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Posts

  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Khavall wrote: »
    I'll be working on some Ligeti etudes soon, but I'll see about coming up with a few quick mock-ups, I may end up having time to throw together a few real tracks soon-ish, before all the spring semester recitals and performances need a pianist or need a new piece to play for their concert.

    Sweet, just let me know what you need to know and I can supply any information you need about the game, so you can write proper themes and what not. I don't know much about music, but there wouldn't be that many different songs and I don't think it would be all too hard to do.

    Just let me know when/if you can do some songs and/or post them here. I guess the idea is that each area of the game has a musical theme. The areas are: the Stone Wharf, Catacombs, Dungeon, Haunted Forest, and a general adventurous Overworld theme. So five themes. And then of course some kind of diddy to go with the Title screen. And a short theme of some kind for an "ending." That's it.

    slash000 on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I know the priority lists are right, but I'm having problems the sword logic as well. Maybe.... maybe it's a "never guard the sword" clause. Code as you see I guess.

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    halkun wrote: »
    I know the priority lists are right, but I'm having problems the sword logic as well. Maybe.... maybe it's a "never guard the sword" clause. Code as you see I guess.

    That's gotta be it. It's the only thing that makes sense. Thanks for figuring that out! :^:




    In other update news, I just managed to get the code working for the Dragon to allow him to chase the player between the different rooms properly.

    I think I should get to the magnet priority list first, then do the dragon(s) priority list. Then I'm going to start connecting all of the rooms into one big continuous overworld, and start putting things into their proper place.


    In other words, things are moving smoothly. Slowly, but surely. I have final exam stuff for the next month or so, so expect progress to be moving at about the rate it is now and slightly slower until mid December. At which point I'll be able to put more time into this and speed things along more quickly. But I'll definitely keep working on this through the next few weeks of course.

    slash000 on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    You know, you should make the "thin walls" a magic barrier of some sort maybe a crystal ball on the top and bottom wall and some kind of energy flowing between them. That way when you have the dot, you can see the barrier sputter giving the hint you can walk though it.

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • unknownsome1unknownsome1 Registered User
    edited November 2008
    I've heard some good things about the game Adventure and this remake looks cool so I'm looking forward to the finished project. I sadly don't have any ideas right now but best of luck to you slash000.

    unknownsome1 on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    halkun wrote: »
    You know, you should make the "thin walls" a magic barrier of some sort maybe a crystal ball on the top and bottom wall and some kind of energy flowing between them. That way when you have the dot, you can see the barrier sputter giving the hint you can walk though it.

    Here's a question. Does the dot allow you only to walk through the right barrier, leading to the Easter Egg room, or can you walk through the leftmost barrier too?


    I haven't really put too much thought on what to make the "thin walls," but a magic barrier is as good as any. And might actually imply to people that it can be passed through with the right item. I wonder what to make the dot? Maybe make it a little hand-held crystal ball, so that when you acquire it, you might be able to figure out to use it on the magical barrier(s). I think that's what I"ll do.


    I've heard some good things about the game Adventure and this remake looks cool so I'm looking forward to the finished project. I sadly don't have any ideas right now but best of luck to you slash000.

    Thanks, I appreciate it. When I'm done you'll have the opportunity to experience Adventure, though, so I hope you're able to try it out once I finally finish!

    slash000 on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The dot is invisible. Do not make a sprite for it. That's the whole point. You just see him pick something up, and when you push the button he puts it down. When you have the dot, and another item in the room left of the name screen, the wall will flash on and off and will signal that you can go through.

    It's an Easter Egg, it's not supposed to be a goal.

    How the dot works in the game

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Khavall wrote: »
    My view on scoring for multimedia is that the amount, style, all that, should depend on the reason for the scoring.

    With this sort of retro redesign from a 2600 game I personally would think that the scoring should be retro-ish in terms of general structure, but with the modern technological aspects, and when I think old games and music I think constant scoring.

