artistic talent, but stealing ideas from other artists and entertainment weekly is pretty lame.

    Artistic talent?

    The only art I see there is the coloring, which he didn't do.

    I meant that he had enough talent to get the job in the first place. Hopefully he did'nt get hired passing off a bunch of junk he copied.

    Marathon on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Wow, that's pretty flagrant. :| However, it will not prevent me from continuing to buy Ultimate Power. I'm putting up with Chaykin's art on Blade, so I think I can handle the plagiarism.

    wwtMask on
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver A Lannister Always Pays His Debts Hear Me RoarRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Seeing all that side by side is borderline ridiculous. I won't call the guy a hack because he clearly has some artistic talent, but stealing ideas from other artists and entertainment weekly is pretty lame.

    Artistic talent?

    The only art I see there is the coloring, which he didn't do.

    I meant that he had enough talent to get the job in the first place. Hopefully he did'nt get hired passing off a bunch of junk he copied.

    Why not? He coulda just claimed to have used references. Not like you're gonna have an encyclopedic database of every picture ever.

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Seeing all that side by side is borderline ridiculous. I won't call the guy a hack because he clearly has some artistic talent, but stealing ideas from other artists and entertainment weekly is pretty lame.

    Artistic talent?

    The only art I see there is the coloring, which he didn't do.

    I meant that he had enough talent to get the job in the first place. Hopefully he did'nt get hired passing off a bunch of junk he copied.

    Why not? He coulda just claimed to have used references. Not like you're gonna have an encyclopedic database of every picture ever.

    Good point. Can I change my vote to him being a hack now?

    Marathon on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    wwtMask wrote:
    Wow, that's pretty flagrant. :| However, it will not prevent me from continuing to buy Ultimate Power. I'm putting up with Chaykin's art on Blade, so I think I can handle the plagiarism.

    I think I saw in solicitations that issue 3 was cancelled, and it's going to be resolicited later. So he may have been taken off the title.

    Munch on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Munch wrote:
    wwtMask wrote:
    Wow, that's pretty flagrant. :| However, it will not prevent me from continuing to buy Ultimate Power. I'm putting up with Chaykin's art on Blade, so I think I can handle the plagiarism.

    I think I saw in solicitations that issue 3 was cancelled, and it's going to be resolicited later. So he may have been taken off the title.

    Funny enough, I'd be happy if they pushed it back. December is going to be brutal on my wallet even without it.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
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  • SASA Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Munch wrote:
    wwtMask wrote:
    Wow, that's pretty flagrant. :| However, it will not prevent me from continuing to buy Ultimate Power. I'm putting up with Chaykin's art on Blade, so I think I can handle the plagiarism.

    I think I saw in solicitations that issue 3 was cancelled, and it's going to be resolicited later. So he may have been taken off the title.

    Blade is the worst comic Marvel has put out in years.

    Its absolutely terrible.

    SA on
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  • ChalkboredChalkbored Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Munch wrote:
    He also traced one of Talent Caldwell's Spider-Man sketches for the Ultimate Power cover.
    Here's a Newsarama thread with some examples of swipery.

    Edit: Well shit, beaten by SA.

    The tracing defenders in that Newsarama thread are driving me insane. How can somebody not see the difference between using a photo reference and outright tracing?

    To me, this isn't an issue of style but rather an issue of ethics.

    The photographer, lighting artist, makeup artist, and costumer put time and effort into composing the photos Greg Land traces. They're doing his work for him without recieving compensation or credit.

    It's an insult to compare Land's methods to those of people like Tony Harris and Alex Ross. Harris and Ross set up their own photographs. They position the models themselves, set up the lighting themselves, and compose the shots themselves. THEY DO THEIR OWN WORK.

    Chalkbored on
  • GABBO GABBO GABBOGABBO GABBO GABBO Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    SA wrote:
    Oh wait, theres more!

    soj3.JPG

    This is the one that got Marvel sued, and I'm assuming is the reason behind this letter.
    Whatever, I like Greg Land.

    GABBO GABBO GABBO on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Chalkbored wrote:
    Munch wrote:
    He also traced one of Talent Caldwell's Spider-Man sketches for the Ultimate Power cover.
    Here's a Newsarama thread with some examples of swipery.

    Edit: Well shit, beaten by SA.

    The tracing defenders in that Newsarama thread are driving me insane. How can somebody not see the difference between using a photo reference and outright tracing?

    To me, this isn't an issue of style but rather an issue of ethics.

    The photographer, lighting artist, makeup artist, and costumer put time and effort into composing the photos Greg Land traces. They're doing his work for him without recieving compensation or credit.

    It's an insult to compare Land's methods to those of people like Tony Harris and Alex Ross. Harris and Ross set up their own photographs. They position the models themselves, set up the lighting themselves, and compose the shots themselves. THEY DO THEIR OWN WORK.

    They also merely use their photographs as reference material as opposed to flat-out fucking tracing them like Greg Land does.

