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Sarah Palin: She could have been your freaking VP

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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    Alaska doesn't do appointments to senate seats.

    What do they do instead?

    Moose shooting contests.

    Last time the frontrunner had to drop out due to a tail rotor failure.

    Doc on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    You guys realize that about a fifth of adult Americans don't know that the Earth goes around the Sun, right? Around a quarter don't know that the US was originally part of England.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowledge-levels.aspx

    All I'm trying to say is that the Africa thing is pretty believable if you set your bar to the realistic level of education in the US.

    But shouldn't more be expected from our leaders?

    Clearly, more was expected from our leaders. We're talking about the person who lost, after all.

    She's still governor of Alaska.


    Fuck Alaska. They just re-elected for Senate a man who was convicted on federal bribery charges. They don't have a problem with "criminal", why would they have a problem with "stupid"?
    Governmentof what I'm pretty sure is the smallest state in the union does diddly to qualify you for national leadership. Be governor of California, New York, Texa, Virginia, Florida, hell, even Arkansas, a state where you actually have to deal with large, varied population issues and shit that matters on a national basis. That's an actual qualification.

    Alaska is actually the largest state in the union..?

    Burtletoy on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I think she doesn't have some knowledge that I wish everyone had, and certainly want any leader in this country to have. But she didn't put herself out there.

    Blaming her for this is like blaming house buyers for the recent collapse. when you go to a bank and they offer you a loan with ridiculous terms, you trust them and you trust that they trust you. when you get a call from John McCain asking you to be VP, you trust that he trusts you. dumb people don't know they're dumb.

    Variable on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Alaska is actually the largest state in the union..?

    He was probably speaking (incorrectly) about population.

    Doc on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I have to say, I'm not really sure I believe what I just said.

    Variable on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2008
    I'm definitely more inclined to believe that a large portion of respondents were fucking with the pollster.

    Dear god I hope that's true.

    A) It probably depends on how the question was phrased. A lot of people might confused "rotate" and "revolve", misunderstanding the question, and flail at the correct answer. Asking "Does the earth go around the sun?" might yield better results.

    B) Why is it so hard to believe that a whole lot of people have forgotten the answer to a random trivia question they learned in third grade that they have not needed to know in the decades between then and now? And why does this necessarily make them stupid? If you have no reason to recall the answer to a question, you're likely to forget it. Doesn't matter how "trivial" it is.

    ElJeffe on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Alaska is actually the largest state in the union..?

    Largest by area, fourth-smallest by population. I think the latter tends to outweigh the former when it comes to complexity of the office.

    Though I will agree that Governor of Alaska is going to be more difficult than mayor of a city of similar population. Due to land area and various issues across the state.
    Variable wrote: »
    I think she doesn't have some knowledge that I wish everyone had, and certainly want any leader in this country to have. But she didn't put herself out there.

    Blaming her for this is like blaming house buyers for the recent collapse. when you go to a bank and they offer you a loan with ridiculous terms, you trust them and you trust that they trust you. when you get a call from John McCain asking you to be VP, you trust that he trusts you. dumb people don't know they're dumb.

    I feel fine hating dumb people, though, when their being dumb has negative effects on me. Like with home buyers. Or with this dumbass, had she managed to get elected.

    mcdermott on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2008
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I feel fine hating dumb people, though, when their being dumb has negative effects on me. Like with home buyers. Or with this dumbass, had she managed to get elected.

    :cry:

    ElJeffe on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I'm definitely more inclined to believe that a large portion of respondents were fucking with the pollster.

    Dear god I hope that's true.

    A) It probably depends on how the question was phrased. A lot of people might confused "rotate" and "revolve", misunderstanding the question, and flail at the correct answer. Asking "Does the earth go around the sun?" might yield better results.

    B) Why is it so hard to believe that a whole lot of people have forgotten the answer to a random trivia question they learned in third grade that they have not needed to know in the decades between then and now? And why does this necessarily make them stupid? If you have no reason to recall the answer to a question, you're likely to forget it. Doesn't matter how "trivial" it is.