    Personally, were I to do a score for something like this I think my scoring would be retro in terms of melody and harmonic structure, but something orchestrated with modernistic electronic instruments, possibly some that are slightly below the cutting edge, giving an overall aesthetic of modern technology and aesthetics being used as a look at the past. Almost a postmodernistic pastiche of the Atari 2600. And it would also be constant.

    They aren't exactly making the game 'modern', though. I'd suggest something more 16-bitish, to go along better with the graphics.

    jothki on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    More info about the game mechanics....

    * Yorgle, the yellow dragon: He is afraid of the golden key and will run away from it. He guards the chalice when he can find it; otherwise he wanders around or helps the other dragons guard their possessions.
    * Grundle, the green dragon: He guards the magnet, the bridge, the black key, and the chalice.
    * Rhindle, the red dragon: He is the fastest of the three and the most aggressive. He guards the white key and chalice.

    A dragon can be "killed" by touching it with the sword. If the console's right difficulty switch is in the "A" position, the dragons will run away when they see the sword.

    When a dragon touches the player, it will "strike" (remaining motionless for a moment with its mouth open, waiting for a shorter time if the console's left difficulty switch is in the "A" position) and then "swallow" the player, who becomes trapped in the dragon's belly. While the dragon's mouth is opened, it cannot be killed.

    A black bat flies around randomly, occasionally picking up or dropping objects (including live or dead dragons). The bat can steal the player's sword and give him a live dragon in return, or vice-versa. The player can catch the bat and carry it around. The bat continues to fly even after the player has been killed, and occasionally the bat will pick up the dragon whose stomach contains the player, giving the player a whirlwind tour of the Adventure universe. The player can trap the bat inside a castle; this works best with the gold castle, since it has only one room and (provided the player has emptied it beforehand) the bat will, if it is flying upwards (straight up or diagonally up-right or up-left), fly around endlessly in the room and will not leave the castle. If the player enters with another item, the bat will change direction to grab the new item and usually end up leaving the castle. The bat's name was intended to be Knubberrub, but that name never made it into the game.

    There are three different games available via the Game Select switch:

    * Game 1 is a simplified version of the game and does not have the red dragon, the bat, the catacombs, the white castle, or the maze inside the black castle.
    * Game 2 is the full version, having all the features described. The location of the objects at the start of a new game is always the same and because of this known initial state, this is the easiest game to use to find the Easter egg.
    * Game 3 is just like Game 2, however the initial locations of the objects are pseudo-randomized, providing a different game each time. Because of this, the game could be easier or harder to solve (occasionally impossible, thanks to a bug in the item-placement routine that sometimes locks the gold key inside the gold castle). Due to the unpredictable placement of the items, it is more difficult to secure the bat and locate the items needed to find the Easter egg (though the location of the dot is consistent).

    When a player is eaten by a dragon, he does not necessarily have to start over. Hitting the "Game Reset" switch resurrects the player back at the gold castle and resurrects any killed dragons, however, the objects all remain where they were at the time of the player's death. This could be thought of as one of the earliest usages of the "continue game" feature, which is now prevalent in most video games. Hitting "Game Select" after death returns the game to the game select screen and an entirely new game can be played.

    Inside the black castle catacombs (on difficulty level 2 or 3), embedded in the south wall of a sealed chamber (accessible only with the bridge), is an "invisible" 1-pixel object referred to as the grey dot. One must "bounce" the player cursor along the bottom wall to "grab" the dot. The dot is not actually invisible, but simply the same color as the wall and is easily seen when placed in a catacombs passage or over a normal wall. The dot is not attracted to the magnet, unlike most other objects in Adventure.

    Bringing this dot to the east end of the corridor below the golden castle while other differently-colored objects are present causes the wall object to also become 'invisible', allowing the player to pass into a room displaying the words "Created by Warren Robinett."

    Additionally, this could create a problem for the player. If the bat happened to steal one of the items necessary to cause the wall to become invisible (and drop a dragon which would wander off, for example) the player would become trapped in the wall unless the bat happened by again with an item that would cause the wall to re-open.

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    That's some cool info. Definitely sheds more light on this.