    And you make me sad, Mani. Very sad.

    Spectre-x on
  • SASA Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Manifest wrote:
    SA wrote:
    Oh wait, theres more!

    soj3.JPG

    This is the one that got Marvel sued, and I'm assuming is the reason behind this letter.
    Whatever, I like Greg Land.

    I got your comic today, Mani.

    Finally.

    I will read it later tonight.

    SA on
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  • hughtronhughtron __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2006
    He's put out quite a few books over the years, and I seriously doubt that he traced every single panel in every book from some other photograph. It's kind of wacky that he's 'traced' all these different pictures, but those examples are all from different issues over a period of like two or three years. It's not like an issue of Ultimate Fantastic Four was just one page of Sue. He does manage to usually take these traces and turn them into a cohesive comic book.

    I mean it's cool that you guys hate him, that's your perogative, but you're an awful picky bunch.

    hughtron on
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  • PorphPorph Registered User
    edited October 2006
    hughtron wrote:
    I mean it's cool that you guys hate him, that's your perogative, but you're an awful picky bunch.

    I don't think anyone hates him - who am I kidding, this is an internet forum, someone definitely cares enough to hate him - but if you listen, most of us have acknowledged that the man can draw. The problem is that he has crossed the line separating referencing a work and plagiarism. And while not all of his current work is tainted by this, a great deal of it is. So much so that Marvel had to send out a special reminder.

    And while I realize that Land isn't the only party guilty of this, he is certainly the most popular example and, if Marvel didn't comment on it, the practice would have spread. Marvel had to stop it before they were hit with a bigtime lawsuit, say for Land's tracing of frames from popular movies, for example.

    Porph on
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  • Kaosu ReidoKaosu Reido Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    hughtron wrote:
    He's put out quite a few books over the years, and I seriously doubt that he traced every single panel in every book from some other photograph. It's kind of wacky that he's 'traced' all these different pictures, but those examples are all from different issues over a period of like two or three years. It's not like an issue of Ultimate Fantastic Four was just one page of Sue. He does manage to usually take these traces and turn them into a cohesive comic book.

    I mean it's cool that you guys hate him, that's your perogative, but you're an awful picky bunch.

    I can't count the number of times when I've been reading UFF and I get taken out of a story because Land "draws" a character who's giving this scared, desperate exclaimation in such a way that they look happy. Or orgasming.

    "Oh! OH! We're all going to die! YES! REED!"

    "Golly Gee, there's a fist in my stomach. Weee!"

    Either everyone in his books are on drugs, or he can't even find the correct expressions to trace.

    Kaosu Reido on
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  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    edited October 2006
    I like about half of any issue that Land works on.

    DJ Eebs on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I like Land.

    Mai-Kero on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    I like Land.

    Red decks are better.

    Fencingsax on
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  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    I like Land.

    Red decks are better.

    Nice.

    Furu on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2006
    SA wrote:

    I know I love my John Romita Jr and some people complain about his style.(Not sure why though)

    i love jrjr art


    i don't think there's another artist i like that so many other people dislike



    actually yes there is now that i think about it


    [spoiler:d076483e96]frank miller[/spoiler:d076483e96]

    Servo on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Frank Miller used to be cool. Now he sucks.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • hughtronhughtron __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2006
    JRJr is the Raddest. Somedays I wish he drew every comic that Marvel publishes.

    hughtron on
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  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    It's more like that he's more himself than he was before.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • hughtronhughtron __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2006
    He is making a comic where Batman fights Al-Quaeda.

    He has lost his mind, and it will be so utterly awful that I feel compelled to buy it.

    hughtron on
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  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I think he backed off on that.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • hughtronhughtron __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2006
    august wrote:
    I think he backed off on that.
    He's obviously so busy writing ASB&R. You know when your comic is passed by Frank Quitely something is wrong.

    Although I guess he might be busy with that 300 movie. Maybe.

    hughtron on
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  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Yeah, busy rolling around in money.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Frank Miller is so fucking out of his mind.

    Did he really drop out of Batman vs. Al Quaeda?

    Sars_Boy on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I thought so, but don't quote me.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2006
    hughtron wrote:
    august wrote:
    I think he backed off on that.
    He's obviously so busy writing ASB&R. You know when your comic is passed by Frank Quitely something is wrong.

    Although I guess he might be busy with that 300 movie. Maybe.

    hey frank quitely is rad

    Servo on
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  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Servo wrote:
    hughtron wrote:
    august wrote:
    I think he backed off on that.
    He's obviously so busy writing ASB&R. You know when your comic is passed by Frank Quitely something is wrong.

    Although I guess he might be busy with that 300 movie. Maybe.

    hey frank quitely is rad

    But slow.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • hughtronhughtron __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2006
    Frank Quietly is one of my absolute favorite artists, but fast he is not.

    hughtron on
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  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2006
    that he most certainly is not

    Servo on
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  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    He did most of New X-Men and that was a monthly, right?

    Furu on
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