    I'll admit to totally flaking on "does the sun rise in the east or the west" on an IQ test once. I believe my answer was "fuck if I know or care?"

    kildy on
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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    You guys realize that about a fifth of adult Americans don't know that the Earth goes around the Sun, right? Around a quarter don't know that the US was originally part of England.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowledge-levels.aspx

    All I'm trying to say is that the Africa thing is pretty believable if you set your bar to the realistic level of education in the US.

    I don't buy the earth/sun deal. I read it as 19% of people fucked up and circled the wrong answer or misunderstood the question.
    So still dumb, then.

    What? No.

    "You think the sun goes around the earth?"
    "No, that's retarded."
    "But that's what you answered on this survey."
    "Let me see that. Oh, so I did. Can I change it? I mean, this is obvious."
    "No."

    If you think that making a dumb mistake once in a while make a person dumb, well... how's the view from the ivory tower?

    Maybe I'm wrong. God, I hope people aren't actually that dumb. I just have a hard time believing it.

    Consider this: how many people do you think can accurately describe why it is cold in the winter and warm in the summer. Because I'll bet you good money that more people will say "because we are further from the sun."

    That's a tricky question, though. You have to know about the tilted axis, and consider the relationship between tilt and spin, and how a spherical object is illuminated/heated by a distant source like the sun. I had to check wikipedia to get an exact answer.

    Evil Multifarious on
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    flamebroiledchickenflamebroiledchicken Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Vice-president? Fuck, John McCain is 72 and has cancer, he wouldn't have survived his first term. This crazy lady would have been PRESIDENT. I was never part of the Obama echo chamber, but it was this realization that really tipped the scales for me.

    flamebroiledchicken on
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    You guys realize that about a fifth of adult Americans don't know that the Earth goes around the Sun, right? Around a quarter don't know that the US was originally part of England.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowledge-levels.aspx

    All I'm trying to say is that the Africa thing is pretty believable if you set your bar to the realistic level of education in the US.

    I don't buy the earth/sun deal. I read it as 19% of people fucked up and circled the wrong answer or misunderstood the question.
    So still dumb, then.

    What? No.

    "You think the sun goes around the earth?"
    "No, that's retarded."
    "But that's what you answered on this survey."
    "Let me see that. Oh, so I did. Can I change it? I mean, this is obvious."
    "No."

    If you think that making a dumb mistake once in a while make a person dumb, well... how's the view from the ivory tower?

    Maybe I'm wrong. God, I hope people aren't actually that dumb. I just have a hard time believing it.

    Consider this: how many people do you think can accurately describe why it is cold in the winter and warm in the summer. Because I'll bet you good money that more people will say "because we are further from the sun."

    That's a tricky question, though. You have to know about the tilted axis, and consider the relationship between tilt and spin, and how a spherical object is illuminated/heated by a distant source like the sun. I had to check wikipedia to get an exact answer.

    Yeah, lots of people are caught by that because it's not obvious and isn't necessarily covered in science class. I only know why that is because if independent research - I've always found astronomy interesting so I look that shit up. Someone who doesn't care can have an IQ of 150 and not be able to answer that off the cuff.

    Nova_C on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    PantsB wrote: »
    piL wrote: »
    I think Sarah Palin's nomination for VP is a telling symptom of the political process. I think it is rare that we actually do choose amongst the smartest, or those with the best leadership. We really vote almost primarily on ideaology, and so this sort of thing crops up.

    We do not choose our leaders from business owners and CEOs who have brought start-ups to multi-billion dollar corporations. The rare few times we've had full fledged "General of the Army", we've had decent presidents (Eisenhower, Washington, and Grant), but once every 75 years is few and far between. Only one president has achieved a doctorate (Woodrow Wilson, Johns-Hopkins).

    People who are these things exist in America, but I guess they're probably too smart to run for office. I don't approve, but it just seems that's the way it goes. Bill Gates/Dr. Roger Tsien 2012.