    I guess I could make the dot a 1-pixel 'item'. Might as well.

    slash000 on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The dot is absolutely invisible and embedded in a wall when you "find" it. This is because the dot is gray, which happens to be the same color as the wall it's embedded in in the catacombs, and the same color as the ground outside.

    It should be invisible, or at least very very hard to see. (Lightly transparent)

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Hm.. OK. Well making an invisible item should just about be the easiest thing ever :P

    slash000 on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    OK, halkun, question:


    I've got the code for the Magnet's priority list working.

    So now I just want to clarify the list before I finalize it:

    OBJECT_YELLOWKEY, // Yellow Key
    OBJECT_WHITEKEY, // White Key
    OBJECT_BLACKKEY, // Black Key
    OBJECT_SWORD, // Sword
    OBJECT_BRIDGE, // Bridge
    OBJECT_CHALISE, // Challise


    This means that if, say, the Yellow and Black key are in the same room, the Magnet will attract the Yellow key only and the black key will stay there? Because Yellow Key is higher on the priority list?


    edit: I'm pretty sure I have this accurate. And if it's accurate, I just finished coding it. So that bit is done. Magnet code = complete.

    slash000 on
  • Shoegaze99Shoegaze99 Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Looking good, guys. Glad to see this still moving along.

    Shoegaze99 on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yup the Challise is the biggest pain in the ass to get.

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    halkun wrote: »
    Yup the Challise is the biggest pain in the ass to get.

    Excellent. Well then all of my coding for the Magnet is done.

    Also I finally got around to and animated the torches on the Yellow Castle. Just got tired of testing my code and seeing those damn motionless flames. :P

    slash000 on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yellow Dragon and all of its various nuances are (essentially) done. Now I'm working on the Green Dragon.

    I've decided that, incidentally, it'll be easier to construct the Level 1 first, and then test that out and straighten out its kinks, and then once that's done, take everything from Level 1 and build upon it to create Levels 2 and 3. Rather than building Level 2 and cutting stuff to make Level 1.

    slash000 on
  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I just noticed this, which is a great project.


    Good stuff. :^:

    Brainiac 8 on
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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Allright, so I tried one overworld going with the "Final Fantasy VI" general soundscape, and it was horribly sloppy and was just all over the place.

    So I decided to try to reference the darker, more minimalistic Chrono Trigger side of the old scores for this one, and came up with a general idea. It's still a little ham-fisted and short for a loooping "general travel music" thing, but it gives a basic idea of what I was going for.

    Khavall on
  • ImpersonatorImpersonator Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I liked the music but since Ive never heard the original's soundtrack...

    Impersonator on
    Bioptic wrote: »
    Lemmings was pro-Communist propeganda. All are created equal, sorted into specific jobs and roles that they will hold for the rest of their lives by a higher authority, and must sacrifice continuously for the good of the group. Success is measured by meeting quotas and nothing else. Also, nuclear holocaust.
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I haven't either. I tried getting some samples but I couldn't for the life of me find any.


    But video game music in general didn't actually become like, music until 8-bit anyways. Before then it was pretty weak, and if I took that as inspiration it would be just awful.

    Khavall on
  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Slash, are you going to let us try this before you release it?

    Capt Howdy on
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  • yurnamehereyurnamehere Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    There was no music in the original. There were a total of six sound effects: Grabbing an object, dropping an object, the dragon roar, getting eaten, killing a dragon, and the "victory" sound when you bring the chalice inside the golden castle.

    yurnamehere on
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    There was no music in the original. There were a total of six sound effects: Grabbing an object, dropping an object, the dragon roar, getting eaten, killing a dragon, and the "victory" sound when you bring the chalice inside the golden castle.

    Whoooo no original soundscape to be faithful too.


    Which is good if slash approves of the darker tone I've struck since there's no way a 2600 game would be that nasty musically. I don't think video games invented minor chords until 93.

    Khavall on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    There are actually several "motifs" that I created that slash implemented. The gold castle, the ice (white) castle, and the black castle. You can create different music for each "zone". I like the beginning of the song, it sounded cold and icy, so that part could just be brought out for the ice castle and surrounding areas. the darken tone can be near the black castle. and a brighter them near the gold one.