    The qualities that make a good CEO or a good General and a good President aren't necessarily the same. GW Bush was supposed to be the CEO President. They goals of business and government are not the same and there aren't that many people who have brought start-ups to multi-billion dollar corporations. Of those, few want to be President and fewer still have that desire and the necessary skill set.

    And Grant was a terrible President. Twelve Generals have become President:
    Washington, Jackson, W. Harrison, Taylor, Pierce, A. Johnson, Grant, Hayes, Garfield, Arthur, B. Harrison, and Eisenhower. There are two, maybe three good Presidents on that list (to be fair W Harrison was barely President) and several terrible ones (Grant, A Johnson, Pierce, Taylor). Electing Generals did not work out well at all.

    And your example illuminates that point. Bill Gates would be a terrible President. He has no experience in government or policy. He managed a corporation in a niche market (computer software). He has no background in law. His people skills are limited. He treats his employees below average for his industry, produces mediocre products and engaged in illegal business tactics.

    Would you have Dr. Tsien design a bridge for you? Or act as your medical doctor? Or as a hostage negotiator? So why would you think a chemist, however brilliant, would be well suited to be President/VP?

    Doesn't Obama have a Phd?

    edit- it's a juris doctor

    Sam on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    You guys realize that about a fifth of adult Americans don't know that the Earth goes around the Sun, right? Around a quarter don't know that the US was originally part of England.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowledge-levels.aspx

    All I'm trying to say is that the Africa thing is pretty believable if you set your bar to the realistic level of education in the US.

    I don't buy the earth/sun deal. I read it as 19% of people fucked up and circled the wrong answer or misunderstood the question.
    So still dumb, then.

    What? No.

    "You think the sun goes around the earth?"
    "No, that's retarded."
    "But that's what you answered on this survey."
    "Let me see that. Oh, so I did. Can I change it? I mean, this is obvious."
    "No."

    If you think that making a dumb mistake once in a while make a person dumb, well... how's the view from the ivory tower?

    Maybe I'm wrong. God, I hope people aren't actually that dumb. I just have a hard time believing it.

    Consider this: how many people do you think can accurately describe why it is cold in the winter and warm in the summer. Because I'll bet you good money that more people will say "because we are further from the sun."

    That's a tricky question, though. You have to know about the tilted axis, and consider the relationship between tilt and spin, and how a spherical object is illuminated/heated by a distant source like the sun. I had to check wikipedia to get an exact answer.

    Yeah, lots of people are caught by that because it's not obvious and isn't necessarily covered in science class. I only know why that is because if independent research - I've always found astronomy interesting so I look that shit up. Someone who doesn't care can have an IQ of 150 and not be able to answer that off the cuff.

    Every kid needs to watch Bill Nye for a good 3 years or so.

    KalTorak on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2008
    kildy wrote: »
    I'll admit to totally flaking on "does the sun rise in the east or the west" on an IQ test once. I believe my answer was "fuck if I know or care?"

    And see - not that I'm saying you're dumb, or anything - I would consider this a far more obvious question. You see the sun rise and set every day. This is information that is actually useful to the average person, much more so than which body revolves around the other, given that you can't just look at the sky and deduce it on your own.

    ElJeffe on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2008
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Yeah, lots of people are caught by that because it's not obvious and isn't necessarily covered in science class. I only know why that is because if independent research - I've always found astronomy interesting so I look that shit up. Someone who doesn't care can have an IQ of 150 and not be able to answer that off the cuff.

    You can apply this to pretty much any standard science question. If you want to criticize people for not knowing this stuff, don't call them stupid. Call them disinterested in unessential information. Call them uncurious.

    ElJeffe on
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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    I'll admit to totally flaking on "does the sun rise in the east or the west" on an IQ test once. I believe my answer was "fuck if I know or care?"

    And see - not that I'm saying you're dumb, or anything - I would consider this a far more obvious question. You see the sun rise and set every day. This is information that is actually useful to the average person, much more so than which body revolves around the other, given that you can't just look at the sky and deduce it on your own.

    But this is the sort of thing that I do think makes a good indicator, because it shows the ability to figure things out. I can say instantly that the sun rises in the east, but even if I couldn't...

    My house faces east. I get glare through the back window on the tv during sunset. Ergo, sun sets in the west, must rise in the east.

    Delzhand on
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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    piL wrote: »
    We do not choose our leaders from business owners and CEOs who have brought start-ups to multi-billion dollar corporations. The rare few times we've had full fledged "General of the Army", we've had decent presidents (Eisenhower, Washington, and Grant),

    o_O

    Grant was a great general and a good man, but a terrible president.

    EDIT: I see this was actually already covered, but I should stand up for Grant. He was far from inept, and he only fell off the wagon in later life because he had hideous painful mouth cancer. Current historians have really rehabilitated his reputation - the new consensus is that as a general, he was fucking badass. And he was a really nice, intelligent guy who wrote a really good memoir. He was just poorly suited to be a statesman.

    Jacobkosh on
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    urahonkyurahonky Resident FF7R hater Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    mcdermott wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    I think the keyword here is: Number. If you did one or two, you can be forgiven. But man... She just kept bringing the stupid. It hurt McCain more than helped him.

    She broke the first, second, and third commandments of a VP pick...they are all "Do no fucking harm!"

    To be fair, Biden tried to as well (well, he probably didn't try but he managed). But the amount of harm he did can be approximated as zero compared to the debacle that was Palin.
    I really don't feel sorry for her. The more videos I watch of her talking and acting like she's better than those people in the "un-american" states just irritates the shit out of me.
    Hm, for some reason an image of her in my mind of her saying "Ayers" in her Alaskan accent dissolved some of the apathy.

    I guess she did have that "higher than thou" attitude... the entire "Ter'rist" views she had on Obama were pretty angering.

    She was basically a caricature of the most offensive and obnoxious parts of the GOP.

    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.

    urahonky on
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Alaska is actually the largest state in the union..?

    He was probably speaking (incorrectly) about population.
    I was curious about who would call me on it, and on what point. However, during the election, several times I heard being 'governor of the largest state in the union' being used as a qualification for her, which as any measure of capability is absolute bullshit.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    piL wrote: »
    We do not choose our leaders from business owners and CEOs who have brought start-ups to multi-billion dollar corporations. The rare few times we've had full fledged "General of the Army", we've had decent presidents (Eisenhower, Washington, and Grant),

    o_O

    Grant was a great general and a good man, but a terrible president.

    We covered that a while ago, I already admitted my point was poorly made, if made at all.

    piL on
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    DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I can understand being caught off-guard on a simple question, or making a honest mistake once in a while. However, there are basic facts about every sphere of knowledge that every human in a civilized and educated country should be expected to know, or have the basic grasp of.

    Djiem on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    I'll admit to totally flaking on "does the sun rise in the east or the west" on an IQ test once. I believe my answer was "fuck if I know or care?"

    And see - not that I'm saying you're dumb, or anything - I would consider this a far more obvious question. You see the sun rise and set every day. This is information that is actually useful to the average person, much more so than which body revolves around the other, given that you can't just look at the sky and deduce it on your own.

    It's a caring thing. I saw the sun rise and set, but as I was 12, I didn't really give a fuck which direction it was rising or setting in. Nobody gives directions to children based on NSEW or anything these days. You say take a right on Whatever Street, not "Get to the intersection and go North"

    Then again, my IQ test came with a doctors note that said "bright kid, test inaccurate because he honestly doesn't Care about half the questions we asked" For most of my childhood unless it was directly relevant in my interests or on a test, I didn't care to remember it.

    edit: this is to say, earth revolving kinds of questions should be common knowledge, but depending who you ask, some people may honestly not be curious enough at that stage to bother knowing it. Should all this be covered in class? Yes. But I feel we're taught early on to remember until the test, and then it's useless.

    kildy on
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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I always remembered the sun rose in the east and set in the west because Japan is "the land of the rising sun" and it is commonly considered "the east."