    Hey slash, can you stitch together a big overworld map? so we can see what it looks like compared to the old one?

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The brighter tone in that piece was purely accidental. I have all strings giving a minor theme and the piano is providing a minor theme, but because of my personal love of minor 7ths and 9ths when the bass seems understated due to the orchestration in the higher registers it gave me a happier sound than I wanted just because people in general like to hear happy music. Stupid personal characteristic chord structure.


    Either way, that sort of thing is really useful, are the thematic environment cross-area, or is each area a general thematic environment to its old one?

    Khavall on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I don't know, here is the original map of level 1 and here is a map of level 2 and 3.

    in level one there is only one maze, which is the blue one. The blue maze is a wharf with the blue "walls" being water.


    In level 2/3, the maze behind the black castle is a "blind" maze (You only see what is immediately around you). That is a black dungeon in the updated graphics. The blue maze is still a wharf with the blue "walls" being water. The orange maze below the yellow castle is now a "blind" haunted forest, and I don't recall what the maze is above the white caste (ice maze... I think?) Now that I look at it it could of been lava, but that defeats the purpose of the ice castle.

    Interestingly enough, the purple room under the easter egg screen is the "number room" that you use to select the level.

    If we can see the new map, it might help you determine what motifs can go where. (I haven't seen it yet)

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • SeeksSeeks Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Khavall, I gotta say, that little song was pretty bitchin'. Captures the feel of 16-bit RPGs perfectly for me, and it's very pretty.

    Seeks on
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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yeah the updated maps'll help. The way I see it there are a few things I could think of doing with the score depending.

    If in one "area" has multiple conditions then what I think would be coolest, would be to do something where the orchestration and feel of a particular area-motif are swapped up while the motif itself continues. Obviously there's already quite a bit of genre orchestration techniques to different feels, Ice uses high percussion and thinner sounds, Heat uses dense brass, Forests use organic instruments, things like that, which would be easy to craft around various motifs once I create them, for the overall areas. That sort of thing is the easy, plug+chug part though, crafting the motifs themselves and making the music so it's varied enough that it doesn't get boring on the 90,000,000th loop is the hard part.

    P.S.: Thanks seeks. Chrono Trigger is what started me into music more seriously, so it's fun every once in a while to look back and play with that sort of sound.

    Khavall on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    As it's been pointed out, the original game had no soundtrack! :D

    The closest thing the original had to music was a "bloopity bloopity bloopity bloopity bloop!" once you finished a Quest.



    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    Slash, are you going to let us try this before you release it?

    I don't plan on releasing it until I have the game essentially complete and bug tested as well as I can do so. I don't really want to release it if it's only partly finished. But what I will do, though, is I'll be posting new videos and screenshots as regularly as I can.



    Khavall wrote: »
    Whoooo no original soundscape to be faithful too.

    Which is good if slash approves of the darker tone I've struck since there's no way a 2600 game would be that nasty musically. I don't think video games invented minor chords until 93.
    halkun wrote: »
    There are actually several "motifs" that I created that slash implemented. The gold castle, the ice (white) castle, and the black castle. You can create different music for each "zone". I like the beginning of the song, it sounded cold and icy, so that part could just be brought out for the ice castle and surrounding areas. the darken tone can be near the black castle. and a brighter them near the gold one.

    Pretty much. Each area has a motif, and so as long as the music is good (which that linked-to file was really good) fits with the theme, it'll be good with me.

    What I'll need to do for you, Khavall, is probably send you a 'beta' of this game as well as an overworld map so you can see each area and how it looks and such, to get a more clear idea of how to make the music.





    Hey slash, can you stitch together a big overworld map? so we can see what it looks like compared to the old one?

    Maybe.. part of the fun of the game is the exploration though! Might not want to spoil it too much... so maybe..

    slash000 on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Khavall wrote: »
    Yeah the updated maps'll help. The way I see it there are a few things I could think of doing with the score depending.