    Regardless, not knowing this kind of information isn't stupidity. Lack of knowledge isn't stupid in itself. Not pursuing knowledge that is important, when it is within your grasp, is stupid; even then, the lack of knowledge itself is ignorant.

    Palin is an ignorant woman. I don't know if I'd even call her stupid; she's cunning and for her, politics didn't require knowledge until recently. It required tactical movements at which she was somewhat adept. Of course in some ways she is stupid, and she is spectacularly, powerfully ignorant.

    Evil Multifarious on
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    TachTach Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    urahonky wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    I think the keyword here is: Number. If you did one or two, you can be forgiven. But man... She just kept bringing the stupid. It hurt McCain more than helped him.

    She broke the first, second, and third commandments of a VP pick...they are all "Do no fucking harm!"

    To be fair, Biden tried to as well (well, he probably didn't try but he managed). But the amount of harm he did can be approximated as zero compared to the debacle that was Palin.
    I really don't feel sorry for her. The more videos I watch of her talking and acting like she's better than those people in the "un-american" states just irritates the shit out of me.
    Hm, for some reason an image of her in my mind of her saying "Ayers" in her Alaskan accent dissolved some of the apathy.

    I guess she did have that "higher than thou" attitude... the entire "Ter'rist" views she had on Obama were pretty angering.

    She was basically a caricature of the most offensive and obnoxious parts of the GOP.

    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.
    Well, to be fair, VETTING YOUR POTENTIAL RUNNING MATE is a damn fine idea. They basically did a minimal scan of her background, temperment, and personal history, and decided- hey, she's a woman and a fundie, SCORE!

    Ulitmate blame falls to McCain for letting his team off the leash to pick her, and for his failure at even trying to control her.

    Tach on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Tach wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    I think the keyword here is: Number. If you did one or two, you can be forgiven. But man... She just kept bringing the stupid. It hurt McCain more than helped him.

    She broke the first, second, and third commandments of a VP pick...they are all "Do no fucking harm!"

    To be fair, Biden tried to as well (well, he probably didn't try but he managed). But the amount of harm he did can be approximated as zero compared to the debacle that was Palin.
    I really don't feel sorry for her. The more videos I watch of her talking and acting like she's better than those people in the "un-american" states just irritates the shit out of me.
    Hm, for some reason an image of her in my mind of her saying "Ayers" in her Alaskan accent dissolved some of the apathy.

    I guess she did have that "higher than thou" attitude... the entire "Ter'rist" views she had on Obama were pretty angering.

    She was basically a caricature of the most offensive and obnoxious parts of the GOP.

    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.
    Well, to be fair, VETTING YOUR POTENTIAL RUNNING MATE is a damn fine idea. They basically did a minimal scan of her background, temperment, and personal history, and decided- hey, she's a woman and a fundie, SCORE!

    Ulitmate blame falls to McCain for letting his team off the leash to pick her, and for his failure at even trying to control her.

    Well, the best part was that one of the reasons they picked her was that she was an "out of left field" pick, and they'd be able to catch the Obama campaign flatfooted. Great plan...except that one of the aides in the Obama campaign was Tony Knowles' (Palin's Dem opponent in 06) campaign manager, who had done all sorts of oppo ON her. So instead of it being Pearl Harbor, it was more like Midway. :P

    AngelHedgie on
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    TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Alaska is actually the largest state in the union..?

    He was probably speaking (incorrectly) about population.
    I was curious about who would call me on it, and on what point. However, during the election, several times I heard being 'governor of the largest state in the union' being used as a qualification for her, which as any measure of capability is absolute bullshit.

    Just twist the words and say you meant by population density.

    Fox News: JOB PLEASE

    TheBlackWind on
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    LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.

    McCain's campaign had months to fully vet their VP pick.

    He won the nomination back in March, for fuck's sake.

    His campaign should have spent the following months grilling every possible VP pick until they knew exactly how they would act under pressure. Instead they apparently waiting until the last second and flailed around frantically for someone, anyone with a vagina to lure in the mythical PUMA voters.

    McCain has nobody to blame for Palin's staggering ineptitude under the barest of media scrutiny but himself, or whoever in his misbegotten campaign of the damned convinced him to pick her.

    Lawndart on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Lawndart wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.

    McCain's campaign had months to fully vet their VP pick.

    He won the nomination back in March, for fuck's sake.

    His campaign should have spent the following months grilling every possible VP pick until they knew exactly how they would act under pressure. Instead they apparently waiting until the last second and flailed around frantically for someone, anyone with a vagina to lure in the mythical PUMA voters.

    McCain has nobody to blame for Palin's staggering ineptitude under the barest of media scrutiny but himself, or whoever in his misbegotten campaign of the damned convinced him to pick her.

    To be fair, he had vetted Lieberman, but then the fundies made their power play.

    AngelHedgie on
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    wrdwrd Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    MrMister wrote: »
    Notice that the guy doesn't attribute any source to the comment--I'm guessing some staffer who hated her just pretended to let that slip now that the campaign is over and the rumors are flying.

    That's not the case, apparently. What's coming out now is information that reporters embedded in the campaigns have been collecting for weeks, off the record and on the condition that they sit on the information until after the election. Yes, it's coming from combative people within the campaign who are now organizing into the traditional circular firing squad, but they're not just now, since Tuesday, starting to angrily blurt this stuff out.

    And of course we have no idea if the individual reporters in question are responsible reporters, but if they are, they confirmed the stories with more than one source. The fact that multiple reporters from different news organizations seem to have consistent information on this matter lends some credibility, particularly when oen of the networks is Fox News, which has been trying to defend Palin for quite some time. Even O'Reilly isn't questioning the facts, he's just trying to argue that they're not important.

    wrd on
    Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror. -Ming the Merciless
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Lawndart wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.

    McCain's campaign had months to fully vet their VP pick.

    He won the nomination back in March, for fuck's sake.

    His campaign should have spent the following months grilling every possible VP pick until they knew exactly how they would act under pressure. Instead they apparently waiting until the last second and flailed around frantically for someone, anyone with a vagina to lure in the mythical PUMA voters.

    McCain has nobody to blame for Palin's staggering ineptitude under the barest of media scrutiny but himself, or whoever in his misbegotten campaign of the damned convinced him to pick her.

    To be fair, he had vetted Lieberman, but then the fundies made their power play.

    Hope the fundies enjoy squandering their political capital.

    KalTorak on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    As usual, the Shakesville crew are being openminded to the point that their brains fall out.

    Yes, Palin wasn't the only problem of the McCain campaign. She was, however, the largest one, and in many ways is emblematic of all the problems that the campaign had. When you hear people all over saying that they chose not to vote for McCain at least in part because she was his running mate, then yes, maybe it's actually appropriate for her to apologize for the damage she did.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    wrdwrd Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Lawndart wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.

    McCain's campaign had months to fully vet their VP pick.

    He won the nomination back in March, for fuck's sake.

    His campaign should have spent the following months grilling every possible VP pick until they knew exactly how they would act under pressure. Instead they apparently waiting until the last second and flailed around frantically for someone, anyone with a vagina to lure in the mythical PUMA voters.

    That's not what happened, again according to the same embedded reporters. McCain's team spent a fair amount of time putting together a list, and then narrowing it down to a short list. But when the convention approached, they knew they were in trouble and that they needed a game-changer. And nobody on the short list was likely to be a game-changer. So they went for the hail mary -- and it actually worked, from a strategic standpoint. McCain led the polls for some time after the Palin pick, and his campaign people will argue that if the economy hadn't tanked she might have been the difference between winning and losing. I don't like to believe that myself, I like to think her disastrous interview performances would have resulted in a loss anyway. But regardless, the pick wasn't made because they procrastinated, it was made because the campaign's situation became dire.

    wrd on
    Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror. -Ming the Merciless
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    VothVoth Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I wouldn't mind if Palin ran for the Senate. Hey, if Michelle Bachman can win, we might as well add some more crazy. I think c-span might want to invest in her campaign.