    If in one "area" has multiple conditions then what I think would be coolest, would be to do something where the orchestration and feel of a particular area-motif are swapped up while the motif itself continues. Obviously there's already quite a bit of genre orchestration techniques to different feels, Ice uses high percussion and thinner sounds, Heat uses dense brass, Forests use organic instruments, things like that, which would be easy to craft around various motifs once I create them, for the overall areas. That sort of thing is the easy, plug+chug part though, crafting the motifs themselves and making the music so it's varied enough that it doesn't get boring on the 90,000,000th loop is the hard part.


    OK, definitely gotta send you the stuff. I'll stitch together an overworld with the new graphics, and once I get more of the code done I'll send you a Beta ASAP. I like your music so far, it's awesome, and so I think sending you the stuff I have will help you target the themes more easily.


    Khavall wrote: »
    Either way, that sort of thing is really useful, are the thematic environment cross-area, or is each area a general thematic environment to its old one?

    Each area is pretty distinct, and so I'll send you a whole overworld as well as a map pointing out each are distinctly, although you can tell pretty easily by how it looks.


    So I'll get to doing that.

    slash000 on
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Awesome, yeah, whenever. I'm completely off the entire week, so I'll have time to play around with things for a while. And then I only have one more recital and one more performance through the semester, so I'll have plenty of free time for the next month or so.

    Khavall on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    OK cool. I'll be a bit busy this weekend but I'll post here and also PM you probably tomorrow about this and also to send you this stuff.

    slash000 on
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    slash000 wrote: »
    halkun wrote: »
    Hey slash, can you stitch together a big overworld map? so we can see what it looks like compared to the old one?

    Maybe.. part of the fun of the game is the exploration though! Might not want to spoil it too much... so maybe..

    In that case can *I* see the overworld map. :P

    halkun on
    dA03mgx.png
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    So, delphinus offered to help with sound effects, and so we're trying to come up with an idea for the sounds effects in-game...

    Should they be completely retro 16bit sounds, like those synthed sounds coming from a SNES or Genesis, or should they be more modern sound files?

    There really aren't many sound effects in this game in general. Dragon roar, dragon death, item pick/putdown, gates open/closing, and general ambient sounds for each area, and finally menu/hud sound effects. That's it, I believe.

    slash000 on
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    'Aights, I got everything, I've started conceptualizing it, next week-ish I'll start cranking out some actual scores.

    Khavall on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Khavall wrote: »
    'Aights, I got everything, I've started conceptualizing it, next week-ish I'll start cranking out some actual scores.

    Sweet deal.

    Post another concept/sample of the next thing you do so we can check it out and see how it fits with the theme of the area and the theme of the overall game

    slash000 on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    update:

    Fucking dragons. I had finished coding the Yellow and Green dragons. But then I found a horrible glitch in my code for the dragons, so I had to scrap all of the dragon code and start over. I just finished coding these dragons from scratch again, and now they work and there are no more issues with respect to them.

    Now for the Red dragon.

    slash000 on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Q: How much faster is the Red Dragon than the Yellow and Green?


    Edit: I just toyed with the original game. It appears that the Red Dragon moves at a speed equivalent to the Player. That's fucking fast. Shit. Best not run into Red Dragon unless you have the damn Sword.


    edit2: Holy shit the Red Dragon's so fast it's practically unfair. Oh well, code it like I see it!



    edit3: Can someone confirm for me that Red Dragon moves about approximately equal to the Player's speed?

    slash000 on
  • yurnamehereyurnamehere Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    slash000 wrote: »
    Q: How much faster is the Red Dragon than the Yellow and Green?


    Edit: I just toyed with the original game. It appears that the Red Dragon moves at a speed equivalent to the Player. That's fucking fast. Shit. Best not run into Red Dragon unless you have the damn Sword.


    edit2: Holy shit the Red Dragon's so fast it's practically unfair. Oh well, code it like I see it!



    edit3: Can someone confirm for me that Red Dragon moves about approximately equal to the Player's speed?

    The red dragon moves exactly equal to the player's speed.

    Also, the original did not have a sound for the castle gates opening and closing.

    yurnamehere on
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