    Voth on
    reverbnation -- last.fm -- facebook -- twitter -- bandcamp --youtube -- PSN: audapostrophe -- XBL: audapostrophe -- NNID: audapostrophe -- Myspace
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    TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.

    McCain's campaign had months to fully vet their VP pick.

    He won the nomination back in March, for fuck's sake.

    His campaign should have spent the following months grilling every possible VP pick until they knew exactly how they would act under pressure. Instead they apparently waiting until the last second and flailed around frantically for someone, anyone with a vagina to lure in the mythical PUMA voters.

    McCain has nobody to blame for Palin's staggering ineptitude under the barest of media scrutiny but himself, or whoever in his misbegotten campaign of the damned convinced him to pick her.

    To be fair, he had vetted Lieberman, but then the fundies made their power play.

    Hope the fundies enjoy squandering their political capital.

    The best part? They are going on a RINO hunt, not realizing that their inability to appeal to the middle was what killed them. They are going to tear the Republican Party to pieces if they have their way.

    TheBlackWind on
    PAD ID - 328,762,218
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    EmanonEmanon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Emanon wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Emanon wrote: »
    I've been ghosting these forums for some time and have seen many hate filled threads regarding Sarah Palin.

    I'm... not sure where you're going with this. There's probably a reason why we hate Sarah Palin.

    Lots of threads, lots of hate. That's my point.
    So you came in to tell us that you've noticed we don't like her? Awesome!

    No, but I don't want the same demonizing for sticking up for her.

    Emanon on
    Treats Animals Right!
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    DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.

    McCain's campaign had months to fully vet their VP pick.

    He won the nomination back in March, for fuck's sake.

    His campaign should have spent the following months grilling every possible VP pick until they knew exactly how they would act under pressure. Instead they apparently waiting until the last second and flailed around frantically for someone, anyone with a vagina to lure in the mythical PUMA voters.

    McCain has nobody to blame for Palin's staggering ineptitude under the barest of media scrutiny but himself, or whoever in his misbegotten campaign of the damned convinced him to pick her.

    To be fair, he had vetted Lieberman, but then the fundies made their power play.

    Hope the fundies enjoy squandering their political capital.

    The best part? They are going on a RINO hunt, not realizing that their inability to appeal to the middle was what killed them. They are going to tear the Republican Party to pieces if they have their way.

    It's like they're immune to common sense.

    Do they even realize that they'd have to demonize Christopher Buckley?

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Derrick wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah I don't really blame McCain for choosing her, because there's no way he could have known she was this way. But once the cameras turned onto her, she acted like she knew everything and anyone who disagreed was evil.

    McCain's campaign had months to fully vet their VP pick.

    He won the nomination back in March, for fuck's sake.

    His campaign should have spent the following months grilling every possible VP pick until they knew exactly how they would act under pressure. Instead they apparently waiting until the last second and flailed around frantically for someone, anyone with a vagina to lure in the mythical PUMA voters.

    McCain has nobody to blame for Palin's staggering ineptitude under the barest of media scrutiny but himself, or whoever in his misbegotten campaign of the damned convinced him to pick her.

    To be fair, he had vetted Lieberman, but then the fundies made their power play.

    Hope the fundies enjoy squandering their political capital.

    The best part? They are going on a RINO hunt, not realizing that their inability to appeal to the middle was what killed them. They are going to tear the Republican Party to pieces if they have their way.

    It's like they're immune to common sense.

    Do they even realize that they'd have to demonize Christopher Buckley?

    I'm pretty sure they already did so.

    kildy on
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    iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    [edit] You know what? jacobkosh says it better, just see the post below mine...

    iTunesIsEvil on
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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    Emanon wrote: »
    No, but I don't want the same demonizing for sticking up for her.

    As a fake American, I cheerfully submit that turnabout is fair play.

    I also think that there are worse things to do in life than "demonize" a public figure who says morally reprehensible and/or stupid things. If you don't like it you are, of course, invited to demonstrate how these things are in fact not morally reprehensible and/or dumb.

    Jacobkosh on
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